ESPN: Amorim prioritising, Pace, Power and Atheticism this summer

Glad the club and the manager finally found our weakiest spot in our squad. But finding a Rodri is so difficult in the market. No idea who would be willing to come to us at this stage.
 
VP89 said:
Considering technical isn't part of this brief it seems, Im worried theyl still feck it up. The players you named also knew how to play ball
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If a professional footballer does not have technique then he should not be earning a living in the game.
 
i dont understand why some people take his words with such a binary reasoning. It’s not physicality vs technicality here.
It’s a simple acknowledgement that you absolutely need players able to play with intensity in their game.
For all the talk about PSG, they started to click this season once the whole team started pressing relentlessly every game, something their previous squads severely lacked. Khvara runs his socks off every game, he made young players like Doue and Barcola run a lot, even Dembele presses for most games now.
Another poster already said it but Vitinha and Neves can run non stop.
The only player with this kind of intensity in our squad is Bruno and maybe Amad when fit.
Also, statistically, in a UCL tie it’s usually the team with the most km run and sprints that wins the game.

What Amorim is saying is basically we need to up the physical floor of this squad, something Rangnick already said 3 years ago
 
I agree with much of what Simonhch says

Picking up on the must haves

GK - A commanding, consistent, capable keeper.
Agreed I read Heaton is staying BUt muSt be a chance they off load both BAYINDIr and Onana and bring in 2

LCB - A left footed, tall, strong, fairly quick and decent passing centre-back.
This seems to be Heaven

RWB - A fast, industrious, technically gifted winger who isn't afraid of assuming defensive responsibilities and has stamina.
Yep agreed - not hearing many names linked - with the outgoings willingness to join might be mkre a problem than money

CM - An industrious and technically gifted midfielder who is equally adept at winning the ball as he is using the ball.
There were links to the lad at Napoli but not sure the Italian league is the right market and suspect with the number of possible exits there is a need for 2 especially if Bruno leaves

Left 10 - A fast, powerful and technical right footed inside left forward.
This seems to be Cunha and if Bruno Eriksen Garnacho all leave could be a need for two

CF - A quick technically gifted centre-forward who is a clinical finisher and has a proven track record at the highest level. Must be a good presser/industrious.
This seems to be either or Mateta or Delap - personally if Rasmus Rashford Sancho Antony are all being sold then we will need two #9 and to develop ObI as a 3rd
 
Only Bruno and Yoro are at a high level technically and physically. Amad is a little too weak and slow, Garnacho lacks a bit technically, but both are close. The rest of our players are either too slow such as De Ligt and Zirkzee or lack technical ability such as Höjlund and Dorgu. Shaw and Casemiro also had both but they are past it.
 
Bondi77 said:
Recruitment has been shocking for a long time.
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Right, probably because we were looking at physical players alone for a while.

Which is why I said the technical focus really needs to be in that brief.
 
Judas said:
I'm bemused at people trying to make this out like its a bad thing?
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We have said all along that we have too many slow players in this squad and ones who are weak as dishwater. Like you I cannot understand why they are moaning. It should have dawned on someone at the club well before now. Why are our players gassed by HT? As long as those players have technical ability as well as the other attributes it is good.
 
We would buy physical players this window but they will lack technical ability and then Amorim will fail. Next manager will come in and say he wants to focus on getting technical players. We will buy technical players but they will lack physical ability and then that manager will fail also

Just giving an example of how our recruitment tends to work
 
Cathy Ferguson said:
Only Bruno and Yoro are at a high level technically and physically. Amad is a little too weak and slow, Garnacho lacks a bit technically, but both are close. The rest of our players are either too slow such as De Ligt and Zirkzee or lack technical ability such as Höjlund and Dorgu. Shaw and Casemiro also had both but they are past it.
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Amad is faster than Bruno and yoro.
 
Drainy said:
Prior to January who have we signed where we've gone after physical qualities over technical ones?
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Hojlund was meant to be physical at 6ft 4 and reportedly rapid (yeah right), and Ugarte is not focused on the technical side either.

