Playing Martinez after he sustained an injury..

[Bastian]

I absolutely hated how reckless Ole was with the fitness of his players and I suppose besides running Rashford into the ground the other glaring situation was when Maguire sustained the hip injury and was kept on when he was clearly in discomfort and that from a player who tends to play all the time (likely playing through minor injuries often).

With Martinez he's clearly a player who will play if there's a chance he can and he was rushed back at the beginning of the season and we lost him for half the season because of it. On whom that incompetency is to blame I don't know. But today when Martinez went down he was so clearly injured, so genuinely gutted, and yet Erik - through no prevention of his medical team - just throws him back on. What the absolute feck was that?

And he happens to be our most important player. A lesser point is that we were already 2-0 up at that point, but this really is about protecting a player's fitness.

I just can't understand this.

 

[Judas]

Made no sense for him to play on another second, but you see it happen at every club, teams always trying to squeeze more from the players, and players of course wanting to play on. It's shit.

 

[Bastian]

Made no sense for him to play on another second, but you see it happen at every club, teams always trying to squeeze more from the players, and players of course wanting to play on. It's shit.

He didn't look too eager to go on I thought at the time. I know the way they deal with potential concussions is an absolute disgrace, but this was so clearly a serious situation and we saw 3 players run over to him immediately..

 

[RyRy11]

He's not getting more injured playing that extra minute or two. If it's an ACL it's going to need surgery regardless. Rushing people back too quickly is a problem but this has nothing yo do with that, it was a freak accident.

 

[VP89]

I absolutely hated how reckless Ole was with the fitness of his players and I suppose besides running Rashford into the ground the other glaring situation was when Maguire sustained the hip injury and was kept on when he was clearly in discomfort and that from a player who tends to play all the time (likely playing through minor injuries often).

With Martinez he's clearly a player who will play if there's a chance he can and he was rushed back at the beginning of the season and we lost him for half the season because of it. On whom that incompetency is to blame I don't know. But today when Martinez went down he was so clearly injured, so genuinely gutted, and yet Erik - through no prevention of his medical team - just throws him back on. What the absolute feck was that?

And he happens to be our most important player. A lesser point is that we were already 2-0 up at that point, but this really is about protecting a player's fitness.

I just can't understand this.

Where did you think Erik made the decision without any word from his medical staff? The chief medical doctor who we hired in the summer (highly rated from Arsenal) was the one who first consulted with Licha when he was on the pitch just injured.

Also, Ole took it to another level. Never managed Varane and ruined Martial with pain killers.

 

[HookedOnAPhelan]

This is just stupid and reeks of hindsight. First of all, who claims we lost him for half the season because he was "rushed back"? And Ten Hag and his medical team obviously can't have any idea whether he's really injured or not, and if Martinez himself says he can continue then it's ridiculous to blame Ten Hag for allowing him back in.

Some of you seem to have a problem accepting that shit happens sometimes, and nobody is to blame.

 

[mu4c_20le]

Every manager makes players play through the pain. The reason Ole made headlines was because he said something critical about Martial during a period of poor form, who fired back and said he should've mentioned he was not fully fit at the time. He wasn't even mad about being made to play through, just that he wasn't given credit for it.

With that said, I'm very surprised he took the precaution of taking off Mainoo early, but then took that ridiculous gamble with Martinez when we had at least two defenders on the bench.

 

[Oranges038]

Career ended again.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

Happens all the time. At every club. The physios don’t have a portable MRI. They will assess the injury as best they can on the fly but there’s very rarely any objective evidence they can use to make a decision. So it’s almost always up to the player to say whether he’s ok or not. And it’s not a huge risk anyway. The damage is already done. He was unlikely to do any additional significant damage at that point.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

He's not getting more injured playing that extra minute or two. If it's an ACL it's going to need surgery regardless. Rushing people back too quickly is a problem but this has nothing yo do with that, it was a freak accident.

Yeah, this, basically.

