Sir Jim reportedly deems ETH's position not a priority unless results are particularly dire - missed opportunity or the right decision?

[ROFLUTION]

Of course it's the right decision. We need patience and knowledge, not quick fixes. A quickfix manager (which good alternatives are there really?) wouldn't do much better than EtH imo.

It'd also be wrong to sack EtH without having around 90% of his full squad available for at least some months to see if results would have been vastly different.

People keep moaning about injuries being an excuse, but it is an excuse/valid reason for not performing to your fullest. The squad EtH has had available just isn't that good and a lot of the players we try to rely on are still very young too. I'm not sure Ancelotti or whoever would have performed better with such an amputated squad.

 

[Telsim]

Disappointing to hear. Within shouting distance of being the worst manager of the past decade, if not already there. Failure and mediocrity tolerated once again. I sincerely hope it is out of necessity. Perhaps just temporary, until summer when a new DoF will be in place, or maybe waiting to miss out on the Champions League, so his severance pay has less of an impact on FFP.

One thing is certain - he has to go. Nowhere near good enough.

 

[Balljy]

Perhaps they want to salvage something out of this season? Or just to watch us play something that at least resembles cohesive football. I don't know, I'm not the one saying he should be sacked immediately but it doesn't mean anyone believes we need to change just the manager. People are probably also worried this might mean the new people in charge will keep making the same mistake that we've been making all these years. Instead of being ruthless we tend to wait until things get really bad before reacting. We don't sack a manager until it's a complete disaster. We don't move players on until it's been proven again and again they will never be good enough. And then we wonder why there's no resale value on anybody we want to sell.

The way I see it, it's the opposite of the previous mistakes. If they choose a manager now they'd be brought in without the consent of a new DoF and all of the other staff that gets brought in over the next few months. If the DoF didn't agree with the managers style we'd have 2 years of treading water yet again.

We could potentially get an interim manager, but then they lose ETH when they might think he's worth keeping with for a year or two after reviewing. I agree that means we write off this season. but we have to become a club that makes reasoned and correct decisions not sudden ones with no planning (even if they are delayed)

 

[Captmfla]

It's true that many players should be shown the door before the manager. I mean certain players like Maguire or Martial should be asked to go and will cut down the expenses before ETH. Maybe the manager can still conjure up something with other players.

 

[RedinIndia]

Ten Hag isn't the right person for the job but the decision whether to fire him has to be taken by a DOF.

Keep the background structure in place and then change the manager if required. That's what Newcastle are doing.

 

[Red00012]

| Sources say Brailsford’s idea is that a club should know its identity and then hire a sporting director and manager who can work in total unison. [TheAthleticFC]
This sounds like a plan , much better than the some of the caf that say let’s sack Ten Hag and see who’s available in the morning

 

[Infra-red]

Disappointing to hear. Within shouting distance of being the worst manager of the past decade, if not already there. Failure and mediocrity tolerated once again. I sincerely hope it is out of necessity. Perhaps just temporary, until summer when a new DoF will be in place, or maybe waiting to miss out on the Champions League, so his severance pay has less of an impact on FFP.

One thing is certain - he has to go. Nowhere near good enough.

Very little upside to sacking him midseason, though. There's nobody to replace him that could significantly impact the club's fortunes in the next four months - we're not winning anything and we're not finishing in the top 4. When United inevitably finish outside the CL places, Ten Hag will be sacked. In the interim, Ineos have a chance to review the current setup, make key appointments on the sporting side and get the best possible Ten Hag replacement lined up. The new manager should then arrive and find a much improved structure - a proper platform for success (assuming the club can also rectify the dire financial situation it finds itself in).

 

[Juicy Juiced]

Standards in the mud. Players will go in auto mode for the next six months.
Is there better club for player and managers than Manchester United? No ambition at all.

 

[Infra-red]

Standards in the mud. Players will go in auto mode for the next six months.
Is there better club for player and managers than Manchester United? No ambition at all.

