Mason Greenwood | Please be respectful and stay on topic

Ali Dia · Feb 23, 2024

Tarrou said:
Sir Jim's comments can be read both ways. Either he's opening the door to bring him back, or he's preserving sale value for the summer.

Personally, I think it's the latter. Jim knows what's gonna happen if we bring him back, an absolute media shit-storm not to mention the clubs brand being tarnished for being associated with this feck-wit again.

I reckon Jim's played it well and he'll be sold to the highest bidder this summer, for probably around 40m.

This. If you were betting you’d be 90% in favour of him being sold.

For me I think the door is open insofar as we aren’t just sitting here saying we are going to give him away or we hate him. If he gets another few goals before the end of the season they can sit down and have one more chat. If he was to come back (I doubt he’s currently good enough to go this far out on a limb for and it’s the same manager who didn’t stand by him) but the fact remains he could still be a really effective PL player if he was managed better or was getting the right help at the very least. If he came back and made a statement with his wife and was in therapy that would be a lot lot better than him never saying or doing anything about it again for years and possibly still being a really shitty partner.

amolbhatia50k · Feb 23, 2024

FrankWhite said:
Have you guys seen this ridiculous article?
I mean, it's one thing saying the player shouldn't return, but saying the club can't keep the funds from his sale is absolutely nuts. I'm sure revenue gained by the news outlet from this article will be keep by them but we have a moral obligation not to keep the money.

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now we can’t even keep the fee

Fridge chutney · Feb 23, 2024

Fanatic 00237 said:
Yes, indeed. Only it can’t be simply because he “kicks a ball well” since Ronaldo is an all-time football phenomenon while Greenwood is just a regular talented young player with absolutely no certainty about whether he will fulfill his potential.

And I’ve given my reasons (in this thread) why I would not mind having him back, just wanted to point out that it’s not as simplistic as “because he’s a good player” and that doesn’t make me a vile human being either as I’m not defending nor even waving off any disgusting behaviour on his part.

So you are taking a contradictory stance on Ronaldo to prove that you don't just welcome Greenwood back "because he kicks a ball well"...

That's a ridiculous position to take.

Fridge chutney · Feb 23, 2024

desirere said:
There is no defending necessary here, for all i care he did everything you imagined him doing. That doesn’t condemn anyone for the rest of their damn lives. I’ve seen people do much worse and end up

Poor little Mason, earning 75k/week playing in sunny Spain. What a terrible condemnation.

desirere said:
People just have that absolutist line of reasoning, it’s either or… In their eyes this isn’t a conversation, when clearly it is. This has zero do do with the shite he did and more to do with our responsibility as a club who nurtured him.
...
I am almost sure this kind of abusive behaviour, feeling of superiority or unconditional acceptance stems deeply from our club culture of the past 10 years. The moment we started giving 18-19 year olds north of 100k a week we fecked up everything.

Ah yes, it's all the club's fault he tried to rape his partner and beat her. He bears no personal responsibility. What an absolutely dreadful take.

desirere said:
I’m all for second chances at redemption, if he truly turned a corner and the players don’t mind, he can redeem himself playing here. I’m all for second chances at redemption, if he truly turned a corner and the players don’t mind, he can redeem himself playing here.

Just think about this for a second, if he were to live out the rest of his life and career as a decent human being, would that be enough to say he redeemed himself? If the answer is yes, and honestly it should be yes, then there is no reason not to give him a chance.

Has he earned the benefit of the doubt? Why on earth would we assume he would suddenly live out the rest of his days as a decent human? What in his past leads you to believe this will happen? Was it the disciplinary issues with England? Was it the pictures of his battered partner? Was it the audio of attempted rape? Was it him breaking of bail to contact his partner? Please tell me because i am very curious to know!

JoeyJoJoJrShabadoo · Feb 23, 2024

For what it's worth I would love either if United made sozeable charitable donations to charities that help victims of spousal abuse and a variety of other causes. However they should not be forced into doing so by an ABU fan posing as a journalist.

FrankWhite · Feb 23, 2024

JoeyJoJoJrShabadoo said:
For what it's worth I would love either if United made sozeable charitable donations to charities that help victims of spousal abuse and a variety of other causes. However they should not be forced into doing so by an ABU fan posing as a journalist.

