Dimitar Berbatov | 2009/10 Performances

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Ekeke

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I mention Bayern and Ac because those are the destinations that have been mooted in the press. Clubs around the world see that Berbatov hasn't been a success at utd but that doesn't discount the fantastic performances he gave for Spurs and Leverkursen. Listen I'll put my membership of the caf on it, if he leaves us it will be to a team that's qualified for the CL (mods can hold me to that). He would be ideally suited for Italian or Spanish football because of his close control and the pace he likes to play at, I would throw a resurgent Roma into the hat as a likely buyer.



The way I see it Ferguson made an exception for Berbatov (in terms of big money for an older player) because he could see that he could play at the same athletic level into his mid thirties. It's obvious that his game is totally unreliant on pace, it always has been. So I don't really think it's accurate to talk about Berbatov as if his career is about to end. Michael Owen is an old 29 because his game is entirely dependent on pace and age has robbed him of it.
Berbatov ran harder and more purposefully for Spurs and it made a difference. When his pace is going, his career is only going one way. And that'll be the same with most players. Some will change their game to be less reliant on pace like Giggs. But what of those already unreliant on pace? They cant make that change. They are just slower to react, slower to get on the end of loose balls, slower to make runs, slower working the defence and so on.

Sir Alex made an exception for Berbatov because he saw a comparison with Cantona's ability. Thats a comparison he himself made. And while the technical quality is there (when he's high on confidence and form) nothing else is. He got one wrong. They all do.
 

Ixion

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I love how people feel the need to point out when Berbatov actually tries hard (and even make threads about it!).
 

evra

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Berbatov ran harder and more purposefully for Spurs and it made a difference. When his pace is going, his career is only going one way. And that'll be the same with most players. Some will change their game to be less reliant on pace like Giggs. But what of those already unreliant on pace? They cant make that change. They are just slower to react, slower to get on the end of loose balls, slower to make runs, slower working the defence and so on.

Sir Alex made an exception for Berbatov because he saw a comparison with Cantona's ability. Thats a comparison he himself made. And while the technical quality is there (when he's high on confidence and form) nothing else is. He got one wrong. They all do.
During his time at Spurs Dimi was the big fish in a small pond and he did far less running than has for us this year, in fact I've read articles and listened to pundits that attribute his problems at utd to the fact he's trying too hard!

Listen, my point was that it's not like he's a Giggs, Owen, Valencia etc type who's game is running on to balls knocked beyond defenders, his game is played with the ball at his feet and that kind of player can perform at a high level into their mid-thirties.
 

CantonaVeron

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It's so frustrating he is obviously a quality player but he just can't seem to deliver for Utd no matter how hard he tries. It will be interesting to see whether or not we keep him in the summer, just as a gamble that he turns things around. Ferguson has a very big decision to make on whether to keep him or not.
 

Ekeke

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During his time at Spurs Dimi was the big fish in a small pond and he did far less running than has for us this year, in fact I've read articles and listened to pundits that attribute his problems at utd to the fact he's trying too hard!

Listen, my point was that it's not like he's a Giggs, Owen, Valencia etc type who's game is running on to balls knocked beyond defenders, his game is played with the ball at his feet and that kind of player can perform at a high level into their mid-thirties.
Nah I watched Spurs for most of their matches in the second half of his last season there. Where he was supposedly stropping about, being moody because he wanted to come to United. He still made the runs for the team, behind the defence and occupied defenders properly. Still got his ass into the box to finish moves off. Still got his ass into the box to score in the big matches and be influencial in them.

I appreciate he sometimes runs about working harder to close people down and try and tackle them at United and he covers a certain distance. But at Spurs it was the running his team needed that he produced even when being "moody".

At United he doesnt make the runs in behind, doesnt run his ass into the box often enough and so on. The running isnt the kind that the team actually needs in the areas they need it for best results.

Berbatov wont play to a high level till his mid 30s anymore than Ronaldinho will. He's struggling with it now and he's only 29.
 

evra

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During his time at Spurs Dimi was the big fish in a small pond and he did far less running than has for us this year, in fact I've read articles and listened to pundits that attribute his problems at utd to the fact he's trying too hard!

Listen, my point was that it's not like he's a Giggs, Owen, Valencia etc type who's game is running on to balls knocked beyond defenders, his game is played with the ball at his feet and that kind of player can perform at a high level into their mid-thirties.
Nah I watched Spurs for most of their matches in the second half of his last season there. Where he was supposedly stropping about, being moody because he wanted to come to United. He still made the runs for the team, behind the defence and occupied defenders properly. Still got his ass into the box to finish moves off. Still got his ass into the box to score in the big matches and be influencial in them.

