Liam Delap | £30m release clause?

If he was to be our only centre forward signing - which I really don't think he should be personally, I'd sign two - what sort of number do we reckon would indicate a good first season for a £30m twenty two year old striker leading the line for a the vast majority of our games? Assuming no penalties.

I feel there's probably a pretty extreme range here starting from "Well, Hojlund cost £70m and he's got four" and going to "We're Man Utd, our striker should be topping the scoring charts".

I think 14 league goals would be quite good, assuming decent all round play alongside it. I can imagine at the end of next season thinking we were right to back him if that was the end result.
 
1. He's only scored 2 penalties.
2. The quality point stands and unless you think we're going to be a relegation side next season the point is redundant.
The quality point would be valid if we were top half of the table even. But being that we are 16th and struggle to impose ourselves in matches against midtable opposition it just smacks of delusion.

If you think he has the quality to step in and smash it at United that’s your opinion and I hope I am very wrong and you are very right if we do sign him. But far better strikers in far better United sides have failed to deliver. So aside from blind optimism I don’t see cause for excitement at this kid potentially leading the line next season.
 
If he was to be our only centre forward signing - which I really don't think he should be personally, I'd sign two - what sort of number do we reckon would indicate a good first season for a £30m twenty two year old striker leading the line for a the vast majority of our games? Assuming no penalties.

I feel there's probably a pretty extreme range here starting from "Well, Hojlund cost £70m and he's got four" and going to "We're Man Utd, our striker should be topping the scoring charts".

I think 14 league goals would be quite good, assuming decent all round play alongside it. I can imagine at the end of next season thinking we were right to back him if that was the end result.
Yep, I think that's about fair.

I'd be happy if we stabilise and push into the Europoean spots next year personally. Expecting anymore is setting us up for inevitable failure.

European spots go down to 8/9th this year. Taking Brentford as an example - Mbuemo / Wissa / Shade all have double figures (18, 18, 11) in the PL. If we could achieve something similar across our Striker & #10's I think we'd be in a good place. I could very much see Delap achieving that.

I get the scepticism from some, but looking at the market I just don't see many alternatives, and none look like sure bets regardless. He'll improve the squad for £30m, and that's great for me.
 
The quality point would be valid if we were top half of the table even. But being that we are 16th and struggle to impose ourselves in matches against midtable opposition it just smacks of delusion.

If you think he has the quality to step in and smash it at United that’s your opinion and I hope I am very wrong and you are very right if we do sign him. But far better strikers in far better United sides have failed to deliver. So aside from blind optimism I don’t see cause for excitement at this kid potentially leading the line next season.
And apart from blind pessimism I don't see the cause for despair at him leading the line for us. The logic here seems to be founded upon 'better strikers in better sides have failed to deliver'. Well, yes, but using that logic you'd never sign anyone, as almost everyone is a gamble to some extent.
 
If he was to be our only centre forward signing - which I really don't think he should be personally, I'd sign two - what sort of number do we reckon would indicate a good first season for a £30m twenty two year old striker leading the line for a the vast majority of our games? Assuming no penalties.

I feel there's probably a pretty extreme range here starting from "Well, Hojlund cost £70m and he's got four" and going to "We're Man Utd, our striker should be topping the scoring charts".

I think 14 league goals would be quite good, assuming decent all round play alongside it. I can imagine at the end of next season thinking we were right to back him if that was the end result.
Who, though? Assuming Osimhen is going to Saudi and Gyokeres is going to Arsenal? The name I see mentioned most often as a potential second striker signing is Jonathan David, who will probably have a lot of other suitors because he's on a free and, by most accounts, isn't any better than Delap.

There's no way we're spending £62m on Cunha, £30m on Delap AND another £50-60m on Watkins or Mateta.
 
The quality point would be valid if we were top half of the table even. But being that we are 16th and struggle to impose ourselves in matches against midtable opposition it just smacks of delusion.