What do you think United's realistic ambitions for the remainder of the season would be if they replaced Ten Hag with an interim, midseason?

The season is a write-off - better to spend the remaining time getting the next appointment right and sorting out the structure on the sporting side, so the new guy has a chance of success in the coming years.

 

[Juicy Juiced]

What do you think United's realistic ambitions for the remainder of the season would be if they replaced Ten Hag with an interim, midseason?

The season is a write-off - better to spend the remaining time getting the next appointment right and sorting out the structure on the sporting side, so the new guy has a chance of success in the coming years.

Hire better coach, maybe we can grab FA cup. Beat Tottenham and we are 5 pts behind the them. Arsenal is in bad form, biggest thing had happened. Don't understand this defeatist attitude.

Season is write off? Ok. Then return money who ever bought season ticket. Do they need to watch this season because is write off. What happened with standards?

 

[RedRover]

Most people just don't think there's any point in deciding on the next manager before a DoF or whoever we need is actually in place to make the decision.

That's a different issue though isn't it.

I don't think Ten Hag will be gone before the end of the season. It's pointless to sack him now before they get the other essential parts of a proper footballing structure in place. I do however think that as part of that they'll be looking to replace him. And you don't get preferred managers at this stage, because very few will want to walk out of their current club mid-season. No point sacking him and putting a stop gap in. The season's already a disaster.

Doesn't mean I think he should be here next season or ultimately save his job, or that he's ever going to be good enough.

 

[Regulus Arcturus Black]

We've not seen a 'credible source' claim the Potter link is pure hokum, either, have we? Nor can you offer one up..

Not have we seen a credible source claim a link to Guardiola or Fergie returning to manage is pure hokum, nor can you offer one.

That’s not how it works man. The Daily Star can report today that SJR wants Potter, Mbappe, Messi to return to Europe and Bellingham…. But we don’t need a credible source to deny it in order to not believe it.

 

[Rista]

The way I see it, it's the opposite of the previous mistakes. If they choose a manager now they'd be brought in without the consent of a new DoF and all of the other staff that gets brought in over the next few months. If the DoF didn't agree with the managers style we'd have 2 years of treading water yet again.

We could potentially get an interim manager, but then they lose ETH when they might think he's worth keeping with for a year or two after reviewing. I agree that means we write off this season. but we have to become a club that makes reasoned and correct decisions not sudden ones with no planning (even if they are delayed)

Even this hypothetical scenario would not be a problem if we were ruthless as we should be. If the manager is clearly not the right fit, sack him. We shouldn't be so scared of sacking the manager. This new structure will enable us to do that easier. it's probably going to take time to find the right man and that's okay.

"But then we lose ETH" should not be a factor at all as chances of him turning this around are extremely slim. We're literally counting on his ability to pick transfers being taken away will somehow make him a better coach when he can't even coach his own signings, let alone the players that he has on his disposal.

 

[IRONTUSK]

Because we all know that the issues run deeper than the manager. We have already tried chopping changing manager and it hasn`t worked.
It makes total sense to delve into wider issues first and fix those. (Mainly positions above the manager)
It`s going to take time.
Once they have a clearer picture of how that is going to pan out and they have people in those positions to move the club forward they should then asses the manager and see how he has done it that time.

If they just sack Ten Hag now it means everything will take longer.

I think barring a complete disaster - and a continue into the second half of the season continuing our current form, then at the end of the season they may let him go if they don`t think he is going to improve or fit in with their plans

 

[Gordon Godot]

Even this hypothetical scenario would not be a problem if we were ruthless as we should be. If the manager is clearly not the right fit, sack him. We shouldn't be so scared of sacking the manager. This new structure will enable us to do that easier. it's probably going to take time to find the right man and that's okay.

