Well, Its just plain stupid leting him play three matches in a row in a one week after long injury. ETH is famous for being a coward for not rotationg the squad.
Playing Martinez after he sustained an injury..
- Thread starter Bastian
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So Ten Hag was supposed to know that his player who was out for a long time with a foot injury was going to have an opposition player fall on him and damage his knee?
It has nothing to do with rotation, it was purely bad luck.
You shouldn't need an MRI to have an idea how serious that could be, this isn't amateur hour.
I want you to read your post, and that someone else's post again, and think about whether it makes sense to put the decision entirely back onto the player himself.
No but maybe not let him start three games in a row after such a long injury. I mean SAF had to rotate Ferdinand a lot of times.
This would make sense if he aggrevated the same injury. But he didn't.
There's getting hurt and there's getting injured. Players that constantly get knocked and have low pain thresholds deserve some doubt in their longevity. A guy landing on your knee with all of their weight is not something that's preventable or a situation of a player having injury issues. Every human on the planet would have issues after that, and it would be hard in the moment...with so much adrenaline...to totally understand the gravity of it. I once skied the rest of the day on a torn MCL not realizing I tore it, but thinking I probably just knocked it. There's no blame to go around here...for the club or for Licha...it's just one of those instances of bad luck.
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Unless you're a medical professional specialising in sports, the bit in bold is incredibly ironic.
The decision isn't entirely on the player, but in this case what would you suggest? There was clearly no external sign of a problem, and the player felt they were fine. If you're suggesting that the medical team should have insisted he come off anyway in this situation, then logically we'd have to do that whenever any of our players take a knock, which would be mental.
Do you have quotes? It looked serious enough that Casemiro went over to have a long look at him.
Yes, im saying the medical team as well as the coaches who have instant replay on their ipads on the sidelines, should have insisted on taking him off given how potentially serious having someone land on your knee like that could've been. And he's just coming back from a long layoff.
When did you finish your medical degree?
This is best case scenario for me. I was worried his season and possibly his career was here was done.
Get in!
I'm not the one that allowed him to play on with ligament damage.
But you are the one who says they don’t need portable MRI’s to know the extent of the injury. Which makes me wonder why we even bother with MRI’s when we could just ask you what the problem is.
You don't need an MRI to decide whether or not to sub off a player.
No, but obviously the doctor did the checks they could and decided they could play on. You’ve had a medically trained person on this forum saying they couldn’t know but yet you do. It’s easier to accept you are wrong on this one.
I think you misread the post. I said you shouldn't need to run scans to know how serious it could be. The manager should not need to know the full extent of the injury, just that the possibility alone is enough to decide whether to risk it or not.
You are right. But he is no doctor. If doctor and player says he can play, why should manager say differently?
We have been over this with when Solskjaer was manager. Managers are no doctors. They pick teams. They pick tactics. They don't do doctors job.
You do though. Unless you use the logic that every time a player tweaks their knee joint it could be a ruptured ACL, so they should always be taken off. Which would be stupid.
There are non-imaging tests you can do (google “ACL drawer test”) but they’re notoriously inaccurate and a decision is usually made based upon whether or not the player can weight bear and their description of the injury (did you feel a pop? did your knee completely give way?) The guys who attended Martinez are experts at their jobs. Among the very best around. The idea that us armchair experts have a better idea of what the right thing to do at the time was is ridiculous. Classic example of being wise with hindsight.
Glad it's not the worst-case scenario, but I wouldn't count on 6-8 weeks.
If they're saying he'll be back some time in March, expect him in April, hopefully.
If they're saying he'll be back some time in March, expect him in April, hopefully.
Fair enough. I have no basis other than hindsight, but like I said on the first page, I was surprised ETH wasn't more cautious like he did with Mainoo earlier. Two defenders on the bench, game was won, just wrap him up in cotton this one time.
Casemiro the renowned medical professional? I thought you didn't want amateur hour?
The long layoff was due to his foot, not his knee, so it's irrelevant here.
But just to clarify, your expectation is that whenever one of our players is involved in a challenge that hurts them, they should be taken off, regardless of the player's own judgement as to whether they can play on, because it could potentially be more serious? If that's the case then at least your logic is consistent, but I'd suggest it isn't a very sustainable approach - we'll run out of subs quite quickly.
How do you know Martinez said he was ok, can you lip read?
And coming back from a long layoff is not irrelevant.
If we’d subbed him, West Ham had come back to draw (or win) and turned out Martinez was fine… guarantee posters would be blaming Ten Hag.
“Should have left him on. Ridiculous to sub him if he said he felt fine and medical team didn’t force it. #TenHagout !”
“Should have left him on. Ridiculous to sub him if he said he felt fine and medical team didn’t force it. #TenHagout !”
I tore my knee ligaments in football training years ago. Agonising. I had to have fluid drawn off my swollen knee for a fortnight. Martinez, it seems, felt okay initially to continue. I can only assume that it was his hopeful decision.
The club say he will be out until the end of March. Six weeks is about right - he'll be fine.
The club say he will be out until the end of March. Six weeks is about right - he'll be fine.
Unless its a head injury I wonder how much a medical team can do to force a player off. It's usually down to the player to suggest if he can carry on then the coach either agrees or doesn't.
I agree, thought it was really strange considering subbing him for Varane might have been a reasonable action anyways at that moment.
Completely agree. Whilst you can't err on the side of caution every time, this occasion was one.
He was subbed off not long after coming back on, and wasn't at the races. His game effectively ended when he was initially landed on.
He wasn't fine however and we won 3-0
A doctor checked my knee when I was 16 and said I could play on. I tried to turn 5 mins later and knee gave out. Turns out I had done my ACL.
Its not easy for a doctor to determine a ligament strain or ligament damage without a scan
And obviously the trained medical personnel didn’t think it was a necessity to be replaced.
Of course that's not the issue but seeing as he couldn't last long, it was pointless for him to keep "playing"
Tbh, I never accused ETH of anything. Licha should have simply said "I can't continue"
Why did the doctors say he was OK to continue when they should be aware that they couldn't tell if there was an injury in this circumstance.
I broke my leg playing football, knew I'd done it straight away. Went hospital and the doctor did the assessments and reckoned I didn't. I insisted I had broken it. Sent to x-ray and it was clearly broken. Sometimes people don't see the obvious.
Hope the news coming out is true, getting him back in a couple of months is uplifting having feared it was his ACL
Wouldn't be such a huge loss IF we had someone else capable of passing through the lines but unfortunately that's not the case
So you're arguing the minutia now, and dodging having to answer for the inconsistent logic in your suggestion. That's not terribly unexpected.
It's fairly obvious Licha was stating that he could continue, given the footage, not to mention the fact that he stayed on!
Coming back from an unrelated injury is irrelevant, unless again your logic is that he needs to come off after every challenge just in case.
Just as we was getting our season back on track.
Even whilst walking the touchline he gave someone on the pitch a look as if to say "It's not good". And then he stands on the side next to ten Hag still looking like he's not sure, and they chuck him back on
Even if the risk of him worsening the injury is small, why risk it? Bowen got through on goal shortly afterwards and he was in no position to help out there.
