This thread belongs in middle earth.
Theres certainly a lot coming from people rings in here.
Theres certainly a lot coming from people rings in here.
Hargreaves vs. Carrick, Feadingseagulls vs. Noodle, Chief (Bayern Fan!) vs. Logic
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik @Rood and Imran @Annihilate Now! start with the good news by celebrating Manchester United Women's emphatic FA Cup win over Spurs at Wembley and the future of manager Marc Skinner.
Then it's the bad news and the ever worsening form of our Men with losses to Arsenal and Palace.
Finally the main debate - ETH Out now or keep him until the end of the season - if not longer. Are you Team Nik or Team Imran?
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Never buy black socks in a lay person's shop. They'll shaft you every time.
So you're a racist too now father? Tell me, what would you be wanting to get into that kind of thing for?
Good calls on the writers of Father Ted and Fawlty Towers. Fancy me forgetting those? Racists the lot of em!
Nail on head.
Statistics are like bikinis. What they conceal is more important than what they show.
For instance, these statistics you quote to show that Carrick is not very good. Unfortunately, when watching United this season, it is clear that we are a much better team when Carrick is playing.
The same point could be made about Rooney. Statistically, he looks like he is having a poor season. In reality, United are much more formidable when he is playing, because he brings so much to the team.
How the hell would we know?I've previously posted that Carrick 'was' our in form midfielder and also that he was unlucky to not start against Lyon away.
Doesn't make him our best midfielder this season though or even a great midfielder like most Ihni binni dimi diniwiny anitaime claim. He is competent and he was in form around the time we were played Arsenal in the cup. After that he was average against Lyon at home and has been dropped for 3 games in a row. I am not so sure that he is currently in as good a form as he was a month ago.
And the passing stats and no. of passes attempted/completed can be found at most sites if you googleHargreaves has 85% completion rate. He keeps it simple but to say he keeps giving the ball away is silly.
Blatant misrepesentation there. I have said they contribute to the team not conceding. Not as much as defenders do but it is still obviously the job of the rest of the team, especially the midfielders, to help the defence when needed.
You have said that the job of stopping goals is that of the defence alone. The evidence is there for all to see.
I see you're still refusing to answer the question I asked you. Maybe you were busy trying to find that qouote where somebody said strikers get paid to stop goals.
Show me where I claimed that.
It is not blatantly obvious and is extremely debatable. I gave you an example of Ferdinand, Vidic et al going forward for a set peice against Portsmouth leacving Rooney and Anderson to defend. Who's responsibility is it there to score goals and who's is it to try and stop goals from being scored aginst us?
Yet there's evidence proving that you did.
Defensive midfielder
DEFENSIVE midfielder
surely they are in the team with an eye to being responsible to stopping the conceded goals?
what's the point of them otherwise?
they can't attack but they aren't responsible for defending either?
what an awesome job description.
chief, sam#1 is saying... HARGRAEVES SHOULD HAVE DONE MUCH BETTER THAN LETTING ADEBAYOR RUN FREE
his defensive midfielder instincts should have meant he would have anticipated that danger and stayed with him.
Fact is there is noone else near adebayor at that stage (nor is there another arsenal player close to hargraeves), so in that situation it WAS hargraeves' job to mark him.
If you are playing a game of football and you are a midfielder and you are tracking back and find yourself marking a striker, do you juts let them run off as 'it's a defenders job to mark a striker?'
no. To do that is as silly as expecting strict adherence to a formation where players don't ever interchange positions.
is that so hard to understand?
DEFENSIVE midfielder
surely they are in the team with an eye to being responsible to stopping the conceded goals?
what's the point of them otherwise?
they can't attack but they aren't responsible for defending either?
what an awesome job description.
chief, sam#1 is saying... HARGRAEVES SHOULD HAVE DONE MUCH BETTER THAN LETTING ADEBAYOR RUN FREE
his defensive midfielder instincts should have meant he would have anticipated that danger and stayed with him.
Fact is there is noone else near adebayor at that stage (nor is there another arsenal player close to hargraeves), so in that situation it WAS hargraeves' job to mark him.
If you are playing a game of football and you are a midfielder and you are tracking back and find yourself marking a striker, do you juts let them run off as 'it's a defenders job to mark a striker?'
no. To do that is as silly as expecting strict adherence to a formation where players don't ever interchange positions.
is that so hard to understand?
Apparently yes, it is.
You wouldn't think so, would you ?
I notice Carrick was left out of the England squad today, while Hargreaves was included. So that would mean Capello agrees with...I lost track. What were we arguing about again?
Is it Rafa? He's crap.
It just reaffirms something that many of us have being saying all along.
That Hargreaves fills a roll that Carrick doesn't.
Hargreaves isn't competing with Carrick for a spot on the team. Carricks competition is from guys like Lampard and Gerrard.
Unless you meant role. Well supposedly he does, albeit not entirely effectively at the moment. Especially seeing as Fletcher did such a sterling job with his chances this season so far.
I'm hungry now.?
Unless you meant role. Well supposedly he does, albeit not entirely effectively at the moment. Especially seeing as Fletcher did such a sterling job with his chances this season so far.
And yes I meant role.
Fletcher was pretty solid yesterday wasn't he
Those look more like turnovers than rolls. Are you saying Hargreaves turns the ball over too much?
Fletcher was more solid than Hargreaves has been all season.I'm hungry now.
And yes I meant role.