Were basically briefing that we want people who can go up and down but if we forget a technical ability then we'd be headless chickens.
 
Cathy Ferguson said:
Only Bruno and Yoro are at a high level technically and physically. Amad is a little too weak and slow, Garnacho lacks a bit technically, but both are close. The rest of our players are either too slow such as De Ligt and Zirkzee or lack technical ability such as Höjlund and Dorgu. Shaw and Casemiro also had both but they are past it.
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Your inclusion of Bruno there kinda proves a point that technique/brain is as important as physical traits. Bruno has a great engine which is obviously an athletic trait but he’s 5’10’’ and 10 stone and has average pace at best.


If you were signing players on the basis of pace, power and athleticism then Bruno Fernandes does not make it onto any shortlist.
 
Bondi77 said:
If a professional footballer does not have technique then he should not be earning a living in the game.
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Have you seen our players?

Haha no but really there is having technique and then there is having technique at PL pace and intensity of the game. This is why athleticism is important.
 
Gibbs-white? If Bruno goes.
I know he’s been linked with city but get the feeling he isn’t their first choice and I believe he’s a utd fan
 
VP89 said:
Hojlund was meant to be physical at 6ft 4 and reportedly rapid (yeah right), and Ugarte is not focused on the technical side either.

Were basically briefing that we want people who can go up and down but if we forget a technical ability then we'd be headless chickens.
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Certainly they were signed for their intensity and bite.

Before joining Hojlund was considered a decent finisher, particularly with big chances in and around the box. He's not shown that with us.

Ugarte is a weird case because he has shown he is very capable of keeping possession, but then every so often he goes through a few games where he loses it often

I guess both count as more developmental with raw materials to work with but not quite sure they are exactly the types of players we're looking at profiling now to my understanding.

Look at Dorgu, Heaven and Diego Leon as examples of the developmental players we're probably looking at going forward
 
VP89 said:
Right, probably because we were looking at physical players alone for a while.

Which is why I said the technical focus really needs to be in that brief.
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Yes,
It would be a good thing if we could get physical athletic footballers that have good technique.
 
Cassidy said:
Have you seen our players?

Haha no but really there is having technique and then there is having technique at PL pace and intensity of the game. This is why athleticism is important.
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They need to be able to pass to a fellow teammate, that would be a start, be able to run with the ball with control, be able to control a ball when it is passed to them, be able to run onto a ball without knocking it into touch.
 
Pexbo said:
Your inclusion of Bruno there kinda proves a point that technique/brain is as important as physical traits. Bruno has a great engine which is obviously an athletic trait but he’s 5’10’’ and 10 stone and has average pace at best.


If you were signing players on the basis of pace, power and athleticism then Bruno Fernandes does not make it onto any shortlist.
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If we are to sign players mostly based on pace and athleticism then we will end up with more Höjlunds and Dorgus. Bruno's athleticism is underrated.
 
FlyingTrotter said:
I agree with much of what Simonhch says

Picking up on the must haves

GK - A commanding, consistent, capable keeper.
Agreed I read Heaton is staying BUt muSt be a chance they off load both BAYINDIr and Onana and bring in 2

LCB - A left footed, tall, strong, fairly quick and decent passing centre-back.
This seems to be Heaven

RWB - A fast, industrious, technically gifted winger who isn't afraid of assuming defensive responsibilities and has stamina.
Yep agreed - not hearing many names linked - with the outgoings willingness to join might be mkre a problem than money

CM - An industrious and technically gifted midfielder who is equally adept at winning the ball as he is using the ball.
There were links to the lad at Napoli but not sure the Italian league is the right market and suspect with the number of possible exits there is a need for 2 especially if Bruno leaves

Left 10 - A fast, powerful and technical right footed inside left forward.
This seems to be Cunha and if Bruno Eriksen Garnacho all leave could be a need for two

CF - A quick technically gifted centre-forward who is a clinical finisher and has a proven track record at the highest level. Must be a good presser/industrious.
This seems to be either or Mateta or Delap - personally if Rasmus Rashford Sancho Antony are all being sold then we will need two #9 and to develop ObI as a 3rd
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Mostly agree, but I think if we were to get 2 x 10's then Amad could play RWB. I'm also not sure if that's the priority, as I think Dorgu looks better on the right, so maybe a quality LWB would be better.
 
