I said chuck the incident but that's the part you quoted. Well done.
El Classico X 4 (1st: Draw, 2nd: Real win, 3rd: Messi wins, 4th: Barca win)
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The point is, a foul can't lead to another foul. That's ridiculous! The ball was clearly well past Mascherano, Pique caused the situation in the first place with a foul, advantage should have been played. If Pique had fouled Ronaldo and then himself fell on Mascherano, what then?
You're talking daft as per.
Exactly. It's a bit like Vidic taking Evra out. You can't really blame it on the other team really.
You really need to keep up, Weaste.
As has been mentioned dozens of times already, if the ref thinks Pique fouled Ronaldo then it's a free-kick to Real Madrid.
Of course, he could have decided to play advantage but that advantage would have ended the moment Mascherano was fouled (and, as you've already been reminded, he can be fouled whether or not Ronaldo had any intent to do so)
When they're playing on different teams (e.g. Serbia vs France) then yeah, it would be a bit like that.
When they're playing on the same team they can't foul each other.
That's the entire problem, Pique DID foul Ronaldo, and he called it totally wrong. Thus, he fecked up, and the goal WAS valid.
And I don't care about either club, both of them are shithouses as far as I'm concerned.
If we go with that assumption, that Ronaldo was fouled, then the referee has two options.
a) Immediately blow for a free-kick to Barcelona.
b) Let play develop to see if Madrid gain an advantage.
If he takes that latter option, the advantage ends the moment Mascherano is taken out by Ronaldo and he should call play back to give the free-kick to Madrid.
In both scenarios the goal doesn't stand.
Surely if the ref deems the contact on Ronaldo to be a foul and allows advantage to be played, that advantage stops when it becomes clear Mascherano has the ball (i.e. no advantage has accrued)? So it's called back for a foul on Ronaldo? I don't think an intervening act during the advantage such as Ronaldo fouling Mascherano - albeit unintentionally - to hand back the advantage to Madrid can be deemed to be acceptable.
By analogy, say Ronaldo had been running clean through and gotten checked by Pique. The ref plays advantage. He keeps going in an attempt to win the ball before it gets to Valdes. Valdes is quicker and gets there just before Ronaldo who, because of being checked, loses his balance and tumbles into Valdes, causing him to spill the ball and allow Ronaldo an open goal. The ref couldn't in good conscience give that goal. He should call it back and give Ronaldo his original free kick.
By analogy, say Ronaldo had been running clean through and gotten checked by Pique. The ref plays advantage. He keeps going in an attempt to win the ball before it gets to Valdes. Valdes is quicker and gets there just before Ronaldo who, because of being checked, loses his balance and tumbles into Valdes, causing him to spill the ball and allow Ronaldo an open goal. The ref couldn't in good conscience give that goal. He should call it back and give Ronaldo his original free kick.
that's a very good analogy.
Was trying to think of one last night but that's about perfect.
That's quite different though, as one incident would not have been directly related to the other. Ronaldo clipped Mascherano directly because he was bundled over by Pique, Valdes was way away from the initial incident.
My argument is that Ronaldo cannot have fouled Mascherano because the contact was directly caused by him falling due to a previous foul. In essence, Pique fouled Mascherano, not Ronaldo.
My argument is that Ronaldo cannot have fouled Mascherano because the contact was directly caused by him falling due to a previous foul. In essence, Pique fouled Mascherano, not Ronaldo.
No. It's exactly the same.
Imagine the whole incident happened just outside the box and Valdes is rushing out to gather the ball.
Ronaldo goes flying into Valdes a split second after he's picked the ball up. The keeper gets clattered, drops the ball and Ronaldo jumps to his feet and rolls it into an empty net.
Is that a goal?
I said at the time it should've been a Madrid free-kick. If the ref deemed no foul on Ronaldo (which is possible but I feel wrong) then he made the right call. If he did think it was a foul (which it probably was) he should played advantage until Mascherano was fouled then brought it back for a Madrid free-kick.
What if Mascherano falls down and trips Higuain??
Somebody explains this new rule to me please.. If a player gets tripped, he gets the right to trip a player from the other team for free, and still have the advantage??
Then it would be a free kick for the foul on Ronaldo, blatantly.What if Mascherano falls down and trips Higuain??
Well Madrid would still have the advantage for Ronaldo being fouled, so that's an advantage, simple.Somebody explains this new rule to me please.. If a player gets tripped, he gets the right to trip a player from the other team for free, and still have the advantage??
