Sorry I said that for the benefit of people who watched the first half and saw how insipid and disinterested they were.
Erik ten Hag - Manchester United manager
- Thread starter sewey89
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Are you serious?
If he calls in sick for training, will he get fined?Spurs dominated Brentford. I know you despise Ange with all your heart but if you are going to pick any game to hammer him with then City loss a few days before (in the cup) is a much better one.
Yeah I don’t really agree with this. They pressed high and created danger in the first half just fecked the final passes up and we throttled them in transition.
Side note: I don’t think anyone has ever said a team that’s getting dominated was “playing well” or looked up for it.
I despise Ange with all my heart? That's a new one. Do you have any more things to make up? We were outplaying wolves for 70 mins away from home and has no problem carving them open more times than what Spurs managed. Point is both teams eventually had a well deserved albeit slender lead. There's no need to slate ten hag for that.
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I think it's pretty obvious what he wants from this team and he's said it many times; it's a transition team, that counters very quickly, presses high and you saw against Wolves several times in the first half that players love to break quickly and exploit spaces.
The problem i've had, and this is just a personal thing, is that I often don't like this kind of football, especially when the midfield has so little control of games. But to say EtH doesn't have a plan is wrong. You can say it's a crap plan and that's fine but it's not clueless or directionless at all.
Also, i can't and won't defend his stats this season and he could, like Ole before him in his two and a half years, have been justifiably sacked quite a few times already, but the guy has had some serious issues with the squad. Rashford, Sancho, Ronaldo, Antony, Greenwood, the fact that the club wanted to offload Maguire and McTominay and they're still here, the sad reality that Martial is STILL our back up striker after so many years, you can't tell me he hasn't inherited some god awful problems, regardless of how bad you think he is as a manager. It doesn't excuse the bad football but it's not a good environment or club structure at all.
What does this even mean? Are you suggesting fans who don't rate him are going to be upset because it's his birthday?
It's the worst day of my life.
Of course, I did. And Im referring to the poster who slated ten hag (which was where my ange and de Zerbi point stemmed from).
Now, where did I say I despise Ange with all my heart?
And your conclusion from watching that game is that they struggled to a win?
You pretty clearly dislike him (as evidenced by having a dig about his failures at many opportunities, like here), though perhaps you just dislike any manager that have ever been compared favorably to ten Hag on here.
Did you catch the last 10 mins?
Given how many young players he's bedding in and developing, I'd almost be tempted to give him one more year, almost, his tactics are just so bad that I think it's really beyond justification to keep him beyond the end of the season.
The starting 11 against Wolves can beat anyone.
"Can" doesn't mean much. Any PL team "can" beat any other PL team on any given day.
Wait, you are having a go at anyone suggesting we struggled or people saying Mainoo bailed us out with late winner because we had many chances in the first 60 minutes (and you are actually right here, we were good and deserved the win), yet having a go at Spurs for having to defend their lead in the last 10 minutes - despite them not actually conceding. Am I getting it right?
The starting 11 against Wolves CAN beat anyone. We tore Wolves a new one in attack with Bruno and Garnacho having awful game. Imagine if they played well.
You people are reading too much into this Wolves comeback. They got a scandalous penalty, they are in form and dangerous team. You can't predict that Antony will be THAT shit, he scored and assisted in the last game. It was justified to give him a go, and he screwed up massively. On paper, he should be able to hold the ball well.
You can't blame the manager for every individual player mistake. I just imagine the comments on here if he hadn't subbed Casmiro off for McTominay and Casemiro got a red card - "clueless manager", "fraud", "it was clear as day that Casemiro had to be subbed off" etc.
For God almighty's sake, can the majority of people be objective just for once? Why do you always see what you want to see to support your opinion?
You people are reading too much into this Wolves comeback. They got a scandalous penalty, they are in form and dangerous team. You can't predict that Antony will be THAT shit, he scored and assisted in the last game. It was justified to give him a go, and he screwed up massively. On paper, he should be able to hold the ball well.
You can't blame the manager for every individual player mistake. I just imagine the comments on here if he hadn't subbed Casmiro off for McTominay and Casemiro got a red card - "clueless manager", "fraud", "it was clear as day that Casemiro had to be subbed off" etc.
For God almighty's sake, can the majority of people be objective just for once? Why do you always see what you want to see to support your opinion?
I think he needs to pull out a second half to the season like Liverpool have in recent seasons to rescue top four to save himself honestly.
