Mason Greenwood | Please be respectful and stay on topic

Litch

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adexkola said:
Yeah this doesn't make any sense.

Abusers aren't going, "Mason Greenwood isn't playing for United. Best I not go threatening women with rape".

Neither did they go, "Getafe signed Greenwood! Here we go!" enroute to threatening women with rape.

Horrible people playing football is simply proof of their abilities and the willingness of a club to offer them money for their services. It's nothing deeper than that.
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Yep but again the fundamental point keeps being missed time and time again, people are talking like hes was convicted, been in prison and whether utd should be offering him a contract on his release.

I have no interest in him coming back, the club is a circus enough and I dont think Greenwood has the right mentality, personality or maturity to be a long term utd player. I think there will be other 'drama's' and we"ll be here again.

I think he should be sold and build his career away from this country, but not because I think hes done it or not, because trial by redcafe, other platforms and the media have already decided he has.

That will never go away and I can only imagine the posts when has a bad game.
 

Eli Zee

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STYLOISRED said:
Not trying to attack you or anything of the sort but this paragraph makes me really curious. Why does everyone dismiss the family's decision or resolve in the whole matter?? It's all about Greenwood and the CPS. It's almost as if we have resigned to believing that the lady is incapable of being self sufficient or unable to resist Greenwood or that the entire family are perfectly ok with her being with him. These are the people who have intimate details of these entire case and seemed to have all moved on.
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It isn't hard to imagine the reason.... money.

date a regular person.... date a rich footballer.... work a regular job... never work a day in your life.

People do more for less.
 

moses

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I have no idea either, yet.
adexkola said:
I agree it's extremely shallow, and deliberately so. Football is too useless and inconsequential to handle matters of such societal importance.
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I disagree, it's a potentially super platform. Football fans have a voice, the lack of depth is in that voice unfortunately. It's people, no point hiding behind 'football' as some abstact entity.
 

Peter van der Gea

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Eli Zee said:
It isn't hard to imagine the reason.... money.

date a regular person.... date a rich footballer.... work a regular job... never work a day in your life.

People do more for less.
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People forget, even in the western world until a few generations ago, arranged marriages by the patriarchs of the family or tribe were the norm, often to the detriment of those being married, but beneficial to the family. Possibly even a dowry.

It was normal to effectively sell your child for your own gain, and people haven't changed that much in a few generations.

It is possible, especially after seeing the father's first tweet, that the family of the alleged victim also pressured the alleged victim to drop the case, for their own benefit
 

Wibble

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Litch said:
Yep but again the fundamental point keeps being missed time and time again, people are talking like hes was convicted, been in prison and whether utd should be offering him a contract on his release.
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Quite literally nobody is saying that.
 

Redlambs

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Wibble said:
Quite literally nobody is saying that.
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Absolutely. And once again, it's everybody else's fault.

Not the fault of the guy who told us he "made mistakes" that led to this situation. Not the club for the shockingly bad mismanagement. But the fault of people who saw the evidence and question it and will always continue to do so because the guy who started this and the club are hiding the answers away.

You know, the same fans that the Glazers and club famously listen to.
 

Litch

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Redlambs said:
Absolutely. And once again, it's everybody else's fault.

Not the fault of the guy who told us he "made mistakes" that led to this situation. Not the club for the shockingly bad mismanagement. But the fault of people who saw the evidence and question it and will always continue to do so because the guy who started this and the club are hiding the answers away.

You know, the same fans that the Glazers and club famously listen to.
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Yep, I guess it all comes down to respecting difference of fans opinion cause ultimately the only people that know for certain is Greenwood and his girlfriend.

Ive read him being called a rapist, hardly questioning.

Yep the evidence is out there but its clearly not enough that the CPS felt could lead to a conviction, and clearly not enough that the evidence could stand on its own irrespective of whether those involved wanted to retract their statements or not.
Given the profile of the case and the cost, even more so.

Im sure there are people on here with a better understanding of the law, why wasnt it taken to court based on it being in the publics interest and safety to do so even if she or others are saying he didnt do or say it?
 

BeforeKeanetherewasRobson

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Litch said:
Yep, I guess it all comes down to respecting difference of fans opinion cause ultimately the only people that know for certain is Greenwood and his girlfriend.

Ive read him being called a rapist, hardly questioning.

Yep the evidence is out there but its clearly not enough that the CPS felt could lead to a conviction, and clearly not enough that the evidence could stand on its own irrespective of whether those involved wanted to retract their statements or not.
Given the profile of the case and the cost, even more so.

Im sure there are people on here with a better understanding of the law, why wasnt it taken to court based on it being in the publics interest and safety to do so even if she or others are saying he didnt do or say it?
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CPS have still got to think there’s a reasonable prospect of a conviction.
 

TsuWave

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BeforeKeanetherewasRobson said:
CPS have still got to think there’s a reasonable prospect of a conviction.
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"A court heard last October a central plank in the inquiry had collapsed only four months after Greenwood was arrested. It is understood that police and prosecutors initially decided to continue with the case because of the significant level of public interest, given Greenwood’s high profile and the seriousness of the allegations.

But a review of the case by CPS lawyers has concluded that there was no realistic prospect of conviction given the collapse of the case."

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news...ors-drop-alleged-case-against-mason-greenwood
 

BeforeKeanetherewasRobson

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Litch said:
Which then leads me to think the evidence we all seen, was the weakest part of the investigation?
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I think it’s a combination of that, the fact there was new evidence (rumours suggest a longer/fuller video which maybe changed the context) and witness withdrawal (presumably his girlfriend).

