Hargreaves vs. Carrick, Feadingseagulls vs. Noodle, Chief (Bayern Fan!) vs. Logic

[acnumber9]

Really

1 The return to form of Ryan Giggs
2. Saha becoming a designated starter from the season's begining
3. Ronaldo's coming of age
4. Evra and Vidic settling down
5. Rio and Vidic partnership

Where not changes to the team?

That's funny because when somebody said the maturing of our side was the reason for us romping the group stages in the Champions league this season you dismissed it as nonsense and attributed it to Mr Hargreaves. That was before you were exposed as a liar of course.

 

[Red Indian Chief Torn Rubber]

It's roughly a page back, you're a big boy I'm sure you can find it. Not what was that you were saying about being childish?

You are yellow and a chicken. I'm not gonna do your fecking work for you! If you are man re-post it. After all it's not me claiming I can't answer the damn thing. I refuse to answer it then because I thought it stupid.
But you claim that means I can't answer it. So let's prove it once and for all. Put up or shut up. Yellow man

 

[acnumber9]

You are yellow and a chicken. I'm not gonna do your fecking work for you! If you are man re-post it. After all it's not me claiming I can't answer the damn thing. I refuse to answer it then because I thought it stupid.
But you claim that means I can't answer it. So let's prove it once and for all. Put up or shut up. Yellow man

Brilliant.

 

[Nucks]

That's funny because when somebody said the maturing of our side was the reason for us romping the group stages in the Champions league this season you dismissed it as nonsense and attributed it to Mr Hargreaves. That was before you were exposed as a liar of course.

The side matured last year. Shouldn't we have romped the group stage last year then too?

Oh wait we didn't.

So basically you are:

Liar liar pants on fire hanging from a telephone wire

 

[Red Indian Chief Torn Rubber]

Show me where I said that then.

In this thread. The First post on Page 86. Look it up. Also page 84, the third post.

Explain to me then how you can be responsible for defending but not be responsible for goals not being conceded.

Rather you explain it. Because as far as I know, in football the defence and the keeper are responsible for defending. So they are directly responsible for stopping goal. To you however that is nonsense

Can you also explain to me how Wes Brown can mark two people at the same time?

Which two people? He was marking nobody and the ball landed infront of him. Yet he still managed to let Fabregas get to it first.

 

[Sam]

What is hard to understand is you claiming trying to now assign equal blame to when back then when you posted Hargreaves was the one you marked with the lions share of blame.

FYI , it's Brown's ball watching that cost us the goal. Nothing else.

Bullshit.

On both counts.

 

[acnumber9]

In this thread. The First post on Page 86. Look it up. Also page 84, the third post.

Rather you explain it. Because as far as I know, in football the defence and the keeper are responsible for defending. So they are directly responsible for stopping goal. To you however that is nonsense

Which two people? He was marking nobody and the ball landed infront of him. Yet he still managed to let Fabregas get to it first.

So you are saying that it is the job of the defence and keeper alone to defend.

 

[Nucks]

Calm down boys...

Back to the topic - has Hargreaves justified his salary, let alone his transfer fee?

That isn't a fair question. How can anyone really justify an 18 million price tag unless they score 30+ a season?

 

[Red Indian Chief Torn Rubber]

Bullshit.

On both counts.

Which shows how stupid you are. On both counts. You clearly laid the majority of the blame at Hargreaves' feet.

Secondly, If Brown got to the ball before Fabregas, as he should have. No goal would have been conceded. It's not even debatable.

 

[acnumber9]

In this thread. The First post on Page 86. Look it up. Also page 84, the third post.

Rather you explain it. Because as far as I know, in football the defence and the keeper are responsible for defending. So they are directly responsible for stopping goal. To you however that is nonsense

Which two people? He was marking nobody and the ball landed infront of him. Yet he still managed to let Fabregas get to it first.

The post where I qouted you saying it. I only put what you said in bold. My words were describing what you said as nonsense. Besides, that is not what I was asking you to show me where I said it I was talking about this..

 

[acnumber9]

Rather you were suing your own logic. The logic that led you to believe I said only defenders and the keeper defend. The same logic that tells you because Hargreaves goes after Adebayor, it suddenly becomes his job to have been marking him all along. .

No you're not. You're instead pointing out yours. Your post above on applies if I had said defender and the keeper are the only ones who defend. I instead I said the responsibility for stopping goals is theirs alone. Wes Brown's failure to get the ball before Fabregas, proved it all the more. Without that error. There wouldn't have been an Arsenal goal. Without Vidic being AWOL, Adebayor's run would never have been dangerous. And no one would be discussing how Hargreaves allegedly "Let go his man"

That bit

 

[Red Indian Chief Torn Rubber]

So you are saying that it is the job of the defence and keeper alone to defend.

