It’s not zero gains. The gains will be realised in the summer when we can actually sell them. Without these loans, the chances of moving on Rashford, Antony and Sancho for were a hell of a lot less than they are now.
Ruben Amorim - Manchester United Head Coach | Thread locked during matches
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Nik (@Rood) and Imran (@Annihilate Now!) discuss United's fantastic win away against Athletic Club in the semi-final of the Europa League.
They also pick out the positives of United's 4-3 loss away at Brentford, and Nik reviews a day out at Old Trafford watching Manchester United Women qualify for the Champions League.
And for me, this is an indication that Amorim is not a good manager. If he was a good manager, he'd find a way to handle Rashford internally, instead of giving up in a month.
The easiest thing a manager can do (any manager at any job) is to fight against his own subordinates in order to assert his superiority. I have seen this outside football, and it is always an indication that the manager is not really good at managing.
For now it is zero gains. Actually, it is less than zero because we don't have attacking players that can score.
What you claim as "gains" is just a vague hope for the future. We have no idea what will happen in the summer. I am talking about what has already happened, not about what might happen in the future.
Why would Amorim sell out his own ideals to coddle a player who isn't giving 100% (nevermind his outside of football DM activities). The onus is on Rashford to exert maximum effort to earn his 300kpw wages, not Amorim's role to do it for him. The inmates don't run the asylum at United.
What ideals?
We do have an idea. It’s not a vague hope at all.
Are Rashford, Sancho and Antony more sellable now that they were when they left United on loan? That’s an absolute resounding yes.
After Rashford and McTominay left, even MEN has been struggling with getting leaks from the dressing room.
Oh yeah it's not all on Hojlund in the sense of blame. It's just a reality he is the worst first choice striker in the league and we're not going to make any leaps of progress within that context.
As much as some here want to suggest otherwise no manager including Amorim is stopping young players like Hojlund or Garnacho being inconsistent. As you say that's on the club that we didn't properly put experience into the team.
fecking hell, people using Rashford as a way to bash Amorim. 
I love Rashford, great guy, fecking shocking professional footballer. Lazy shite.
I love Rashford, great guy, fecking shocking professional footballer. Lazy shite.
He's no longer employed here so who knows.
fecking hell, people using Rashford as a way to bash Amorim.
I love Rashford, great guy, fecking shocking professional footballer. Lazy shite.
Desperate times.
If you think that’s the only metric we use for managers, life really is simple.
Sancet injured for Bilbao.
Just popping some news..might bring a cheer to some sad folks ...
Oops
Just popping some news..might bring a cheer to some sad folks ...
Oops
Nico Williams apparently played as a sub ?
Just making up stuff are we? Rashford performed decently well under all those managers, even saving their jobs in some cases. This massive effort to re-write what Rashford did for the club and paint him as some bad egg right from the start is disgusting. Pathetic.
Yup , subbed in at 65 minutes.
Those of you that can’t get your head around why Amorim wouldn’t want Osimhen might want to spend some time reading this Sporting fans analysis of his time there. An interesting read: (found on Twitter)
1 - Don't expect a miracle: This is the absolutely most important point of all, hence why I open with it. When Amorim took charge of Sporting he also started midway through the season (although much later on), and at the end of that season Sporting finished fourth, worse than the usual third at that time. Amorim needs months to implement his style of play (which I'll touch upon later on), and, just like Sporting at the time, Man Utd's team is not very compatible with it. With that said:
2 - Expect "big players" to leave: Amorim will most likely sell players that might have been huge assets to the team previously, but simply don't match his style and may even detract from it (more on that in a bit). If you look at the team Amorim inherited when he took charge of Sporting and the team with which he started his next season, you'll see what I mean
3 - Locker room management: Amorim has always made it a stipulation that the players he manages are positive influences on the locker room dynamics, getting rid of players that might be huge assets but otherwise damage the team in some way. As examples you have Marcus Acuña, which was one of the best players Sporting had at the time, but as he was extremely hot headed, and so was immediately sold on the first transfer market window under Amorim, and Islam Slimani, which returned to Sporting as a fan favorite and immediately started scoring goals, which our main striker wasn't doing. Slimani, however, started getting cocky, and was immediately pushed to the sidelines and left after only half a season.
4 - Tactics/formation: Expect a 3-4-3 every time, all the time. Amorim barely deviates from this formation, instead changing the players in the starting eleven depending on the characteristics he wants the team to display.