Fletcher was pretty solid yesterday wasn't he
Perhaps Hargreaves was included in the England squad because he takes freekicks for England now and again. For United it's a bit different when you have Ronaldo - despite the comments Hargreaves made to the press.
If Carrick isnt competing for the same place as Hargreaves then neither is Gareth Barry - yet he's still been picked ahead of him time and again.
This thread is absurd in length and subject matter but who gives a feck, reckon HARGO will score another goal before the end of the season
Fletcher scores two goals and its made his season.
People are so overboard in their Hargreaves bashing it's hard to take anything you say seriously.
Hargreaves also made no comments to the press about Ronaldo. He was talking to David James about Ronaldo's free kicks. He said most of them go over or something to that effect. They do.
In that moment Hargreaves and Ronaldo were not teammates. Hargreaves and James were talking shop. What filtered to the press was done so by James.
Just like in the moment when Ronaldo lobbied to get Rooney sent off. They were not teammates.
Hargreaves : I'm English
That means one muppet out of this thread then.Hargreaves said:
Instant Karma Closet Gooner said:
If you are going to make up quotes, we can play this game all day. You will look like the biggest fool since you hate the best player in the world currently - Ronaldo.
Dippersripper said:
I didn't make up the hargreaves quote. I never said Ronaldo or Nani or Anderson are shit, but you called Rooney El Blanco Heskey, and had a dig at every one of our English players whenever you had a chance. So, there is a very big chance that you'll hate hargreaves when you find out he is English.
You have taken a dig at Ronaldo every chance and even when there hasnt been a chance because you feel pissed off that he has become one of the best players in the world and Rooney has remained in the great talent bracket.
The El Blanco Heskey comment was tongue in cheek and in a match rating thread. Most caftards gave him a worser rating than I did and said he was shite on that day. Does it mean he is a shite player ? Comparing performances on a day does not mean comparing players. Even Maradona can have a poor day.
Once again, you prove that you dont have the sense to post on anything about football but would rather talk about the poster.
Its not in a match rating thread, you called him heskey in a couple of threads. Search for El Blanco heskey in google and your thread come up in the first page.
Show me the proof that I hate Ronaldo. All I said was I like our other first teamers more than Ronaldo and you lot are making this up. Why do you have a problem if I like Fletcher or Giggs or Scholes or Rooney more than Ronaldo?
Calm down boys...
Back to the topic - has Hargreaves justified his salary, let alone his transfer fee?
Back to the topic - has Hargreaves justified his salary, let alone his transfer fee?
No, neither did Carrick or Nani or Anderson yet. When you pay 18 million for a player, you expect him to perform at the highest level for years, not just feck off after one great season. The price tag will be justified by the time he retires.
He does not determine his transfer fee and no one knows what his salary actually is. If he is offered another contract in 3 years time, SAF probably feels that he has justified it. If he gets shipped out for a few million, he has been a waste of money.
So lets wait and see.
I quite simply dont have a problem. Everyone will have their favorites towards whom they are possibly less critical. The only problem I have is that my criticism is deemed as hatred when its fine to take a pop at the foreign players.
One trick pony, diver, selfish, no end product, cant cross the ball, winker, 'worser than Lennon', 'shouldnt be allowed near a free kick' are all common when its against a foreigner. And he is now the best player in the world ? You could have never guessed based on how caftards rated him just a couple of seasons ago.
And I dont think anyone on here actually hates a United player. I have posted this before but somehow love-hate and extreme views seem to be the only thing that caftards understand - 'hargreaves is shite and no good at football' is the new one
Carricks' already had a great season last year, Anderson and Nani were bought in for thier potential. It seems they look the real deal...
Considering Hargreaves age and experience he should have given us a lot more in his first season. If he's injured, he should be honest and come back when fully fit. Injuries are unfortunate part of football, he would not have been blamed.
He is just 6 months older than Carrick right ? From a different league and after a long injury lay off with no pre-season. This season has also been stop start with different midfield partners. Even Essien/Mascherano didnt look that good in their first seasons and they are more talented.
He's certainly not playing for free...
I'm waiting with great anticipation for the player you guys keep telling me had been brilliant at Bayern, to turn up at United.
Carrick had an immediate impact, and helped us to a great season last year. I have never claimed Carrick is a World beater, there are plenty better around than him...
And I have never claimed that Hargreaves is a world beater or that we will win the CL with him. Just that he gives us a better chance as he brings different abilities to the team.
But out here, if you take a side, you are either a Hargreaves lover or Hargreaves hater, a Carrick lover or Carrick hater. Everything is black or white with no shades of gray.
I'm not sure about the haters thing, but I'm pretty fecking sure that Carrick does a lot more than playing square or long balls.
And Hargreaves does a lot more than just run around aimlessly.
I would like to think that everyone knows that too but since they are already in the Hargreaves hater/lover category, they tend to go all out for or against I guess.
I doubt anyone has a problem if Hargreaves brings the qualities you talk about to the team. The debate here is, he has so far not shown any glimpses of his supposed qualities - which some have interpreted as hatred for Hargreaves or have bought Carrick into the equation.
Well...if we all have just reasonable arguments, it will end after 5 posts and be boring
Lets get this thread to a 100 pages. The Anderson thread is the place to be on the caf now.
Anderson vs Hargreaves - who will be the quickest to 100 pages ? Place your bets.
Lets get this thread to a 100 pages. The Anderson thread is the place to be on the caf now.
Anderson vs Hargreaves - who will be the quickest to 100 pages ? Place your bets.
When was that then in a United shirt?
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