You've done it again. I said its their responsibility to stop goals. There's and theirs alone. Stopping goals and defending are not the same thing. Or we would say strikers like Rooney are responsible for stopping goals, when they defend from the front line.

 

[Sam]

Which shows how stupid you are. On both counts. You clearly laid the majority of the blame at Hargreaves' feet.

Secondly, If Brown got to the ball before Fabregas, as he should have. No goal would have been conceded. It's not even debatable.

I lay the blame at a few people's doors, one of those happens to be Hargreaves.

Now, as we are in the 'Hargreaves thread', I discussed, at length, what he did wrong, if you want to create a thread blaming Brown or/and Vidic, I'll be happy to contribute.

 

[Red Indian Chief Torn Rubber]

The post where I qouted you saying it. I only put what you said in bold. My words were describing what you said as nonsense. Besides, that is not what I was asking you to show me where I said it I was talking about this..

No. That post was all about what you fabricated. Which was the notion that I had suggested defenders and Keeper are the only one supposed to defend. That thing you highlighted shows that logic of yours clearly. For you stopping goals = defending. so it doesn't matter where you play on pitch your a responsible for stopping goals. Thus you are the type who blame Hargreaves for a goal Brown and Vidic where clearly at fault for on top of being the type to that would blame Rooney and Anderson for the incident that led to Pompey's penalty in the fA cup.

 

[ninja_alan]

That isn't a fair question. How can anyone really justify an 18 million price tag unless they score 30+ a season?

Rio has justified his price tag and he costed more then Hargreaves. I wouldn't say that Hargreaves has justified the price tag yet, but i think he will do it when he's been here a bit longer.

 

[acnumber9]

In this thread. The First post on Page 86. Look it up. Also page 84, the third post.

Rather you explain it. Because as far as I know, in football the defence and the keeper are responsible for defending. So they are directly responsible for stopping goal. To you however that is nonsense

Which two people? He was marking nobody and the ball landed infront of him. Yet he still managed to let Fabregas get to it first.

I've watched it again and you're right. Wes Brown was marking nobody. You are wrong when you say the ball dropped in front of him though. He was nowhere near it. The mistake he made was in not anticipating where the ball might fall.

By the way the move starts with Hargreaves closing down Fabregas before chasing after the ball (which he does often) leaving Fabregas a free run into the penalty box. It was not Wes Brown's job to track his run.

 

[ralphie88]

Rather you have shown just how thoughtless and crass you are. Those comedians made fun of Hitler. Just like if you came out with that Himmler thing, you'd be making fun of Himmler.
Those comedian made fun of Hitler and co.

However you did none of that. You equated people's support for Hargreaves as behaving like Hitler. You infact called them Hitler. By the mere fact you can dare to equate something as trivial as being a supporter of a footballer, to what Hitler was, stood for and how he behaved, means you don't see what all the fuss was about Hitler. In your book he was just a mere joke. Meaning what he did to people like the Jews must have been a fecking joke to you too. Meaning you lack respect for them or what the went through. It aint rocket science. If that not what you intend it hight time you appolgised or back tracked on your actions. Other wise you just prove all the more what a racist scum you are.

"Racist scum". You ever been to Birkenhau mate? You should, it would open your juvenile eyes.

I was taking the piss out of your position (and IK and Nucks) in this argument. It was a joke. Only you got all upset about it and started throwing your toys out of the pram.

A bit like this one in fact - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8nh7gm4jj6c

So what about the joke about chicken Himmler then? A man who has the blood of millions of innocent people on his hands? Is that not trivialising?

 

[Red Indian Chief Torn Rubber]

I lay the blame at a few people's doors, one of those happens to be Hargreaves.

Now, as we are in the 'Hargreaves thread', I discussed, at length, what he did wrong, if you want to create a thread blaming Brown or/and Vidic, I'll be happy to contribute.

Rather I'd prefer you to admit what you did. It wouldn't kill you. Or ruin you

 

[Wonder Pigeon]

You're all going to end up eating your own faces.

 

[acnumber9]

No. That post was all about what you fabricated. Which was the notion that I had suggested defenders and Keeper are the only one supposed to defend. That thing you highlighted shows that logic of yours clearly. For you stopping goals = defending. so it doesn't matter where you play on pitch your a responsible for stopping goals. Thus you are the type who blame Hargreaves for a goal Brown and Vidic where clearly at fault for on top of being the type to that would blame Rooney and Anderson for the incident that led to Pompey's penalty in the fA cup.

Where did I blame Hargeraves for it? Did I not say that if Adebayor was the danger which at the time he was then he was right to track him?

It wasn't Anderson's fault but it certainly was Rooney's, illustrating my point that it's not just defenders who are responsible for stopping goals. Who would you pin the blame on the Portsmouth penalty for? Vidic and Ferdinand must've been responsible, they're defenders after all.

