It's not for me to say what others find offensive but i certainly don't understand why not wanting to get changed in front of people who *may* check you out is offensive? That seems a very accepted social norm. Assuming they're checking everyone out might be.That is not the same scenario though is it?
If a group of players share the same space, shower together consistently and then one of them comes out as gay and you’re then concerned about them looking at you just because you’re a man and they’re gay then yeah, it’s offensive.
I don't know about the stats for fully gay but there's next to no chance only 1 in 50 men like other men to some degree or another (likewise women/women), bisexuality/fluidity is a lot more common than people think/are lead to believe.If only about 1 in 50 men are gay and we know that gay men are massively over represented in certain professions, such as hair dressing, flight attendants and actors etc, then how can "a lot of footballers come out?" Surely we'd expect gay men to be under represented in top level pro football. There is a good chance there genuinely is only 1 or 2 in the Prem, yet I get the impression a lot of people think about 10% of footballers are in the closet.
Deeney may never have came across a gay person in his life, openly showering together might take a little while getting used to, without actually being unaccepting of the player coming out?That's a shocking thing to say.
According to the ONS it's about 2%.I don't know about the stats for fully gay but there's next to no chance only 1 in 50 men like other men to some degree or another (likewise women/women), bisexuality/fluidity is a lot more common than people think/are lead to believe.
there’s more than one though isn't there!According to the ONS it's about 2%.
https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopula...ity/sexuality/bulletins/sexualidentityuk/2016
And gay men to tend to be over represented in certain professions.
https://gaynation.co/gay-jobs-stereotype-more-than-just-a-myth-research-finds/
So it is extremely likely that there are way less gay footballers than people believe.
Did they ask everybody in the country? How big is this datasetAccording to the ONS it's about 2%.
https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopula...ity/sexuality/bulletins/sexualidentityuk/2016
And gay men to tend to be over represented in certain professions.
https://gaynation.co/gay-jobs-stereotype-more-than-just-a-myth-research-finds/
So it is extremely likely that there are way less gay footballers than people believe.
there’s more than one though isn't there!
Pretty much what i meant by my post above. What Deeney was saying just reflects the awkwardness of the current situation but the solution is make the environment more tolerable and modernise so its not an issue to start with. It's not to ignore the situation and criticise those views.This has been solved by Doug Stanhope already.
then add in the other 70/71 league clubs, and every other league in Europe. How many professionals is that?If there are 500 Prem footballers, not including youth players. Then there could be as little as one. Gay men genuinely do gravitate towards certain professions, so it makes sense that they'd be under represented in other professions.
There must be 20 make posters in this thread already. It would be interesting to know if anyone who has posted so far is gay?
No it isn't. It shows he's a bit ignorant but it isn't hate-fueled.That's a shocking thing to say.
A million people. I think it's by far the biggest poll done in the UK. You often see smaller samples come back with results like 4% or 5%, but when expanded to serious numbers, by the ONS, it came back as about 2%.Did they ask everybody in the country? How big is this dataset
You sound in denial of reality. Do you not like the idea of gay footballers?If there are 500 Prem footballers, not including youth players. Then there could be as little as one. Gay men genuinely do gravitate towards certain professions, so it makes sense that they'd be under represented in other professions.
There must be 20 make posters in this thread already. It would be interesting to know if anyone who has posted so far is gay?
Yea thats what i think. He can still be openly accepting of a gay team mate, but not knowing how to act, especially in open showers, isnt homophobic, its just an unknown situation, that the team might need to have an open conversation about with the player to understand them better and hopefully see, that its not an issue moving forward.No it isn't. It shows he's a bit ignorant but it isn't hate-fueled.
then add in the other 70/71 league clubs, and every other league in Europe. How many professionals is that?
it’s clear and obvious (and not the VAR definition), that there gay footballers who are scared to come out.
Or, you know, just take a fecking shower like always?Yea thats what i think. He can still be openly accepting of a gay team mate, but not knowing how to act, especially in open showers, isnt homophobic, its just an unknown situation, that the team might need to have an open conversation about with the player to understand them better and hopefully see, that its not an issue moving forward.
Not everyone knows the correct way to act in certain situations or environments or whatever, but that doesnt mean they are some sort of ....ist or ....phobe i dont think
Is that fully gay or does that account for bisexuality aswell?According to the ONS it's about 2%.
https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopula...ity/sexuality/bulletins/sexualidentityuk/2016
And gay men to tend to be over represented in certain professions.
https://gaynation.co/gay-jobs-stereotype-more-than-just-a-myth-research-finds/
So it is extremely likely that there are way less gay footballers than people believe.
Can it not be understood that someone that possibly has never came across a gay person in their life, just might not be 100 percent sure about certain situations without a bit of education first?Or, you know, just take a fecking shower like always?
I think it's everything.Is that fully gay or does that account for bisexuality aswell?
I live in a quite backwards area of the country and even with that handicap about 1/3 of the people I know have done something with their own sex (ranging from kissing to marriage) at some point, and that's just from what I've found out/been told.
I just can't envisage 98% of people being fully Hetro, it just doesn't atall seem likely.
