[Varun]

Yoro - Licha - New CB

Is the way forward. Someone like branthwaite will be great in that LCB role while Licha's excellent passing between the lines and lack of pace are both more suited to the central role. A fit Shaw would let us do this now itself but he's been terribly unlucky.

 

[gajender]

I really think we should try him in the central position and play Maz or Maguire at LCB.

You simply cant hide him unfortunately , his lack of physicality and Limitations just cant be wished away .

 

[Fortitude]

Yoro - Licha - New CB

Is the way forward. Someone like branthwaite will be great in that LCB role while Licha's excellent passing between the lines and lack of pace are both more suited to the central role. A fit Shaw would let us do this now itself but he's been terribly unlucky.

The Martinez who came here and looked the part with his reading of the game and timing of his actions, I'd agree with as the guy in the middle, but since his injury, he is antsy and erratic with his actions and reading of play to the point I think he's our most erratic starter when it comes to composure. The CB in the middle needs to exude calm and martial the others whilst making shrewd decisions to keep the backline optimally bound.

He's lost athleticism, and he plays like he knows it, which is a real concern.

In short: is this guy someone that can still be trusted with so much responsibility, or will he completely piss the bed and have us flapping back there even more than we already do?

 

[devilish]

The Martinez who came here and looked the part with his reading of the game and timing of his actions, I'd agree with as the guy in the middle, but since his injury, he is antsy and erratic with his actions and reading of play to the point I think he's our most erratic starter when it comes to composure. The CB in the middle needs to exude calm and martial the others whilst making shrewd decisions to keep the backline optimally bound.

He's lost athleticism, and he plays like he knows it, which is a real concern.

In short: is this guy someone that can still be trusted with so much responsibility, or will he completely piss the bed and have us flapping back there even more than we already do?

Or maybe we do what most efficient clubs do and we try to sell him before anyone notices that he's broken

 

[Fortitude]

Or maybe we do what most efficient clubs do and we try to sell him before anyone notices that he's broken

We have a season to get through, which is the pressing matter until the summer. I do think he's playing for his future, especially so as his profile is not a good fit for an Amorim CB in the first place.

 

[devilish]

We have a season to get through, which is the pressing matter until the summer. I do think he's playing for his future, especially so as his profile is not a good fit for an Amorim CB in the first place.

Do we? Because if we can't win the likes of Forest, Ipswich and West Ham then I very much doubt that we can do better against better opposition. But even if its not the case and we might rescue something from this season then I do wonder if having a tiny CB who think its a good idea for him to mark a 6ft5 opponent in a corner or to stare as the ball goes into the net will help us very much. The guy is playing erratic, he's being targeted as the weak link in our defense and quite frankly its for good reason. I'd love to know who was the genius who gave the thumbs up of us sanctioning tbe signing of a 5ft something as CB in a league were physicality and height is the frigging norm.

When we were on top we were lethal. We had top top players like Ruud, Beckham and Ince sold in their prime because we thought that they could hurt the environment they are in. Then we became complacent and sentimental. Players were kept way past their expiry date, injury prone players were transformed from a problem to a martyr, long term contracts were given to players based on a couple of months of good performance, and in the end (as happened to Bruno last summer) there wasn't even a need for a player to do well for a couple of months to get that contract. He just had to threaten to move to Saudi despite him still tied to a long contract and voila we were begging on our knees for him to sign.

January is a seller's market which means that anyone who needs a CB will probably be willing to close an eye or two for him. I'd say if we can find a buyer now whose stupid enough to give us good money for him then lets sell. Let play youths or if needs be we get someone on loan. The season is fecked either way. Let's exploit the situation and let's sell him for a decent fee before everyone notices that the butcher is butchered. We will need the money next season as we're running dangerously close to FFP.

 

[Red_toad]

I really think we should try him in the central position and play Maz or Maguire at LCB.

Simply wouldn’t work, not mobile, physical or aerially dominant enough to play there. He’s been poor all season and gotten a pass from many fans for how good he was when he first arrived.

 

[ScholesBrain]

two of the 3 goals were down on his laziness/lapse of concentration

 

[john2211]

Argentinas best player imo. Had an incredible block in extra time

 

[Lay]

Argentinas best player imo. Had an incredible block in extra time

So good that he doesn't start

 

[Sylar]

I can't get over that 3rd goal... Can't recall a defender so nonchalantly watch the ball go into the net

I'm still baffled by it. What was he doing just running to the goal line and watching it go in.

 

[DWelbz19]

£58 million well spent. Daley Blind was better at CB than Martinez is proving to be.

Smalling + Blind remains our best CB pairing post SAF. Varane best individual player. Martinez probably falls mid tier in a bracket similar to Maguire. Lindelof dead last

 

[Hoboman]

Never was the fastest, but has lost more pace and aggression after injuries.
You can't have both slow and small CB, especially in 3 CB system.
Hope he can recover, but wouldn't be against selling at the right price.

 

[Lee565]

He's no Daley blind who's time here was weirdly undervalued by our fans.

