Ruben Amorim - Manchester United Head Coach

[Shark]

We won 15 home games with ETH.
We went away unbeaten by Ole.

We used to win game regularly.

Amorim has not won 2 consecutive league games since November. You dont new players to win 2 consecutive league games.

Yesterday was second game we scored in first half since 1 December 2024. You don't need new players to score in first half.

Our win since Etihad, we have beaten bottom half teams except Fulham.

The form is undoubtedly worrying and unacceptable, you can be supportive of Amorim and also admit that, I think.

 

[GaryLifo]

The glass half full view of him having had this horrible half season to bed in is that he's had plenty of time to figure out which players he can take forward and which ones he can't.

If he'd not joined until summer then we'd have had fresh starts for everyone, Rashford, Sancho, Hojlund, Lindelof, Eriksen etc and we'd have wasted the first half of next season with those players being given game time.

Yesterday for me was a first half in which we matched the intensity of Newcastle and went in deservedly level at half time. Second half we didn't match them and paid the price for that. Also, once it went 3-1 the team knew it was done and went into preservation for Thursday mode.

 

[Big Ben Foster]

This is an excellent post. A lot of similar sentiments were expressed when ETH was in charge, that changing the manager was the solution to all of our problems.

Unfortunately we have a squad full of unathletic players who aren't particularly good at football either, with a few notable exceptions that have been run into the ground or injured. There isn't a manager on the planet that's going to do much with such a poorly assembled squad, so even if Amorim ends up not being the man to take us forward (which is entirely possible), we're a few transfer windows away from having the kind of squad that can achieve success, no matter who the manager is.

No, almost nobody said that, that's just a straw man that kept getting repeated by ETH's defenders to absolve their man of all his failings.

The consensus amount the ETH Out crowd was that he was one of many very big problems that needed to be addressed.

 

[Shark]

By the way, this is what prioritising the Europa League looks like. It’s horrible, but look at the bigger picture.

As long as we actually win on Thursday and go through, of course.

 

[BorisManUtd]

Thank you for bringing this up.

So when we played so well at Anfield in 10 years, was it because of Players brilliance or Amorim brilliance.

If its Amorim brilliance then why doesn't he replicate it in most matches.
If it's Players brilliance then it means the notion that we have poor squad is wrong. Because a poor squad can't get 'best performance at Anfield in 10 years'.

It can not be when we play so well at Anfield it's Amorim brilliance but when we lose against Bournemouth and Wolves in 2 games before Anfield, it's we have poor squad.

Have you watched any of United’s performances at Anfield since 2015?

 

[Adz_99]

I think we'll learn a lot about Amorim in the remaining games this season. Most importantly whether or not he can grind out a winnable trophy.

But also I do think performances have improved slightly (yesterday not included) however that's coincided with a brutal run of fixtures. The remaining league fixtures are a real litmus test because there are plenty of "winnable" games there for a team that isn't completely and utterly shit.

 

[Superunknown]

As long as we actually win on Thursday and go through, of course.

And then it comes back to the question of how we're going to win the game. If we play like we did yesterday, we're not going to win. Massively concerned about where the goals are going to come from. Plus, you've also got the added factor of one of our defenders or whichever goalkeeper is playing making a blunder anyway, so we more than likely need to score 2 or 3 goals. There's a lot riding on this game.

 

[JPRouve]

No, almost nobody said that, that's just a straw man that kept getting repeated by ETH's defenders to absolve their man of all his failings.

The consensus amount the ETH Out crowd was that he was one of many very big problems that needed to be addressed.

And that some of the problems he caused largely by being supported for too long would be difficult to fully fix in the short term. Now the issue with Amorim is that there is very little indication that he he is a solution short, mid or long term. Overally I think that he has done a terrible job but there is one small positive that I will cling on, it is that we have improved in both transitions we aren't great but I would say that we are above average in that department. In more settled situations we are shamefully bad and I hope that he will show some improvements with a good preseason but I'm still not convinced that he is anything more than an average manager.