I appreciate he sometimes runs about working harder to close people down and try and tackle them at United and he covers a certain distance. But at Spurs it was the running his team needed that he produced even when being "moody".

At United he doesnt make the runs in behind, doesnt run his ass into the box often enough and so on. The running isnt the kind that the team actually needs in the areas they need it for best results.

Berbatov wont play to a high level till his mid 30s anymore than Ronaldinho will. He's struggling with it now and he's only 29.
I don't think we're going to reach a consensus mate! I disagree with what you say about his style of play at Spurs and Ronaldinho played his best at pace, running past people and onto balls. His career is waning because he no longer has that in his locker. Berbatov has never had pace, he's built a good career around a game that is almost totally unreliant on running at pace!
 

Ekeke

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I don't think we're going to reach a consensus mate! I disagree with what you say about his style of play at Spurs and Ronaldinho played his best at pace, running past people and onto balls. His career is waning because he no longer has that in his locker. Berbatov has never had pace, he's built a good career around a game that is almost totally unreliant on running at pace!
Ronaldinho and Berbatov are both creative players on the ball. If either one of them had more in their locker in that respect its Ronaldinho, pace or no. The problem is he hasnt run for about 2 seasons. He's started to jog again this season which is positive, but he'll obviously not last too long into his 30s. Certainly not at the highest level at a top club, which Milan arent really anyway. Berbatov wont either. Only when he was at his absolute best at Spurs would he have been good enough to go to a top club and be a fixture in the side. When we signed him the theory was that at a top club he could go to that next level. Instead he's gone down 5 levels. You take away the running he did for the team at Spurs (in behind the defence) and he's not good enough. Its a very important part of a striker's makeup and he's forgotten how to do it.
 

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In the modern game, tall, somewhat immobile strikers, and even those with more ability in their left testicle than the majority of players, look rather out of place, in my opinion, particularly in teams that rely on movement and pace in the final third. Both United and Barcelona looked to players like that, hoping to add some "needed calmness" in the final third, likely to open up stubborn teams that sit very deep, but it has largely failed in both instances, and has almost certainly been more detrimental than positive. I understand why a manager might want a player like that, but it is really only necessary in very specific circumstances, and completely counter-productive in numerous others, which doesn't exactly lend itself to a massive transfer fee. And what you appear to lose in the bargain is simply not worth it, in my opinion.

Although most United fans don't agree, that is why I was never as fond of Van Nistelrooy as many people were, even while recognizing his brilliance in front of goal. I admit that preference is likely clouding my objectivity, but I've never been convinced that it is good idea to sacrifice mobility and athleticism in attack, because it often has more of an impact on a teams approach than one player really should. This is apparently what a lot of people in Barcelona are now saying about Ibrahimovic.

In a game where players are fitter, faster, and more athletic than ever before, and where they are far more intelligent about the way that they defend (particularly in England and in comparison to even ten years ago), I'd prefer a front line that are all mobile, quick, skillful, with good movement and the ability to inter-change positions comfortably. And the strange thing is that we have almost always produced our most devastating football with teams like that.
 

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Would it considered bad form if I posted that video of the holy tritiy running like the red arrows for the fouth against Middlesbrough in 07?.....I love that video.
 

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In the modern game, tall, somewhat immobile strikers, and even those with more ability in their left testicle than the majority of players, look rather out of place, in my opinion, particularly in teams that rely on movement and pace in the final third. Both United and Barcelona looked to players like that, hoping to add some "needed calmness" in the final third, likely to open up stubborn teams that sit very deep, but it has largely failed in both instances, and has almost certainly been more detrimental than positive. I understand why a manager might want a player like that, but it is really only necessary in very specific circumstances, and completely counter-productive in numerous others, which doesn't exactly lend itself to a massive transfer fee. And what you appear to lose in the bargain is simply not worth it, in my opinion.

Although most United fans don't agree, that is why I was never as fond of Van Nistelrooy as many people were, even while recognizing his brilliance in front of goal. I admit that preference is likely clouding my objectivity, but I've never been convinced that it is good idea to sacrifice mobility and athleticism in attack, because it often has more of an impact on a teams approach than one player really should. This is apparently what a lot of people in Barcelona are now saying about Ibrahimovic.

In a game where players are fitter, faster, and more athletic than ever before, and where they are far more intelligent about the way that they defend (particularly in England and in comparison to even ten years ago), I'd prefer a front line that are all mobile, quick, skillful, with good movement and the ability to inter-change positions comfortably. And the strange thing is that we have almost always produced our most devastating football with teams like that.
Yeah, I agree with that. Particularly the final paragraph, our attack just feels slower and more cumbersome with Berbatov, most of the time.
 