"But then we lose ETH" should not be a factor at all as chances of him turning this around are extremely slim. We're literally counting on his ability to pick transfers being taken away will somehow make him a better coach when he can't even coach his own signings, let alone the players that he has on his disposal.

This is the problem. He should never have been given control of transfers, but its what happens on the pitch that condemns him. I watched most of Arsenal and Liverpool and three things stood out. Above being well coached, they can play out comfortably from the back and defenders take risks, they have midfielders who are press resistant but also can beat a player and have some speed so they can carry the ball forward, and they are able to retain and work the ball around the opposition box. We cant do any of these things and show no sign of it. Its a mystery what happens in training

He also flip flops, Maguire went from 5th choice and trying to sell to first choice CB. Same with MCT who scored a couple of goals and was then nailed on to start. He cant make up his mind and doesnt know what to do.

 

[Lyng]

I don't buy this hiding behind the structure excuse. Is the structure preventing us from scoring goals? Is it preventing us from playing decent football and scoring goals? Or do you think the Glazers are picking the team and dictating tactics behind the scenes? What in this structure is responsible for us losing half the games this season?

Didn't we get third and win the mickey mouse cup under this same structure last season? You think we would have won the league with a proper structure?

If only the structure is responsible for our failures for the last XI years, then we did we fire any of our managers. Should we give everyone from Moyes to Ole another go around if and when this magical structure comes into place?

You are right that we should fix the issues soon. However, is there a timeline for them? Are we going to keep ETH in charge till every thing is sorted and in mint condition first? What if things are never perfect structurally? Can we only hire the next manager only when ETH is senile or dead or he leaves us?

Same structure hired this manager and gave him 400m to spend in 2 big transfer windows. He was allowed to bring in players he wanted on huge fees and extortionate wages. But 18 months down the line he can't get a tune out of those players or the ones who were present here before he came. We have been atrocious for more than a year. Our football has been dire, we have no style of play, we can't win against any decent team, we are easily cut through and out though by teams from the top to the bottom, we can't score goals, we finished dead last in an easy Champions league group, we lie 8th in the league and are already out the league cup. This "structure" has become the new red herring. It's the new "philosophy" or "process" that we have to bear through before we can expect anything.

Its not an excuse. I am not trying to evaluate on Ten Hag.
What I am stating is that Ineos have just come in and sacking the manager right from the get go would actually make me much more worried.
That would mean they would react based on a notion of how things should be, what our results should be like at this time, without first properly investigating how the club is run on a day to day basis, what happens on the training field, what are the player routines, how are the facilities etc.

This combined with the disastreous result of our latest interim manager, I can certainly see why the idea of simply removing the manager and getting an interim might not be the best way to "save" the season.
Especially since the idea of getting a new manager without the proper structure in place actually makes the job twice as hard for the new manager.

I have my doubts about Ten Hag, but sacking him mid season in the middle of a complete shift in football operations would seem rather rash to me.
Unless of course we had someone like Ancelotti available who the players would have a massive respect for right away and who has proved he can work under various different situations. I dont believe anyone of that ilk is available right now though.

 

[matt10000]

We've got to a point where losing 50 % of the games and having more or less nothing to play for by January is not 'dire'. Congrats to everyone who wanted this joker to buy the club.

I can see that your new year’s resolution includes being patient and not making rash opinions about people before they have been in a role for a minute

 

[matt10000]

Disappointing to hear. Within shouting distance of being the worst manager of the past decade, if not already there. Failure and mediocrity tolerated once again. I sincerely hope it is out of necessity. Perhaps just temporary, until summer when a new DoF will be in place, or maybe waiting to miss out on the Champions League, so his severance pay has less of an impact on FFP.

One thing is certain - he has to go. Nowhere near good enough.

It isn’t certain.

