Hargreaves vs. Carrick, Feadingseagulls vs. Noodle, Chief (Bayern Fan!) vs. Logic

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This thread belongs in middle earth.

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Theres certainly a lot coming from people rings in here.
 
People keep telling me he's quick but frankly he doesn't look quick to me. No quicker than Carrick I would say on what I've seen. If aggressive means chasing the ball, then yes I've seen him do that for United. Usually to no great effect. I'm prepared to wait til next season before I pass judgement though - as I've said before, I think he's not fully fit and needs a good preseason.

Nail on head.
 
13 games (3 goals + 7 assists) >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 23 games (1 goal + 1 assist)

Statistics are like bikinis. What they conceal is more important than what they show.

For instance, these statistics you quote to show that Carrick is not very good. Unfortunately, when watching United this season, it is clear that we are a much better team when Carrick is playing.

The same point could be made about Rooney. Statistically, he looks like he is having a poor season. In reality, United are much more formidable when he is playing, because he brings so much to the team.
 
I've previously posted that Carrick 'was' our in form midfielder and also that he was unlucky to not start against Lyon away.

Doesn't make him our best midfielder this season though or even a great midfielder like most Ihni binni dimi diniwiny anitaime claim. He is competent and he was in form around the time we were played Arsenal in the cup. After that he was average against Lyon at home and has been dropped for 3 games in a row. I am not so sure that he is currently in as good a form as he was a month ago.

And the passing stats and no. of passes attempted/completed can be found at most sites if you google ;) Hargreaves has 85% completion rate. He keeps it simple but to say he keeps giving the ball away is silly.

How the hell would we know?
 
No you haven't. If you did you would attributing your own bullshit to me. I haven't said any where the keeper and his defence defend alone. I just said the responsibility of stopping goals lies solely with them. Which is a blatantly obvious fact and isnt' even debatable. Which you keep calling nonsense. Meaning you believe striker and midfielders have the responsible for stopping goals. Not defenders.

Who, apart from you, claimed teams do that?

What is complete nonsense is you attributing that shit to me. Even when I've clearly pointed out how it wasn't what I said. But I'm beginning to think you are the type who would start a fight in an empty room. Launching a point of dispute where one never existed

Blatant misrepesentation there. I have said they contribute to the team not conceding. Not as much as defenders do but it is still obviously the job of the rest of the team, especially the midfielders, to help the defence when needed.

You have said that the job of stopping goals is that of the defence alone. The evidence is there for all to see.

I see you're still refusing to answer the question I asked you. Maybe you were busy trying to find that qouote where somebody said strikers get paid to stop goals.
 
No you haven't. If you did you would attributing your own bullshit to me. I haven't said any where the keeper and his defence defend alone. I just said the responsibility of stopping goals lies solely with them. Which is a blatantly obvious fact and isnt' even debatable. Which you keep calling nonsense. Meaning you believe striker and midfielders have the responsible for stopping goals. Not defenders.

Who, apart from you, claimed teams do that?

What is complete nonsense is you attributing that shit to me. Even when I've clearly pointed out how it wasn't what I said. But I'm beginning to think you are the type who would start a fight in an empty room. Launching a point of dispute where one never existed


Show me where I claimed that.
 
No you haven't. If you did you would attributing your own bullshit to me. I haven't said any where the keeper and his defence defend alone. I just said the responsibility of stopping goals lies solely with them. Which is a blatantly obvious fact and isnt' even debatable. Which you keep calling nonsense. Meaning you believe striker and midfielders have the responsible for stopping goals. Not defenders.

Who, apart from you, claimed teams do that?

What is complete nonsense is you attributing that shit to me. Even when I've clearly pointed out how it wasn't what I said. But I'm beginning to think you are the type who would start a fight in an empty room. Launching a point of dispute where one never existed

It is not blatantly obvious and is extremely debatable. I gave you an example of Ferdinand, Vidic et al going forward for a set peice against Portsmouth leacving Rooney and Anderson to defend. Who's responsibility is it there to score goals and who's is it to try and stop goals from being scored aginst us?

Yet there's evidence proving that you did.
 
Defensive midfielder

DEFENSIVE midfielder

surely they are in the team with an eye to being responsible to stopping the conceded goals?

what's the point of them otherwise?
they can't attack but they aren't responsible for defending either?

what an awesome job description.


chief, sam#1 is saying... HARGRAEVES SHOULD HAVE DONE MUCH BETTER THAN LETTING ADEBAYOR RUN FREE

his defensive midfielder instincts should have meant he would have anticipated that danger and stayed with him.
Fact is there is noone else near adebayor at that stage (nor is there another arsenal player close to hargraeves), so in that situation it WAS hargraeves' job to mark him.

If you are playing a game of football and you are a midfielder and you are tracking back and find yourself marking a striker, do you juts let them run off as 'it's a defenders job to mark a striker?'
no. To do that is as silly as expecting strict adherence to a formation where players don't ever interchange positions.


is that so hard to understand?
 