 

[Red Indian Chief Torn Rubber]

"Racist scum". You ever been to Birkenhau mate? You should, it would open your juvenile eyes.

I was taking the piss out of your position (and IK and Nucks) in this argument. It was a joke.[ /quote] A fecking poor one at that. In severely bad taste Instead of realizing that all you are doing is justifying a classless act all the more.

 

[peterstorey]

Some of them have already eaten their own brains.

 

[acnumber9]

No. That post was all about what you fabricated. Which was the notion that I had suggested defenders and Keeper are the only one supposed to defend. That thing you highlighted shows that logic of yours clearly. For you stopping goals = defending. so it doesn't matter where you play on pitch your a responsible for stopping goals. Thus you are the type who blame Hargreaves for a goal Brown and Vidic where clearly at fault for on top of being the type to that would blame Rooney and Anderson for the incident that led to Pompey's penalty in the fA cup.

I quoted you word for word. I merely put in bold the words YOU wrote. How exactly have I fabricated it? You have said time abnd again that only defenders and keepers are responsible for goals being stopped. What else is defending about if it's not stopping goals?

 

[ralphie88]

Chief, if Ralphie is racist, is John Cleese Racist ?

Of course, he's trivilising Hitler's genocide and in doing so making fun of the Jews. Swivel-eyed loon that he is.

Or alternatively Two-Teams might just not have developed the critical skills necessary to function in debates. He'll learn it when he leaves home I suspect.

 

[acnumber9]

The side matured last year. Shouldn't we have romped the group stage last year then too?

Oh wait we didn't.

So basically you are:

Liar liar pants on fire hanging from a telephone wire

It has matured even more so this season. I haven't resorted to fabricating a players participation in matches to try and prove my points though.

 

[Red Indian Chief Torn Rubber]

I quoted you word for word. I merely put in bold the words YOU wrote. How exactly have I fabricated it?

You fabricated a new meaning to what I said. I said stopping goals. You claim I said defending. It contrast's like ebony and ivory on a keyboard.

You have said time abnd again that only defenders and keepers are responsible for goals being stopped. What else is defending about if it's not stopping goals?

So according to you
When a defensive midfielder close space down in midfield he has stopped a goal?

When a striker closes down space he has stopped a goal?

When a winger tracks back with a fullback he has stopped a goal?

 

[acnumber9]

You've done it again. I said its their responsibility to stop goals. There's and theirs alone. Stopping goals and defending are not the same thing. Or we would say strikers like Rooney are responsible for stopping goals, when they defend from the front line.

And I asked a question regarding it and you have invented a way of not answering it. Which is strange because you haven't got previous for making things up............

 

[ralphie88]

A fecking poor one at that. In severely bad taste Instead of realizing that all you are doing is justifying a classless act all the more.

People have been making jokes about the Nazis for over 50-fecking years mate, including Jewish comedians. And one of the ways they've done it is by trivialising what they did (eg by comparing your wife's cooking to a Nazi atrocity). Doesn't make them racists.

I've spelled out what racism is for you and asked you to justify your position in accusing me of being "racist", "racist scum" and being someone who views Jews as "subhuman" - you have failed to do this. If you were of any significance whatsoever to real life I would be asking the mods for your fecking IP address at this moment because frankly that's libel pal.

 

[Red Indian Chief Torn Rubber]

Where did I blame Hargeraves for it?

I said you were the type who would do that. Besides, wasn't it you who famously said:

" I was using your twisted logic that Adebayor wasn't his man so shouldn't have been tracking him. That's the defence's job after all."

meaning you were saying the opposite to what I had said at the time?

Did I not say that if Adebayor was the danger which at the time he was then he was right to track him?

Yeah. Yet still claim Hargreaves was responsible for the goal.

It wasn't Anderson's fault but it certainly was Rooney's, illustrating my point that it's not just defenders who are responsible for stopping goals. Who would you pin the blame on the Portsmouth penalty for? Vidic and Ferdinand must've been responsible, they're defenders after all.

How can it be Rooney's fault when he has no business being the last line of defence before the keeper? Where were Rio, Vidic and Carrick? Two center backs who are supposed to mark strikers, and a defensive midfielder who is supposed to prevent counter attacks?

 

[acnumber9]

You fabricated a new meaning to what I said. I said stopping goals. You claim I said defending. It contrast's like ebony and ivory on a keyboard.



So according to you
When a defensive midfielder close space down in midfield he has stopped a goal?

When a striker closes down space he has stopped a goal?

When a winger tracks back with a fullback he has stopped a goal?

They are all things that contribute to stopping goals. Without a team doing those things they would concede goals aplenty. The very point I was making right back at the start. That is why the responsibility for stopping goals cannot just be for the defence alone.