If you think he has the quality to step in and smash it at United that’s your opinion and I hope I am very wrong and you are very right if we do sign him. But far better strikers in far better United sides have failed to deliver. So aside from blind optimism I don’t see cause for excitement at this kid potentially leading the line next season.
Its valid now. Our quality level is higher than 16th. And it's even more valid after a window of recruiting.

He certainly has the quality, but I don't think hel smash it in from season one. This idea that he worsens his tally from a relegated side with 40% possession is bonkers fear mongering. I feel many here outright haven't watched Delap and are scarred by Hojlund.

The term "blind" is certainly right for the take you support. There's really nothing to suggest he has 8 goal a season striker written all over him.
 
1. He's only scored 2 penalties.
2. The quality point stands and unless you think we're going to be a relegation side next season the point is redundant.
We're an extremely jittery side with a very uncertain future ahead of us. How can the point be redundant when we've trended negatively for three seasons in a row?

We'd like to believe things will flip to the "right side" and the nightmare be over, but it's far from assured, especially with the names we're being linked with, who are coming out of bogs and troughs themselves and know nothing of the dizzying heights of even 8th placed finishes in the PL.
He's only taken 2 penalties for Ipswich.

This notion that Delap will go down from 10 open goals for a side that's not as strong in quality to 8 goals just out of fear is just weird to me.

Look at the player and how he suits the league. There's so many examples of his excellent carrying, hes very bullish and he strikes the ball very quickly before keepers have a chance to set themselves. He's an absolute pest at 22, youl struggle to find many strikers capable of doing this in their first year of PL football.

Mateta is an interesting comparison who was pretty shit before last season.
The madness of this thread for me is people acting like we've not just seen one very young striker completely capitulate under the weight of expectation here and are blindly lining up the next one to shoot out of the cannon in what feels like a cognitive dissonant haze where it couldn't possibly happen again.

At Ipswich, Delap got a round of applause for participating - doing well, but for trying his heart out in a doomed team. If he comes here as our lead striker, especially in the post blues of Hojlund's disastrous campaign, he will be under even more pressure than Hojlund was/is and some will be even more antsy, skittish and unforgiving of him than they are of Hojlund.

The problem is, once you are the lead striker, you have all the pressure, all the burden and all the highs and lows of the #1 guy. Delap knows nothing about that life at a club like this. He may take to it like a duck to water. Alternatively, it may consume him. Whole. And that'd be where the lack of an experienced striker taking over the reins would once again bite us on our most sensitive bits. At the other clubs he is linked to, he is one of a few strikers and can/will share the load - he won't have a team on his shoulders. I don't know how anyone doesn't see the potential pitfalls in the predicament that could befall him here contrasted to anywhere else - and surely you can see how that might correlate with a drop in productivity if he does slump, or even if he needs a concerted period of adjustment?

I don't think his goal tally from Ipswich is 1:1 assured and transferable. There are so many reasons as to why it might not go as some envision. The dream is: better calibre of players with more distractions leads to him equalling or bettering his tally from this season, but this isn't FIFA and omitting the human element in favour of pure, raw data is especially precarious when it comes to young players who haven't hit their peak years yet. There isn't the data to even be assured this season of his won't be the anomaly. A supposed upward trend is as much imagination and hope as it is a logical alley-oop to a better and more rounded player.

What doesn't seem to be considered much in this thread is that Delap is a £30m punt, rotation and back up for the other clubs linked, whilst for us, it's looking like he's going to be the guy; no experience ahead of him, nobody to share the load or even carry him in times of need. And what's more, in a considerably more pressurised and desperate situation than anyone else linked with him finds themselves in. That's a crushing weight of expectation, enough to give the kid serious props should he come in and thrive having known nothing of the sort in his fledgling career.

A last point would be, there's no certainty a player comes in and improves their tally just for being at a bigger club; even Andy Cole wilted and reduced considerably from prolific goalscorer to a more rounded player whose tallies weren't half as impressive, initially. If it can happen to him - a far, far superior player to Delap, in a far, far superior and settled team - then it can certainly happen to Delap.
 
