I agree that he has been mostly poor so far for us, but it is weird that he almost always looks pretty solid and reliable for Sweden!? Hell, he even looks like the cool ballplaying defender we thought we bought at times! Must be something with the communication and the way we choose to defend as a team at United.
2
Season Average Rating
- Appearances
- 47
- Clean sheets
- 19
- Goals
- 1
- Assists
- 1
- Yellow cards
- 6
- Status
No Victor you should have dealt with it better...
Its weird you say that about Italy. With defending physicality is as much as anywhere else, its called good defending when you are body to body with your man and holding on. Smalling is doing very well there, Koulibaly is considered the best CB there, physical CBs
Let’s hope so! I really like the look of Tuanzebe so I’d be delighted to see him claim the spot next to Maguire.
That isn´t really any measurement of this is it? He also played most of the games last season when we shipped 60 goals? So with that logic it seems that AWB and Maguire have contribute to us shipping fewer goals.
He would have been brilliant under LVG.
I’ve never been that impressed with Lindeloff...what exactly does he excel at? He’s slow, he’s weak, he’s decent on the ball but nothing special, he’s sub par in aerial duels. He’s not going to learn how to jump higher or run faster any time soon, but he sure as heck can get stronger. Dude needs to hit the weight room massively next off season or send him packing bc he is constantly getting manhandled by smaller strikers which is completely unacceptable.
Lindelöf is an intelligent defender. He will be more appreciated by some, less by others. He was our best defender last season, both under Mourinho and under Solskjær. He is Sweden’s best defender. He has made some errors this season (someone will highlight that sentence, but not the next), but less than any of our orher defenders, and than most top defenders in the league.
He is one of the reasons our defense has been one of the best in the league so far, despite injuries to Wan-Bissaka, Dalot, Shaw, Jones and Tuanzebe.
I think a back 3 of Lindelof, Maguire and Tuanzebe could've been really interesting, shame we didn't get to see it in action. Let's hope Tuanzebe recovers from his injury quickly, it's been said to death but Lindelof needs to get past this run of form, on paper Tuanzebe has eerily similar qualities but without the physical limitations.
He's made more in a couple of weeks than AWB or Maguire have overall. Probably Shaw too
This may be true, but I think he still needs to change the way he plays fundamentally in order to be a good fit for a top side.
Especially with 1-on-1 duels.
Mane got a huge advantage because of the handball.
He should have dealt with it better initially but Lindelof putting pressure on Mane is partially why it hit Mane's hand and then the only reason Mane was able to get around him so easily was because of the deflection off his hand. People are being way too negative about a goal that was correctly ruled out.
I'm not trying to say he had a great game or anything but I think people are making way too much of that situation.
Smalling was better in the first half of the season. Lindelof had that little run of three games where he was excellent (the first Juventus match and two after it IIRC), but otherwise Smalling was better. I do agree Lindelof was our best in the second half of the season though.
Yes but its fair to say that some leagues are more physically demanding than others!
Sure but the defending is certainly very physical in Serie A
It is a good measurement if you interested in results in contrast to more emotional arguments, which we see much of: “he is not tough enough for PL” etc.
If you are result driven and value conceded goals, United defence has been one of the best so far. A poor team like United does not get a good defensive record if one of the CBs is crap. Simple as that.
Of course there is room for emotional argument too, Football is after all entertainment. People didn’t like Mourinho despite he got the best results in years. A lot of people like the old school CB who fast and tough. Many people enjoy a good tackle. Nothing wrong with that.
Last season was poor defensively. It seems like it has been upgraded with Maguire and Bissaka. It is still too early to fully evaluate but it looks good so far. No need to argue for new CBs to replace Lindelof. At least not now with one of the best defensive records in the league, and one of the worst goal scoring.
I'm talking about right after the Manes handball, when Victor had his body between Mane and the ball, but Mane got passed him anyway.
But anyway, I thought he played well and he's a good defender. Just is a bit weak sometimes in challenges...
One of those players has been helping Roma with their clean sheets so he might even be no worse than the soft Swede. But if you really think he has had a lot to do with our defensive stats then I think we should just agree to disagree on this one .
Sorry, but I am not exactly sure what you refer to. One of those players? Do you mean that Smalling now has been replaced by Maguire?
It is good Smalling had two clean sheets in his first four matches, agree. However if that is some kind of measure who is the best, Lindelof has two clean sheets in his last five matches (two of them were against Arsenal and Liverpool). Not a big difference.