I have given you scenarios that prove that every player has defensive responsibility at some point in a game, the defensive midfielder especially, whether that bve Owen Hargreaves, Michael Carrick or Darren Fletcher. You have chosen to ignore them.

Defending and stopping goals are the same thing.

 

[Red Indian Chief Torn Rubber]

I've watched it again and you're right. Wes Brown was marking nobody. You are wrong when you say the ball dropped in front of him though. He was nowhere near it. The mistake he made was in not anticipating where the ball might fall.

I said the ball falls infront of him. I never said near him. He sees at the same time as Fabregas. He just reacts far slower. which precipitates the goal.

By the way the move starts with Hargreaves closing down Fabregas before chasing after the ball (which he does often) leaving Fabregas a free run into the penalty box. It was not Wes Brown's job to track his run.

So you expected him to leave Adebayor a free run at goal and stick to Fabregas? He wasn't right to make the effort to chase after him? even when it wasn't his job, but it was a necessity?

 

[acnumber9]

Where did I blame Hargeraves for it? Did I not say that if Adebayor was the danger which at the time he was then he was right to track him?

How can it be Rooney's fault when he has no business being the last line of defence before the keeper? Where were Rio, Vidic and Carrick? Two center backs who are supposed to mark strikers, and a defensive midfielder who is supposed to prevent counter attacks?

They were sent up for the set piece that we had. That is the scenario I gave you to prove that at different times in a match different players have different responsibilities. You chose to ignore it. You're proving to be quite good at that.

Perhaps Rooney and Anderson should not have been the one's left to deal with any potential counter attacks. That was the mistake of the management. Once they were chosen to do that it was their responsibility to defend and that of Vidic et al to attack.

It's funny how you mention Carrick's name about defending it though.

 

[ralphie88]

Two-Teams Insult Update

Fool
Immature
Juvenile
Childish
Racist
Ignorant
Blind
Idiot
Buffoon
Mad
Stupid
Liar
Chicken
Yellow
Yellow Man

And who says the art of mature debating is dead?

 

[Instant Karma]

I've spelled out what racism is for you and asked you to justify your position in accusing me of being "racist", "racist scum" and being someone who views Jews as "subhuman" - you have failed to do this. If you were of any significance whatsoever to real life I would be asking the mods for your fecking IP address at this moment because frankly that's libel pal.

You cant sue someone for tarnishing your e-reputation.

 

[Red Indian Chief Torn Rubber]

Show me where I claimed that.

Show yourself. No one else apart from you came up with the notion that defenders and the keeper are the only ones who defend in a team.

 

[acnumber9]

I said the ball falls infront of him. I never said near him. He sees at the same time as Fabregas. He just reacts far slower. which precipitates the goal.

He hadn't a hope in hell of getting to the ball before Fabregas put it in the net. The mistake he made was not anticipating it.

So you expected him to leave Adebayor a free run at goal and stick to Fabregas? He wasn't right to make the effort to chase after him? even when it wasn't his job, but it was a necessity?

I have said twice already that he made the right decision. You have chosen to ignore that. Merely stating why some people may think it was his fault. Hargreaves made the run towards the ball when Adebayor was still beside Vidic. He was just as guilty of letting his man go as Vidic was. Having watched the video for another time Ferdinand should've been the man who picked up Fabregas in the box but he was drawn to the line due to Van der Sar's rush of blood to the head. For me the most of the blame lies with VDS. Every single one of them could've done better though.

..

 

[acnumber9]

Show yourself. No one else apart from you came up with the notion that defenders and the keeper are the only ones who defend in a team.

No, you did. You can't show where I said it because I didn't say it. What reason are you going to give for not finding it this time, is it because it was too stupid or is it because I'm a chicken and yellow. Maybe it'll be a new one this time. Or perhaps I'll just get the standard liar.

 

[lem8sh]

Which shows how stupid you are. On both counts. You clearly laid the majority of the blame at Hargreaves' feet.

Secondly, If Brown got to the ball before Fabregas, as he should have. No goal would have been conceded. It's not even debatable.

If Hargreaves tracked Adebayor, as he should have. No goal would have been conceded. It's not even debatable.

 

[ralphie88]

You cant sue someone for tarnishing your e-reputation.

Yeah, and of course no-one who posts or visits this site knows me personally and knows what username I post under, making this site completely free from obligation regarding the law of defamation.... oh no, hang on a minute...

 

[Sam]

Rather I'd prefer you to admit what you did. It wouldn't kill you. Or ruin you

I'm not going to admit to something I didn't do.

Of course, he's trivilising Hitler's genocide and in doing so making fun of the Jews. Swivel-eyed loon that he is.

Or alternatively Two-Teams might just not have developed the critical skills necessary to function in debates. He'll learn it when he leaves home I suspect.

I love the way he's has just conveniently ignored my question.