The dumbest thing about this thread is that it ignores the fact that in literally every other football match played this weekend at least one footballer will have gone down in pain, got an identical assessment, limped off the pitch and came back on again to finish the match with no lasting problems. It’s a completely normal thing to happen. Using it as another reason to take a pop at an under fire manager really is scraping the bottom of the barrel.
Playing Martinez after he sustained an injury..
- Thread starter Bastian
- Start date
Spot on.
A lot of players play using pain killers, lots of ex pro stories of players requiring injections before matches.
Your hard on for ole is stupid.
if one manager relies on the medical staff advice, then it’s fair to say the same should apply to the other manager. Are you saying now that licha won’t play again if he needs a pain injection? Because ten hag knows better?
I was surprised Licha stayed on, tried to run it off, didn’t work, he came off. Hopefully not out for too long
My hard on is stupid?
Martial came out and publically criticised Ole for obligating him to play through injury. Ole played Rashford down to the ground when he really badly needed shoulder surgery. Ole couldn't keep Varane fit.
Have a word with yourself before comparing that to Licha playing for another 2 mins after being assessed by the head doctor mid game.
fecking hell
What gives me hope is he never had a serious knee injury, so there's no way for Martinez himself to be accurate in how severe or what it is in the first place. Whereas a player who previously had serious knee injuries would immediately know and signal when something has "popped", as he's experienced it before. Maybe it's a very minor injury in the knee, and Martinez panicked at the pain and the feeling of it, and got emotional at the thought of once again being out and leaving the team
He thought he could 'run it off' I guess.
I’m not comparing that to Licha playing on for two minutes. Calm down and read postsMy hard on is stupid?
Martial came out and publically criticised Ole for obligating him to play through injury. Ole played Rashford down to the ground when he really badly needed shoulder surgery. Ole couldn't keep Varane fit.
Have a word with yourself before comparing that to Licha playing for another 2 mins after being assessed by the head doctor mid game.
fecking hell
Even whilst walking the touchline he gave someone on the pitch a look as if to say "It's not good". And then he stands on the side next to ten Hag still looking like he's not sure, and they chuck him back on
Even if the risk of him worsening the injury is small, why risk it? Bowen got through on goal shortly afterwards and he was in no position to help out there.
Even if the risk of him worsening the injury is small, why risk it? Bowen got through on goal shortly afterwards and he was in no position to help out there.
That is what I saw too. So I wasn't imagining it!Even whilst walking the touchline he gave someone on the pitch a look as if to say "It's not good". And then he stands on the side next to ten Hag still looking like he's not sure, and they chuck him back on
Even if the risk of him worsening the injury is small, why risk it? Bowen got through on goal shortly afterwards and he was in no position to help out there.
Are you seriously worried about two minutes walk on it?
I read your post well. Suggesting there's a hard on for a manager that was notorious for poor injury management is just daft.
I'm pretty sure in the replay of the Bowen chance you can see him trying to run back, so that probably didn't help. But hopefully didn't add anything. I don't really know how it would work but you'd assume a tear would tear more if you ran on it.
Because it’s a contact sport where players get hurt multiple times each fixture. If you take a “why risk it?” attitude you’d rarely finish with eleven players on the pitch.Even whilst walking the touchline he gave someone on the pitch a look as if to say "It's not good". And then he stands on the side next to ten Hag still looking like he's not sure, and they chuck him back on
Even if the risk of him worsening the injury is small, why risk it? Bowen got through on goal shortly afterwards and he was in no position to help out there.
There seems to be an idea here that we should have been extra careful because he’s only recently back from injury but that was in his foot, not his knee. This could easily have been something he could run off. It wasn’t. Shit happens. That’s football.
Yeah but surely you base it on the way he went down? He looked fecked. Martinez has only ever properly gone down twice and it's for the pop in his foot and now this.
The way he went down and what happened after. He was able to weight bear and walked off the pitch without much of a limp. He actually jogged back onto the pitch. When he did his foot there was no chance of that happening.
I trust the medical team in their ability to make an assessment of an injury. They won’t always be correct (and obviously weren’t here) but if you err on the side of caution every time it would be a huge handicap to the team.
I've never stopped when I've injured myself in the gym. I think adrenalin keeps you going. And then it kicks in. So I understand why he went back on. Plus it's that spirit that makes him who he is.
Blame Martinez he obviously said he was feeling ok to play on when he wasn't (yep I'm taking the piss just like the assumption against ten hag or the medical staff)
You read it well and still took away that I was comparing players using pain injections before matches to play to licha staying on extra two mins to run it off. Not much more I can say then
Medical chief Ole personally ruined Martial with painkillers?
