[Born2Lose]

Oh, FFS.

The great thing about half arsing it at United was there was never any danger of muscle strains.

 

[Marwood]

All round very frustrating case.

We need an experienced striker to help out Rasmus. It should be Rashford. There's absolutely no reason why he can't be an effective No.9.

Except for whatever is going on between the ears.

 

[romufc]

All round very frustrating case.

We need an experienced striker to help out Rasmus. It should be Rashford. There's absolutely no reason why he can't be an effective No.9.

Except for whatever is going on between the ears.

Actually, Rashford has never shown to be an effective no 9 for a team that wants to dominate.

Most of his best seasons have come when we have deployed a low block counter attacking system, as soon as the managers change to have more possession or dominate teams, Rashford can't play it.

He relies purely on space behind... when he does not have that, he is pretty much anonymous.

To play the No 9 in this formation, you need good link up play, hold up play and be quite intelligent with the runs... none of them are Rashford's strengths.

 

[foolsgold]

All round very frustrating case.

We need an experienced striker to help out Rasmus. It should be Rashford. There's absolutely no reason why he can't be an effective No.9.

Except for whatever is going on between the ears.

Also except for the fact that he's never been an effective number 9 in all his time at United. his game has never been suited to playing in this position.

 

[Marwood]

Actually, Rashford has never shown to be an effective no 9 for a team that wants to dominate.

Most of his best seasons have come when we have deployed a low block counter attacking system, as soon as the managers change to have more possession or dominate teams, Rashford can't play it.

He relies purely on space behind... when he does not have that, he is pretty much anonymous.

To play the No 9 in this formation, you need good link up play, hold up play and be quite intelligent with the runs... none of them are Rashford's strengths.

Also except for the fact that he's never been an effective number 9 in all his time at United. his game has never been suited to playing in this position.

Agree he hasn't but as per my previous post, there's no reason he can't really. That's what's frustrating. Tall, fast, shown he can score plenty, shown he knows how to time a run in behind. Was hard working.

He has the basics to play the role to at least a decent level. His hold up play isn't great but plenty of strikers are like that and still contribute well in other ways.

But for whatever reason can't mentally adjust to the role.

 

[romufc]

Agree he hasn't but as per my previous post, there's no reason he can't really. That's what's frustrating. Tall, fast, shown he can score plenty, shown he knows how to time a run in behind. Was hard working.

He has the basics to play the role to at least a decent level. His hold up play isn't great but plenty of strikers are like that and still contribute well in other ways.

But for whatever reason can't mentally adjust to the role.

Whilst he is tall, he isn't good in the air... whenever he played as a 9... he has never really challenged for ariel duels, on numerous occasions we have seen this.

So his only real attribute is running in behind, which is one of many attributes required to score and lead the line.

He's not good in tight spaces, his touch isn't always the best and isn't hard working at all.

 

[Frank White]

Always thought his best position was LW but at Villa Emery chose to start him over Watkins in their biggest games of the season in both legs to PSG and the 6 pointer against City.

Don't even rate Rashfords ability in the air but at Villa I wouldn't be surprised if he won more ariel duels than Rasmus over the course of his loan.

 

[Marwood]

Whilst he is tall, he isn't good in the air... whenever he played as a 9... he has never really challenged for ariel duels, on numerous occasions we have seen this.

So his only real attribute is running in behind, which is one of many attributes required to score and lead the line.

He's not good in tight spaces, his touch isn't always the best and isn't hard working at all.

Yeah but that's a mentality/attitude issue isn't it? It's not something he physically lacks like a small player. That's what I mean, the role is there for him if he wants it.

And taking aerial stuff as an example. It's not like the old days where the 9 is constantly heading balls that have been pumped two mile into the air by a keeper. To be useful in the air now doesn't take all that much.

To me this is Rashford's problem. He's lost who he is, what he's good and not good at He wants to be Figo when in reality his style should be more like Vardy. He should be focusing on less touches of the ball, being at the sharp end instead.

But trying to be something he isn't, some kind of on the ball a lot creator, has bashed his confidence

 

[NotChatGPT]

Yeah but that's a mentality/attitude issue isn't it? It's not something he physically lacks like a small player. That's what I mean, the role is there for him if he wants it.