Aside from good passing now and then, I don't see any real positives with him, he probably would be a good defensive left back amd is probably why arsenal were interested in him but he is too exposed in central defence, especially on the left hand side where you need pace

 

[Andycoleno9]

I said last year (and was called out) that he is our most overrated player/signing. When you look at his career so far in United (two and a half seasons).
1st season: was very good in pair with Varane (but still had a lot of dodgy games) until April when he got injured and missed crucial games in EL and FA cup.
2nd season; he missed basically whole season.
3rd season; probably our worst defender so far.

And with new system his two flaws will be exposed; pace and one on one defending. I am not so sure that he will keep his place in best 11 with Maz obviously being Amorim's type of defender.

 

[Idxomer]

His defending has been very dodgy but yesterday he was the defender out of the trio bringing the ball from the back effectively.

 

[Castia]

No idea whats happened but he’s been fecking crap all season

He’s not even got that bite about him anymore he looks lost

 

[Fobal]

Yes Licha has a knack to save goals like the third one, this time he didn't, but that goal has Onana's signature all over it, a keeper must go for that ball to not even allow Yoro being owned and later his reaction was basicly NOTHING again.

Even in the second, with Bruno's bad pass, that shot should not be a goal, Onana's just fell, his posture was bizarre. Later what he did with another bad pass and the last minutes of the game, I dunno what happened to him, it was so ridiculous that even looked he sold his arse to some bet.

The one real bad thing from Licha's last game, it's how he was owned in the first goal, there will be times that his height would hurt him, that was particular nasty how he got owned.

And no, he is not being the worst defender at all.

What I do noticed, it's that he looks frustrated, with his own injuries, with his mates, with himself when he just doesn't do the last miracle save and such...United right looks as a whole like Chelsea last year, a mess with lots of kids and new players.

At the beggining he encouraged everyone, he put himself on the line, nowadays he looks almost like tired of all the shyte around him, everytime he puts a through ball, they do not take advantage at all, they loose it instantly.
It's all over again in terms of understanding who goes, who stays, how to solve the constant lack of ball retaining in the middle, etc...for instance he clicked instantly with Varane the few times the French was not injured, becuase even in the worst times, both get what has to be done and how to play to each other strenghts, yesterday watching Harry doing his "I'm back I know what to do" everytime he asked for the ball fast, was painful to watch.

You are actually going after the only defender that knows bettter than the mids how to retain the ball, where to try to hurt, he certainly looks tired and will have to show the same spirit and even anger if necessary, because right now there is a bunch of old lads with their classic habits and a lot of new guys that are just trying to settle with a new coach and he is not helping like he can, but certainly not the one to be primarly blame.

 

[dogwithabone]

I’d sell him. Fans are falling for this image he portrays - the butcher, hard man image. It’s not working. He needs to get back to the basics of defending at a new club, stop playing up to the fans and what they expect in terms of commitment, and rediscover himself. He’s forgotten all the fundamentals of defending - show him how someone like Terry harnessed aggression with brilliant positional sense and a very effective simplicity to his game.

 

[RedC]

I can't say that I'm a tactical genius, but it seems like he has a serious problem with getting out on a wide player, even though the whole point of 3 CBs is that one of them can go and do that. He just stays infield and allows them to progress and have momentum by the time they get near to him, in a much more dangerous area than if he'd gone out initially.

 

[MadDogg]

Because Rojo was completely shite?

Licha is only mostly shite

Rojo was actually quite good when played in central defence before he did his cruciate. Was our best defender in 16/17. It was when he was played at fullback that he struggled.

Of course after his cruciate injury at the end of 16/17 he was basically terrible no matter where he played.

 

[Lentwood]

Think the fans have fallen for an image of a player they want Martinez to be. Forget about the nicknames and the squaring up to opponents, the fact is, he's far from a dominant presence in-game.

I watched the partnership develop between Rio and Vidic and at their peak, forwards would give up after 10mins, you'd see the life drain out of them as they were physically dominated and out-thought time and time again.

This doesn't happen with Martinez. Forwards feel they have a chance against him. He's slow, he's small, he's strong for his size...but that's it...he's not 'strong for a CB'. Herein lies the big problem...because he has to be at the top of his game to be a good CB, and when he's not at the top of his game, his physical limitations can be exploited.

Personally...if someone was willing to pay £40m+...I'd take the money and reinvest. Not because he's rubbish, because I'm sure he'll still have some very good games for the club...but because he's not the right profile in my opinion.

 

[ShinjiNinja26]

Manchester United, ruining careers since 2014.

 

[NotoriousISSY]

To keep it short and sweet I’m fed up of these pathetic defensive displays from him.

The hard man screwface routine when things go wrong just looks embarrassing and it’s effectively like being a man light on corners with him in the side at the moment.

I appreciate it’s a different system to what he’s used to, but he needs to up his game fast.

I’d be quite happy to see Maguire line up instead of him right now, as our left side is a huge problem and he plays a huge role in that.