McTominay sub was fine, Casemiro is a ticking bomb when he’s on a yellow and besides he needed rest. It’s the other subs and game management that we struggled with. Conceding a counter attack goal in stoppage time when leading should never happen.
No, follow my posts. I'm not having a go at anyone. I'm wondering why people ran out here to moan against the manager when we broadly played very well, just like Spurs did and had to take a slender lead with a late struggle, just like Spurs did.
If we have the same starting 11 expect us to win every game.
Of course this is not possible. Injuries/suspensions.
I expect SJR to extend Erik's contract in the summer.
He will get the help he needs with the squad.
They struggled as much as we did.
What the feck are you on about? If I dislike a manager (and there are a few), I'd openly say it. I've got nothing against Ange. I think there's an early bandwagon on him and am cautious about that, but that doesn't mean I don't like him. fecking hell
I understood the argument that we struggled to adjust to lots of injuries and out of form attackers. We needed to commit an extra player in the press to try and win the ball high up as we struggled with breaking lines from deep. We had to overcommit in attack, as we needed 3x the number of shots to score. We get frustrated, lost confidence and added pressure which bled into the whole team. Fine.
Last night however we were leading with minutes to go, and we overcommitted at an attacking corner. That's just dreadful preparation and set up. There's no excuse whatsoever.
Yes it's true that if we finish off great opportunities, we'll ease a lot of pressure on ourselves. But there is no excuse for some of the worst defensive decision making I've seen at this level.
I'm also annoyed ETH is not fighting more to control the media narrative. He's being dominated in that regard by all other rival managers. We're getting absolutely f all because of a combination of the public thinking Man Utd get all the decisions and referees not feeling any pressure to give things United's way. We need to really clearly articulate that despite the Wolves potential penalty (although I've seen numerous keepers bump attackers at corners without winning the ball), we've been punished by refs at almost every opportunity this season.
Last night however we were leading with minutes to go, and we overcommitted at an attacking corner. That's just dreadful preparation and set up. There's no excuse whatsoever.
Yes it's true that if we finish off great opportunities, we'll ease a lot of pressure on ourselves. But there is no excuse for some of the worst defensive decision making I've seen at this level.
I'm also annoyed ETH is not fighting more to control the media narrative. He's being dominated in that regard by all other rival managers. We're getting absolutely f all because of a combination of the public thinking Man Utd get all the decisions and referees not feeling any pressure to give things United's way. We need to really clearly articulate that despite the Wolves potential penalty (although I've seen numerous keepers bump attackers at corners without winning the ball), we've been punished by refs at almost every opportunity this season.
OK then.
They didn’t. We needed a 97th minute winner, they didn’t.They struggled as much as we did.
What the feck are you on about? If I dislike a manager (and there are a few), I'd openly say it. I've got nothing against Ange. I think there's an early bandwagon on him and am cautious about that, but that doesn't mean I don't like him. fecking hell
I mean can he win with people like you? United play well in the first half and it’s suddenly a dead rubber game because wolves weren’t interested.
The extra player committed wasn't because of the injuries or the form of attackers, that was the plan to have the 2 number 10s behind a front 3. We're now in a situation where Mason Mount, our main target from the summer, is basically going to be a back up to Bruno or one of the wide players if we are going to play with a more balanced midfield like we saw last night. The first half last night was the best we've looked maybe all season before we again lost control of things.
The media stuff I don't really care about, the guy is not charismatic and basically is a bit of a nerd. I don't think he could be who the likes of Ferguson and Klopp were/are with the media, he isn't that guy. The issue is that if you're going to be a nerd then you have to be really detailed in your work and the way we surrender control of games or goals like the 3rd last night are not the type of things that should so regularly happen to a details oriented team.
And we had a pen against us that was never a pen, and we didn't go down in the game. And we just like spurs in the last minute of added time were fighting a set piece or a cross into the mixer where literally anything could happen.
You're splitting hairs. I'm saying both sides played well. Both sides held on. Both sides had a scoreline which flattered the opposition. But ten hag is getting trashed on it whereas no one would do the same toward ange.
You are correct with all of this but are wasting your time in here.
You're right, we played well yesterday, no two ways about it.
It's not about being fun and engaging. In a game of fine margins, the inability to deliver a message through the press is devastating. You can't be a good manager and be a poor communicator in any role where you have media engagement and press conferences. Without a message that cuts through, most fans will think we've been lucky with ref decisions this year.
