When you try to fix your car, you can leave the door hinges to the last. If the engine or transmission is bad that's the first thing to fix. I see ETH as the engine that needs an overhaul, not a replacement.
Sir Jim reportedly deems ETH's position not a priority unless results are particularly dire - missed opportunity or the right decision?
- Thread starter fastwalker
- Start date
You say this like the season isn't pissed away already. We're past the midpoint of the season. There is no point making decisions in the extremely unlikely hope that a single managerial appointment brings us title winning form from this point forward. It's not happening. We don't have the on field talent to make it happen.
I'm not sure how this outlook short changes the young players we have. If anything, removing any delusional short-term expectations gives them a free space to display their talent and we can know which ones to incorporate next season.
absolutely right call to make. we need to make meaningful changes, not knee jerks again. There are players here that failed previous managers too that need to improve or leave: Rashford, AWB, Dalot, Lindelof, MCT, Sancho
Players that ETH signed that need to improve or leave: Onana, Antony
For all his faults, ETH had really bad luck, I have yet to see Mount integrated. Casemiro, Varane, Martinez, Malacia, AWB and Shaw all injured for long period of time. Then you have a new erratic goalkeeper to deal with.
For our forwards, we really have no one else. Martial's been injured, Hojlund injured for a period too, Sancho is sulking, Rashford is being Rashford. Bruno overplayed again. Garnacho is young. So what can you do?
There are certaintly managers out there that can do better but 1 there is no guarantee until we try it out, 2, they may not want to come over. ETH doesn't seem to have a plan B, he doesn't seemed to flexible with changes. But the thing is we never really gotten a chance to see his plan A which was what we got him in for.
I know it sucks when we lose to teams we think we should beat but it will continue to suck when we have this false picture that our players are top drawer that should beat anyone with a good manager at the helm. The other time when we played Aston Villa, I can't think of any of our players that can slot into their team, maybe Bruno at a stretch.
Players that ETH signed that need to improve or leave: Onana, Antony
For all his faults, ETH had really bad luck, I have yet to see Mount integrated. Casemiro, Varane, Martinez, Malacia, AWB and Shaw all injured for long period of time. Then you have a new erratic goalkeeper to deal with.
For our forwards, we really have no one else. Martial's been injured, Hojlund injured for a period too, Sancho is sulking, Rashford is being Rashford. Bruno overplayed again. Garnacho is young. So what can you do?
There are certaintly managers out there that can do better but 1 there is no guarantee until we try it out, 2, they may not want to come over. ETH doesn't seem to have a plan B, he doesn't seemed to flexible with changes. But the thing is we never really gotten a chance to see his plan A which was what we got him in for.
I know it sucks when we lose to teams we think we should beat but it will continue to suck when we have this false picture that our players are top drawer that should beat anyone with a good manager at the helm. The other time when we played Aston Villa, I can't think of any of our players that can slot into their team, maybe Bruno at a stretch.
Don't be daft, you know the media will NEVER mention 115
Not of a fan of this decision by the Local Lad and his team. Just giving up on the season mid-way through doesn't sound like a very good start. We don't have to get a permanent manager in the job right now but someone in the interim who can come in and try to get something out of the season. In the meantime, whatever root and branch they want to do can be conducted in the background. I am unable to grasp how sacking ETH and getting someone interim is going to stop them from doing that. Won't getting a top 4 spot more helpful in future planning of the club with more money coming in?
Sounds like the New Year resolutions one makes where they wait for the absolutely perfect conditions to start but then that never happens and the year goes by and you have not achieved anything you set out to do. Waiting for X,Y & Z to fall into place first before you do anything is such an asinine way to go about things. I know there is no guarantee that an interim is going to come in and do better than ETH, but at least we can try instead of sitting there with our fingers crossed and hoping for a miracle. Disappointing from the Local Lad and the team.
Anyway, hopefully at the very least we can start shaping the squad and getting rid of players that are unwanted. If we can get rid of Sancho, Martial, Pellestri. Mejbri and one or both of Casemiro and Varane for a decent sum, that would be a good start.