And taking aerial stuff as an example. It's not like the old days where the 9 is constantly heading balls that have been pumped two mile into the air by a keeper. To be useful in the air now doesn't take all that much.

To me this is Rashford's problem. He's lost who he is, what he's good and not good at He wants to be Figo when in reality his style should be more like Vardy. He should be focusing on less touches of the ball, being at the sharp end instead.

But trying to be something he isn't, some kind of on the ball a lot creator, has bashed his confidence

I don’t think anything has bashed his confidence. If anything, i think his confidence is a bit too high and he got too cocky without having much to show for it. I mean, his loan to Villa has been fine enough, he’s been a bit productive without showing all that much, we’re not exactly talking vintage Rashford performances but hopefully enough for Aston Villa to see that there’s potentially a good player for them still in him. Yet his take on this loan from day one is that he’s too big for Aston Villa, that he’s not joining them permanently but instead he’s looking for a bigger move. It’s fairly easy to see when someone is slacking off, a bit half arsed when challenging for 50-50s, you sort of challenge but not really. Maybe it’s a combination of mentality and injuries, but i have little doubt that he thinks a bit too highly of himself. The players tribunal stuff, never question his dedication and all of that has been awkward as feck at times, never lived up to those words.

 

[Marwood]

I don’t think anything has bashed his confidence. If anything, i think his confidence is a bit too high and he got too cocky without having much to show for it. I mean, his loan to Villa has been fine enough, he’s been a bit productive without showing all that much, we’re not exactly talking vintage Rashford performances but hopefully enough for Aston Villa to see that there’s potentially a good player for them still in him. Yet his take on this loan from day one is that he’s too big for Aston Villa, that he’s not joining them permanently but instead he’s looking for a bigger move. It’s fairly easy to see when someone is slacking off, a bit half arsed when challenging for 50-50s, you sort of challenge but not really. Maybe it’s a combination of mentality and injuries, but i have little doubt that he thinks a bit too highly of himself. The players tribunal stuff, never question his dedication and all of that has been awkward as feck at times, never lived up to those words.

Yeah agree, I just think ego and confidence are two different things.

Agree his on pitch ego has taken control and he's trying to be something he isn't, some kind of playmaker. And that ego won't allow him to just stick to what he's good at, namely running in behind, less touches of the ball.

Confidence is a different thing to me. A confident Rashford doesn't take so many touches, doesn't do everything in slow motion.

You can have that ego but when it comes to it lack that real inner confidence to show your talent.

I always go for the simple explanation as well. When an athlete is underperforming for years to me the answer is simple. They're not training properly, they're not sufficiently fit.

 

[GoldanoGraham]

Where do we reckon he is going to end up? Will he be back and then loaned out again or will someone take a point on him (someone he wants)?

Wages will be the big stumbler here me thinks…..

Cannot see Amorim having him back in the squad.

 

[Gandalf Greyhame]

Maybe we end up seeing him in a United shirt again next season if United don't find anything better than a loan this summer, and Amorim's gone before a potential January recall.

 

[Frank Grimes]

I could see Arsenal taking a shot on him.

 

[NotChatGPT]

I could see Arsenal taking a shot on him.

Would’ve been more natural for them to make a move in january then.

 

[Berbasbullet]

I could see Arsenal taking a shot on him.

I could too! I feel like arsenal need to upgrade Martinelli and a striker as their big purchases. Feel like they’d be keen on him.

 

[Doracle]

Would’ve been more natural for them to make a move in january then.

Might have been seen as more risky at the time - given Amorim’s comments. Following his spell at Villa, he might be seen as a more appealing option. Arsenal also seemed to bury their head in the sand a bit in respect of their lack of firepower in January.

There was also some suggestion Rashford didn’t want to move to London recently I think. Didn’t seem to be from any credible sources but, if there is any truth in that, possibly they reached out to him and he wasn’t keen.

 

[Shark]

Where do we reckon he is going to end up? Will he be back and then loaned out again or will someone take a point on him (someone he wants)?

Wages will be the big stumbler here me thinks…..

Cannot see Amorim having him back in the squad.

Will he even be here? A lot lies heavily on this Europa final.