But you are demonstrating what I mean with emotional arguments when you call him “the soft Swede”. Again, nothing wrong with preferring tough last minute ditch tackling centrebacks. Personally, when I watch ice hockey I hate those small technical players. I prefer big bad ass players who can tackle. For football I prefer clean defenders.
standard of international games is lower. Teams are less prepared and less coached. No transfers means most teams have weaknesses that would be addressed in a league system.
Why do you call that an "emotional argument"?
I think any objective person would suggest Lindelof is on the soft side of CBs in the premier league. Now you being upset that someone says that? That's emotional.
The situation looked weird partly because of the handball, but also because he expected DDG to grab the ball as he held back Mane, but DDG stayed back and didn't do anything.
It is rather odd though that we have conceded among the least and scored among the fewest, yet a defender gets the blame. Disregard the first match and we have scored 6 goals in 8 games. That is simply not enough to be a top league contender. Conceding 9 goals in 9 games however is not bad at all. Could be better but it is way good enough for the top 3 if only we were scoring some goals.
I don't understand the actual Lindelöf bashing this season. I agree he was better last season but if we take Chelsea (H) and Wolves (A) he was very solid, this is our partnership with Maguire, with time it will be our best one for a long time.
I can't stand people who keep choosing scapegoat week in and week out, get behind the team.
I can't stand people who keep choosing scapegoat week in and week out, get behind the team.
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Not the slightest upset, on contrary I think those arguments are fully valid. Football is entertainment for many people and a fat tackle from Rojo could be entertaining. Also many people grow up with the perception that a CB must be strong otherwise he is soft. Then on the other hand you have people who don’t care as all they want is a defence that concede as few goals as possible and can handle the ball smoothly.
I dont think anyone who suggests Lindelof is a bit soft for the premier league wants the exact polar opposite and another Bailly, Rojo or old Jones flying in with reckless challenges.
They probably just want someone with Lindelof's best qualities, but without being a push over physically as thats what people were hoping we'd get when we bought Lindelof and lost Blind.
I'd say he played pretty well against Spain, and they are very good side even if they are in transition.
He didn't have any big strong forwards to grapple with though which helps.
Still think it is mostly a different type of football in England that just doesn't suit him. Axel just seems better suited for it imo.
Just an example. It is clear than many people dislike Lindelof despite the good defensive results this season. He is not the traditional old school PL CB. Even after a good game people dislike him because they think he is not physical enough. I remember when Tuanzebe posted some arranged shirtless gym photos on social media, and fans who hadn’t even seen him play, wanted him in the starting XI because he “has got everything the soft Swede lacks” kind of. Hilarious.
A lot of posters disliked Smalling and Jones despite us having a much better defensive record 2 seasons ago than this season.
The expected standards are extremely high but its been that way for years. Since we were spoilt with Rio and Vidic together. This isnt something new just for Lindelof, its been the same for all CBs after those guys. So its just consistency.
Yes I remember I thought it was very unfair as Smalling was one of the absolute best CBs in the league two seasons ago. Also very unfair he wasn’t picked for the national team imo.
Being an old giant of club with a lot of trophies is a curse when the results are bad. Fans are like old tragic high school captains, thinking back at the good old days and not being able to accept that the sport has evolved. But also it goes to the extreme in forums like this. Fans writing here are not representative for the average United supporter.
And we also need a top quality LB, and probably two top quality CM's, a top class RW and a probably a top class CF as well, along with getting rid of the absolute floaters in this team like Rojo, Jones, Fred and Matic and replace them with reliable, quality squad options. This is also without having to replace Pogba.
Is Lindelof the answer to our problems? No. But he's also not the root cause. You don't ignore the rotting ceiling in your house in favour of upgrading your couch because you don't really like it that much. When we fix everything else that's wrong with the team, then we can focus on the smaller issues. Tuanzebe might be the answer in the long run, and that's great if he is, but he's inexperienced and like Lindelof is not great in the air and his reading of the game isn't at the level required just yet but against the likes of Newcastle had the power to recover. Against top teams that might not be the case.
Lindelof had some fantastic performances last season, and this season we have been defending relatively well, but seem to concede from the few chances teams manage to create against us. Our problem is our complete lack of control in the middle and lack of goal threat up front, which causes us to drift in games and give the impetus to the opposition too often. If we were winning games but not keeping clean sheets I doubt this would be as much of an issue.
I agree that he's probably not good enough, but can become a reliable, above average CB who is a really good squad option in my opinion. Would rather see him in the team at the moment instead of Bailly, Rojo or Jones, which I know isn't much of an endorsement but that's just where we are right now. Fill in the gaping holes first, then focus on the cracks
This is why I look at our defending with a fine tooth comb. Because I saw how high the standard of expectation was for our CBs and how perfect they were expected to be, because they werent as good as Vidic and Ferdinand and maybe also because Jones and Smalling arent very fancy players. Not to say that Jones doesnt also make mistakes but they had a good record, for the most part that counts.