You wouldn't think so, would you ?
I notice Carrick was left out of the England squad today, while Hargreaves was included. So that would mean Capello agrees with...I lost track. What were we arguing about again?

Is it Rafa? He's crap.
 
I notice Carrick was left out of the England squad today, while Hargreaves was included. So that would mean Capello agrees with...I lost track. What were we arguing about again?

Is it Rafa? He's crap.

It just reaffirms something that many of us have being saying all along.

That Hargreaves fills a roll that Carrick doesn't.

Hargreaves isn't competing with Carrick for a spot on the team. Carricks competition is from guys like Lampard and Gerrard.
 
It just reaffirms something that many of us have being saying all along.

That Hargreaves fills a roll that Carrick doesn't.

Hargreaves isn't competing with Carrick for a spot on the team. Carricks competition is from guys like Lampard and Gerrard.

pasties3.jpg
?

Unless you meant role. Well supposedly he does, albeit not entirely effectively at the moment. Especially seeing as Fletcher did such a sterling job with his chances this season so far.
 
pasties3.jpg
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Unless you meant role. Well supposedly he does, albeit not entirely effectively at the moment. Especially seeing as Fletcher did such a sterling job with his chances this season so far.

I'm hungry now.

And yes I meant role.

Fletcher was pretty solid yesterday wasn't he ;)
 
Those look more like turnovers than rolls. Are you saying Hargreaves turns the ball over too much?
 
I'm hungry now.

And yes I meant role.

Fletcher was pretty solid yesterday wasn't he ;)

Fletcher was more solid than Hargreaves has been all season.

Perhaps Hargreaves was included in the England squad because he takes freekicks for England now and again. For United it's a bit different when you have Ronaldo - despite the comments Hargreaves made to the press.

If Carrick isnt competing for the same place as Hargreaves then neither is Gareth Barry - yet he's still been picked ahead of him time and again.
 
This thread is absurd in length and subject matter but who gives a feck, reckon HARGO will score another goal before the end of the season
 
Fletcher was more solid than Hargreaves has been all season.

Perhaps Hargreaves was included in the England squad because he takes freekicks for England now and again. For United it's a bit different when you have Ronaldo - despite the comments Hargreaves made to the press.

If Carrick isnt competing for the same place as Hargreaves then neither is Gareth Barry - yet he's still been picked ahead of him time and again.

Fletcher scores two goals and its made his season.

People are so overboard in their Hargreaves bashing it's hard to take anything you say seriously.

Hargreaves also made no comments to the press about Ronaldo. He was talking to David James about Ronaldo's free kicks. He said most of them go over or something to that effect. They do.

In that moment Hargreaves and Ronaldo were not teammates. Hargreaves and James were talking shop. What filtered to the press was done so by James.

Just like in the moment when Ronaldo lobbied to get Rooney sent off. They were not teammates.
 
Hargreaves : I'm English

Hargreaves said:
When asked how English he is, Hargreaves said his upbringing made him English.

"I'm very English, to be honest ... I was raised in Canada, but brought up in an English background," he said.

That means one muppet out of this thread then.

Instant Karma Closet Gooner said:
Hargreaves is overrated anyway. He is El Blanco Sissoko. feck Hargreaves. Sign Veloso.
 
That means one muppet out of this thread then.

If you are going to make up quotes, we can play this game all day. You will look like the biggest fool since you hate the best player in the world currently - Ronaldo.

Dippersripper said:
Ronaldo, Anderson and Nani are shit. feck them. Lets sell them and sign English players like Downing, Nolan and Pennant. We will have an English core and we can play the proper British way with crosses into the box
 
If you are going to make up quotes, we can play this game all day. You will look like the biggest fool since you hate the best player in the world currently - Ronaldo.

I didn't make up the hargreaves quote. I never said Ronaldo or Nani or Anderson are shit, but you called Rooney El Blanco Heskey, and had a dig at every one of our English players whenever you had a chance. So, there is a very big chance that you'll hate hargreaves when you find out he is English.
 
I never said Ronaldo or Nani or Anderson are shit, but you called Rooney El Blanco Heskey, and had a dig at every one of our English players whenever you had a chance.

You have taken a dig at Ronaldo every chance and even when there hasnt been a chance because you feel pissed off that he has become one of the best players in the world and Rooney has remained in the great talent bracket.

The El Blanco Heskey comment was tongue in cheek and in a match rating thread. Most caftards gave him a worser rating than I did and said he was shite on that day. Does it mean he is a shite player ? Comparing performances on a day does not mean comparing players. Even Maradona can have a poor day.

Once again, you prove that you dont have the sense to post on anything about football but would rather talk about the poster.
 
You have taken a dig at Ronaldo every chance and even when there hasnt been a chance.