Why wouldn't the gay player understand the situation? Why does he have to be offended over something so easy understand? It seems like legislated offense.
If I were in a changing room with a bunch of ugly women, but they wondered if I was objectifying them, I wouldn't be offended, I'd understand it. I'm sure gay men would too if they weren't actively encouraged to be offended which is seems like they and many other "oppressed" groups are by this crazy secular religion which is currently dominating western culture.
In the scenario that Deeney/Theroux were talking about it is a player that is already in the squad that then comes out as gay. If they wanted to check you out or look at you, they've already done so. They don't wake up gay and then suddenly decide to start checking out everyone in the dressing room. You've been fine sharing a shower and dressing room with that person when you didn't know that they were gay but they were gay, so why is it suddenly an issue when they're open about being gay. Their feelings won't change on how they perceive you with or without you knowing.It's not for me to say what others find offensive but i certainly don't understand why not wanting to get changed in front of people who *may* check you out is offensive? That seems a very accepted social norm. Assuming they're checking everyone out might be.
There's plenty of genuine issues and this one feels very manufactured. The fact the football culture is Lads Lads Lads is the bigger issue its not a very tolerable environment.
In the scenario posed they've came across someone gay already, they just haven't come out yet.Can it not be understood that someone that possibly has never came across a gay person in their life, just might not be 100 percent sure about certain situations without a bit of education first?
That must be it. There is no way I could simply disagree with the idea there are lots of gay of footballers, based on logic and reason.You sound in denial of reality. Do you not like the idea of gay footballers?
Very doubtful.Statistically there's probably at least one gay footballer in every PL squad.
The problem for the first player is that it will make the news for a few days, and he will, get alot of attention, not all bad attention, but from his point of view, I guess, he is asking himself why should be should be the 'Bosman'. People growing up in the 80s and 90s, were actively taught to be homophobic. And yet as times have changed, even many of those have fundamentally changed their opinion and views on the subject. And those who haven't just come across as deeply ignorant and out of touch. But most millennials and GenZ have had a very different cultural education.It's sad reading that letter. I hope he gets the support he needs and manages to find peace within himself. The fact he thinks he has to retire from the game he loves before he can come out is a shocking indictment on the game.
That Deeney is a bellend who would be in prison if not for his ability to kick a football.What do you mean by this?
That’s a good point. I know a Lesbian footballer myself (not Todd Cantwell). I guess society as a whole has a different attitude towards lesbianism perhaps.Very doubtful.
Football squads and the country's demographics rarely match.
If they did, then around 8% of the England NT, or 2 in the 23 man squad would be of fully Asian descent. But it's 0% and has always been 0%. Frank Soo was only half-Asian.
Culture matters. I think the homophobic male football culture has discouraged, demoralized and distracted a lot of homosexual boys/men that might've otherwise made it as professional.
Lesbians on the other hand seem to be overrepresented in women's football.
Do you think EPL football players and match going fans are majority vocally homophobic?Very doubtful.
Football squads and the country's demographics rarely match.
If they did, then around 8% of the England NT, or 2 in the 23 man squad would be of fully Asian descent. But it's 0% and has always been 0%. Frank Soo was only half-Asian.
Culture matters. I think the homophobic male football culture has discouraged, demoralized and distracted a lot of homosexual boys/men that might've otherwise made it professionally.
Lesbians on the other hand seem to be overrepresented in women's football.
And if that occurred, points deductions should take place - it'd soon be weeded out.Sad world when a player can't come out. However, I don't think any player should. One perceived dive in an away ground and the abuse will be unbearable.
If internet comments were representative of real society we'd be punching and shouting at everyone we see all day every day.Just read the comments on facebook when the PL or United have the rainbow on their profile picture.
"keep politics out of football" , "god made Adam and Eve, not Adam and Steve", and so on.
Unfortunately i don't think it's safe to come out yet.
Yeah, I'd also trust the gay folks ability to assess others innocent insecurity and accept that as a positive part of the change, and differentiate between those moments and more vicious treatment . As long as he is supported when speaking up or others speak up if that happens, it'll be fine I'd imagine. I'd trust the gay guys to take a fair bit of ridicule without a load of nonsense, but the problem lies with how they are supported when it really matters. Right now they have no trust in that any leader will have their back, and you can't blame them.Can it not be understood that someone that possibly has never came across a gay person in their life, just might not be 100 percent sure about certain situations without a bit of education first?
The idea that anyone from the UK in their 30s has had no interaction with a gay person is pretty far fetched but for Deeney, it's just wrong. He's spoken many times about how Elton John calls him up after big games to congratulate him on goals.Can it not be understood that someone that possibly has never came across a gay person in their life, just might not be 100 percent sure about certain situations without a bit of education first?
Sadly there's absolutely no chance that's the case.If internet comments were representative of real society we'd be punching and shouting at everyone we see all day every day.
I'd like to think 99% of football fans would be supportive of any gay player.
Do other fans that disagree not feel able to confront these?You can only imagine the terrace abuse from oppostion fans. I hate some of the stuff that gets chanted now and it's not even about me.