I get the notion he won't be prolific but how does someone take a 12 goal striker for a relegated side and translate them to an 8 goal striker when there's more quality around him?
Because progression isn't always linear and the weight of expectation of playing as the main striker for United is very different to that of playing for Ipswich Town.

You only have to look at Hojlund from last season to now to see what could happen. Last year he scored 10 league goals and you would've expected after a year's experience of playing in the league and a summer of us supposedly strengthening that he would kick on, but the reality is he looks a shadow of the player he was even last season.
 
Who, though? Assuming Osimhen is going to Saudi and Gyokeres is going to Arsenal? The name I see mentioned most often as a potential second striker signing is Jonathan David, who will probably have a lot of other suitors because he's on a free and, by most accounts, isn't any better than Delap.

There's no way we're spending £62m on Cunha, £30m on Delap AND another £50-60m on Watkins or Mateta.
I'd be looking the cheaper end of the spectrum, not the kind of names and figures you're talking here. With the possible exception of David depending on how fierce the competition from the other suitors you mention is. I would be having Delap as the initial starter but adding an alternative, rather than trying to sign someone to be first choice ahead of him.
 
Its valid now. Our quality level is higher than 16th. And it's even more valid after a window of recruiting.

He certainly has the quality, but I don't think hel smash it in from season one. This idea that he worsens his tally from a relegated side with 40% possession is bonkers fear mongering. I feel many here outright haven't watched Delap and are scarred by Hojlund.

The term "blind" is certainly right for the take you support. There's really nothing to suggest he has 8 goal a season striker written all over him.
If our quality level is higher than 16th why aren’t we higher than 16th ? I get being positive but we are where we are.

And INEOS have shown nothing from a recruitment perspective to justify confidence in us getting that right this summer either. So pardon the rest of us who see this signing as more of the same.

Delap is a decent young player who should be starting for a midtable PL side at best. You said yourself that you don’t expect him to hit the ground running next season.
 
Bite your bloody hand off. So long as we get an experienced striker in along with.
Yep. This at least guarantees two bodies up front without breaking the bank. I don’t want to see us chase Gyokeres all summer, fail to get him and go into next season with Delap and Hojlund or worse just Hojlund on his own.
 
We're an extremely jittery side with a very uncertain future ahead of us. How can the point be redundant when we've trended negatively for three seasons in a row?

We'd like to believe things will flip to the "right side" and the nightmare be over, but it's far from assured, especially with the names we're being linked with, who are coming out of bogs and troughs themselves and know nothing of the dizzying heights of even 8th placed finishes in the PL.

The madness of this thread for me is people acting like we've not just seen one very young striker completely capitulate under the weight of expectation here and are blindly lining up the next one to shoot out of the cannon in what feels like a cognitive dissonant haze where it couldn't possibly happen again.

At Ipswich, Delap got a round of applause for participating - doing well, but for trying his heart out in a doomed team. If he comes here as our lead striker, especially in the post blues of Hojlund's disastrous campaign, he will be under even more pressure than Hojlund was/is and some will be even more antsy, skittish and unforgiving of him than they are of Hojlund.

The problem is, once you are the lead striker, you have all the pressure, all the burden and all the highs and lows of the #1 guy. Delap knows nothing about that life at a club like this. He may take to it like a duck to water. Alternatively, it may consume him. Whole. And that'd be where the lack of an experienced striker taking over the reins would once again bite us on our most sensitive bits. At the other clubs he is linked to, he is one of a few strikers and can/will share the load - he won't have a team on his shoulders. I don't know how anyone doesn't see the potential pitfalls in the predicament that could befall him here contrasted to anywhere else - and surely you can see how that might correlate with a drop in productivity if he does slump, or even if he needs a concerted period of adjustment?

I don't think his goal tally from Ipswich is 1:1 assured and transferable. There are so many reasons as to why it might not go as some envision. The dream is: better calibre of players with more distractions leads to him equalling or bettering his tally from this season, but this isn't FIFA and omitting the human element in favour of pure, raw data is especially precarious when it comes to young players who haven't hit their peak years yet. There isn't the data to even be assured this season of his won't be the anomaly. A supposed upward trend is as much imagination and hope as it is a logical alley-oop to a better and more rounded player.