B Cantona

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In the modern game, tall, somewhat immobile strikers, and even those with more ability in their left testicle than the majority of players, look rather out of place, in my opinion, particularly in teams that rely on movement and pace in the final third. Both United and Barcelona looked to players like that, hoping to add some "needed calmness" in the final third, likely to open up stubborn teams that sit very deep, but it has largely failed in both instances, and has almost certainly been more detrimental than positive. I understand why a manager might want a player like that, but it is really only necessary in very specific circumstances, and completely counter-productive in numerous others, which doesn't exactly lend itself to a massive transfer fee. And what you appear to lose in the bargain is simply not worth it, in my opinion.

Although most United fans don't agree, that is why I was never as fond of Van Nistelrooy as many people were, even while recognizing his brilliance in front of goal. I admit that preference is likely clouding my objectivity, but I've never been convinced that it is good idea to sacrifice mobility and athleticism in attack, because it often has more of an impact on a teams approach than one player really should. This is apparently what a lot of people in Barcelona are now saying about Ibrahimovic.

In a game where players are fitter, faster, and more athletic than ever before, and where they are far more intelligent about the way that they defend (particularly in England and in comparison to even ten years ago), I'd prefer a front line that are all mobile, quick, skillful, with good movement and the ability to inter-change positions comfortably. And the strange thing is that we have almost always produced our most devastating football with teams like that.
If you're making the case for immobile strikers looking out of place in the modern game, fine. But I don't see what being tall has to do with it? Both the strikers in question, Ibrahimovic and Berbatov, are not performing as they might this season, and seem to be out of place in the system their clubs are operating. But these players have already proved themselves elsewhere, just perhaps the style of those sides - Inter and Spurs - suited their games more

If a team plays with genuine wingers, and plays a more direct game, and tries to get the ball into the box as early as possibly, that's always going to suit a strong, tall striker. If your wide players are more likely to come inside than run to the byline and beat their man, and try to work the ball and constantly look for a better opportunity... said player isn't going to have the same effect

Even the top teams who play this 'modern' style need a plan B, something different for the opposition to think about. The problem with Berbatov at United for me is nothing to do with the style of player he is; rather he simply hasn't been good enough to this point
 

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In the modern game, tall, somewhat immobile strikers, and even those with more ability in their left testicle than the majority of players, look rather out of place, in my opinion, particularly in teams that rely on movement and pace in the final third. Both United and Barcelona looked to players like that, hoping to add some "needed calmness" in the final third, likely to open up stubborn teams that sit very deep, but it has largely failed in both instances, and has almost certainly been more detrimental than positive. I understand why a manager might want a player like that, but it is really only necessary in very specific circumstances, and completely counter-productive in numerous others, which doesn't exactly lend itself to a massive transfer fee. And what you appear to lose in the bargain is simply not worth it, in my opinion.

Although most United fans don't agree, that is why I was never as fond of Van Nistelrooy as many people were, even while recognizing his brilliance in front of goal. I admit that preference is likely clouding my objectivity, but I've never been convinced that it is good idea to sacrifice mobility and athleticism in attack, because it often has more of an impact on a teams approach than one player really should. This is apparently what a lot of people in Barcelona are now saying about Ibrahimovic.

In a game where players are fitter, faster, and more athletic than ever before, and where they are far more intelligent about the way that they defend (particularly in England and in comparison to even ten years ago), I'd prefer a front line that are all mobile, quick, skillful, with good movement and the ability to inter-change positions comfortably. And the strange thing is that we have almost always produced our most devastating football with teams like that.
agree with the majority of that
 

devilish

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If you're making the case for immobile strikers looking out of place in the modern game, fine. But I don't see what being tall has to do with it? Both the strikers in question, Ibrahimovic and Berbatov, are not performing as they might this season, and seem to be out of place in the system their clubs are operating. But these players have already proved themselves elsewhere, just perhaps the style of those sides - Inter and Spurs - suited their games more

If a team plays with genuine wingers, and plays a more direct game, and tries to get the ball into the box as early as possibly, that's always going to suit a strong, tall striker. If your wide players are more likely to come inside than run to the byline and beat their man, and try to work the ball and constantly look for a better opportunity... said player isn't going to have the same effect

Even the top teams who play this 'modern' style need a plan B, something different for the opposition to think about. The problem with Berbatov at United for me is nothing to do with the style of player he is; rather he simply hasn't been good enough to this point
Ibra was Inter's prima donna. If Ibra coughs, then the entire Inter part of San Siro would shiver. Same thing about Berba (at Spurs) and Totti (at Roma). You don't get that luxury at a club like United and Barca.
 

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I've always supported him but today even I wanted him to be taken off... It might be the right to go Dimitar. I like him but i hugely doubt we'll ever manage to get something better out of him.
 