 

[Chumpsbechumps]

I can see that your new year’s resolution includes being patient and not making rash opinions about people before they have been in a role for a minute

It’s rare to see rash opinions in the Caf

 

[TheRedDevil'sAdvocate]

The Guardian's report basically agrees with what Mitten wrote a few days earlier on The Athletic. People will discuss the impact of the injury crisis on our season, and they will also debate whether a hasty decision now will benefit the team or not all they like. The main reason, though, ETH's position is safe for now, is because there's no one that can sack him. The previous administration would never make the call amidst an impending 1.6 billion investment, as it would be a clear admission of failure on their part. And they all want to have "worked at Manchester United" in their CVs. The new administration would prefer to avoid any early decisions that may look aggressive toward the way the Glazers used to run things in the context of a relationship that, until further notice, has to be symbiotic. I would add that time is on their side: Should ETH turn things around, they'll be the patient and thorough people who give everyone a chance to prove themselves. If that's not the case and United end their season in the gutter, it will be much easier to shove the likes of Potter and Olise down the throats of a disheartened and angry fanbase.

 

[Balljy]

Even this hypothetical scenario would not be a problem if we were ruthless as we should be. If the manager is clearly not the right fit, sack him. We shouldn't be so scared of sacking the manager. This new structure will enable us to do that easier. it's probably going to take time to find the right man and that's okay.

"But then we lose ETH" should not be a factor at all as chances of him turning this around are extremely slim. We're literally counting on his ability to pick transfers being taken away will somehow make him a better coach when he can't even coach his own signings, let alone the players that he has on his disposal.

It's not really that hypothetical when a DOF is there for these decisions. We're probably the best in the world at making quick decisions that don't move us forward and are done without planning and you want the first Ineos decision to repeat that process? The new manager would probably expect signings, who again wouldn't be ones the DOF would necessarily choose.

We've had a decade of being run awfully, and if we are finally going to sort out the structure, I'd much rather wait 6 months and do things properly for the first time in years and hopefully start building to something good on the pitch in the next 2 or 3 years.

 

[parmenio]

Why wait 6 months ? He’s not up to the job simple as that.
Surely since being involved in the take over and then winning work has been going on to formulate a plan to improve this set up. Ineos didnt just buy United and then right we got them what we do now?

 

[Telsim]

Very little upside to sacking him midseason, though. There's nobody to replace him that could significantly impact the club's fortunes in the next four months - we're not winning anything and we're not finishing in the top 4. When United inevitably finish outside the CL places, Ten Hag will be sacked. In the interim, Ineos have a chance to review the current setup, make key appointments on the sporting side and get the best possible Ten Hag replacement lined up. The new manager should then arrive and find a much improved structure - a proper platform for success (assuming the club can also rectify the dire financial situation it finds itself in).

I get we are out of contention for everything, but the football itself is just so, so bad. The worst I have seen. And I have grown so tired of writing off seasons, even though I know this one is over at this point anyway. Also, it could be useful for the next manager to start working as soon as possible, provided INEOS have someone in mind and he is available. Although if it's Potter... ughh. And then he will be working under the current setup for months. sigh I suppose the suggested course of action is the logical one, but it's just such a bleak situation once again.

Whatever the case, I really hope Ten Hag isn't manager next season.

 

[The Mitcher]

The Guardian's report basically agrees with what Mitten wrote a few days earlier on The Athletic. People will discuss the impact of the injury crisis on our season, and they will also debate whether a hasty decision now will benefit the team or not all they like. The main reason, though, ETH's position is safe for now, is because there's no one that can sack him. The previous administration would never make the call amidst an impending 1.6 billion investment, as it would be a clear admission of failure on their part. And they all want to have "worked at Manchester United" in their CVs. The new administration would prefer to avoid any early decisions that may look aggressive toward the way the Glazers used to run things in the context of a relationship that, until further notice, has to be symbiotic. I would add that time is on their side: Should ETH turn things around, they'll be the patient and thorough people who give everyone a chance to prove themselves. If that's not the case and United end their season in the gutter, it will be much easier to shove the likes of Potter and Olise down the throats of a disheartened and angry fanbase.

