Ive mentioned Owen because I believe that he has a more realistic chance of a first team place then the Mexican guy (considering Owen's experience). Lets face it guys, its true that SAF had always been behind the Berba guy. On the other hand its also true that he was never happy with our forward line and 3 strikers in less then a year clearly shows that. If we signed Benzema last summer then I doubt that the French man would have ended up on the bench without at least a fighting chance of winning a first team place.
Dimitar Berbatov | 2009/10 Performances
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Berbaflop has to go, its just not working out. Rooney's body language when Berba missed chances today was priceless.
What a loser, 3 golden opportunities laid on a plate for him and he didn't even hit the target once.
Everyone saying we should sell him, well thats fine, but who replaces him exactly? any ideas? were hardly swimming in top level striking options the last time i looked......
You really REALLY despise him don't you?I think it might be curtains for Berba.
Let's say Rooney, Chicharito, Owen, Macheda are the first team possibilities.
There are still lots of rumours about additional strikers and attacking players, arriving in the summer and we don't play 4-4-2 that often.
It would seem to suggest that either Berba leaves, or he will get very few chances next season.
If thats our 4 main strikers for next season then sorry, were fecked.
So suggesting that Berbatov is incompatible with United is not permitted? You want people to specify EXACTLY who replaces him, even though it is a squad? And how exactly does he need to be replaced, I mean in terms of what he has been offering on a consistent basis?
Being tall is only really an issue when coupled with immobility. C. Ronaldo is tall, but he is also athletic and very quick, for example. But smaller players at least have a low center of gravity, so they tend to be much more effective at bouncing off people and squirming through gaps, even if they are not particularly quick, and they tend to be more agile which allows them to get away from opponents more easily.
I agree with you that the best teams need to be able to vary their approach, but always have under Sir Alex, anyway, even when we don't have the right players, to my eternal frustration (Wes Brown pumping balls forward to nobody, for example). That has always been one of our greatest strengths. I sometimes pull my hair out because it's hard to understand why a player does something that likely won't achieve anything, but it's clearly because it doesn't allow the opposition to settle in to any kind of rhythm or pattern of defending. It keeps them thinking and every now and then a ball that is aimless 9 times out of 10 leads to a goal.
A "plan B" is usually achieved more with a change of personnel than style, in my experience, because it's not realistic to expect a team to change their approach too much during a game. The best you can hope for is to exploit certain areas of the pitch or to predominately use certain types of pass or cross that have looked like bringing some success. And bringing on specific players can also change your approach naturally, of course.
But you don't usually spend £30m on a player for that reason, and it's clear that we didn't, which lends credence to your assertion that Berbatov has simply not performed, rather than him not suiting the team. However, Mike Phelan has said as recently as a few months ago that they were working with him and stressing that United are a team that moves the ball quickly and that he needs to better adapt to it, which supports the idea that it is more likely a mixture of Berbatov clearly not performing, but also him not really adapting to our preferred approach.
And I would argue that the two are probably intrinsically linked. Berbatov hasn't performed because he has struggled to adapt to our approach to the game — to the speed with which we move the ball, to the intensity of our play, and perhaps to the pressure that comes with a club of this stature. The net effect is that Berbatov performs poorly and the team are poorer for it. At which point you admit that it may never work, I have no idea, but most people rightly have less patience with a 29 year old International that cost £30m, than they do with a youngster who is still finding their way in the game.
Eh? all im saying is its fine to say sell Berbatov, but without replacing him then we're just weakening our already relatively bare striking options where qualities concerned, as i said, we're hardly swimming in a pool of top strikers at the moment are we.....are we? maybe some think we are....
All we have (without Berbatov) and aside from Rooney are untested kids, unknown mexicans and a couple of 'at a push' decent reserves, if thats what were pinning our hopes on then fantastic.
As ever, you are a rare ray of sunshine.
somebody who cares enough to run occasionally and perhaps even break sweat once in a while...if they could hit the goal from a yard out that would be a bonus as well...
We are only suggesting selling him because he has not performed satisfactorily. Now if you are asking WHO we can AFFORD to buy, then I wouldn't know. He has just been so infuriating...
Youd be happy with those 4 would ya? loving the world your living in...
See, i dont have a problem with anyone saying sell him, dont misunderstand me im not angling for an argument, all im saying is if we were to sell him as many on here seem to wish then what happens? are we then forced to pray to god Rooney stays fit for every game or do we expect the likes of Diouf/Macheda/Mexican kid etc will be good enough to lead the line for this club? me personaly i wouldnt be to confident if they were our next in line, sorry.
Thats all im saying, if were going to sell him then surely we must replace him.
Yes I agree. Sell and replace. And I don't rate Diouf, he's clumsy.