Sounds like the New Year resolutions one makes where they wait for the absolutely perfect conditions to start but then that never happens and the year goes by and you have not achieved anything you set out to do. Waiting for X,Y & Z to fall into place first before you do anything is such an asinine way to go about things. I know there is no guarantee that an interim is going to come in and do better than ETH, but at least we can try instead of sitting there with our fingers crossed and hoping for a miracle. Disappointing from the Local Lad and the team.
Anyway, hopefully at the very least we can start shaping the squad and getting rid of players that are unwanted. If we can get rid of Sancho, Martial, Pellestri. Mejbri and one or both of Casemiro and Varane for a decent sum, that would be a good start.
We are not going to sack ETH, till we sack ETH.
feck me this constant sniping about SJR, his roots and the extent of his fandom by those who were desperate to bend over to Qatar are gonna get boring very quickly.
I am not sure its giving up on the season. If he feels there are massive issues behind the scenes preventing the manager to properly do his job, then it makes sense to fix them first.
This was to be expected. Get the sporting structure in place, let them figure out who the most logical long term candidate is, and be ready to intervene if Ten Hag's position proves untenable. This is a sensible way of dealing with managerial appointments.
On the other hand, he can hardly say "No, he's shit and we're replacing him". Footballer managers have the owner's explicit trust right up until the point where they are fired.
On the other hand, he can hardly say "No, he's shit and we're replacing him". Footballer managers have the owner's explicit trust right up until the point where they are fired.
What do you suggest we do then? Sack ETH, hire someone else without planning and take it from there?
The season ends in 5 months, the squad needs rebuilding (again) and I'd rather see that happens with a manager that the new leadership appoints. If we already have a plan in place, then by all means Sack ETH and bring in whoever INEOS want to bring in, if not we stick with ETH until plans are in place.
I'm in no way defending ETH btw, the guy has lost his way this season and is talking a lot of nonsense. I do want to see a modern structure and if that means ETH stays for the rest of the season then so be it...
These "massive issues" behind the scenes, even if they are fixed by hiring proper people, will take years to actually have an effect. There is no way ETH survives that long so it's pointless anyway. In reality the entire article is BS, they are not going to say "we're sacking the manager now".
I don't buy this hiding behind the structure excuse. Is the structure preventing us from scoring goals? Is it preventing us from playing decent football and scoring goals? Or do you think the Glazers are picking the team and dictating tactics behind the scenes? What in this structure is responsible for us losing half the games this season?
Didn't we get third and win the mickey mouse cup under this same structure last season? You think we would have won the league with a proper structure?
If only the structure is responsible for our failures for the last XI years, then we did we fire any of our managers. Should we give everyone from Moyes to Ole another go around if and when this magical structure comes into place?
You are right that we should fix the issues soon. However, is there a timeline for them? Are we going to keep ETH in charge till every thing is sorted and in mint condition first? What if things are never perfect structurally? Can we only hire the next manager only when ETH is senile or dead or he leaves us?
Same structure hired this manager and gave him 400m to spend in 2 big transfer windows. He was allowed to bring in players he wanted on huge fees and extortionate wages. But 18 months down the line he can't get a tune out of those players or the ones who were present here before he came. We have been atrocious for more than a year. Our football has been dire, we have no style of play, we can't win against any decent team, we are easily cut through and out though by teams from the top to the bottom, we can't score goals, we finished dead last in an easy Champions league group, we lie 8th in the league and are already out the league cup. This "structure" has become the new red herring. It's the new "philosophy" or "process" that we have to bear through before we can expect anything.
I keep reading that this season is ruined anyway, so let him continue - but his tactics and stubbornness are a big reason as to why this season is ruined!
I accept that they may not have a replacement lined up already and want to make to right call, but I expect and hope ETH to be gone soon.
I accept that they may not have a replacement lined up already and want to make to right call, but I expect and hope ETH to be gone soon.