We still have Richard Arnold, he may have handed in his notice but he's still actually in the job. I think the takeover has been an opportunity for some at the top to do nothing and absolve themselves of responsibility.

 

[Revan]

We still have Richard Arnold, he may have handed in his notice but he's still actually in the job. I think the takeover has been an opportunity for some at the top to do nothing and absolve themselves of responsibility.

He is in gardening leave, we have some interim acting CEO (from the Glazers regime) in meanwhile.

 

[Balljy]

Why wait 6 months ? He’s not up to the job simple as that.
Surely since being involved in the take over and then winning work has been going on to formulate a plan to improve this set up. Ineos didnt just buy United and then right we got them what we do now?

The takeover hasn't been ratified yet, and Ineos can't officially hire anyone / take decisions until it has been.

 

[The Mitcher]

The takeover hasn't been ratified yet, and Ineos can't officially hire anyone / take decisions until it has been.

So what's Arnold doing as he works his notice period?

 

[DJ_21]

Right decision by a mile. We’ve not yet had a manger under a new structure so it’s worth being patient with ETH to see if anything changes. He may start thriving, this summer should he crucial. Next season is a must improvement and clear style of play.

 

[Lentwood]

It's not a priority.

Personally I have been on record as saying I am EtH out, but we achieve nothing by sacking him mid-season, especially with the takeover.

The priorities have to be getting a new Director of Football in-place and a new Head of Recruitment. We can't fix this club until that's done.

Also the person who makes the decision about EtHs future and/or the next manager should really be the new DoF.

 

[parmenio]

Right decision by a mile. We’ve not yet had a manger under a new structure so it’s worth being patient with ETH to see if anything changes. He may start thriving, this summer should he crucial. Next season is a must improvement and clear style of play.

Yeah and maybe Martial will start trying in games too. Rashford as well. Miracles do happen that what I tell myself when I buy my lottery tickets.
surely we have the new structure in place it’s just timing re takeover etc.

 

[Gordon Godot]

Yeah and maybe Martial will start trying in games too. Rashford as well. Miracles do happen that what I tell myself when I buy my lottery tickets

'Thriving'. OMG, are you serious? Is he reading up on football tactics?

 

[Gordon Godot]

It's not a priority.

Personally I have been on record as saying I am EtH out, but we achieve nothing by sacking him mid-season, especially with the takeover.

The priorities have to be getting a new Director of Football in-place and a new Head of Recruitment. We can't fix this club until that's done.

Also the person who makes the decision about EtHs future and/or the next manager should really be the new DoF.

I disagree. We are going backwards with ETH, his squad is the worst since Fergie retired. No progress on the pitch. We should find a temporary solution while structure is put in place, someone who might blend youth.

 

[Giggsy13]

Sir Jim and his team are probably smart enough to realize that ten Hag has dealt with significant off the field distractions caused mainly by weak leadership (Greenwood and Sancho fiascos) and an almost unprecedented injury crisis that it’s not all completely on the manager. The second half of the season will be the barometer to test ten Hag when key players return from injury. Thankfully there will no knee jerk reactions from
INEOS.

 

[Lentwood]

I disagree. We are going backwards with ETH, his squad is the worst since Fergie retired. No progress on the pitch. We should find a temporary solution while structure is put in place, someone who might blend youth.

EtH has used tonnes of young players so I don't really understand that criticism personally.

Also see no point choosing a manager now who won't be the choice of the new DoF. Imagine we appoint Dan Ashworth, for example. We don't want him to inherit a manager, surely we want him to go and pick the one he feels is best and for him to feel its 'his man'.

 

[Balljy]

So what's Arnold doing as he works his notice period?

I imagine wating to hear what the new structure will be and doing the day job.