 

[Bastian]

Where did you think Erik made the decision without any word from his medical staff? The chief medical doctor who we hired in the summer (highly rated from Arsenal) was the one who first consulted with Licha when he was on the pitch just injured.

Also, Ole took it to another level. Never managed Varane and ruined Martial with pain killers.

I don't, I said his medical team did not prevent Martinez from carrying on. I see people have a completely different take on here, which I find surprising, not least because of his reaction to the injury to begin with. If there's a doubt why risk it?

I've already said this is what I hated most about Ole's reign, but Erik isn't far off in terms of running players into the ground. His tactical needs are too particular for him to reliably trust the squad he inherited, but he will still need to be realistic.

But I stick to my OP here, I'm amazed he played on. And I thought so at the time too.

 

[Kinky Melinky]

Thought this was very insightful

 

[Asger]

Where did you think Erik made the decision without any word from his medical staff? The chief medical doctor who we hired in the summer (highly rated from Arsenal) was the one who first consulted with Licha when he was on the pitch just injured.

Also, Ole took it to another level. Never managed Varane and ruined Martial with pain killers.

Ok so its Ole fault but not Ten Hag? What?? In both cases it should be on the medical staff….

 

[Withnail]

I don't, I said his medical team did not prevent Martinez from carrying on. I see people have a completely different take on here, which I find surprising, not least because of his reaction to the injury to begin with. If there's a doubt why risk it?

I've already said this is what I hated most about Ole's reign, but Erik isn't far off in terms of running players into the ground. His tactical needs are too particular for him to reliably trust the squad he inherited, but he will still need to be realistic.

But I stick to my OP here, I'm amazed he played on. And I thought so at the time too.

This looked to me to be a case of the player saying he was fine and them not having any other data to go off apart from that.

It seems a bit of a stretch to blame the manager and bringing Ole into it just seems like an attempt to bring weight to you're argument by invoking irrelevancies.

Do you have a medical background at all? I'm asking as some who do have already disagreed with you.

 

[Asger]

I don't, I said his medical team did not prevent Martinez from carrying on. I see people have a completely different take on here, which I find surprising, not least because of his reaction to the injury to begin with. If there's a doubt why risk it?

I've already said this is what I hated most about Ole's reign, but Erik isn't far off in terms of running players into the ground. His tactical needs are too particular for him to reliably trust the squad he inherited, but he will still need to be realistic.

But I stick to my OP here, I'm amazed he played on. And I thought so at the time too.

Wasn’t also his third match in a row in just one week? I would think that is risky for a player after long energy. Ten Hag is not famous for rotating players sadly.

 

[Bastian]

Thought this was very insightful

Hope he's right.

 

[Bastian]

This looked to me to be a case of the player saying he was fine and them not having any other data to go off apart from that.

It seems a bit of a stretch to blame the manager and bringing Ole into it just seems like an attempt to bring weight to you're argument by invoking irrelevancies.

Do you have a medical background at all? I'm asking as some who do have already disagreed with you.

Ha. I wasn't using Ole to synthetically bolster my argument. I'm saying I want a manager in general to be mindful of serious injuries and take a long-term view. And people on here say this happens all the time at every team (well, I only watch United matches these days and I don't really care about other clubs, so I couldn't say). Seemed to me Martinez was quite daunted, and maybe having missed all the season he was too eager to continue on (which I did not notice). I think he should have been protected immediately given the potential the impact could have had and the obvious discomfort he was in. And no, I do not have a medical background so you can disregard my opinions entirely.

 

[Tyrion]

If he'd have subbed him off and we drew 2-2, this place would have melted down demanding he be sacked for subbing our best defender.

 

[Withnail]

Ha. I wasn't using Ole to synthetically bolster my argument. I'm saying I want a manager in general to be mindful of serious injuries and take a long-term view. And people on here say this happens all the time at every team (well, I only watch United matches these days and I don't really care about other clubs, so I couldn't say). Seemed to me Martinez was quite daunted, and maybe having missed all the season he was too eager to continue on (which I did not notice). I think he should have been protected immediately given the potential the impact could have had and the obvious discomfort he was in. And no, I do not have a medical background so you can disregard my opinions entirely.