The El Blanco Heskey comment was tongue in cheek and in a match rating thread. Most caftards gave him a worser rating than I did and said he was shite on that day. Does it mean he is a shite player ?

Its not in a match rating thread, you called him heskey in a couple of threads. Search for El Blanco heskey in google and your thread come up in the first page.
Show me the proof that I hate Ronaldo. All I said was I like our other first teamers more than Ronaldo and you lot are making this up. Why do you have a problem if I like Fletcher or Giggs or Scholes or Rooney more than Ronaldo?
 
Calm down boys...

Back to the topic - has Hargreaves justified his salary, let alone his transfer fee?
 
Calm down boys...

Back to the topic - has Hargreaves justified his salary, let alone his transfer fee?

No, neither did Carrick or Nani or Anderson yet. When you pay 18 million for a player, you expect him to perform at the highest level for years, not just feck off after one great season. The price tag will be justified by the time he retires.
 
Calm down boys...

Back to the topic - has Hargreaves justified his salary, let alone his transfer fee?

He does not determine his transfer fee and no one knows what his salary actually is. If he is offered another contract in 3 years time, SAF probably feels that he has justified it. If he gets shipped out for a few million, he has been a waste of money.

So lets wait and see.
 
Why do you have a problem if I like Fletcher or Giggs or Scholes or Rooney more than Ronaldo?

I quite simply dont have a problem. Everyone will have their favorites towards whom they are possibly less critical. The only problem I have is that my criticism is deemed as hatred when its fine to take a pop at the foreign players.

One trick pony, diver, selfish, no end product, cant cross the ball, winker, 'worser than Lennon', 'shouldnt be allowed near a free kick' are all common when its against a foreigner. And he is now the best player in the world ? You could have never guessed based on how caftards rated him just a couple of seasons ago.

And I dont think anyone on here actually hates a United player. I have posted this before but somehow love-hate and extreme views seem to be the only thing that caftards understand - 'hargreaves is shite and no good at football' is the new one
 
No, neither did Carrick or Nani or Anderson yet. When you pay 18 million for a player, you expect him to perform at the highest level for years, not just feck off after one great season. The price tag will be justified by the time he retires.

Carricks' already had a great season last year, Anderson and Nani were bought in for thier potential. It seems they look the real deal...

Considering Hargreaves age and experience he should have given us a lot more in his first season. If he's injured, he should be honest and come back when fully fit. Injuries are unfortunate part of football, he would not have been blamed.
 
Considering Hargreaves age and experience he should have given us a lot more in his first season.

He is just 6 months older than Carrick right ? From a different league and after a long injury lay off with no pre-season. This season has also been stop start with different midfield partners. Even Essien/Mascherano didnt look that good in their first seasons and they are more talented.
 
He does not determine his transfer fee and no one knows what his salary actually is. If he is offered another contract in 3 years time, SAF probably feels that he has justified it. So lets wait and see.

He's certainly not playing for free...

I'm waiting with great anticipation for the player you guys keep telling me had been brilliant at Bayern, to turn up at United.
 
He is just 6 months older than Carrick right ? From a different league and after a long injury lay off with no pre-season. This season has also been stop start with different midfield partners. Even Essien and Mascherano didnt look that good in their first seasons.


Carrick had an immediate impact, and helped us to a great season last year. I have never claimed Carrick is a World beater, there are plenty better around than him...
 
Carrick had an immediate impact, and helped us to a great season last year. I have never claimed Carrick is a World beater, there are plenty better around than him...

And I have never claimed that Hargreaves is a world beater or that we will win the CL with him. Just that he gives us a better chance as he brings different abilities to the team.

But out here, if you take a side, you are either a Hargreaves lover or Hargreaves hater, a Carrick lover or Carrick hater. Everything is black or white with no shades of gray.
 
I'm not sure about the haters thing, but I'm pretty fecking sure that Carrick does a lot more than playing square or long balls.
 
I'm not sure about the haters thing, but I'm pretty fecking sure that Carrick does a lot more than playing square or long balls.

And Hargreaves does a lot more than just run around aimlessly.

I would like to think that everyone knows that too but since they are already in the Hargreaves hater/lover category, they tend to go all out for or against I guess.
 
And I have never claimed that Hargreaves is a world beater or that we will win the CL with him. Just that he gives us a better chance as he brings different abilities to the team.

But out here, if you take a side, you are either a Hargreaves lover or Hargreaves hater, a Carrick lover or Carrick hater. Everything is black or white with no shades of gray.

I doubt anyone has a problem if Hargreaves brings the qualities you talk about to the team. The debate here is, he has so far not shown any glimpses of his supposed qualities - which some have interpreted as hatred for Hargreaves or have bought Carrick into the equation.
 
Well...if we all have just reasonable arguments, it will end after 5 posts and be boring ;)

Lets get this thread to a 100 pages. The Anderson thread is the place to be on the caf now.

Anderson vs Hargreaves - who will be the quickest to 100 pages ? Place your bets.
 
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