He's actually declining since his debut.
Discuss.
PTME
Discuss.
PTME
The Wayne Rooney Thesis
- Thread starter PTME
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You have just opened a can of worms my friend.
a) Presumably, after last night's performance, this is a wind-up.
b) The above point doesn't matter much, you're going to get crucified anwyay.
b) The above point doesn't matter much, you're going to get crucified anwyay.
Same old topic
Disagree. He improved immensely for a year or 2 and has declined since then imo.
Still a top top player though and has suffered because of where he's been asked to play.
If we get Berbatov i think Rooney and Tevez will get even better.
The PTME Thesis
enjoys stirring it.
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enjoys stirring it.
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Well, if this apparent 'decline' continues to coincide with an increase in major trophies, the lad can steadily decline indefinately for all i care.
I basically agree, up until his injury against Chelsea at the end of 05/06 he was just getting better and better.
if he had improved game after game, he'd be scoring a hattrick every minute by now!
he scored a hattrick on debut - do you expect one from him every game?
Very true. He was brilliant that season.
I remember how gutted i was when the news came that his foot was broken too
His ball control and dribbling ability have declined, his shooting too. He was much more explosive. But thats not saying he's not playing well now, just not as good as I wouldve expected after his first two seasons. His passing can be very good at times, but its erratic. His workrate is unquestionable.
He's matured. If thats declining then yes I agree with you.
He's a better player now than what he used to be. He can lead the line now as well as anyone in the league imo, which is something that very few can just learn to do after playing in the hole for most of his career.
He may be less explosive but he is much better. If he finished some of the countless chances he created for himself because of his top class movement we would be talking about him and Ronaldo fighting it out for the WPOTY this year.
I don't think I agree with the whole idea of making him stop running around so much and forcing him to play like we want him to, I think it'll turn out to be a bad idea. I'm sure hardly anyone will agree with me on that but it worries me.
He may be less explosive but he is much better. If he finished some of the countless chances he created for himself because of his top class movement we would be talking about him and Ronaldo fighting it out for the WPOTY this year.
I don't think I agree with the whole idea of making him stop running around so much and forcing him to play like we want him to, I think it'll turn out to be a bad idea. I'm sure hardly anyone will agree with me on that but it worries me.
His performance against Newcastle will go down as one of the worrst performances in recent United history.
In his defense though, he shouldn't have really played in that game. He was rushed back and you could tell.
A different character would have just said no, i've been ill and i'll come back when im ready. But we were thin on the ground and he stepped up. He should be credited for that.
Besides, had Campbell scored Rooney would have had a glorious assist as that cross with the outside of his boot was sublime.
His overall game has improved. His passing, reading of the game and decision-making are absolutely fantastic for someone so young.
What he has lost, it's true, is some of his explosiveness. I think the repeated foot injuries have cost him a small amount of pace, but he may get that back. It's more psychological than that... he's become less individualistic and slightly less confident than he was when he first came through. One thing's for sure, when he thinks he's an excellent player, when he relies on natural instinct he's an incredible player.
I'd love to see him pick the ball up, turn, just barrel through a couple of defenders and spank it from twenty-five yards, like he used to. But these days he's much more likely to look for a sensible option. Maybe he idolises Scholesy too much? Or maybe it's all the games played out of position that have blunted his natural exuberance? Or maybe it's just a normal part of a great player's learning and development.
What he has lost, it's true, is some of his explosiveness. I think the repeated foot injuries have cost him a small amount of pace, but he may get that back. It's more psychological than that... he's become less individualistic and slightly less confident than he was when he first came through. One thing's for sure, when he thinks he's an excellent player, when he relies on natural instinct he's an incredible player.
I'd love to see him pick the ball up, turn, just barrel through a couple of defenders and spank it from twenty-five yards, like he used to. But these days he's much more likely to look for a sensible option. Maybe he idolises Scholesy too much? Or maybe it's all the games played out of position that have blunted his natural exuberance? Or maybe it's just a normal part of a great player's learning and development.
In all fairness, I'd have to agree.
If Rooney plays like he did last night then the explosive Rooney will be back shortly. There were signs last night that he is starting to refind his form from a few seasons ago. He just needs more matches and that bit of luck to open the floodgates.
Last night was one of his best performances for months. We haven't seen him striking thunderbolts because his confidence has dipped. Is he declining? Actually I think he's on the tip to becoming our most important player this season. Mark my words, United 08-09 will be Rooneys season.
Last night was one of his best performances for months. We haven't seen him striking thunderbolts because his confidence has dipped. Is he declining? Actually I think he's on the tip to becoming our most important player this season. Mark my words, United 08-09 will be Rooneys season.