 

[NotChatGPT]

Might have been seen as more risky at the time - given Amorim’s comments. Following his spell at Villa, he might be seen as a more appealing option. Arsenal also seemed to bury their head in the sand a bit in respect of their lack of firepower in January.

There was also some suggestion Rashford didn’t want to move to London recently I think. Didn’t seem to be from any credible sources but, if there is any truth in that, possibly they reached out to him and he wasn’t keen.

Why would it have been more risky? He hasn’t exactly been amazing for Villa. They had the opportunity to bring him in on loan, without an obligation to buy, at a time when they were desperate for an attacking player and they still had a chance to actually win something, yet they didn’t go for him.

Rashford keeps insisting that he’s too big for Villa, so i fail to see why he’d ever turn down Arsenal

 

[Mingus]

I could see Arsenal taking a shot on him.

Wasn't it said that he'd ruled out London clubs?

 

[bond19821982]

Think it's more to do with his wages than his ability. If he is willing to go down on his wages, pretty sure we will have a spot for him in the squad (may not necessarily start)

 

[Doracle]

Why would it have been more risky? He hasn’t exactly been amazing for Villa. They had the opportunity to bring him in on loan, without an obligation to buy, at a time when they were desperate for an attacking player and they still had a chance to actually win something, yet they didn’t go for him.

Rashford keeps insisting that he’s too big for Villa, so i fail to see why he’d ever turn down Arsenal

I don’t think Rashford has ever said he is too big for Villa? Do you have quotes from him where he says that?

It would obviously have been seen as risky to take on someone who hadn’t played for 2 months, whose manager had said had a poor attitude to training and pay circa £175k a week on top of whatever they are currently burning from having Sterling hanging around on loan. Other than the injury he’s ended the season with, I’d have thought those concerns would have diminished somewhat by his displays for Villa and obviously the Sterling outlay will free up when he returns to Chelsea.

I agree it would seem odd for Rashford not to want to join Arsenal - it seems an ideal move to me. I’m only reflecting on the fact that there was some very specific (albeit unattributed) commentary in a recent article that he doesn’t want to move to London.

 

[ShinjiNinja26]

Will he even be here? A lot lies heavily on this Europa final.

He’ll still be here regardless of the outcome of the final. He’ll he backed in the summer and will be our manager next season, if we get to November and things still haven’t improved then it might be a different story.

 

[Ekeke]

Would’ve been more natural for them to make a move in january then.

They'd need to make space for him which they can do in the summer. Already having Sterling on loan, Trossard wanting games and it being Havertz' first season. Then there was Merino their other new signing, they found a role to get him involved. So yeah they'd surely need to get rid of Sterling and perhaps +1 of their attackers

They might also have wanted to see what he can do on loan at Villa or elsewhere to make a judgement on whether hes still a very good player

 

[Frank Grimes]

Wasn't it said that he'd ruled out London clubs?

That was nightclubs.

 

[NotChatGPT]

They'd need to make space for him which they can do in the summer. Already having Sterling on loan, Trossard wanting games and it being Havertz' first season. Then there was Merino their other new signing, they found a role to get him involved. So yeah they'd surely need to get rid of Sterling and perhaps +1 of their attackers

They might also have wanted to see what he can do on loan at Villa or elsewhere to make a judgement on whether hes still a very good player

They had plenty of space for him.

Why would it be problematic to bring him in on a short term loan with no obligation to actually sign him, ala the deal Aston Villa made. If they were actually interested, it would seem like a fairly simple gamble to make.

I don’t think Rashford has ever said he is too big for Villa? Do you have quotes from him where he says that?

It would obviously have been seen as risky to take on someone who hadn’t played for 2 months, whose manager had said had a poor attitude to training and pay circa £175k a week on top of whatever they are currently burning from having Sterling hanging around on loan. Other than the injury he’s ended the season with, I’d have thought those concerns would have diminished somewhat by his displays for Villa and obviously the Sterling outlay will free up when he returns to Chelsea.

I agree it would seem odd for Rashford not to want to join Arsenal - it seems an ideal move to me. I’m only reflecting on the fact that there was some very specific (albeit unattributed) commentary in a recent article that he doesn’t want to move to London.

"Obviously it’s only short-term I’m here, so I want to make the most of my time here, and the only way to do that is by using my attributes and my skillset to help the team.”