 

[Red00012]

I can't wait to get rid of this "system" and if it means binning Amorim then so be it

So bring back that 4-2-3-1 that got ETH sacked ?

 

[JPRouve]

So bring back that 4-2-3-1 that got ETH sacked ?

Or the 4231/4411 that SAF used with great success or a multitude of other managers. ETH didn't get sacked because he used a 4231 he got sacked due to implementing a range of instructions that made no sense.

 

[TsuWave]

Jesus fecking Christ, this isn’t “cult shit”. Obviously we’re worse, every woman and her cat can see that. I’m just tired of people pretending that the managers of Fulham and Brentford would do better. No they wouldn’t.

I mean, we’ll likely never know - but you’re posting matter of factly about it that they wouldn’t when the only real evidence available to us suggests otherwise - they are currently doing better than Amorim

 

[RedRocket9908]

Unfortunately we have a squad full of unathletic players who aren't particularly good at football either, with a few notable exceptions that have been run into the ground or injured. There isn't a manager on the planet that's going to do much with such a poorly assembled squad, so even if Amorim ends up not being the man to take us forward (which is entirely possible), we're a few transfer windows away from having the kind of squad that can achieve success, no matter who the manager is.

This is mostly the same squad that finished 3rd the season before last (I think De Gea is the only key player from that side thats no longer at the club) and finished 8th while winning the FA Cup last year so they are clearly much better than they are currently looking

 

[Garethw]

So when saying it's the worst it's been since Fergie it seems important to also mention that was already the case when Amorim took over. Otherwise it sounds like it's purely down to Amorim

That situation was already in place when he joined. He didn't take a top 6 team and suddenly have us down around 13th.

What we can say is overall we haven't improved since ETH left and Amorim joined.

He hasn’t improved us at all. Which is the most disappointing thing about his tenure. We look no better at all.

 

[Shark]

He hasn’t improved us at all. Which is the most disappointing thing about his tenure. We look no better at all.

That's not true though, we do look better and more organized. There are segments of play that I haven't seen us attempt for over a decade. Individual errors are killing us. Why is Victor Lindelof for example on the pitch for us in 2025? Not saying Ruben is completely blameless and I'm worried also, but you also have to look at the total shite he's still having to field.

 

[BorisManUtd]

We've had appaling GD ever since 21/22 season (except for 22/23 but even then it was far from impressive). Also number of goals scored in this period is low: 57 goals scored in 21/22, 58 goals scored in 22/23, 58 goals scored in 23/24. And 23/24 was when ten Hag went with this end to end basketball style so there wasn't a conservative approach or anything. It's clear we're poor in attack and have been for 4 years now.

This is mostly the same squad that finished 3rd the season before last (I think De Gea is the only key player from that side thats no longer at the club) and finished 8th while winning the FA Cup last year so they are clearly much better than they are currently looking

We should've finished 13th according to xG/xP last season. And forget xG stats, that was clear from performances. Obviously big amount of injuries and that's why ten Hag stayed longer but the whole approach left us incredibly exposed. Actually do think it improved to extent at the start of this season but couple of performances and results - like 3-0 defeats to Liverpool and Spurs (also 1-1 vs Twente was poor) were damning for ten Hag.

 

[Garethw]

He can get the team higher up the pitch. That's the one big thing he has some control over. Can only conclude being so deep is his decision.

If you're constantly recycling the ball in your own third mistakes will happen and get heavily punished.

Agreed. We are set up far too defensively.

 

[Posh Red]

This is mostly the same squad that finished 3rd the season before last (I think De Gea is the only key player from that side thats no longer at the club) and finished 8th while winning the FA Cup last year so they are clearly much better than they are currently looking

I don’t believe people say things like this and truly believe it.

Eriksen and Casemiro were the two main midfielders that season, and Rashford scored most of our goals.