I actually don't think he's "so young" anymore. Footballers nowadays tend to peak much earlier than they used to.
I think what might have tarnished Rooneys reputation was the fact that Ronaldo turmed into a godlike player in the past two years. After all their progress was compared a lot back in the days...
Scored a hat trick in his debut didnt he? Sort of hard to equal that in every game I suppose..
I thinks he's falling behind Tevez.
I will just echo the thoughts that we have come up with before. He needs to play regularly in his position, he needs to be more selfish at times and save some energy for his finishing. Other than that he is the ultimate team player.
Tevez is improving at an absolutely collosal rate, so even if this were true, it would hardly be a disgrace.
It isn't though...
It happened to Giggs. He lost some of his explosiveness as he became more rounded, but he rediscovered it as he entered his prime. Hopefully Rooney follows the same trajectory.
I disagree. Theres no denying that Tevez is a good player, but what has he done pre season or last night? He drops far too deep during matches and that always leaves our main striker isolated (Rooney last night).
But don't worry, i'll make sure I bring this thread back up in a few weeks time when Roon has beaten Chelsea and them Scousers.
A quick look at the MoM thread proves that a lot of Caftards think that he was the best man on the pitch agains Pompey.
Second best player in pre-season after Scholes and was most people's man of the match last night. He's absolutely flying at the moment and I can see him stepping up above Rooney into the Ronaldo/Ferdinand level this season.
Which I think is wrong. Apart from dancing around in midfield what did Tevez do last night that actually threatened the Portsmouth goal? The only end product I can think of is the lay off to Evra that setup Fletchers goal.
As for pre season, he was our experienced striker throughout (Rooney injury) yet how many goals did he score? I can't see where the plaudits are coming from, i'm actually disappointed as Tevez seems to be in form yet his end product is still poor.
Rooney however has end product! Rooney is still the better player.
Well both Tevez and Rooney aren't dangerous enough in front of goal, they hardly take a shot.
I would agree that Rooney declined a bit. He was phenomenal in his first 2 years. Now he is just a very hard worker.
He did okay yesterday but definately no MOM appearance.
Still got hopes to see the old Wayne
I would agree that Rooney declined a bit. He was phenomenal in his first 2 years. Now he is just a very hard worker.
He did okay yesterday but definately no MOM appearance.
Still got hopes to see the old Wayne
Rooney is a considerable better player now than he was 4 years ago.
Hope this helps.
Hope this helps.
Good post Plech. Regarding his explosiveness, it comes with having a better football brain. Happened with Giggs, and also Michael Owen.
This might sound obvious, but he is now a lot more aware of what is happening around him and is trained to pick the best option, which is rarely a low-percentage charge into the box and shoot scenario. Maybe he needs to strike a balance between the two.
All that said, I'm not really concerned about his progress. I think he'll reach another 'Eureka' moment soon in his development and will move onto the next level.
EDIT: People generally remember his early years far too fondly. All the best bits are recalled effortlessly, all other times are forgotten.
37 goals between them last season, neither of them take penaltys or free kicks. Pretty impressive especially when you consider both of them take on a lot of extra work last year to accomodate Ronaldo's advanced positions.
Yes, a balance would be good. He's not Scholesy, he's a more dynamic player. He shouldn't be playing the percentages as much - we've got plenty of players to do that. He should be rampaging, that's what terrifies defences. But it's true that defences don't stand still, they work out ways to play you, that's what's happened and like Giggsy he's adapting.
It's the confidence that's a slight worry. He used to be bursting with it. Now he seems alternately muted and frustrated. He needs a run of goals. All close season I was convinced that this time he'd get a proper pre-season in and come out all guns blazing. Fat chance.
Has anyone noticed he's getting less and less ugly? Maybe this needs to be stopped, it's affecting his game. In ten years he'll look like Johnny Depp and play like Dirk Kuyt.
He's still pretty ugly.
Unless you're REALLY STRANGE.
Unless you're REALLY STRANGE.
Right because you know exactly what people remember or don't remember.
He needs to improve his finishing, and take his chances more in terms of shooting from a longer range, or going for goal instead of trying to find a misplaced pass.
Although that could be said for most of our squad when you think about it.
You can't question his commitment and workrate, and it is a sad truth that his injuries have taken their toll on his pace over the years.
Although that could be said for most of our squad when you think about it.
You can't question his commitment and workrate, and it is a sad truth that his injuries have taken their toll on his pace over the years.
I'm hoping part of his dynamism will return if we sign Berbatov, at the moment he is playing with his back to goal as the furthest man forward whereas if he is playing behind a Saha/Berbatov then he is attacking the ball (and the defenders) from deep and at pace.
A bit like this