 

[NLunited]

Not sure if this is the right thread, but one of the arguments against replacing him is "we've tried replacing managers before, it hasn't worked". but if you extend that outward, it quickly becomes ridiculous.
"We've tried buying players before, it doesn't work." In fact, just as the managers can get more specific (we've tried many different types of managers), this one can too:

"We've tried buying big name prime age talents for big money and it's been mixed" - Pogba, Sancho, AdM, Bruno, Onana, Shaw, Mata
"We've tried buying big name players for their last few years with mostly bad results" - Ronaldo, Cavani, Casemiro, Varane, Sanchez, Schweinsteiger, Zlatan, Falcao.
"We've tired buying solid sensible PL players with bad results" - Schneiderlin, Fellaini, Maguire
"We've tired buying decent-level foreign talent with mixed or bad results" - Blind, Herrera, Fred, Lindelof, Bailly, Martial, DVB, Antony, Telles, Malacia
"We've tried buying young talent with mixed or bad results" - Dan James, Pellistri, Amad
"We've tried promoting youth with mixed or bad results" - Rashford, McTominay, Mainoo, Lingard, Pereira, Henderson, Blackett, McNair, Cameron Borthwick-Jackson, James Wilson
We've tried clever cheap loans with mostly bad results" - Amrabat, Weghorst, Sabitzer, Reguilon

So, if we can't replace a manager because it's been done before, can we buy any player of any type at all?

You just made an argument for keeping the manager. We have tried everything else except that.

INEOS restructuring is the next thing we try, if that fails

 

[Lexicon Red Devil]

We gain nothing by sacking him now. He only has another 18 months left on his contract and that time should be spent getting a new structure in place and trimming the fat from the squad. If next season he is able to work successfully with the squad that the new sporting director has started to assemble, it may be worth extending his contract. I find that pretty doubtful though.

Let him run down his contract and save the money we'd use to pay him off to invest in the future of the club. We really need to start thinking long-term and no more Varane and Casemiro type signings and obviously Ten Hag's say in transfers should be minimal.

 

[Mingus]

One thing that we did learn from the Rangnick interim appointment is that that, unless you keep the coaching staff (not likely in this case), no-one will be keen to take up that position for a few months.

The United players were scathing about the quality of the coaching under Rangnick but they were the best available for a temporary position.

 

[eire-red]

I think it's probably the right decision on balance.

EtH has had a lot to deal with this season, from injuries to key players, a loss of form of the star player, off field distractions like Sancho and Greenwood in pre-season, and the ownership saga.

Second half of the season story should be Ineos and Co fixing the structure above EtH, with EtH proving he's the man to fix our problems on the pitch with some key players returning from injury.

United's first half of the season kind of reminds me of Liverpool last season. Klopp had a much greater body of work and a lot more credit in the bank than EtH, but even Klopp couldn't deal with fixtures congestion, injuries, poor form from Salah etc, and many were questioning if he was the right man for a rebuild of the team with an ageing midfield and only Salah left of that front 3.

I wouldn't exactly lament the sacking of EtH, but we don't know the extent of the problems with the footballing structure in United. If the next manager coming in is going to be doing the job blindfolded with one hand tied behind their back, then what's the point in that?

 

[Shark]

We gain nothing by sacking him now. He only has another 18 months left on his contract and that time should be spent getting a new structure in place and trimming the fat from the squad. If next season he is able to work successfully with the squad that the new sporting director has started to assemble, it may be worth extending his contract. I find that pretty doubtful though.

Let him run down his contract and save the money we'd use to pay him off to invest in the future of the club. We really need to start thinking long-term and no more Varane and Casemiro type signings and obviously Ten Hag's say in transfers should be minimal.

What if the current string of results continue whilst this new structure is being built, along with another few thrashings to rival opposition? that's where this idea kind of falls apart. No club on this planet, let alone a multi billion dollar club will entertain that, new structure being built or not. Are you suggesting that we just plod along regardless of falling further and further down the table?