Zoom out a bit. Focus on not just this season, but the last 10 seasons post SAF.
See this lost decade?
Yeah, that's why a lot of us aren't getting hard to the idea of another sacking being the only thing between us and long term success.
Hire a director of football who will analyse the squad. Evaluate who they want to keep and who is disruptive or just plain isn’t good enough. Based on those players they want to keep; what’s the best formation or system to get the most out of them. With that formation in mind what positions need reinforcing and then finally is ETH the right manager to lead that team.
I have my doubts about ETH in the long term but delaying that decision until we know what our identity is going to be isn’t a bad decision per se.
I have my doubts about ETH in the long term but delaying that decision until we know what our identity is going to be isn’t a bad decision per se.
This is a sensible decision. Proven good coach, there 's no point sacking him.
Sort out the player recruitment and I honestly think ETH can make a title challenging squad.
Sort out the player recruitment and I honestly think ETH can make a title challenging squad.
But nobody thinks it is so it's not relevant. Nobody is suggesting to sack the manager and leave everything the same.
"Don't let him sign players that he wants and he will come good".
Absolutely the right decision. The football department clearly needs shaking up and rebuilding, and that needs to be in place before you embark on a new managerial regime. If EtH has found the way before then, so much the better.
If no one thinks that, why are some disappointed Jim's first act wasn't to just chuck EtH out? What's the point in spending more money on the payout and new manager acquisition, unless you do believe the interim manager will most likely have this group of players challenging for a domestic double?
If EtH continues to crap the bed the board will realize his incompetence relative to the shit condition the club is in, and sack him with more confidence in their decision. What's the downside of waiting?
The experience with interim managers doesn't exactly give grounds for optimism. Would be a very bad decision in my view. Realistically there is no such thing as a quick and temporary fix.
I think on the contrary that is exactly the right approach. This is simply the wrong time and the wrong point in the process to bring in a new permanent manager, and there is very little reason to expect an interim manager to improve the team in the short term. They very rarely do. Which means the point you get rid of EtH is either once the football dept is up and running and there's a clearer sense of where we're heading and what we want, or when the results become so bad there's no other option.
Because believe it or not, there is more to football than just winning trophies. I want a reason to feel excited to watch my team every week. I don't want to despair and except to get thrashed everytime we face anyone decent. I want to feel excited and hopeful about seeing a win or a performance everytime I go to old Trafford this season.
There's only a handful of trophies up for grab every season, that doesn't mean that every club that doesn't win one is wasting away in their existence.
Some of you treat this sport like playing football manager in sim-through mode. You're better off just checking in at the end of every season for the year end review, because game to game obviously does nothing for you.
Very valid reason! One an interim manager could provide. And yes I've enjoyed the relative peaks we've seen under Ole, LVG, Mourinho and EtH even.
I'm just tired of chasing short term highs. If they feel that a "wait and see" will do us good in the long run (and no, long run doesn't mean finding a SAF v2), where we can achieve a base level of competence, I'm willing to hold my nose through the next 3 months.
But yeah your stance is valid. And no complaints from me if EtH was sacked today. I just don't care as much
Agree with what you say.
I just want to look forward to us playing every week, safe in the knowledge we'll be entertaining and giving 100%. If trophies follow that, fantastic.
Most of the last decade has been relentlessly grim with a few bright spots. Hopefully Sir Jim can make it more fun and more good than bad again.
But do you trust whoever has been overseeing the last decade to make a decision on who to bring in next when we fire ten Hag?
He's right imo.... It's not the most pressing issue
Clearly there's a lot of work behind the scenes to do in terms of the footballing structure.
I personally think that barring a miraculous turnaround, they'll already be looking for his replacement to appoint in the summer, but there's not much point sacking him now to appoint a short term solution; likely someone currently out of a job. They'll need to decide who they want to fit into the new structure and that'll obviously take time.