That was one of the first comments he made after joining Villa. Obviously it's only short term, obviously

Sancho was completely removed from the first team trainings, still managed to loan him out to Dortmund and then Chelsea. Not sure why Amorim being unhappy with Rashford would be considered much of a problem for Arsenal to bring in Rashford on a loan without an obligation to actually sign him.

 

[Antisocial]

Where do we reckon he is going to end up? Will he be back and then loaned out again or will someone take a point on him (someone he wants)?

Wages will be the big stumbler here me thinks…..

Cannot see Amorim having him back in the squad.

Loaned out again with us subsidising wages again I think, just like Sancho. But unlike Sancho I think there will be a respectable amount of clubs interested in Rashford, so hopefully we can save a bit more on wages with Rashford.

 

[Shark]

He’ll still be here regardless of the outcome of the final. He’ll he backed in the summer and will be our manager next season, if we get to November and things still haven’t improved then it might be a different story.

I disagree, but time will tell.

 

[Frank White]

They had plenty of space for him.

Why would it be problematic to bring him in on a short term loan with no obligation to actually sign him, ala the deal Aston Villa made. If they were actually interested, it would seem like a fairly simple gamble to make.



"Obviously it’s only short-term I’m here, so I want to make the most of my time here, and the only way to do that is by using my attributes and my skillset to help the team.”

That was one of the first comments he made after joining Villa. Obviously it's only short term, obviously

Sancho was completely removed from the first team trainings, still managed to loan him out to Dortmund and then Chelsea. Not sure why Amorim being unhappy with Rashford would be considered much of a problem for Arsenal to bring in Rashford on a loan without an obligation to actually sign him.

It was a 6 month loan, that's literally short term.

 

[NotChatGPT]

It was a 6 month loan, that's literally short term.

A 6 month loan with an option to buy at a pre-agreed sum

 

[Frank White]

A 6 month loan with an option to buy at a pre-agreed sum

Yes option, not obligation. In the same article you're quoting he refers to Villa as "we" and "us"

 

[NotChatGPT]

Yes option, not obligation. In the same article you're quoting he refers to Villa as "we" and "us"

I don’t see your point. Rashford agreed to a loan deal with Aston Villa where they have an option to buy at a pre-agreed price. Aston Villa obviously had a permanent move in mind when they made the deal, and it’s not like either parties were unaware of that. It’s a bit silly to instantly announce that you’re only there for a short period when the club you’ve joined on loan are also thinking about making him a permanent signing, and it makes it pretty clear that in his mind signing permanently for Villa wasn’t really an option

 

[ClaytonBlackmoorLeftPeg]

I don’t see your point. Rashford agreed to a loan deal with Aston Villa where they have an option to buy at a pre-agreed price. Aston Villa obviously had a permanent move in mind when they made the deal, and it’s not like either parties were unaware of that. It’s a bit silly to instantly announce that you’re only there for a short period when the club you’ve joined on loan are also thinking about making him a permanent signing, and it makes it pretty clear that in his mind signing permanently for Villa wasn’t really an option

The option to buy had nothing to do with Rashford.

It’s up to Villa to persuade him to stay, if they want to based on his time there. You are reading things into this that just aren’t there/ don’t matter.

 

[NotChatGPT]

The option to buy had nothing to do with Rashford.

It’s up to Villa to persuade him to stay, if they want to based on his time there. You are reading things into this that just aren’t there/ don’t matter.

He’s been mediocre/poor for a long period of time, announces he wants a new challenge somewhere else after he’s been challenged by the manager to improve attitude and performances. feck all interest in him by any top clubs despite both the club and player actively working on sorting out something. Last minute loan deal with Aston Villa where they want an option to buy at a pre-agreed price. And it doesn’t say something about his overall attitude that the first thing he does is state that he’s only there for a short time, aka the option to buy is by itself meaningless for Villa. I disagree, i think it’s an extremely daft thing to state.