What doesn't seem to be considered much in this thread is that Delap is a £30m punt, rotation and back up for the other clubs linked, whilst for us, it's looking like he's going to be the guy; no experience ahead of him, nobody to share the load or even carry him in times of need. And what's more, in a considerably more pressurised and desperate situation than anyone else linked with him finds themselves in. That's a crushing weight of expectation, enough to give the kid serious props should he come in and thrive having known nothing of the sort in his fledgling career.

A last point would be, there's no certainty a player comes in and improves their tally just for being at a bigger club; even Andy Cole wilted and reduced considerably from prolific goalscorer to a more rounded player whose tallies weren't half as impressive, initially. If it can happen to him - a far, far superior player to Delap, in a far, far superior and settled team - then it can certainly happen to Delap.
There's a lot I agree with here, but I don't think anyone is arguing against the fact that signing a 'proven' goalscorer alongside would be preferable. Of course it would. What I think those on this side of the fence are trying to temper is the endless pessimism surrounding the signing of a player that's had a good season for a struggling club. Yes, the pressure at United is incredibly high but at some point a player has to make that step up. Some wilt, others don't. Mane is a good example of Joe it can go right (though he was obviously surrounded by much better players). I think the frustrating thing, to me at least, are the posts that rehearse the same gloomy 'He's average and will fail here' posts, based on very little beyond gut feeling and what happened with Hojlund.
 
If our quality level is higher than 16th why aren’t we higher than 16th ? I get being positive but we are where we are.

And INEOS have shown nothing from a recruitment perspective to justify confidence in us getting that right this summer either. So pardon the rest of us who see this signing as more of the same.

Delap is a decent young player who should be starting for a midtable PL side at best. You said yourself that you don’t expect him to hit the ground running next season.
Is this a serious question? If you think our squad quality is an accurate reflection of where we are in the table let's end the debate there.
 
Because progression isn't always linear and the weight of expectation of playing as the main striker for United is very different to that of playing for Ipswich Town.

You only have to look at Hojlund from last season to now to see what could happen. Last year he scored 10 league goals and you would've expected after a year's experience of playing in the league and a summer of us supposedly strengthening that he would kick on, but the reality is he looks a shadow of the player he was even last season.
Not linear no, but also not always backwardation.

The post that had me questioning it was that he's got 8 goal a season striker written all over him. IE that's his level. It's a bizarre take - almost as bizarre as comparing him to Hojlund who is less proven and played in an easier league.
 
Is this a serious question? If you think our squad quality is an accurate reflection of where we are in the table let's end the debate there.
I think we damn well deserve to be where we are right now. Not as if the performances have been significantly better than the results.
 
I agree that Delap's lack of experience could be a factor that effects his transition, from a small club to a massive club.

But lets look at this objectively:

How many chances has Hojlund squandered in recent weeks? One that doesn't even have an XG for is the open goal against Wolves where he slid after the ball had gone past.

How many times does the ball ping of Hojlund when we play up to him?

How many times does Hojlund not pass to his other teammates in better positions? Was it Brentford he ignored someone in a 2 on 1.

Delap doesn't have to be Isak, if he contributes by scoring double figures in the league and 5/6 assists, that is a massive improvement.

The recent our attack is so blunt, is we have no focal point so teams press us as they know it is coming straight back to them, even if he is 50% better than Hojlund it will mean teams, will have to not press as high for our counter threat, from the movement I have seen from him in games, he is much better at beating the defender with a run cutting across them, that's not to say it is finished, he is still a work in progress player.

We have so many holes in this squad, for a £30m punt he is worth the risk, he would be an upgrade, is he the ST to take us back to where we want to be? Who knows, but if he doesn't work out then we can replace him while retaining majority of his value.
 
Not linear no, but also not always backwardation.

The post that had me questioning it was that he's got 8 goal a season striker written all over him. IE that's his level. It's a bizarre take - almost as bizarre as comparing him to Hojlund who is less proven and played in an easier league.
8 Championship goals in 31 appearances last season and 4 in 37 the season before.