Showing a bit of faith in those players you just named might just make the difference, so not necessarily
Although personally yes, I think we need another player up front
Right, and thats all im saying.
It's not quite as bad as you doom and gloom merchants like to paint. Everything is written in superlatives and there is little reasoned thought.
It wouldn't be a quartet (quintet if you include Diouf) to necessarily strike fear in others, but saying 'we're fecked' is pretty silly.
Hernandez is a complete unknown factor, Macheda is improving, and Diouf has not featured enough to make a credible judgement.
Ok, let me rephrase it and put a more eloquent slant on it.....if those were to be our 4 main strikers for next season i believe wed seriously struggle to maintain our intentions of pushing for and winning the major titles....one injury to Rooney and were then reliant on mainly untested kids, unknowns altogether and Michael Owen.
Now, with all due respect to the aforementioned, That doesn’t fill me with confidence.
fair point...
but berba-toss does not fill me with confidence either...
sell him and replace with somebody fit to wear the shirt and have owen, macheda, hernandez diouff and welbeck to add some strenght in depth
Problem is, as we play just the one up front against big teams any new striker would have to be prepared to sit on the bench - as Owen and Berbatov have had to do all season for the big games. It will, though, be ridiculous if we buy and don't sell - 3 apparently top class strikers on the bench for big games?
You can see why SAF thought we'd be OK for this season. 442, like today, with Berba and Rooney against weaker teams, and Nani-Rooney-Valencia against better opposition. We mixed it up brilliantly all year till Rooney was struck down and with Owen out, Berba proved he couldn't operate up front on his own.
I can see though why SAF was so interested in Benzema - he could play either with Rooney in a partnership, or do a great job of filling in for him if Rooney was rested/injured. He would be a far better player for our current squad, and needs, than either Berbatov or Owen. They are both limited to having to play in a 442 formation - something we rarely use in our most important games.
SAF must be rubbing his hands with glee at Benzema's fate this year - there must be a good chance he can pick him up cheaply, as spoiled goods, and get him playing again.
The one downside of getting someone like Benzema is that if he came and started playing fantastically making himself undroppable, there's a danger we'd see Rooney shunted out to the wing to accommodate him...
Why? If Rooney can't play for a month or two, aren't we really fecked? Who'd lead the line? Diouf?The newby?Owen,whose fitness is more than questionable?Macheda is improving, but being a starter day in and day out for prolonged time, is he ready for it?
We can see what happens to a team that loses his best forward(dippers) and have no one in reality to replace him.
If Berbatov goes - we must replace him. It's not even debatable.
That's the thing - our squad is bizarrely ill equipped to cope without Rooney - even with berbatov. I've no doubt that had Owen been fit, SAF would have reverted to 442 and played him upfront with Berba against Bayern and Chelsea and built on the promising understanding they hinted at earlier in the season.
It is all too easy to say Berba must go but I have zero confidence in Gill/Glazer spending the money for somebody better.
Yeah we're fecked without Rooney no matter what. We'd perhaps get by with a combination of Owen, Macheda and Berbatov up front in a 2 together. But with 1 up front it doesnt matter who of those that we play, they arent suited to that job. In the case of Macheda I should add "yet" because he could become that player. But Berbatov and Owen arent good up front alone. They need a partner each.
Peronally I wouldnt be surprised if Macheda or Hernandez could manage 7-10 goals in the league if they were first choice for a significant amount of the season. Not as many as Berbatov but not a million miles away. I think most strikers would salivate at our supply, its just Berbatov who isnt suited at all to using it.
Peronally I wouldnt be surprised if Macheda or Hernandez could manage 7-10 goals in the league if they were first choice for a significant amount of the season. Not as many as Berbatov but not a million miles away. I think most strikers would salivate at our supply, its just Berbatov who isnt suited at all to using it.
Agreed. Neither of the forwards atm have the mobility of Rooney. Without him, there's no one in the box, especially if Berbatov leads the line. Crossing the ball into nowhere in the box, while Berbatov is trying to make a run for it somewhere near the half line is not funny any more...
Owen can't be utilized in the build up the same way Rooney participates. Berba can, but the obvious drawbacks - finishing, mobility,pace is lacking.
Diouf has no experience whatsoever in Prem, and his abilities are questionable. Same goes for Macheda(bar the questionable abilities). Macheda has came on when we were chasing a goal and in the dying minutes.
Fact is - nobody is complete anough to replace Rooney. Not saying that we can easily find someone as special as Rooney at the market, but without him, there's absolutely no one in the current squad who can lead the line in 4-5-1.
Sure we can revert to 4-4-2, but we lose edge in midfield, especially away from home(having in mind that Carrick had a mare of a season, Ando is long term injured, Hargo fit at last, hopefully for long, Gibson is limited to some extend, Scholes is not to be relied on day in and day out(age), etc).