 

[Baneofthegame]

In his first season he was so good at reading the game and being aggressive whilst still being in control, combined with his passing made him a great defender, currently I feel like he should be the central defender in the three who can step forward and break the lines.

Think Shaw would be starting in his place if he was fit, which obviously now is never.

 

[Bole Top]

he used to play DM, right? some of our midfielders are old, some of other defenders are on their way out. perhaps he's worth keeping as rotational utility player.

 

[Red the Bear]

In retrospect timber might have been the more prudent choice for this set up.

 

[fergiewherearethou]

I said last year (and was called out) that he is our most overrated player/signing. When you look at his career so far in United (two and a half seasons).
1st season: was very good in pair with Varane (but still had a lot of dodgy games) until April when he got injured and missed crucial games in EL and FA cup.
2nd season; he missed basically whole season.
3rd season; probably our worst defender so far.

And with new system his two flaws will be exposed; pace and one on one defending. I am not so sure that he will keep his place in best 11 with Maz obviously being Amorim's type of defender.

Those injuries crippled him, he is not same after the first major one.

 

[Massimo Taibi]

Time to cut our losses, I’m afraid. Not good enough and, often, not fit enough. I just don’t think he’s cut out for English football. He’d probably do well in Italy but every league is different.

 

[ShinjiNinja26]

In retrospect timber might have been the more prudent choice for this set up.

It was a completely different system and manager when we were interested in Timber.

 

[Sarni]

He’s just like Onana, can be brilliant at times and has some qualities that are quite rare in a defender but ultimately he’s just completely unreliable and will eventually cost you points with his erratic performance. Having one of them is bad enough, having two is calling for a disaster almost every single game because you can guarantee something will happen out of the blue.

 

[Grande]

He’s just like Onana, can be brilliant at times and has some qualities that are quite rare in a defender but ultimately he’s just completely unreliable and will eventually cost you points with his erratic performance. Having one of them is bad enough, having two is calling for a disaster almost every single game because you can guarantee something will happen out of the blue.

I disagree on both players, and basically the overestimation that there is some hidden personality trait of ‘having erratic performances inside’. Fair enough, a few players in history have shown astonishing powers of adaptation and attention so has to make very few errors even in chaotic circumstances, and a few seem always to have a concentration lapse in every game even when things are functioning well and aare predictable. This is highly unusual, and describes neither Onana nor Martinez well. Quite the opposite, Onana has been one of the PL’s most consistent and least blunder-prone keepers week in week out now for almost a year, and Martinez for Ajax and for Man Utd his first injury free season was almost the epitome of consistency on a high level. Also when given the opportunity ahead of Otamendi/Romero for Argentina.

Last sundays blunders where not the diaplay of some characteristic and unusual personality trait, they were examples of what happens often to players every now and then (shit), and particularily during changes in their roles, the roles in their environment or when overloaded or put in marginal situations.

 

[VictoriaRed]

He’s no Canavaro, that’s for sure!

 

[Camilo]

I'm a big fan of his, but this might be the wrong team for him right now.

Shaw would be an excellent left sided centre back, if he ever gets fit again.

 

[GueRed]

Gets a 5/10 for the season so far. Not good enough.

Maybe Amorim should try him in the middle of the back three?
At least try to get him on the ball more.
His passing ability is by far his biggest strength.
ATM when he's on the left side of a back three his options for the pass is a lot more limited

 

[Blood Mage]

So poor this season, it's a shame as he was becoming such a cult hero. That injury took a lot out of him plus he misses having Varane next to him.

 

[Ekeke]

I really think we should try him in the central position and play Maz or Maguire at LCB.

It would have to be Maguire. Our central CB is usually all that stands in the way between us and conceeding from every set piece. Whether its Maguire or de Ligt, we need at least 1 of them for those situations. Lisandro cant do it

And Maguire pulling wide to deal with an attacker with pace... He might get by but thats clearly going to be a problem in the end

Lisandro just needs to focus, he had a good run of games until Forest. All of our CBs have had problems but he was doing a bit better than the others. Now he needs to get back to that

 

[Redasaredthing]

Gets a 5/10 for the season so far. Not good enough.

The unfortunate thing is that a score of 5/10 would flatter a number of our players.

That past suggested open heart surgery is required.

The club needs better and braver management.

 

[ROFLUTION]

It’s mentally he’s weaker this year.

Just less focused it seems. Has all the capabilities to be one of the best imo.

 

[thegregster]

It would have to be Maguire. Our central CB is all that stands in the way between us and conceeding from every set piece. Whether its Maguire or de Ligt, we need at least 1 of them for those situations. Lisandro cant do it

And Maguire pulling wide to deal with an attacker with pace... He might get by but thats clearly going to be a problem in the end

Lisandro just needs to focus, he had a good run of games until Forest. All of our CBs have had problems but he was doing a bit better than the others. Now he needs to get back to that

But they can switch for set-pieces? Same for when the rare occasions when the opposition has a tall CF.

Once we play 2 CBs who are tall we are at no disadvantage.