Can they really do a donation though, without contradicting themselves? That statement basically said "we don't think he's guilty but it's too difficult for him to continue here".

Wumminator · Feb 23, 2024

Why on Earth have some people taken so against the idea some of the proceeds of a sale should go to a charity? Seems like a fine if unlikely suggestion to me.

Acquire Me · Feb 23, 2024

Wumminator said:
Why on Earth have some people taken so against the idea some of the proceeds of a sale should go to a charity? Seems like a fine if unlikely suggestion to me.

There you go.

Pickle85 · Feb 23, 2024

Davicho said:
This is an issue about nationality, or better say a cultural thing due to the arrogant English or British culture... He is living happy with his girlfriend, trying to restart their lifes. In Spain, he is loved by Getafe's fans and enjoying his football again. However you can't accept that, and keep judging him as a person, as if any of you were moral judges.
His girlfriend forgive him but you can't. Sorry but it's ridiculous.

(Sorry for my english)

Did you think that your original post, in which you said exactly the same thing, didn't get enough of a reaction so you'd basically post it again? It wasn't worth it - it's still a terrible post. Again, it's telling that you seem more triggered by a perceived (and imagined) superiority on the part of the English than by a domestic abuser.

Maybe wait a day and post the same thing again. Third time lucky?

adexkola · Feb 23, 2024

Wumminator said:
Why on Earth have some people taken so against the idea some of the proceeds of a sale should go to a charity? Seems like a fine if unlikely suggestion to me.

It's an idiotic suggestion

This is a football club (which I think some are forgetting)

If the players and/or owners want to donate out of if their personal funds be my guest. Have Old Trafford host a fundraiser for domestic abuse? Absolutely.

Donate transfer proceeds? No ffs

ROFLUTION · Feb 23, 2024

Tarrou said:
Sir Jim's comments can be read both ways. Either he's opening the door to bring him back, or he's preserving sale value for the summer.

Personally, I think it's the latter. Jim knows what's gonna happen if we bring him back, an absolute media shit-storm not to mention the clubs brand being tarnished for being associated with this feck-wit again.

I reckon Jim's played it well and he'll be sold to the highest bidder this summer, for probably around 40m.

40m?

I'd snap the hand of any suitor for that amount. In my opinion we'd be lucky to get 20 because of his reputation.

ROFLUTION · Feb 23, 2024

Wumminator said:
Why on Earth have some people taken so against the idea some of the proceeds of a sale should go to a charity? Seems like a fine if unlikely suggestion to me.

Wouldn't that be a better idea if he was actually.. found guilty? By doing such a thing you're basically adding to the claim that he's guilty and the court of public opinion is the only one that really matters.

Wibble · Feb 23, 2024

Pickle85 said:
You seem to be confusing the right to an opinion with holding a reasonable opinion. The comments sections of the Sun and the Mail are not the place to find reasonable, well thought through opinions. Those people are free to hold those opinions of course but we shouldn't be making decisions using them as reasonable points of reference.

Or allowed to use sharp tools.

Solius · Feb 23, 2024

moses said:
And the comments section. (shudder)

Imagine the sources you’re citing being the most universally agreed upon cesspool area of the internet.

Wibble · Feb 23, 2024

united for life said:
if he’s going to play anywhere in the world, it might as well be us. I am afraid we are losing a very good player who can be an important part of our team for years. Read the united statement again. It says “Based on the evidence available to us, we have concluded that the material posted online did not provide a full picture and that Mason did not commit the offences in respect of which he was originally charged.”.

this seems to be ignored and we follow the hype that he should be sentenced for life.

he night have made a mistake, what it the level of his mistake? I dnt know. But as a young man, he should be given a chance to redeem himself and his future. Fairly.

Losing your wallet or taking your significant other to Macca's on Valentine's day is a mistake. What Greenwood was recorded doing was not a mistake.

Pickle85 · Feb 23, 2024

Wibble said:
Or allowed to use sharp tools.