I personally think that barring a miraculous turnaround, they'll already be looking for his replacement to appoint in the summer, but there's not much point sacking him now to appoint a short term solution; likely someone currently out of a job. They'll need to decide who they want to fit into the new structure and that'll obviously take time.
Right call. So much is wrong with this club that I don’t see any manager succeeding until the infrastructure and culture is completely different.
As things stand this job will chew up and spit out anyone.
As things stand this job will chew up and spit out anyone.
Perhaps they want to salvage something out of this season? Or just to watch us play something that at least resembles cohesive football. I don't know, I'm not the one saying he should be sacked immediately but it doesn't mean anyone believes we need to change just the manager. People are probably also worried this might mean the new people in charge will keep making the same mistake that we've been making all these years. Instead of being ruthless we tend to wait until things get really bad before reacting. We don't sack a manager until it's a complete disaster. We don't move players on until it's been proven again and again they will never be good enough. And then we wonder why there's no resale value on anybody we want to sell.
I think it's the right call and I'm someone who currently has not faith in ETH. Right now, I see him as a placeholder and he has bit of time to prove he is the man for the job. We should have most of our squad fit soon and I don't think ETH will cause any further damage if he's in charge for the rest of the season. I think his saving grace is the injury crisis the and the nearing return of the first team players. He basically get some time to sort his shit out before the structure has been established. There's no fixture congestion excuses and soon there will be no excuse about injuries. No significant improvement and he should be the first one on the firing line once we have the key people in place.
Agree with most of this. The footballing side of the club is shambolic, but it doesn't give the manager a free pass.
Baffled that some seem to think that by appointing a DoF and letting them buy all the players, Ten Hag will suddenly turn into a top class coach. Zero evidence of that over the last 6 months.
The last 6 months is some of the worst football I've endured as a United fan. Clearly this is not all down to the manager and he's had bad luck but he just looks out of his depth.
Its the right call - most important to get a full revamp of the recruitment and footballing directors
Gives ETH until the end of the season to prove he's worth backing in the summer
Gives ETH until the end of the season to prove he's worth backing in the summer
Most people just don't think there's any point in deciding on the next manager before a DoF or whoever we need is actually in place to make the decision.
Structure first makes sense if that gives the better chance of finding the righ manager WHEN he's sacked
No, not even a peak Sir Alex could push this team to the title from our current position. But a positive bounce could mean playing better than we are currently, scoring more goals then we currently are doing. It could push us to another top 4 finish, getting CL football once again. It is not yet out of reach. It could create a positive vibe for the summer, easier to keep our best and most promising young players interested. Easier to attract more young and ambitious players in the summer as well. With new bosses in place, there is actually a chance we could do smart business and carry the positive momentum going forward into the next season.
Any positive bounce should be enough imo.
We've not seen a 'credible source' claim the Potter link is pure hokum, either, have we? Nor can you offer one up.
The links work under probability. Given Ratcliffe's
political and ideological advocations, hiring 'British' is a favourable narrative. Put 'Manchester' back into United, or somesuch. It is all quite possible. Hence publication.
It's how these things work.
Anyway, the discussion about EtH's obviation has to include who it is will be his replacement. We don't decide, rather Ineos will.
Yeah, I'm sort of here.
Rangnick really saved our season didn't he, the thing about interim managers is you can't find coaches as Rangnick found out be that brexit or 1st rate coaches not wanting to leave a good job for a 6 month job, we lucked out with Ole that one time and even by the end of the season we'd burned all that new manager bounce and results folded.
Also the little digs at Jim Ratcliffe being a Manchester boy come across as very immature.
Get the PL to approve
Get Murtough out
Get a SP in
Get a DOF in
Finish the season
Sack Ten Hag provided its still the same crap from now until season end .
Get Murtough out
Get a SP in
Get a DOF in
Finish the season
Sack Ten Hag provided its still the same crap from now until season end .
That's as good a defintion of short-termism as I've ever seen. You want excitement, and you want it now, so bring on an interim. Well, with fans like this we deserve all the shit we're in.