Fair enough. I just think he thought he could run it off and told them he was fine. Hopefully, as per @Kinky Melinky 's video it's just a strain and he's back in a couple of weeks.

 

[Bastian]

If he'd have subbed him off and we drew 2-2, this place would have melted down demanding he be sacked for subbing our best defender.

Nonsense. If it had turned out he'd have missed the Villa game and potential a cluster of matches no one in their right mind would have said a word.

 

[RedDevil@84]

And this is the second time this season. He got injured in the Bayern game and then played couple more games before being sidelined for months.

 

[Jericho]

Nonsense. If it had turned out he'd have missed the Villa game and potential a cluster of matches no one in their right mind would have said a word.

Exactly the point. Most people aren't in their right mind.

 

[Judas]

If he'd have subbed him off and we drew 2-2, this place would have melted down demanding he be sacked for subbing our best defender.

Crap. He was obviously injured, no one would have complained. It was obvious something was wrong. It would have simply been unfortunate.

 

[RedDevil@84]

If he'd have subbed him off and we drew 2-2, this place would have melted down demanding he be sacked for subbing our best defender.

Not true.

 

[VP89]

Ok so its Ole fault but not Ten Hag? What?? In both cases it should be on the medical staff….

Not quite, you're comparing apples and pears. Ole knew the injury sustained of his players when he'd make them play through painkillers.

As someone else said, ten hag and his staff didn't walk around with a portable mri scanner to know what the problem was with Licha yesterday, and as such rely also on the player themselves to express how they are feeling in real time.

 

[Unam333]

I don't, I said his medical team did not prevent Martinez from carrying on. I see people have a completely different take on here, which I find surprising, not least because of his reaction to the injury to begin with. If there's a doubt why risk it?

I've already said this is what I hated most about Ole's reign, but Erik isn't far off in terms of running players into the ground. His tactical needs are too particular for him to reliably trust the squad he inherited, but he will still need to be realistic.

But I stick to my OP here, I'm amazed he played on. And I thought so at the time too.

Difficult to be the manager isn't it? When we rotate fans here complain the manager is crazy to pick player x and player y. If we don't rotate the manager is running players into the ground.

 

[Gordon Godot]

Difficult to be the manager isn't it? When we rotate fans here complain the manager is crazy to pick player x and player y. If we don't rotate the manager is running players into the ground.

Is it? last season he didn't rotate, internally at club this was blamed as one of factors in our high injury rate. Every other PL team rested a lot in the Caraboa cup whereas we went nearly full strength

 

[Beachryan]

Think you have to trust the player when it's not a head injury, and certainly once the medical staff have checked him out, you leave it to them.

Football players get awful contact and twists all the time, I'd imagine way more in training every day for hours then the 90 each week. I've no problem at all if the player and the doctor said let's see for them to see.

 

[AndySmith1990]

If the player is deemed fit enough to play by the medical staff and the player himself has no objection, then I don't see any reason why a manager wouldn't start them. You have to trust the staff around you

 

[Murder on Zidane's Floor]

I absolutely hated how reckless Ole was with the fitness of his players and I suppose besides running Rashford into the ground the other glaring situation was when Maguire sustained the hip injury and was kept on when he was clearly in discomfort and that from a player who tends to play all the time (likely playing through minor injuries often).

With Martinez he's clearly a player who will play if there's a chance he can and he was rushed back at the beginning of the season and we lost him for half the season because of it. On whom that incompetency is to blame I don't know. But today when Martinez went down he was so clearly injured, so genuinely gutted, and yet Erik - through no prevention of his medical team - just throws him back on. What the absolute feck was that?

And he happens to be our most important player. A lesser point is that we were already 2-0 up at that point, but this really is about protecting a player's fitness.

I just can't understand this.

It's dumb dumb dumb stuff.