Indeed. Coincidentally, many of the DM comments section inhabitants are blunt tools themselves.

brontelicious · Feb 23, 2024

Anyone suggesting 'Ratcliffe has mentioned values and therefore must be thinking of a sale', please remember SJR may want to install 'new' values into the club and use Greenwood's implementation as the fulcrum.

When you consider Ratcliffe is considering a high turnover of staff, this can be considered to match the new position.

Distressing stuff, but quite possible.

The Boy · Feb 23, 2024

Tarrou said:
Sir Jim's comments can be read both ways. Either he's opening the door to bring him back, or he's preserving sale value for the summer.

Personally, I think it's the latter. Jim knows what's gonna happen if we bring him back, an absolute media shit-storm not to mention the clubs brand being tarnished for being associated with this feck-wit again.

I reckon Jim's played it well and he'll be sold to the highest bidder this summer, for probably around 40m.

This makes so much sense for the club, any income from a Greenwood sale is great for FFP as he's homegrown. It makes sense from a business sense, a PR sense and an ethical sense, absolute no brainer.

Saying publicly it's a decision still to be made definitely preserves value as well, if you say he's going, you'll be hit by low ball offers.

Overhaul FC · Feb 23, 2024

golden_blunder said:
Sorry I should have been specific, that if we get 40m for MG it may not seem much but in FFP as a homegrown, it can go a long way

Ok understood.

AngeloHenriquez · Feb 23, 2024

Not sure what everybody is getting upset about - As someone who is in favor of a greenwood return, I don't think anything he said suggested he will bring Greenwood back but instead he is saying to the public nothing is decided, I think that simply strengthens his negotiating hand, there will be too much "Other" attention for him to consider allowing him to return.

Overhaul FC · Feb 23, 2024

Woziak said:
No it was £120m for all 4 ; Mason Greenwood (40m), Sancho(35m), Antony(30m) and Facundo (15m)

If Mason scores and assists another 10 goals this season say 50m for him and 25m for Antony or 30m for Sancho, we should also remember that Alvaro Fernandez, Hannibal and Shola Shoretire like Mason are all homegrown products so they represent 100% profit on your books as they have no transfer fee amortised. So selling those 4 for £70m is miles better than selling a player like Casemiro for £40m and getting rid of his £15m per year contract as the club still has 3 instalments of £14m(club paid £70m on a 5 year contract) which is £42m to be offset against the £40m received, the club only benefits from Casemiro wages however selling 4 academy products for £70m is pure profit and therefore added to your net transfer fund.
Hope this helps ?

Thanks for that, its sad in a way that FFP will lead clubs to be more inclined to sell their own academy players going forwards. Like Gallagher at Chelsea. Final nail in the coffin for wanting to see players stay at a club for a decade.

Vault Dweller · Feb 23, 2024

Solius said:
Because otherwise we'd be entertaining endless theories. Maybe the audio was developed in a lab by our Pl rivals. Maybe he was acting in a play and is embarassed his love for acting will come out. It's pointless.

The logical conclusion is:

He beat her multiple times in their relationship - She showed multiple pictures of multiple injuries with the caption "this is what Mason Greenwood does to me". Does. Not 'did'.

He had tried to pressure her to have sex before this recording, because she had her phone ready to record covertly. This is only done by somebody who expects something to happen and highly likely they've experience the situation before and now have the presence of mind to be ready and record it this time.

Imo these two things are indisputable but since nothing is ever 100% people find it convenient to hide behind that fact.

100% this.

Marcus · Feb 23, 2024

Asking the club to pay up for an individual player's non-football related folly seems a bit off. Fining the club for it's fans misbehaving in the stadium is ok. They could have hired more security and didn't. The ABU journo must have had fun writing that piece. What about asking Newcastle donate to a fund to protect journalists then? Or Man City to donate to causes to abate the effects of climate change? Those would be worthwhile.

Solius · Feb 23, 2024

Vault Dweller said:
100% this.

I've made that point about 7 times in this thread over the last few months and nobody on the 'other side' of the debate has ever responded to it.