It could be worth up to 5 goals a season. Maybe 5-10 points. If as a top manager you're not using this lever to get ahead, then you're likely neglecting others.
I assumed we were trying for a single pivot and two 10s because we felt it was our best shot to score goals, and assumed we'd be a bit more conservative if we started scoring more. If not, it's a very risky call, given how vulnerable it makes us if you beat our first line of press.
We played very well yesterday and deserved the win.
It was very foolish to surrender the lead. We should have done better in the final 10 minutes and stoppage time to see out the game. I don’t see how someone would not be concerned with that just as I don’t see how someone would not be encouraged by what happened in the first 60 minutes. Spurs did a better job at seeing the game out btw.
It is like you need to be either super devoted and thrilled with EtH and never say a bad word (or else you are accused of cheering against the club
) or you need to be completely negative about everything.The first 70 mins were very encouraging, and no, it's not about ten hag devotion. The same whingers and moaners have come by to dick on him after two wins and a draw. Basically nothing he can do is correct. Even the bellends slating him for starting Rashford want to stand by their decision to mug the manager off knowing he had a good game. Go figure.We played very well yesterday and deserved the win.
It was very foolish to surrender the lead. We should have done better in the final 10 minutes and stoppage time to see out the game. I don’t see how someone would not be concerned with that just as I don’t see how someone would not be encouraged by what happened in the first 60 minutes. Spurs did a better job at seeing the game out btw.
It is like you need to be either super devoted and thrilled with EtH and never say a bad word (or else you are accused of cheering against the club
that seems like a double standard to me when previous managers (and no doubt future ones) were criticised for not trusting young players or being bad for their development. Onana is there because 27 isnt old for a keeper and because if ten hag is staying, Onana will be his goalkeeper. Im listing players who I believe would be part of his plans
to me its absolutely mad to credit the youth set up solely with how a young player transitions to the adult game. It makes no sense at all to me, otherwise every top youth player would make it. i would say dalot, wan bissaka, shaw in many ways, rashford obviously, and these young players have all improved or developed well under ten hag.
He could if he started putting a team together that could convincingly win a few football matches while not getting humiliated by rivals.
I'd say we've won maybe 3 matches convincingly this season. Wins with no glaring caveats.
In the league Chelsea win is the only truly comfortable one. Well Everton too since it was done early in the second half but we didn’t actually play well there and they were super wasteful.
Even when we play really well - eg yesterday, or Villa at home, we make it harder than it needs to be through the same errors (set pieces v Villa, game management v Wolves). It’s kind of silly.
The worst part of it for me is if you look what followed immediately after the three games where we played convincing football -
Beat Palace 3-0... lose 1-0 to Palace a few days later.
Beat Everton 3-0... Onana literally throws CL into the bin vs Galatasary, followed by yet another garbage performance and defeat against Newcastle
Beat Chelsea 2-1... followed by what was probably the most abject, horrible performance of the season in the 3-0 vs Bournemouth, and then defeat to Bayern.
Sure some standards need to be set. But there needs to be surety where. It’s the part of the club above the manager, in the boardroom making keys decisions.
And then let’s judge the one’s below. This is a sane course of action, just ripping everything apart and starting from scratch isn’t.
Anyways who would you think you’ll replace him with?
Good post. How this can be observed and how I personally observe it is that ETH wants those lines to be slightly distanced one from another as a part of his “best transition team in the league” plan.
That gap between the lines creates a lot of space as the opponent’s defence is tested not to go too high due to the pace of Rashford, Hojlund and Garnacho.
With numerous players in the squad who have ability to play that incisive progressive passess in the first phase like Martinez, Dalot, Mainoo and to some extent Casemiro, we can quickly transform from the build up phase to attacking the defensive zone of the opponent, as we saw numerous times against Wolves yesterday.
Especially when those passes are played into our focal point of attack, Hojlund, who we can often see dropping deep - the reason why I can understand that our club was recently linked with a move for players like Zirkzee and Ekitike, who both are very good at it.
This starting eleven is very well competent to play very good football and execute ETH's plans, but the drop in quality of football when one of them is missing is worrying.
For example, put McTominay instead of Mainoo and our midfield is wide open as he tends to be at the end of things due to his personality as a player, just like Bruno. I hope our new recruitment will be very well aware of those details.
What’s your thoughts ?