5 - Transfer policy: As previously stated, Amorim most likely won't even consider someone who could destabilize the team's backroom dynamics, and that means a lot of big, established players are unlikely to join as tensions could arise from that, and if Slimani's case shows anything is that Amorim would rather have a strong team union than individual stars. Due to this, expect Man Utd to sign more young and/or lesser known players, also likely for cheaper, that have large amounts of potential (this was the exact model that brought players like Gyökeres to Sporting).
6 - Youth academy: If Amorim can get any players from the youth academy, he definitely will. Strangely enough, Amorim is one of the few well known Portuguese managers that has this sort of youth academy policy, which is funny because almost every Portuguese manager follows it, they're just not well known.
7 - More than 11 players: If Amorim is given enough time at Man Utd, expect him to assemble a team where the players sitting on the bench are just as capable as the ones on the pitch, differing only in what aspects are stronger in their game.
1 - Don't expect a miracle: This is the absolutely most important point of all, hence why I open with it. When Amorim took charge of Sporting he also started midway through the season (although much later on), and at the end of that season Sporting finished fourth, worse than the usual third at that time. Amorim needs months to implement his style of play (which I'll touch upon later on), and, just like Sporting at the time, Man Utd's team is not very compatible with it. With that said:
2 - Expect "big players" to leave: Amorim will most likely sell players that might have been huge assets to the team previously, but simply don't match his style and may even detract from it (more on that in a bit). If you look at the team Amorim inherited when he took charge of Sporting and the team with which he started his next season, you'll see what I mean
3 - Locker room management: Amorim has always made it a stipulation that the players he manages are positive influences on the locker room dynamics, getting rid of players that might be huge assets but otherwise damage the team in some way. As examples you have Marcus Acuña, which was one of the best players Sporting had at the time, but as he was extremely hot headed, and so was immediately sold on the first transfer market window under Amorim, and Islam Slimani, which returned to Sporting as a fan favorite and immediately started scoring goals, which our main striker wasn't doing. Slimani, however, started getting cocky, and was immediately pushed to the sidelines and left after only half a season.
4 - Tactics/formation: Expect a 3-4-3 every time, all the time. Amorim barely deviates from this formation, instead changing the players in the starting eleven depending on the characteristics he wants the team to display.
5 - Transfer policy: As previously stated, Amorim most likely won't even consider someone who could destabilize the team's backroom dynamics, and that means a lot of big, established players are unlikely to join as tensions could arise from that, and if Slimani's case shows anything is that Amorim would rather have a strong team union than individual stars. Due to this, expect Man Utd to sign more young and/or lesser known players, also likely for cheaper, that have large amounts of potential (this was the exact model that brought players like Gyökeres to Sporting).
6 - Youth academy: If Amorim can get any players from the youth academy, he definitely will. Strangely enough, Amorim is one of the few well known Portuguese managers that has this sort of youth academy policy, which is funny because almost every Portuguese manager follows it, they're just not well known.
7 - More than 11 players: If Amorim is given enough time at Man Utd, expect him to assemble a team where the players sitting on the bench are just as capable as the ones on the pitch, differing only in what aspects are stronger in their game.
Its funny reports say he does want Osimhen, Delap is clearly a Wilcox driven move
Ornstein, who for better or worse is probably the most reliable of the lot, said we aren't after Osimhen.
Indeed as in the club not what the managers preference is. Delap is a Wilcox pick
Speaking of hot heads, Cunha isn't exactly one who avoids controversy given his two match bad for tangling with Ipswich security staff.
Huh? I think he can be blamed for making a bad decision to delay surgery to play in the Euros (although the club could presumably have put its foot down as well). However, he only had 5 league matches, mostly as sub, in the season before Ole’s sacking and he scored in two of them. It was under Rangnick that he really struggled to get going post injury at all.
Are we pretending Rashford gave feck all effort during his entire spell? Even for LVG and Ole or during his great Ten Hag season?
It’s pretty clear now with Rashford, that he’s a rather useless player when the chips are down, he simply can’t rise above it and his head drops to a ridiculous level.
Good player mind when he’s in a functioning team and system.
No need to pretend an academy lad has always treated the club with contempt, it’s not true.
Think Doracle just made a mockery of this post.
I think he's doing that already. That's why he's done ok at Villa despite being frozen out for months and is contributing to them having a fairly successful season. He'll probably have a decent level of interest from other clubs as well if he keeps it up.