 

[Unam333]

Is it? last season he didn't rotate, internally at club this was blamed as one of factors in our high injury rate. Every other PL team rested a lot in the Caraboa cup whereas we went nearly full strength

That's just it? Fans are craving for success, we even took the Carabao Cup very seriously and we fielded a nearly full strength team every game. If we had started McTominay, Maguire in last season's games you can bet fans will complain the manager's team selection. United fans always find a stick to beat the manager with and this thread is a prime example of that. Fans aren't managers and us fans don't know if a player needs rests or carries a little knock.

Back ontopic, the manager trusts his physio to assess the gravity of the injury and the player himself has an input whether he feels he can carry on or not. The player is also the one who knows his body the best. The physio has no mobile MRI scan equipment at his disposal. Based on his staff and the player the manager can make a decision.

 

[NotChatGPT]

Is it? last season he didn't rotate, internally at club this was blamed as one of factors in our high injury rate. Every other PL team rested a lot in the Caraboa cup whereas we went nearly full strength

Stop making things up.

 

[FrankWhite]

I absolutely hated how reckless Ole was with the fitness of his players and I suppose besides running Rashford into the ground the other glaring situation was when Maguire sustained the hip injury and was kept on when he was clearly in discomfort and that from a player who tends to play all the time (likely playing through minor injuries often).

With Martinez he's clearly a player who will play if there's a chance he can and he was rushed back at the beginning of the season and we lost him for half the season because of it. On whom that incompetency is to blame I don't know. But today when Martinez went down he was so clearly injured, so genuinely gutted, and yet Erik - through no prevention of his medical team - just throws him back on. What the absolute feck was that?

And he happens to be our most important player. A lesser point is that we were already 2-0 up at that point, but this really is about protecting a player's fitness.

I just can't understand this.

I just think it's one those ACL injuries where people initial hope it isn't but then as they try to carry on, quickly find out it is. Shame for the player and us, as he's such a unique talent in that position. I don't see him playimg again this season.

 

[Hughes35]

Has it been confirmed what the damage is as yet? Really hope it's not an ACL. If so then we've seen the last of him for 12 months.

 

[Shiva87]

This is the worst thing that could happen this season. Losing our only proper CB practically for the entire period, and especially because a lot of this can be blamed on poor injury management. He should never have been rushed back from his first injury, and now this is a completely unrelated impact injury. You can't predict the angle of fall of the opponent on your leg.

 

[Mike Smalling]

This just comes across as looking for someone or something to blame. It was Coufals faults, it was the physios fault, Martinez is injury prone, etc. etc. It's all garbage. It was unfortunate that the player landed on Martinez' leg - any player could have hurt his knee in that situation.

 

[Jordi Cruyff 99]

He's not getting more injured playing that extra minute or two. If it's an ACL it's going to need surgery regardless. Rushing people back too quickly is a problem but this has nothing yo do with that, it was a freak accident.

This is such an odd perspective; pure pub talk. The nature and extent of the injury was not yet determined by that point. Furthermore, an “ACL” is not simply an ACL injury. There are obviously various grades and the nature of surgery and recovery corresponds with that.

 

[FrankWhite]

This just comes across as looking for someone or something to blame. It was Coufals faults, it was the physios fault, Martinez is injury prone, etc. etc. It's all garbage. It was unfortunate that the player landed on Martinez' leg - any player could have hurt his knee in that situation.

I know right? Completely unrelated to his previous injury.

 

[Jerom]

This just comes across as looking for someone or something to blame. It was Coufals faults, it was the physios fault, Martinez is injury prone, etc. etc. It's all garbage. It was unfortunate that the player landed on Martinez' leg - any player could have hurt his knee in that situation.

Probably would have. Just bad luck, nobody's fault.

 

[kouroux]

He's not getting more injured playing that extra minute or two. If it's an ACL it's going to need surgery regardless. Rushing people back too quickly is a problem but this has nothing yo do with that, it was a freak accident.

That's a risk that cannot be ignored tbh, you just can't say that. It only takes a split second for a career ending injury