 

[Doracle]

I don’t see your point. Rashford agreed to a loan deal with Aston Villa where they have an option to buy at a pre-agreed price. Aston Villa obviously had a permanent move in mind when they made the deal, and it’s not like either parties were unaware of that. It’s a bit silly to instantly announce that you’re only there for a short period when the club you’ve joined on loan are also thinking about making him a permanent signing, and it makes it pretty clear that in his mind signing permanently for Villa wasn’t really an option

The reality is that he’s a not particularly confident speaker who was just trying to convey how keen he was to do well in his loan spell. That’s all there is to that comment.

In any case, your original comment which I queried was that “Rashford keeps insisting that he’s too big for Villa”. I take it that he hasn’t actually said that then?

 

[NotChatGPT]

The reality is that he’s a not particularly confident speaker who was just trying to convey how keen he was to do well in his loan spell. That’s all there is to that comment.

In any case, your original comment which I queried was that “Rashford keeps insisting that he’s too big for Villa”. I take it that he hasn’t actually said that then?

How else do you translate «obviously it’s only short term» when the club loaning him has shown interest in signing him long term.

 

[Posh Red]

How else do you translate «obviously it’s only short term» when the club loaning him has shown interest in signing him long term.

Seems a huge leap to translate that into ‘keeps insisting that he’s too big for Villa’. How did you arrive at that conclusion just from that statement?

 

[Frank White]

I don’t see your point. Rashford agreed to a loan deal with Aston Villa where they have an option to buy at a pre-agreed price. Aston Villa obviously had a permanent move in mind when they made the deal, and it’s not like either parties were unaware of that. It’s a bit silly to instantly announce that you’re only there for a short period when the club you’ve joined on loan are also thinking about making him a permanent signing, and it makes it pretty clear that in his mind signing permanently for Villa wasn’t really an option

They had a permanent move in mind if everything went perfect e.g they managed to win the CL or qualify for the CL or his form was amazing.

Emery has basically said as much whenever asked about making the move permanent.

 

[NotChatGPT]

They had a permanent move in mind if everything went perfect e.g they managed to win the CL or qualify for the CL or his form was amazing.

Emery has basically said as much whenever asked about making the move permanent.

Having a permanent move in mind is the only thing that matters really, Rashford was loaned both for the short term gain and potentially turning it into a permanent transfer if he showed he could return to his best. I’d say the notion of turning it into a permanent deal was quickly shot down by Rashfords insistance that it’s only short term. I’d be happy to be proved wrong.

Seems a huge leap to translate that into ‘keeps insisting that he’s too big for Villa’. How did you arrive at that conclusion just from that statement?

It’s not like he’s only mentioned it once. Maybe i’m wrong, but for me it’s fairly easy to arrive at that conclusion. You’re at a new place, you’re well aware of your overall situation and the lack of interest from other clubs in a permanent deal, yet you specifically say you’re there short term despite knowing that the club you’ve arrived at has an interest in a transfer if everything works out as intended. Has Rashford even once expressed an interest in staying at Villa beyond his loan? Compare that with Sabitzer, Ighalo.

 

[justsomebloke]

Actually, Rashford has never shown to be an effective no 9 for a team that wants to dominate.

Most of his best seasons have come when we have deployed a low block counter attacking system, as soon as the managers change to have more possession or dominate teams, Rashford can't play it.

He relies purely on space behind... when he does not have that, he is pretty much anonymous.

To play the No 9 in this formation, you need good link up play, hold up play and be quite intelligent with the runs... none of them are Rashford's strengths.

We did not play a low block, or anything remotely close to it, in either of his two recent good seasons. I really don't know why people go on with that nonsense. On the other hand, he wasn't a 9 either.

 

[Frank White]

Having a permanent move in mind is the only thing that matters really, Rashford was loaned both for the short term gain and potentially turning it into a permanent transfer if he showed he could return to his best. I’d say the notion of turning it into a permanent deal was quickly shot down by Rashfords insistance that it’s only short term. I’d be happy to be proved wrong.



It’s not like he’s only mentioned it once. Maybe i’m wrong, but for me it’s fairly easy to arrive at that conclusion. You’re at a new place, you’re well aware of your overall situation and the lack of interest from other clubs in a permanent deal, yet you specifically say you’re there short term despite knowing that the club you’ve arrived at has an interest in a transfer if everything works out as intended. Has Rashford even once expressed an interest in staying at Villa beyond his loan? Compare that with Sabitzer, Ighalo.

He's said it more than once?