Still Berbatov gives us options up front, and is always an usefull player to have in your line up. We should only let him go if appropriate offer comes.
Berba will be at OT next season by default. Nobody wants to buy at the price United want to sell and we don't have the money to buy anybody better.
If Ferguson signed a striker of the quality we're after, you'd soon find we'd be adjusting our tactics to make sure we had him and Rooney playing, don't worry about that. I think he's been bound by the 'limitations' of his squad at time this season, and that's forced his hand somewhat
Whether that means Rooney playing out wide again, or maybe just dropping closer to the midfield again... who knows. He might simply opt to pair them up front together. Would all depend
I still think wide left is where Rooney will end up.
I actually think SAF wanted to play 442 in most games this season but a combination of Berbatov's lacklustre form and Rooney's sensational form as a lone striker meant we favoured 433 against top class opposition.
The other advantage of playing 433 is that it enables SAF to continue to use Scholes and Giggs in big games against big opposition.
If what you suggested were to come true - that if a new striker came and did well he'd be accommodated into the team - it would be bad news for Scholes especially as he can't operate in a midfield 2 in big games anymore.
It's a complicated one for Fergie - I just hope he gets the chance to sort it out this summer in the way he wants rather than having to compromise and dip into the bargain basement again.
So depressing that he was our last "cocks out" signing and it just hasn't worked. In the interviews he seems a nice chap but you just expect so much more...
Anyone. It's just painful watching Berbs in a United shirt. He has no confidence in himself, his team mates don't have confidence in him, he doesn't link well with other, he doesn't even offer a decent option for big games, the fans are getting frustrated with him. It's all just painful. There are dozens of better options right now. I'll leave it to management/others to argue the best option but there are plenty to choose from.
I actually thought he was beginning to gel until today. I think that the chances are he leaves in the summer
Who? this is the problem, even with having Berbatov this season 99% of our fanbase agrees were a striker short and lacking in goalscorers, if we let Berbatov go then we're in an even worse state on that front because like it or not Berbatov is our second highest scorer this season and the only man after Rooney in double figures, so despite being underwhelming and despite many fans wanting rid, hes outscored everyone bar Rooney.....if were going to sell him that needs replacing, improving on and im afriad and im not sure who these 'dozens of other options' are....are you refering to youngsters here or not?
There's no way he'll leave this summer. I honestly believe this is a confidence issue with Berbatov, rather than a talent one. With a bit more confidence he'd have had a few goals today, hell even a bit of luck would do him the world of good. I don't think he lacks the talent to put those chances away - look at his finishing for Bulgaria as evidence of that. The sniping of fans and the milestone price-tag seem to weigh him down here.
He's still scored goals for us this year and for a while his goal per start ratio was pretty impressive. Fergie is a stubborn old git and won't give up on him this easy, unless a silly offer came in, which seems unlikely right now. I can't see us taking a hit on him. He'll be given another chance to prove himself, and I know that seems to some like we're being too patient, but I don't think we have much choice.
He's still scored goals for us this year and for a while his goal per start ratio was pretty impressive. Fergie is a stubborn old git and won't give up on him this easy, unless a silly offer came in, which seems unlikely right now. I can't see us taking a hit on him. He'll be given another chance to prove himself, and I know that seems to some like we're being too patient, but I don't think we have much choice.
Well not every player played as much as Berbatov. Given more games the likes of Macheda, Owen and Gibson would score more goals. And its not like 12 goals is so much that only few others can compare. With the supply players get from our wings/fullbacks a lot of strikers would find that not so hard. Its just Berbatov isnt the kind of striker to make full use of good delivery from the wings is he.
Most likely yes he would need replacing if sold. Although there are options and flexabilities about what his replacement would be. Perhaps we wouldnt go with an out and out striker, more of a goalscoring midfielder to play in the hole behind Rooney. Then again maybe we have that covered already with Gibson as the manager seems to think he could score him 12-15 if he started a lot more often.
As well the players we do have will all be looking to go to the next level next season. The likes of Nani and Valencia should be scoring more goals than they have this season and that will help. Its not often we have players who struggle to get to the next level each season and improve, Berbatov is one of the few. But we have plenty of others who will do that and offer more goals next season.
Never seen a 30M quid striker...or any striker for any top team for that matter, miss so many sitters from within the 6 yard area as this man has during his tenure at United.
Absolutely shocking. Add 3 more to the tally today. Thought Berbatov was largely ineffective bar the usual 2/3 flicks - basically not good enough.
He's off.
Absolutely shocking. Add 3 more to the tally today. Thought Berbatov was largely ineffective bar the usual 2/3 flicks - basically not good enough.
He's off.
he was quite shockingly bad today. 
The look on Sir Alex's face when he missed his 3rd reminded me of the look he had when Beckham did something or other during his last season with us.
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