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I've always supported him but today even I wanted him to be taken off... It might be the right to go Dimitar. I like him but i hugely doubt we'll ever manage to get something better out of him.
I feel pretty much the same way. Unfortunately when given the opportunity to make some decisive contributions at the end of the season he hasn't been able to produce and turn around some of the sceptics. It feels inevitable that he will leave.
 

B Cantona

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Berbatov April onwards for Manchester United



This is Berbatov's worst run in front of goal this season. The problem is, this is precisely the time you need your top players to really step it up and come through for you. Performances matter less; it's all about results. Berbatov has had two run ins at United now, and his output has been dismal. His only goal came against his former club Spurs, and guess what - that was with the game already won at 4-2
 

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Berbatov April onwards for Manchester United



This is Berbatov's worst run in front of goal this season. The problem is, this is precisely the time you need your top players to really step it up and come through for you. Performances matter less; it's all about results. Berbatov has had two run ins at United now, and his output has been dismal. His only goal came against his former club Spurs, and guess what - that was with the game already won at 4-2

Worth mentioning that he started on the bench in about half those games. Not saying it totally changes your point, but it's pretty relevant information.
 

M160RA

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Has anyone made a compilation of all Berbatov's misses this season? At one point, I just brushed it off saying it was just a temporary issue and his class would eventually shine through. But it's been like this the entire season! I hope his composure improves over the summer.
 

B Cantona

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Worth mentioning that he started on the bench in about half those games. Not saying it totally changes your point, but it's pretty relevant information.
Very well, I'll express it in different terms

From April onwards for Manchester United to date, Berbatov has scored one goal in 971 minutes of football
 

Ekeke

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Has anyone made a compilation of all Berbatov's misses this season? At one point, I just brushed it off saying it was just a temporary issue and his class would eventually shine through. But it's been like this the entire season! I hope his composure improves over the summer.
As far as I remember it his misses last season were plentiful and often worse than this season.
 

VoetbalWizard

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the thing is, he's equaled his league haul from his first season in spurs. he scored a lot of goals in uefa cup which is shite anyways. at the end of the day I never rated him, and I can't believe fergie fell for his shit. don't tell me fergie was going for a 'cantona'...that's disrespecting the king. and also even if fergie was going for a 'cantona', ibra is more of that that the bulgarian. why idn't fergie seriously go after ibra then?

I think fergie was looking for a striker, who was in the permiership, and berba was getting agitated and fergie got desparate come end of august with no striker in and ended up doing the deal. overall shit situation.
 

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I will be very surprised (off course pleasantly) if he leaves this summer. Have a feeling Fergie will give him another year to prove himself mainly because we won't get any realistic offers for him and Fergie is definitely not the guy who will take a huge hit, he is a self confessed money minded Scottish bloke.
 

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the thing is, he's equaled his league haul from his first season in spurs. he scored a lot of goals in uefa cup which is shite anyways. at the end of the day I never rated him, and I can't believe fergie fell for his shit. don't tell me fergie was going for a 'cantona'...that's disrespecting the king. and also even if fergie was going for a 'cantona', ibra is more of that that the bulgarian. why idn't fergie seriously go after ibra then?

I think fergie was looking for a striker, who was in the permiership, and berba was getting agitated and fergie got desparate come end of august with no striker in and ended up doing the deal. overall shit situation.
We were chasing him that summer hence why he was agitating for a move, and were interested before he even joined Spurs so it was hardly a desperation move. The only issue at the time was the price which was jacked up by City also declaring their interest putting Spurs in a stronger bargaining position.
 

KingEric7

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I still can't understand why Berbatov wasn't moulded into a midfielder earlier in his career.
 
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We were chasing him that summer hence why he was agitating for a move, and were interested before he even joined Spurs so it was hardly a desperation move. This only issue at the time was the price which was jacked up by City also declaring their interest putting Spurs in a stronger bargaining position.
correct
 

devilish

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I will be very surprised (off course pleasantly) if he leaves this summer. Have a feeling Fergie will give him another year to prove himself mainly because we won't get any realistic offers for him and Fergie is definitely not the guy who will take a huge hit, he is a self confessed money minded Scottish bloke.
I think that he will remain. Stating that, things will change. He will not be the new guy on the block that needs games to settle down. He will have to fight for every game like anybody else and if (lets say) Owen starts scoring goals then he will keep his place. I wouldn't be surprised if SAF brings in another striker who would be considered ahead of Berba in the pecking order.
 

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I think that he will remain. Stating that, things will change. He will not be the new guy on the block that needs games to settle down. He will have to fight for every game like anybody else and if (lets say) Owen starts scoring goals then he will keep his place. I wouldn't be surprised if SAF brings in another striker who would be considered ahead of Berba in the pecking order.
Chicharito?
 
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