FlyingTrotter said:
I agree with much of what Simonhch says

Picking up on the must haves

GK - A commanding, consistent, capable keeper.
Agreed I read Heaton is staying BUt muSt be a chance they off load both BAYINDIr and Onana and bring in 2

LCB - A left footed, tall, strong, fairly quick and decent passing centre-back.
This seems to be Heaven

RWB - A fast, industrious, technically gifted winger who isn't afraid of assuming defensive responsibilities and has stamina.
Yep agreed - not hearing many names linked - with the outgoings willingness to join might be mkre a problem than money

CM - An industrious and technically gifted midfielder who is equally adept at winning the ball as he is using the ball.
There were links to the lad at Napoli but not sure the Italian league is the right market and suspect with the number of possible exits there is a need for 2 especially if Bruno leaves

Left 10 - A fast, powerful and technical right footed inside left forward.
This seems to be Cunha and if Bruno Eriksen Garnacho all leave could be a need for two

CF - A quick technically gifted centre-forward who is a clinical finisher and has a proven track record at the highest level. Must be a good presser/industrious.
This seems to be either or Mateta or Delap - personally if Rasmus Rashford Sancho Antony are all being sold then we will need two #9 and to develop ObI as a 3rd
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We have been linked to Semenyo for the right side

And Ederson from Atalanta for CM
 
Cassidy said:
We have been linked to Semenyo for the right side

And Ederson from Atalanta for CM
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Ornstein said Semenyo was just a backup in case Cunha didn't materialise.
I'd still love that signing though he's exactly the type of player we need.
 
Hammondo said:
Fair but I would say Bruno lacks a lot more physicality.
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Don't agree. Both Amad and Bruno lack muscle/strength which is why Bruno is a bit wasted in CM.

Amad might be the slightest player in the PL. Deceptively quick but lack overall athleticism.

However, Bruno and Amad are not the reason we underperform. They are top 5 of our players.
 
Cathy Ferguson said:
Not sure about that. He plays in a position that requires explosive pace which he lacks.
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Amad is definitely faster than Bruno and has enough acceleration for his position. Top speed isn't lightning but it's fast enough when combined with his dribbling and technical ability.

Amad is also fairly strong for his size and uses his low centre of gravity well. He's harder to knock off the ball than the likes of Mata, Dan James, Sancho and probably Antony that we've had in the past, and Garnacho in the current squad. Hell, he handles contact better than Hojlund which is quite embarrassing.
 
simonhch said:
Players like Vitinha do it all really. He's superb technically, and while he's not "powerful", he is extremely tenacious, industrious and constantly moving. I love that sort of player. Pace and power are important tools to have, but not every player has to fit that mold. It just has to be a vein that runs through the team, to give it balance. Players like Vitinha, Neves, Modric, Verratti, Barella, who aren't very big but have relentless energy and technical supremacy are the real difference makers. They give you constant passing options, and close down the opposition very quickly. They are all also what I would call "speedy". Might not be the fastest over a 30-40 sprint, but that's fairly irrelevant in 95% of football. They are however some of the quickest players over 5-10 yards, and capable of rapid and sudden changes in direction.

What we have to do is avoid players who are physically unimpressive. Size isn't a predicator of a player's ability to be physically impactful, as we've just discussed; but workrate, acceleration, and the ability to hold off opposing players, as well as close them down, are. You can't have outright slow players, who aren't physically dominant. That's a duo of death. Because they'll just get bullied. Amad for example is pretty quick, and has superb acceleration. His balance, technique and workrate means he's one of the best players we have at receiving under pressure and holding opponents off, as well as one of the best at closing people down and winning possession in the final third. He's also fecking tiny. In contrast, Hojlund is twice his size, and I would wager faster over 30-40 yards - once they get into a full on sprint over distance - yet he is infinitely worse at those parts of the game. So that just bring us back to technique being such a critical factor. In fact, it's the one constant factor you need, coupled with either pace/speed or power. You can have a very technically gifted player but if he's slow and weak, I fear he'll be eaten alive in the PL or only show a fraction of what he's capable.