If you read my post better you'd know that wasn't my main point.
The man came out and said he literally couldn't accelerate, but was still asked to continue. For comparison, Ten Hag managed Martial far more carefully than that.
Once again. It is not manager who decides that. It is club doctors and players. If doctors and players says they are good to go then they are good to go. People need to know how football clubs work at micro level.
In this specific case, there's a massive exaggeration on here of what the medical team can do in a few mins when a player gets treatment on the pitch and then wants to go back on. It was very unlucky on Licha's part.
The idiotic scenarios are when you see a player who has come back from injury being rushed back (so Martinez for the reoccurrence of his foot injury, or when Martial did his hammy, then came back and did it again, or when Lingard was subbed on and then off in like 5 mins). Our medical team have had a huge question mark over their heads in my mind for years, these kind of scenarios of players coming back too early are not uncommon unfortunately
The idiotic scenarios are when you see a player who has come back from injury being rushed back (so Martinez for the reoccurrence of his foot injury, or when Martial did his hammy, then came back and did it again, or when Lingard was subbed on and then off in like 5 mins). Our medical team have had a huge question mark over their heads in my mind for years, these kind of scenarios of players coming back too early are not uncommon unfortunately
You could say that about every player who goes down with a knock. The player said he was ok, the physios thought he was ok, ETH isn't going to overrule them. 99 times out of 100 he would be fine to carry on. If the physios had 15 minutes with him at half time and still said he was ok you might have a point, or if ETH wheeled him out next game after badgering the club doctors all week.
Unfortunately due to the way he plays hes going to get more than his share of injuries.
I agree with the OP here.
we were 2-0 up and the impact obviously looked nasty. Erik should have pulled him off. Possibly shows his indecisive and meek in game management.
the damage may have already been done but there was no need to risk further aggravation.
we were 2-0 up and the impact obviously looked nasty. Erik should have pulled him off. Possibly shows his indecisive and meek in game management.
the damage may have already been done but there was no need to risk further aggravation.
Yes. But the manager still has authority to make a substitution whenever he sees fit.
Did he go to the dressing room immediately? I found it strange they did not record him walking to the tunnel. The last shot of him was putting a jacket and walking seemingly to the bench to sit down there...
That would certainly have taken Martinez's mind off any knee pain.
Have you not heard, ETH runs all scouting, all medical, all training, all commercial and all admin at United. I heard for my mate who works in the canteen that he insisted on it when he joined.
Players will always wanna play and say they're ok, even if they clearly aren't. Physios aren't magicians they barely have a few seconds to make a proper assessment.
Damage was already done...so arguing over playing an extra few minutes changes nothing.
Sure in hindsight Licha should of come straight off, but it was the player landing on his knee that will keep him out for months, not the extra few mins jogging.
Sure in hindsight Licha should of come straight off, but it was the player landing on his knee that will keep him out for months, not the extra few mins jogging.
We are all bracing ourselves for the ACL diagnosis and it will be really gutting.
Any news about the extent to his inhury?
A bit rude to call it a dumb thread. There are variables to consider;
1 - How important are those other players to the team? - Martinez is very important to us
2 - Have those other players been out for pre-longed periods already this season? - Martinez has.
3 - What is the match situation, is the team winning? home or away? - We were 2-0 up at home and I think less than 15 minutes to play, that's a pretty safe position
Given the above considerations, I agree with the OP. The moment he went down, I'd have taken him off as a precaution and not risked him for another minute.
Well exactly, between them they have a few seconds to come up with a best guess assessment. If they took the worst possible outcome every time then teams would run out of subs most games. It's certainly not on ETH to second guess the player themselves and the experts looking at them.
1 and 2 don’t come into it. The injury was completely unrelated to his previous issue (might even have been opposite limb?) and loads of very important players go down with knocks and play on afterwards. Look at Saka at Arsenal. He has the physios out 4 or 5 times each match and he would be a huge loss for them. You can’t treat players differently just because they’re important. Bruno is a huge loss for us (nobody else can play that role) and has had the physios on plenty of times this season without being subbed off.
3 is overstating how secure the result was. There was half an hour of football left and you don’t need to think back very far to come up with an example of a two goal cushion not being enough to comfortably see the result out.
Every game is a risk. Martinez is a professional, he can make his own decisions for his career. Coufal falling on his leg was the injury, lightly running on that knee for a couple of minutes isn't the issue here.
See it all the time at every club. The medical staff have a look, talk to the player and make a call. He must have felt ok enough to try carry on and if we take off every player who leaves the pitch for treatment then we won't have enough subs
This injury was an impact injury so not really about rushing him back too quickly.