 

[noelyman]

Leverkursen last season was a pure 3-4-3 side. Literally identical to how Amorim used it at Sporting. Atalanta last season and now is still pure 3-4-3. Conte with Chelsea was pure 3-4-3. Inter play a back 3 formation hence I include them even thought it's 3-5-2. All because the prevailing claim in here is two pronged: i) 3-4-3 is bullshit II) back 3 football doesn't work at elite level.



This is remarkable. We play a strict 3-4-3 with inside 10s. Just because one "feels"the players in the roles are not as attacking or as quality as they'd like. Doesn't flip the tactic to a back 5 or whatever other shape they can dream up. There is nothing more silly than pretending our system" is a back 5' by only registering our shape without the ball. As if there is ANY back 3 formation that defends with just a 3! Even 4-2-3-1's defends as 4-4-2/4-5-2 and attack as 3-2-5s. No one serious denotes the formations in those other shapes....

Even worse is the constant claim ."Amorim is overly defensive". Yet he literally uses what he has available. He'd like to have more than just Casemiro and Ugarte available to himself in center midfield right now. He'd love to have Amad
and Antony available all the time as a wing backs two. He'd love to have Rashford, Mount and Sancho fully available in attack to. Amad. But he can't can he? You think its by choice?

Tatically inflexible? You think he is a low block, counter attack, occasionally pressing manager? You think 'flexibility" is ONLY in changing shape?

Yesterday he for example played Ugarte and Eriksen together. Had Bruno, Garnacho and Zirkzee in attack. Away from home vs a Newcastle. Is that a defensive set up to you? How did THAT turn out? So much "for being defensive" ....and 'inflexible"

Some of you just won't admit the bleeding obvious. Namely that this squad is STILL closing its steep knowledge gap about the formation. Plus is inadequate personnel wise in key roles for the system to work without ANY reinforcements amidst a mid season football direction change. You'd rather reach for low hanging fruit like 'Its INEOS", "Its the players", "It the manager' strictly. Zero nuance. Zero accounting for mitigating circumstance.

Great post. People just see whatever fits the narrative they’ve already got set in their minds. I get that Amorim has made enough legitimate mistakes to be criticised for, without making up fictional stuff.

 

[pocco]

He hasn’t improved us at all. Which is the most disappointing thing about his tenure. We look no better at all.

I disagree. Until yesterday everyone was positive about performances. Even the pundits were saying we’ve improved since the start of the season during the half time break. A couple of individual blunders and it’s changed the perspective a lot.

Last season we were conceding 20 odd shots per game against every team. Even lower league teams. Is that still happening? We also had zero control over any game and often were dominated in possession. People were complaining about this, and how we tried to shit house wins by adopting underdog tactics with our billion pound team. The problem now is that we are miles better in possession, or at least capable of keeping it, but we’ve a load of players who aren’t suited to playing this way. Too many lapses in concentration or individual unforced errors, to ever be a good possession team. Along with attackers who have only ever looked good when given space to run into.

So for me we’ve improved defensively/structurally without much investment, and we are better at keeping the ball normally. In the last few weeks we’ve been saying we could/should have beat Forest who are top 4, same for Man City, we should have probably come away from the away leg of a QF European tie with at least a 2 goal lead. This is progress. But what has undone all of that? Individual errors and poor decision making or execution in attack mainly.

Last night we were soundly beat in the end, but we rotated a lot, after every fan and their dog was saying “play the youth, don’t care about the Newcastle game”, until we inevitably get beat and they can’t take it. Even then it was two huge errors which turned it into a bad loss. At half time we were level and Newcastle struggling to create. Read the thread at half time and the general opinion was that we were doing better than everyone thought we would with the team we had out. In the end it caught up with us after the two mistakes.

So there are signs of progress there, but the bedwetters like yourself have seized on the first bad loss in a while to come back out of the woodwork and try to recreate the narrative. I’m not saying we were playing amazing, but there was clearly progress in the last couple of months.

Oh and let’s not forget that we loaned out one of the few goalscorers we had in the squad in Rashford, and loaned out our most expensive player (I know it’s not worth a lot, but shows where we are at in terms of our squad) in Antony. There was always a huge risk in doing this for obvious reasons.