Advantage ends the moment Ronaldo commits a foul.
For God's sake, Ronaldo didn't commit a foul, Pique did, and Masscherano's dive through a slight clip from Ronaldo was entirely the fault of Pique.
Which means the minimum Madrid should get is that free kick, it would also mean Piqué denied a clear goalscoring opportunity and should be shown a red.
Yes to the first bit (assuming the ref thought Pique fouled Ronaldo - he didn't though)
Absolutely no chance to the red card. How obvious do you need it to be that there was a covering defender? Ronaldo literally fell on top of him.
Yes, he did.
Unless Ronaldo didn't foul Mascharano which he didn't. One there was very little contact and two the defender dived.
Why have such passion for these cheating twats I have no idea. You have shown clear bias as consistently as the referee's you needn't even post because its already clear what you are going to say on every barca related issue.
How can Ronaldo foul when he was clearly brought down by Pique?
On the couple of occasions Madrid had the ball in forward positions they either got fouled but the referee missed it or Barca were given a foul for nothing.
I'm not sure about the reasons but it stinks That football cannot appear fair to neutrals like me who just like watching good football and don't mind who wins.
It makes you dislike Barca but it is not their fault. Although not perfect they tried to be more last night and most of the 'dark arts' seemed to be coming from the ref, not RM or Barca.
There was no goalscoring opportunity when Ronaldo was fouled. It was him falling onto Mascherano that made it one. Yellow would have been apt.
Given that logic then intention must be the key. Can it be a foul then when a player goes to challenge another player but slips before he gets there and takes the player downn, albeit unintentionally? That wouldn't be in his control either. I think it's just pragmatic not to allow them to gain an advantage from it.
Mascherano was never catching up with Higuain/the ball though, so it was a goalscoring opportunity.
Ballague just saying that Mourinho was talking to some of the staff via text message, allowing him to communicate without UEFA actually being able to prove it, also an apparent phone call at half time.
I have absolutely no "passion" for Barcelona, nor any reason to be biased. Is that really so hard for people to accept?Unless Ronaldo didn't foul Mascharano which he didn't. One there was very little contact and two the defender dived.
Why have such passion for these cheating twats I have no idea. You have shown clear bias as consistently as the referee's you needn't even post because its already clear what you are going to say on every barca related issue.
How can Ronaldo foul when he was clearly brought down by Pique?
On the couple of occasions Madrid had the ball in forward positions they either got fouled but the referee missed it or Barca were given a foul for nothing.
I'm not sure about the reasons but it stinks That football cannot appear fair to neutrals like me who just like watching good football and don't mind who wins.
It makes you dislike Barca but it is not their fault. Although not perfect they tried to be more last night and most of the 'dark arts' seemed to be coming from the ref, not RM or Barca.
I do find myself defending them a lot on here because of the overwhelming bitterness they provoke from most on here, due to a combination of Ronaldo fans throwing their lot behind Madrid and what seems to be jealousy for the team that seems to be head and shoulders the best in Europe these last few years. Which seems to piss a lot of caftards off. To be honest, I don't even watch much Spanish football. I've watched a bit more than usual this year but no more than 3 or 3 non-CL games in total. Hardly the actions of a Barca fan, eh? I don't think I could even name their first-team squad fwiw.
I absolutely agree their gamesmanship is, at times, embarrassing. I also think that every club has at least an element of this in their own team, including United. Hence I find the more extreme grand-standing to be a wee bit hypocritical. No doubt Barca are a lot worse than United in this regard but what's that they say about casting the first stone?
Who cares though? If it helps for you to think of me as a closet Barca fan, go right ahead. The content of my posts still stands. Feel free to address them.
Which offence, exactly, prevented Higuain from getting a goal-scoring opportunity?
I'm not thinking you're a closet barca fan I'm just reading the posts. I find hard to understand the view you have taken on the incident.
It was a freekick to RM or allow advantage and the goal to stand. Mascharano should have been punished for his dive by letting the game carry on and the goal stand imo.
No way was it only a foul by Ronaldo and therefore a freekick to Barca.
I did address you're post with my reply I thought.
By "address the content of my post" I was kind of hoping you wouldn't repeat the same points that have been gone over at least a dozen times already. Have a browse of the last few pages for a response.
On a corner, Vidic pushes an opposition player down who bundles over VDS, the ball goes on and ends up in the back of the net while VDS is still on the ground, yet it would be the player that got pushed into VDS that is called for a foul?