Not exactly an outlandish claim. He isn't a seasoned striker with demonstrable quality behind him. He's a punt who has had one decent season in the Premier League for a relegated side.

If we weren't in such a position of desperation we'd never be looking at a player like Delap to be our main striker. I'd argue that we still shouldn't.
 
8 Championship goals in 31 appearances last season and 4 in 37 the season before.

Not exactly an outlandish claim. He isn't a seasoned striker with demonstrable quality behind him. He's a punt who has had one decent season in the Premier League for a relegated side.

If we weren't in such a position of desperation we'd never be looking at a player like Delap to be our main striker. I'd argue that we still shouldn't.

The problem is we keep looking at if, buts and maybe's... there comes a time where you need to know your place on the negotiating table.

He is £30m... not like we would be paying 60/70m for him. Jason Wilcox knows him from his City days, so he understands his talent.

There is also a shortage of strikers and Chelsea, Arsenal, Liverpool are all in for a striker and will probably have 1st-3rd say on whom they want.

Unfortunately, we find ourselves in a position we need to adjust our expectations on what we can sign.
 
I think we damn well deserve to be where we are right now. Not as if the performances have been significantly better than the results.
No, I asked if the quality of the squad is reflective of the position. There's a key difference here.
 
8 Championship goals in 31 appearances last season and 4 in 37 the season before.

Not exactly an outlandish claim. He isn't a seasoned striker with demonstrable quality behind him. He's a punt who has had one decent season in the Premier League for a relegated side.

If we weren't in such a position of desperation we'd never be looking at a player like Delap to be our main striker. I'd argue that we still shouldn't.
Of course it's an outlandish claim. For starters he's demonstrated making consistent steps up and second, his first year in the PL at 21 showed no signs of being out of place.

Normally for players where the shirt is too heavy or the quality is too big a step up you'd see a regression, temporary or otherwise. For anyone who's actually watched Delap in his games, it's clearly not the case.

You compare him to Mateta when he joined and it's even more impressive. The indicators you gave and his general performances suggest he's not going to go on to be some 8 goal a season striker. He's actually getting better and better.
 
No, I asked if the quality of the squad is reflective of the position. There's a key difference here.
The quality of the squad is irrelevant. As others have said we have been trending downward the past few seasons. Are our performances and results supposed to improve significantly purely because we have a preseason under Amorim ?
 
As a signing in isolation it just adds confusion...Hojlund and Delap just looks messy.

But when the summer ends and a few more players arrive/leave it might make more sense?

So I'll wait and see, it's just very hard to trust United in the transfer market.
 
We need a striker that is experienced and has a proven goalscoring record. Going with Delap and Højlund as strike options next year is a recipe for disaster - meaning we will probably end up doing it.
 
The quality of the squad is irrelevant. As others have said we have been trending downward the past few seasons. Are our performances and results supposed to improve significantly purely because we have a preseason under Amorim ?
What do you mean the quality is irrelevant? Its nor irrelevant.

Unless you reasonably think we wil fight for relegation next season you have no basis on your initial point. This season is clearly an anomaly.

Also it's not a few seasons, more like two, of which this season has a mountain of context behind.
 
What do you mean the quality is irrelevant? Its nor irrelevant.

Unless you reasonably think we wil fight for relegation next season you have no basis on your initial point. This season is clearly an anomaly.

Also it's not a few seasons, more like two, of which this season has a mountain of context behind.
It isnt an anomaly. We have been severely on a downtrend since ETH. The low has been fast tracked for whatever reason, but this is exactly where we were heading.
 
How good is this chap? Can he be top class? Liverpool are targeting Wirtz and Frimpong whereas hardly any exciting links for us
 
What do you mean the quality is irrelevant? Its nor irrelevant.

Unless you reasonably think we wil fight for relegation next season you have no basis on your initial point. This season is clearly an anomaly.

Also it's not a few seasons, more like two, of which this season has a mountain of context behind.
This season has been a proper crashing landing.

If you want to comfort yourself with buzzwords like context and squad quality go right ahead though.
 