 

[redshaw]

This is mostly the same squad that finished 3rd the season before last (I think De Gea is the only key player from that side thats no longer at the club) and finished 8th while winning the FA Cup last year so they are clearly much better than they are currently looking

Well not quite
Rashford isn't here and scored 30 goals that season
Luke Shaw played 30 games isn't here really now, was he player of the season as well.
Sancho got 6 goals in 21 appearances, not here
Antony, played a lot that season, not here
Varane not here now
Martinez injured, him and Varane had a good partnership
Martial got 6 goals in 11 Pl appearances which helps, no longer here but good goals per minutes

Players also regress with age Case Eriksen did play the most in midfield that season and the team were on a crest of a wave until Case suspensions. We got close to City and Arsenal at the top and fell away drastically without Rashfords goals and Case Martinez playing like warriors.

McTom not here
Fred not here

 

[#07]

He can get the team higher up the pitch. That's the one big thing he has some control over. Can only conclude being so deep is his decision.

If you're constantly recycling the ball in your own third mistakes will happen and get heavily punished.

Amorim could, conceivably, but given what the players have shown they're willing to try its hard to see how he could do this without big compromises.

Amorim's system depends on the third centre back being the spare man and stepping into midfield. That player is meant to take the ball and progress it. But our centre backs don't like having the ball to feet, they don't want to be on the half turn, they don't want to carry the ball, they don't want to pass through the lines. So what do we get? Five yard passes across the back line: 'You take it,' 'no, you take it.' They hide from the ball, they hide from the responsibility. Its sad to watch.

Then you get to the midfield. There's no Michael Carrick dropping in and picking up the ball to compensate from this cautiousness from the centre backs. We have Casemiro, good player, but not able to do the up and down work the way Amorim's system needs. Ugarte does the up and down work but can't pass. So now what happens? Bruno drops in and tries to advance the ball but when Bruno drops in we have one fewer attacking player and its like dropping a stone in water. There's a ripple effect in how many players we have in attacking positions.

What this system demands from the players we have means that we will end up being sucked backwards against any team of quality. I am not saying another system would be radically better and we'd suddenly be Brazil 1982 level entertainers. But, in part, the system is highlighting our weaknesses and stopping us from doing much different.

Now, despite my lack of belief in Amoirm, you can see a world in which things get better. Heaven looks decent with the ball to feet, Licha will eventually return, Shaw's fit again and that could have a huge impact on ball progression. Yoro will occassionally stretch his legs and carry the ball and he has good recovery pace. Mazraoui likewise. Maybe with a bit more confidence we'll start getting better progression out of the back. Add a couple of powerful ball carriers down the middle of the pitch to help link the play and you can see the possibility of a big change.

But even if that happens, for at least a couple of years, we'll only be a few injuries away from being unable to play football.

AND, for me, the big question is: What's the ceiling of that even if we get all the pieces? I hope to be proven wrong in my scepticism about the manager.

 

[silvercre]

This squad is certainly better than what we are seeing at the moment and there are other manager's out there that would have gotten them to win more than 6 of the last 21 matches and not had them getting outplayed at home for 80+ minutes by the worst Southampton side ever.

Where's your at least 20 goals 10 assists striker in this squad?

 

[Garethw]

2 league wins in the last two and half months - Ipswich and Leicester.

It’s not been good

Progress allegedly.

 

[The Hilton]

No, almost nobody said that, that's just a straw man that kept getting repeated by ETH's defenders to absolve their man of all his failings.

The consensus amount the ETH Out crowd was that he was one of many very big problems that needed to be addressed.

This is just rewriting history. You personally seemed to agree that he wasn't our only issue, but many were much more short sighted. Interestingly, this isn't your first post pretending that the more rabid members of the ETH out crowd never existed, it's a pattern that goes back a while. Presumably you feel it undermined the credibility of the stance, but it doesn't, ironically what does undermine credibility more is pretending the plethora of irrational posts never happened.