Cunha is a good example of a player who has technical ability married to pace and power. Mudryk is an example of a player with pace and power, but very limited technical ability. So the pace and power by itself just isn't enough. You could make the same comparison in midfield, between say Valverde and McTominay. Both robust, extremely industrious midfielders, who are strong with and without the ball and decently quick (Valverde is quicker); but only one of them has top class technique, and it elevates him to a much higher level.

In defence I feel that Yoro and De Ligt are two pieces of a three piece puzzle. Maguire is a capable understudy, but we are badly lacking in that third spot. Martinez is aggressive but actually very poor at physical duels when people go at him. He's great at stepping up and intercepting, but when people try to go past him with pace, he's always found wanting, because he's quite small and he's really slow. His technique in progressing play is what makes him potentially useful, but you always feel like he has a major deficiency. He'd be an exceptional player if he either had (a) that old school Italian defensive nouse that makes him nearly impossible to dribble by, it's a mental attribute much more than a physical one, based on timing, positioning, and reading of the game, or (b) he had one outstanding physical attribute, either good recovery pace, or exceptional physical strength. That would be enough to balance him out as a player. As he doesn't have any three of those qualities, he'll always be a question mark in our back line. If you are completing this team to optimal levels, you would bring in a left footed centre back who is fairly tall, physically robust, decently quick, and can pick a pass. It would be a marquee signing, and it would balance the whole back line out.

I am very much of the opinion that we get players who are the right fit for each position, as opposed to getting the best players we can and attempting to fit them in. This is why I would be sad but also generally understanding of a decision to cash in on Bruno if we get a massive offer from SA. Yes, you'd miss his talismanic presence, but I think it's fair to say that as a CM he has certain deficiencies that make him a less than ideal fit - although I think he can do a very good job there - and our system needs (as Amorim would say) 10's who can play like midfielders but run like wingers. Bruno is a goal threat, both in scoring and creation, and if we played two wide players and a striker, or two strikers, I think he's superb at sitting in that hole and running around wherever he wants....arriving late etc. But our 10's need to run into channels, they need to be able to go past people e.g. run like wingers, but also be able to come deep link up play, connect with the midfield. Bruno can realistically only do half that job.

As a rule of thumb, I think it's a bad idea to sell high potential players at just 20 years old. It's just to be expected that they will have deficiencies. They aren't finished players. They need to be given time. However, if we take the case of Garnacho - for example - here is a player that has tons of pace and acceleration, but is technically inconsistent, very weak, and whose decision making is still very naive and raw. The impacts of that on the team are obvious, because when he plays, the burden of responsibility on him to make goal contributions is quite high, and he's just got too many areas of his game that needs development for him to reliably do that just yet. I think he has a lot of the tools to get there (if he has the determination and work ethic to make it a reality), but he's in all likelihood at least a couple years away from starting to become a more finished player. Ideally.....because he isn't some generational, freak talent like Rooney or Yamal, you'd have his minutes managed and he'd be a player who was in the second line of rotation so he can develop properly without such a burden of responsibility. It has always been how we have successfully developed young players. The likes of Scholes, Beckham, Neville etc., didn't become nailed on starters until they were nearly two years older than Garnacho is now (and he's been doing it for a couple of years already). The problem is that Garnacho is apparently throwing his toys out of the pram that he didn't start the final, and about what his role was. For a player who is 20, in a team that's woefully underperformed, and who has seasoned, older, international quality players ahead of him, that's just unacceptable. So if we were to cash in, for 60m plus add-ons, I would happily make an exception and do so.