This season has been a proper crashing landing.

If you want to comfort yourself with buzzwords like context and squad quality go right ahead though.
Its not a buzzword. I had a simple question, do you reasonably think that we will be relegation contenders next year? If not, your point 1) is redundant.
 
It isnt an anomaly. We have been severely on a downtrend since ETH. The low has been fast tracked for whatever reason, but this is exactly where we were heading.
It is an anomaly because we more than likely won't be back in this position next season or the season after.
 
Its not a buzzword. I had a simple question, do you reasonably think that we will be relegation contenders next year? If not, your point 1) is redundant.
Doesn’t render the point redundant either way but we will do really well to finish top half next season.
 
We need a striker that is experienced and has a proven goalscoring record. Going with Delap and Højlund as strike options next year is a recipe for disaster - meaning we will probably end up doing it.
Yup, huge gamble. Can't see Delap scoring 15-20 goals in the PL. Still an upgrade over Höjlund.
 
Doesn’t render the point redundant either way but we will do really well to finish top half next season.
Of course it does. I said he scored 12 goals for a relegated side and you said we are close to relegation.

You supposedly agree that we likely won't be in that spot next season so it's a moot point. He's not joining a side that overhauled the manager and the system and sold some big earners in real-time as games were going on.

He's joining a side that would have finally had a preseason from the new coach alongside other signings integral to making the system work. Apples and pears
 
Of course it does. I said he scored 12 goals for a relegated side and you said we are close to relegation.

You supposedly agree that we likely won't be in that spot next season so it's a moot point. He's not joining a side that overhauled the manager and the system and sold some big earners in real-time as games were going on.

He's joining a side that would have finally had a preseason from the new coach alongside other signings integral to making the system work. Apples and pears
No I said you would have a valid point about Delap improving due to the gap in the quality between us and Ipswich if we were a top half side, which we are not and might not be next season either. Also we have been in relegation form in the league for months now but never mind that.

I don’t have time for pedantry especially if you are going to twist what was actually said.
 
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No I said you would have a valid point about Delap improving due to the gap in the quality between us and Ipswich if we were a top half side, which we are not and might not be next season either. Also we have been in relegation form in the league for months now but never mind that.

I don’t have time for pedantry especially if you are going to twist what was actually said.
We would be a top half side. And even if we weren't we'd still be levels higher in quality and service than Ipswich were so yes it's a very moot point.

I know what you said to try to discredit him. In your own words without twisting anything, you suggested 1. Penalties materially affect the stats, and 2. We are also close to relegation.

It shows you don't really watch him from point 1. And its clear you there's no relevance from point 2. Since we more than likely won't be close to relegation in the season he were to join.
 
Would people take Delap and David for a combined 30m right now? I would
Think I said that earlier in the thread or another one as I think Delap has shown enough to make me think he’d do better for us than Hojlund has but I don’t think he’s a generational striker like Rooney or Shearer were so can’t go into next season with Delap as our main striker and there’s a great need for someone experienced in there too

Because of our finances and how much moving Hojlund on at a loss will feck us PSR wise I think Delap and David make great sense and we could loan Hojlund out for a season in the hope he does well like Antony has and can at least break even on Hojlund in regards to PSR which if loaned out for next season would stand at around £28 million which you’d think is doable in a years time with a good loan.
 
Of course it does. I said he scored 12 goals for a relegated side and you said we are close to relegation.

You supposedly agree that we likely won't be in that spot next season so it's a moot point. He's not joining a side that overhauled the manager and the system and sold some big earners in real-time as games were going on.

He's joining a side that would have finally had a preseason from the new coach alongside other signings integral to making the system work. Apples and pears
You're presuming we won't be in a similar place next season but we've not currently got any real reason to believe that's the case. The same manager, the same team that can't consistently score goals and is on a negative goal difference. We've been poor at integrating new attackers for a long time so. You might need to temper your expectations somewhat as any improvement is likely to be incremental. There's one team between us and the drop zone, and on goal difference they're a better side than us and unlucky to be there