Mind boggling if you believe that would be the case.
Pique pushing Ronaldo over and as a result of him falling onto Mascherano isn't a case of Ronaldo fouling anyone. The ref simply didn't spot the foul by Pique, he didn't play an advantage - he fell for Masch's theatrics and like he did for most of the Barca players on the night.
Mind boggling if you believe that would be the case.
Pique pushing Ronaldo over and as a result of him falling onto Mascherano isn't a case of Ronaldo fouling anyone. The ref simply didn't spot the foul by Pique, he didn't play an advantage - he fell for Masch's theatrics and like he did for most of the Barca players on the night.
That's an entirely different situation. In your example the ref would give a penalty for the push, not the goal.
Eh? What if he didn't notice the first push? That's exactly what happened last night. I'm not arguing over anything other than the referee made a seriously bad call in not seeing the foul on Ronaldo or if he did see it not thinking that it was a foul, yet also saw a foul on Puyol that was never a foul in the first place. The goal was a valid one, the ref fecked up! That goal could have changed the entire complexion of the match.
Well obviously I premised what I said on him seeing the push. If he didn't then he'd give the free kick to the keeper.
But I agree to a point, it was a foul on Ronaldo. But I also think he unintentionally fouls Mascherano, despite Mascherano's theatrics. So the free kick should have been awarded to Real as him bringing down Mascherano ends the advantage. I can't point to laws of the game to say that's how it should be but I think giving them a goal in that situation isn't right either.
Spot on. Agree 100%.
I have NO doubt, had it been Messi or any other Barcelona player who threw himself like a dead man like Ronaldo did after the slightest of touches (if any) from Pique, you'd see a clip of that everywhere here under the title: "Dive of the year, man up sissy!"
Besides, Ronaldo didn't "unintentionally" trip Mascherano, he knew exactly what he was doing, he didn't even complain at the time, and that's Ronaldo we are talking about.. That says it all!
When people start making up rules (unintentional foul = no foul, advantage involves the right to trip an opponent player, ...etc.) then you know it's not a football debate anymore.. Just frustrated people getting it off their chest.
But what I find most interesting, those people who hate Barcelona that much are actually the ones who deep inside are writing off our chances if we meet them in the final. Deep inside you think there is NO way we can beat them in the final, so you are getting your excuses prepared beforehand, so we won't be called "sore losers" after losing to them, because well, we were already saying the same things before the game! I think it's pathetic.
Let's be rational, have faith in our team, and enjoy the victory if we get it, or just accept it if we lose, and not taint our club's reputation like Mourinho did to Madrid.
Watch it again, Pique made absolutely zero attempt to play the ball, it was a classic body check (even using the full length of the arm in front of Ronaldo), and that is a foul!
If you think otherwise, then you're a divvy!
Not really, you remember whathisface Arsenal goalie fouling Blackpool player who went onto score, had he missed, it would have been called back. If in the hypothetical I gave, the ball ends up at opposition team player, ref isn't going to blow for the initial foul and certainly won't call a foul on the player that got pushed into VDS.
Mascherano really has the most punchable face in the world. Looking at the referee while wailing and rolling on the floor at the same time, bloody hell
That said, i thought Messi ought to be given a little credit in that team among all the cnuts to be fair. Tried to stay on his feet and jumping over challenges. Certainly withstood a few tough challenges last night
That said, i thought Messi ought to be given a little credit in that team among all the cnuts to be fair. Tried to stay on his feet and jumping over challenges. Certainly withstood a few tough challenges last night
I would disagree with that bit in bold. I don't think Ronaldo went down with the intention of taking Mascherano out.
I think he was either genuinely tripped up and could do nothing to stop himself falling the way he did, or he looked for contact to try and win himself a free-kick and flung himself on the deck after minimal contact from Pique (as he is wont to do). I'm inclined towards the latter scenario but could easily understand why someone would go with the former.
Either way, it was pure fluke that he landed on Mascherano IMO. Still a foul, mind.
The scenario you gave is not the same as the Blackpool one at all. That's a straightforward use of the advantage.
What you just came up with is a goal as a direct result of the keeper being taken out due to an opposition player accidentally running into him. That's either a free-kick to the keeper or (assuming the ref saw the push by Vidic) a penalty. For the millionth time, a foul does not have to be intentional in order for it to be a free-kick.
Honestly, why are you all making this so much more complicated than it needs to be?