I simply apply the same standards to all of our CBs whether its one I rate or one I dont particularly rate. But either way its high expectations and I'll admit that too. I'd imagine that if Lindelof was at Chelsea or Arsenal or someone like that, I still wouldnt rate him that highly but I doubt I'd even mention him or pick out his mistakes that often because its not happening at the club I support.
Like for example I don't rate Sokratis or Zouma. And I thought Christensen had a lot of potential when he was like 19 but not sure I rate him now and Rudiger doesnt seem to be all that these days either. But I dont really need to mention these other players because they arent at United so it doesnt matter that I dont rate them either. But if any of them were at United instead of Lindelof I'd be pointing out all their mistakes too.
There is only one of us getting emotional and it ain't me that's for sure. If me saying he is soft is in anyway or form an emotional statement I can rephrase that if that is needed. But I am absolutely sure not one attacker in the PL having sleepless nights before playing him.
I understand what you mean and this is kind of what I mean that it is a curse to be a big club when things are going bad. The forensic look at the CBs is only one example, where people look so much at details instead of looking at the whole.
All respect to old legends and to what they have accomplished, but the game has changed the last 5-10 years and you expect much more from a FB or CB today. Also the competition is stronger. Therefore I don’t see much point with comparing today’s players with those from 2009. They were great in their time, but that’s it.
I don’t really care if he keeps the forwards sleepless, as long he continues to keep them goalless I’m happy.
Surely a fair opinion, though I disagree myself. It depends on taste a bit and horses for courses as well. Lindelöf needs someone like Smalling, Maguire or Tuanzebe (soonish) by his side, a duelmaster. However, Smalling is not a good team defender, ie, he plays on his one-on-one qualities but is way to unaware of the functioning of the entire back section. I don’t think I’m the only one who sensed some frustration from Mourinho about that, frustration Lindelöf didn’t get. I love Smalling, though it still seems to me he could have been the worlds best defender had he not skipped a couple of very essential classes in his youth on how to pass and how to keep structure in a defence. I agree he was good in autumn, I just weigh their pros and cons a bit differently.
Lindelöf is generally a player that makes his partners function better, if the defense is at all well structured. He made a 33 year old Granquist almost retired from Russian football look a worldie in the WC.
If the defensive instincts of a CB is far superior than another CB who excels at keeping shape or passing, I'll always come back to a defender like that to give him praise because a lot of the invisible work gets done by a guy like that. You'll see very few mistakes from players with that natural defending instincts, and it makes them usually more reliable even if they do lack knowledge in shape or disiplin. It's why a player like David Luiz can look amazing on his day, when his instincts is right, he is so undisciplined and hot headed he rarely keeps consistent form and rarely is on his best game generally but sometimes he is on his game and he has very good instincts. It carries him, imo. Without it he wouldn't even have such a big career due to consistant average positioning, reading of the game etc.
Not really. 20 years ago yes, but 10 years ago they would have been fine. Off the top of my head I don't remember any of the truly top defenders of 10 years ago who wouldn't be able to handle the changes that have happened. Rio would love it. Even the likes of Vidic and Terry, players who are generally thought of as being the muscle, were easily good enough on the ball to be fine today (maybe Vidic in his first couple of seasons might struggle occasionally, but he improved). As long as they can pass the ball decently well and aren't prone to panic they would be fine (maybe I'm forgetting a few that wouldn't be). And all the top fullbacks of the time were great on the ball and provided a great deal of attacking impetus. It's midfielders and attackers where the game has probably changed more, with the emphasis on pressing high requiring them to do a lot more high-impact running. Some would handle that fine, some might struggle a little with the added physicality that is expected.
The competition as a fullback might be stronger, but centreback definitely isn't. Until the emergence of VVD it was probably the weakest field of centreback's that I can remember.
Lindelof is like a nice rich kid with all the fancy toys, but when the bad boys come and rip it all apart, he looks dejected and helpless.
He needs to learn to be more aggressive, that's the key aspect of his game he needs to improve. Massively.
He needs to learn to be more aggressive, that's the key aspect of his game he needs to improve. Massively.
Vidic had a mean long pass. Could pass it with accuracy either foot.
I think I get what you’re pointing at, personally I’m inclined to think that it’s more a question of instincts than one particular instinct. I do think that many more instinctual players (attacking as defensive) are really dependent on having at least a few players around them who are intelligent, well versed in the tactical ideas of their play and disciplined. Sanchez and Luiz being two examples. There is nothing much worse than hot headed and simultaneously confused David Luis.
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