Loads of posters would point to De Zerbi, Ange, etc with comments like "look how quickly [insert manager name] has [insert team name] playing his style of football". What we needed was "coaching". It was frustrating how misguided those posts were, as evidenced by us bringing in one of the most promising coaches in Europe in Amorim and going backwards.

This is an issue because now we've got lots of posts with the same shallow thinking, a lot of folks need one big bogeyman to point to, under Amorim the system/formation has been a big target, now more folks are attacking the manager directly. But again as I've stated time and again, there isn't a manager in the world who will turn our squad of unathletic and not very talented players into world beaters. You were right that ETH wasn't the man to take us forward, it might be also that Amorim isn't (although I'd suggest it's too early to make that determination), but prime SAF wouldn't be getting much out of a United squad that's physically dominated by almost every team it comes up against.

 

[Gordon'sHill]

Amorim could, conceivably, but given what the players have shown they're willing to try its hard to see how he could do this without big compromises.

Amorim's system depends on the third centre back being the spare man and stepping into midfield. That player is meant to take the ball and progress it. But our centre backs don't like having the ball to feet, they don't want to be on the half turn, they don't want to carry the ball, they don't want to pass through the lines. So what do we get? Five yard passes across the back line: 'You take it,' 'no, you take it.' They hide from the ball, they hide from the responsibility. Its sad to watch.

Then you get to the midfield. There's no Michael Carrick dropping in and picking up the ball to compensate from this cautiousness from the centre backs. We have Casemiro, good player, but not able to do the up and down work the way Amorim's system needs. Ugarte does the up and down work but can't pass. So now what happens? Bruno drops in and tries to advance the ball but when Bruno drops in we have one fewer attacking player and its like dropping a stone in water. There's a ripple effect in how many players we have in attacking positions.

What this system demands from the players we have means that we will end up being sucked backwards against any team of quality. I am not saying another system would be radically better and we'd suddenly be Brazil 1982 level entertainers. But, in part, the system is highlighting our weaknesses and stopping us from doing much different.

Now, despite my lack of belief in Amoirm, you can see a world in which things get better. Heaven looks decent with the ball to feet, Licha will eventually return, Shaw's fit again and that could have a huge impact on ball progression. Yoro will occassionally stretch his legs and carry the ball and he has good recovery pace. Mazraoui likewise. Maybe with a bit more confidence we'll start getting better progression out of the back. Add a couple of powerful ball carriers down the middle of the pitch to help link the play and you can see the possibility of a big change.

But even if that happens, for at least a couple of years, we'll only be a few injuries away from being unable to play football.

AND, for me, the big question is: What's the ceiling of that even if we get all the pieces? I hope to be proven wrong in my scepticism about the manager.

This is an excellent post. The odd person saying the system isnt part of the problem, but it is. 3 at the back as the default tactic is rare amongst elite teams, its more common amongst challengers who are more reactive and dont dominate the ball. It's used on occasion by some managers but not all the time like Amorim. We don't have the players for this system, it will need another squad overhaul and what then if it doesnt work. Radcliffe and his team promised an end to this constant cycle, but Amorim is a really poor fit if you want a consistent style of play.

 

[kouroux]

So bring back that 4-2-3-1 that got ETH sacked ?

You know there are ways of playing football right ? Besides how ETH implemented it is what got him sacked, not the formation itself

 

[Red Indian Chief Torn Rubber]

You know there are ways of playing football right ? Besides how ETH implemented it is what got him sacked, not the formation itself

The point is this team struggled badly in the system since Solkjaers demise. Its never been remotely consistently good enough even up to ETH sacking since. Hence the desire to ditch 3-4-3 so quickly is quite baffling. Up there with moaning about being having self autonomy in a wilderness and desiring to be a decade plusSlave again back in Egypt......

 

[Carl]

Amorim would have known which players and squad he was taking over. He would have also been made aware there won't be significant changes to this squad for at least another two years.