Mainoo on the flip side is a player who has sat on the bench most of this season - despite having an incredible season last season - and not uttered a word of complaint. Amorim has said that he has had his struggles adapting to the defensive responsibilities of the newly defined CM role, but that he's also been working hard to develop. We've consequently managed his minutes and rotated him in and out. For a player who just turned 20, that's how you do it. He's a player I am desperate to keep a hold of, because I think in two years he will be a special talent.

If we go for players who fit their roles well, then we have some of the pieces in place already, but we also have some massive deficiencies. We can all debate the order of importance, but regardless of the order it comes in, just to get to having a top quality starting XI, the following positions need to be addressed in the following ways (I would also say that all these players need to be battle tested and approaching or in the peak age window (23-26/7)

GK - A commanding, consistent, capable keeper.
LCB - A left footed, tall, strong, fairly quick and decent passing centre-back.
RWB - A fast, industrious, technically gifted winger who isn't afraid of assuming defensive responsibilities and has stamina.
CM - An industrious and technically gifted midfielder who is equally adept at winning the ball as he is using the ball.
Left 10 - A fast, powerful and technical right footed inside left forward.
CF - A quick technically gifted centre-forward who is a clinical finisher and has a proven track record at the highest level. Must be a good presser/industrious.

That's six top level players to fill all the critical holes immediately. With the remaining squad you could then assemble a very good team with a good balance of ages, experience, and current/potential performance levels.
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Well thought out post. Enjoyed reading

I dont think three at the back suits us currently. It comes across as overly defensive. That's more to do with the fact we don't have wingers in the wingbacks positions who push forward and stay high up the pitch. Nor do we use the overlapping CBs idea that Inter Milan use.

You'd think a modern day Matteus Summer who could break through lines from a back three would come back into vogue. That or move DMs into slot into the centre of a back three. Then come out and move into midfield you have an overload or they can go into the DM position allowing both your CMs to go forwards.

In a nutshell, there's so much variation of the back 3 that could be attempted, but ours looks so one dimensional and passive. We just have 3 CBs standing there when we are attacking.

I'm surprised we didn't try (as far as I know) for frimpong. Thought he'd be ideal for RWB position. Fullbacks in the wingbacks positions doesn't work with the way he wants to play.

Anyway be very interesting to see who he brings in and lets go this summer.
 
dinostar77 said:
Well thought out post. Enjoyed reading

I dont think three at the back suits us currently. It comes across as overly defensive. That's more to do with the fact we don't have wingers in the wingbacks positions who push forward and stay high up the pitch. Nor do we use the overlapping CBs idea that Inter Milan use.

You'd think a modern day Matteus Summer who could break through lines from a back three would come back into vogue. That or move DMs into slot into the centre of a back three. Then come out and move into midfield you have an overload or they can go into the DM position allowing both your CMs to go forwards.

In a nutshell, there's so much variation of the back 3 that could be attempted, but ours looks so one dimensional and passive. We just have 3 CBs standing there when we are attacking.

I'm surprised we didn't try (as far as I know) for frimpong. Thought he'd be ideal for RWB position. Fullbacks in the wingbacks positions doesn't work with the way he wants to play.

Anyway be very interesting to see who he brings in and lets go this summer.
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Bring back in the sweeper system (find a Ronnie koeman) or as you say play a DM in the back 3 with remit to wander forward dictating play
 
Rossa said:
Amad is very quick, but he lacks top speed. Garnacho is fast, but he’s not prime Bale, Giggs, Ronaldo or even Vinicius, Nani fast.

Our central defense is slow. Only Yoro has pace. Dorgu is OK, but not blistering. Dalot has great top speed, but he lacks intensity.

Our midfield is very slow. Ugarte is quick enough.

Even our fast players are merely average compared to other players in similar positions.
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Yes we dont have tier 1 speed, but we only had it through Younger Giggs, Ronaldo then Valencia and then when Rashford came through

Now we dont have Rashford we dont have tier 1 or 2 speed

I'm not sure who the solution would be in our formation as we dont play wingers and they are usually the ones with that speed. Probably a wingback but finding a wingback with that speed who would want to come to us I'm not sure theres a solution.
 
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