In isolation, I think everyone including CPS thought completely clear and would get a guilty verdict. But if new evidence casts doubt on it (and key witness withdraws), you can imagine Greenwood’s lawyers would be able to create doubt (as a minimum). If the CPS felt that that doubt would be considerable and unlikely to get a guilty verdict, they’d pull out.

(*Note the thinks and rumours. I don’t know)
 

Litch

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BeforeKeanetherewasRobson said:
I think it’s a combination of that, the fact there was new evidence (rumours suggest a longer/fuller video which maybe changed the context) and witness withdrawal (presumably his girlfriend).

In isolation, I think everyone including CPS thought completely clear and would get a guilty verdict. But if new evidence casts doubt on it (and key witness withdraws), you can imagine Greenwood’s lawyers would be able to create doubt (as a minimum). If the CPS felt that that doubt would be considerable and unlikely to get a guilty verdict, they’d pull out.

(*Note the thinks and rumours. I don’t know)
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Yep, it certainly looked that way and something clearly significant changed the direction of travel of the investigation.
 

OleGunnar20

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While I get the temptation to bring him back based on his ability alone, putting morality aside for the sake of football is the sign of very twisted priorities, in my opinion.

I've supported and loved this club since I first started watching football as a kid, but would not support any team with this guy playing. I'm sure there's plenty that feel the same, and likely plenty more that disagree.

I don't see an issue with selling him on though personally, if there's a market out there. Is that a moral issue? Maybe, but I see that as the right side of the line.
 

dutchred

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OleGunnar20 said:
While I get the temptation to bring him back based on his ability alone, putting morality aside for the sake of football is the sign of very twisted priorities, in my opinion.

I've supported and loved this club since I first started watching football as a kid, but would not support any team with this guy playing. I'm sure there's plenty that feel the same, and likely plenty more that disagree.

I don't see an issue with selling him on though personally, if there's a market out there. Is that a moral issue? Maybe, but I see that as the right side of the line.
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While I agree with what you have said, this is a young kid. We all make mistakes. He is now married and has a kid of his own. What about a second chance? He will be ridiculed everywher he plays, but then so was Beckham. It all depends on how well he can handle that.
 

golden_blunder

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dutchred said:
While I agree with what you have said, this is a young kid. We all make mistakes. He is now married and has a kid of his own. What about a second chance? He will be ridiculed everywher he plays, but then so was Beckham. It all depends on how well he can handle that.
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He’s not married
 

Peter van der Gea

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dutchred said:
While I agree with what you have said, this is a young kid. We all make mistakes. He is now married and has a kid of his own. What about a second chance? He will be ridiculed everywher he plays, but then so was Beckham. It all depends on how well he can handle that.
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Hang on. Is he a kid or does he have a kid, make up your mind
 

TheGame

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dutchred said:
While I agree with what you have said, this is a young kid. We all make mistakes. He is now married and has a kid of his own. What about a second chance? He will be ridiculed everywher he plays, but then so was Beckham. It all depends on how well he can handle that.
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How on earth are you comparing this situation to Beckham?
 

Peter van der Gea

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dutchred said:
both
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That makes no sense.

The man was 19 when it happened. The age of criminal responsibility in the UK is 10. That means nearly half of his life, at the time, he was responsible to know that his actions were attempted rape.

Calling him a kid partially justifies his actions, like he didn't know the consequences. He is an adult, he should not have said what we all heard him say.
 

dutchred

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TheGame said:
The reactions are for different reasons though. It will be totally different with Greenwood.
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You are right but Beckham was crucified and handled it very well. He did have Sir Alex behind him all the way. How would it be for Mason?
 

DRJosh

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This thread has got me thinking: apart from Greenwood and the suitability of ETH to continue as United manager, what other divisive topics do we have as a fanbase? It seems we have the most divided fanbase in the Premier league.
 

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SilentWitness said:
You are making a complete nonsense comparison.
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It isn't a nonsense comparison at all. Beckham got dog's abuse. Greenwood most likely would too. The circumstances surrounding both are completely different but the reaction will be just as heated, if not more so. The mental strength of the player would be tested.
 

dutchred

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TheGame said:
It would be a 100 times worse, comparing a sending off to the current situation is nonsensical.
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This is my last word on the subject. Again I was not comparing the actions of Beckham and Mason, I was trying to gauge the reaction of fans (both United and away) to Mason playing agin for United
 

SilentWitness

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Remember the geese said:
It isn't a nonsense comparison at all. Beckham got dog's abuse. Greenwood most likely would too. The circumstances surrounding both are completely different but the reaction will be just as heated, if not more so. The mental strength of the player would be tested.
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Yes, it is a nonsense comparison due to the circumstances of why they received the abuse.
 

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DRJosh said:
This thread has got me thinking: apart from Greenwood and the suitability of ETH to continue as United manager, what other divisive topics do we have as a fanbase? It seems we have the most divided fanbase in the Premier league.
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What does this even mean?

All clubs that go through bad spells have fans questioning the manager. And the fact there's pushback against those who don't give a shit about what players do off the pitch is a good thing.

It's better to be divisive about important issues than be some club like Liverpool who blatantly defend scum behaviour en masse and print t-shirts.


dutchred said:
This is my last word on the subject. Again I was not comparing the actions of Beckham and Mason, I was trying to gauge the reaction of fans (both United and away) to Mason playing agin for United
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Even if you were to argue it's a fair comparison, which it isn't of course, Beckham never had half the United fanbase against him either so it would be a whole lot worse for Greenwood.


Remember the geese said:
An angry mob is an angry mob.
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Such a simplistic viewpoint.
 
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