And when he asked to come in at the end of the season he was told no..

 

[DJ Jeff]

My worry about the 3-4-3 is that we're going to turf out Garnacho and Mainoo for not fitting into any role in it and they're going to go elsewhere and be good, then Amorim will flop anyway and we'll sack him in October for a manager who goes back to playing a back 4.

 

[Posh Red]

My worry about the 3-4-3 is that we're going to turf out Garnacho and Mainoo for not fitting into any role in it and they're going to go elsewhere and be good, then Amorim will flop anyway and we'll sack him in October for a manager who goes back to playing a back 4.

I highly doubt that Mainoo will be sold. Garnacho could well be, but I won’t be losing any sleep over that, whatever the system.

 

[Red Indian Chief Torn Rubber]

I'm truly marveling at some fans declaring losing 4-1 to this Newcastle, with a rotated team "shocking". It's like they post match developed acute amesia about the season, this Newcastle United side and our own! There is little chance in a million years this current United side not at full strength and fitness, before this match were going to get anything less than a pasting by a 2 or 3 goal margin.

 

[Red Indian Chief Torn Rubber]

Ah so 3-4-3 is the intellectuals formation then

Rather its for very daring and brave managers. Not the ubiquitous copy cats up and down the sport. That is why its biggest user was the late Johan Cruyff. So this pretence that is some kinda back water, none elite, uber defensive formation is incredibly fallacious.

 

[RedRocket9908]

Where's your at least 20 goals 10 assists striker in this squad?

On loan at Villa

 

[Frank White]

I'm truly marveling at some fans declaring losing 4-1 to this Newcastle, with a rotated team "shocking". It's like they post match developed acute amesia about the season, this Newcastle United side and our own! There is little chance in a million years this current United side not at full strength and fitness, before this match were going to get anything less than a pasting by a 2 or 3 goal margin.

Is anyone doing that though? The result yesterday is meaningless but the 20 odd games prior where we've taken as many points or whatever it is, is the worrying part that people have every right to critique.

 

[Licha-Vidic]

Great post. People just see whatever fits the narrative they’ve already got set in their minds. I get that Amorim has made enough legitimate mistakes to be criticised for, without making up fictional stuff.

And you believe, yourself, you don't have a narrative that's fits your imagination.
Apparently, only others have narratives.

 

[TrivelaDeBruno]

On loan at Villa

Is a time machine on loan at Villa as well, cause the last time that player was seen was towards the end of the 22/23 season.

 

[thisisnottaken1]

Except, we can. We have to keep doing it until we get it right - Amorim isn’t the right one

Who is the right one then?

 

[Red Indian Chief Torn Rubber]

The formation under ETH wasn't the reason we struggled though it was the batshit style of play and a complete lack of midfield or structure that Ten Hag was determined to keep employing despite all evidence for the best part of 18 months telling him it would never work. With the same formation but a more sensible set-up I reckon this squad would have did a lot better in the league during Erik's last 18 months..

United has been playing 4-2-3-1 since Mourinho. In that time our squad of players have consistently failed to produce a high pressing, front foot, possesion controlling style of play. Only LVG since Fergie was on the road fans with the same kinda impatience for Amorim's short regime were all too happy to see the back of him. Even under a master at coaching pressing in Ragnick, little changed! The age old excuse we have always got from the ever unhappy crew is "it's just that manager"/standards have fallen'. Celebraton at a sacking and a manager replacement by the SAME clique of fans. Rinse and repeat!

At what point will they finally admit they havent a clue about what the problem is let alone what the solution can be? Because nothing they EVER recommend let alone their constant impatience works?

 

[acnumber9]

It seems like we all forgot about how Ferguson started and how he nearly got the sack, but in time, created the greatest United dynasty ever.

Might as well have kept Moyes then. After all any manager given time will be as good as Alex Ferguson.

 

[Bruno8]

As long as we don't have a good striker we will struggle to win games. So its difficult to see progress when the team is so unbalanced and lacking quality