I don't know why so many users here think Rashford gave up on football, i think it's just misguided bitterness about him "abandoning" the club, giving up on playing here. Or something like choosing not to "turn it on" while he was here. Very vague accusations.
Wow, I wish some of you could watch Rashford's performances from the last years on repeat. Even when he scored in games.
Even in his ETH purple patch.
I guess it's the case of "the longer he's gone the better he becomes".
Yes, he had good even great performances over the years. The main point is - he does it when he feels like it.
Rashford has shown laziness, selfishness and arrogance. And is always the first one to drop his head.
The further away from Manchester, the better for everyone involved.
Even in his ETH purple patch.
I guess it's the case of "the longer he's gone the better he becomes".
Yes, he had good even great performances over the years. The main point is - he does it when he feels like it.
Rashford has shown laziness, selfishness and arrogance. And is always the first one to drop his head.
The further away from Manchester, the better for everyone involved.
Amen. Good riddance I say.
Amorims supporters keep mentioning ETHs FA cup wins.
Every single United supporter would rather have 1 FA Cup vs 2 if you could exchange your table position, your team with ours and the bench with ours.
I would
Delap really isnt the answer, we need a proper goal scorer rather than someone who failed in the 2nd tier with 3 different clubs
In honesty if I had to chose between finishing 2nd this season with no trophies and finishing 17th this season but winning the Europa I would choose the latter.
That's completely fair enough, some fans will always choose winning a trophy above the league performance of a club that didn't doesn't win the title.
I'm not sure most players see it that way, though. As in, prospective players thinking of which club to join. I'm sure Bruno would treasure leading his club to major trophy, as would any I or anyone connected with football in any way.
This says so much!
That's how far we have fallen. Not too many years ago, Manchester United winning the Europa league was a bit embarrassing, like celebrate it, but not too much. Because it just felt wrong, as we are one of the big Champions League teams, kind a like Madrid winning the Europa, odd.
But now we have reached the point where our fans are delighted with being 17th in the league as long as we win the Europa!
That's how far we and our standards have fallen, sad.
This is what’s wrong and says so much!
The entitlement to live on our past memories of how good we are, living on our name, our past successes.
We have been shite for the past 12 years.
This is OUR standard now. We are no longer the powerhouse we once was, dare I say it, a sleeping giant.
The sooner fans wake up to this fact and admit we’re fighting for 4th with the teams in 5th, 6th, 7th, 8th the better.
We need to be better of course we do, we’re Man Utd, BUT we can’t be blind to where we currently are and where we have been since 2013 - a midtable side.
So we shouldn’t be turning our noses up at EL, what an entitled and almost arrogant viewpoint. Do you think City going hell for leather to win Carabao is embarrassing? No, because they want to win everything, like champions do.
I think we’re closer to Spurs than you think.
A big club believing they should be in top 4 just because they’re big and bottling every competition.
Sound familiar?
In no world have we been a “mid-table” team since 2013. We have always been either in or challenging for Champions League and a failure to do so cost managers their job until the last season.
ETH (and Amorim so far) seem to have successfully reduced expectations to the level where it’s seen as acceptable by some to lose 1-0 at home to a poor Wolves team and be hovering around 17th. However, that cannot be the approach generally or longer term. It is for both the board and Amorim to swiftly turn this situation around so that United are on the right path to returning to the top table of European football.
No. I can't agree. And neither should our players staff manager nor owners. We should have the same mentality we did 12 years ago, otherwise we are fecked. The fans are still there, the most marketable club on the planet, and the money is still there. Get the right manager and players and fight for the league and Champions League or turn into Everton permanently.
Agree, people need to accept how far we have fallen and how much the Glazers have destroyed the club, and reset expectations accordingly. There is little money, we cannot buy our way to success, the squad is the weakest since Fergie joined. We have an unproven manager who may be gone in 6 months, which will need another rebuild. Radcliffe has spent a lot of money just to sit at the table, he is not going to fund a new stadium and neither are the Glazers.
Literally nobody has said that. Being 17th is pathetic but being 17th and winning a European competition, albeit 2nd rate is still silverware at the end of the day and will get us champions league.
Agree given our current situation.
But if United were somewhere around their best, in a strong position,(2006-2011 for example) there's no way we'd accept one trophy in 5 years.
There’s still too much meat on that for the caf, needs paring back!
- Winning a trophy is better than not winning a trophy.
- Some trophies are better than others.
Awaits ‘debate’…