Fanatic 00237 · Feb 23, 2024

Wibble said:
It was a civil case whereas Greenwood was a criminal case. And despite the recent Ronaldo case being dismissed due to the only new evidence being leaked material that was subject to lawyer client priveledge I wouldn't want him within a million miles of United again. This should be the default position. No sexual predators.

He is continuing his extremely priveledge and well paid life. I have no control over that but I just hope that this is nowhere near United. He is a scumbag and an unrepentant one at that. And I do think people are acting despicably if they fawn over scumbags, DV/sexual predator type scumbags in particular. Hardly a controversial position.

If I follow your drift, that means you consider all Ronaldo fans (and fanboys) to be despicable people? Personally, I'm absolutely not one, but I find that position a little bit extreme, to be honest.

Marcus · Feb 23, 2024

We just need this to be over. Sell Greenwood for a decent fee. Keep that fee and buy alternatives.

Tarrou · Feb 23, 2024

ROFLUTION said:
40m? I'd snap the hand of any suitor for that amount. In my opinion we'd be lucky to get 20 because of his reputation.

Might be too optimistic but the scandal wasn’t in Spain or Italy and those clubs don’t need to worry about the PR so much.. as he’s playing well in Spain I could see a few clubs bidding for him to get us a decent fee

Solius · Feb 23, 2024

Marcus said:
We just need this to be over. Sell Greenwood for a decent fee. Keep that fee and buy alternatives.

It'll never be over as long as he's playing football really. There's now an odd amount of people who will just follow his career and can somehow easily just separate the two things.

didz · Feb 23, 2024

Wumminator said:
Why on Earth have some people taken so against the idea some of the proceeds of a sale should go to a charity? Seems like a fine if unlikely suggestion to me.

Charities exist solely on their reputations, so they'd likely not be too happy to take money that had anything to do with Greenwood.

It would do them far more good to have direct involvement in some kind of program alongside the club focused on educating young people and providing the 'guidance' that has been referenced as lacking. Doing that alongside quietly earmarking a portion of the sale for investment in the women's team would seem like a better idea for all parties, I would imagine.

Solius · Feb 23, 2024

Wumminator said:
Why on Earth have some people taken so against the idea some of the proceeds of a sale should go to a charity? Seems like a fine if unlikely suggestion to me.

I'm not entirely against some of it going to charity, however it's impossible. Doing so would mean the club essentially admitting Greenwood is an abuser (which he is), but legally they cannot do that.

You'd also always get critics for the amount you choose to donate. It'll be too little or too much for some people. Not worth it, but the club could try to partner more with charities regularly, including women's refuge ones.

Fanatic 00237 · Feb 23, 2024

Fridge chutney said:
So you are taking a contradictory stance on Ronaldo to prove that you don't just welcome Greenwood back "because he kicks a ball well"...

That's a ridiculous position to take.

My goodness, it's really exhausting to respond to someone (deliberately?) misrepresenting your words. Why would you think I'm only now taking a contradictory stance on Ronaldo to prove a point? I'll give you the benefit of doubt and spell it out clearly: I had that stance on Ronaldo when we were trying to sign him up from Juve (the second time), it had absolutely nothing to do with Greenwood. I'm not sure what's ridiculous about making you understand that people might welcome Greenwood back for reasons other than those you have made up in your mind. Or maybe you were happy for us to sign up Ronaldo at the time (regardless of the stories) and now you're embarrassed about it? It's alright to change your mind, contrary to you, I won't judge you.

Darlington Padgett · Feb 23, 2024

Wumminator said:
Why on Earth have some people taken so against the idea some of the proceeds of a sale should go to a charity? Seems like a fine if unlikely suggestion to me.

Because the club did nothing wrong. Many journalists, la liga, Getafe and many news outlets made profits out of that saga. Do they need to donate all of that too? I'm not against the donation, I'm against that they are holding Manchester United accountable for someone else's actions.

Why is Getafe not getting the hate United is getting from everyone? SJR having to answer those questions in his first interview and being criticized while La liga is creating compilations and posts featuring him.

Vault Dweller · Feb 23, 2024

Solius said:
I've made that point about 7 times in this thread over the last few months and nobody on the 'other side' of the debate has ever responded to it.

Yeah you're fighting a good fight in here mate. I've made the points you've referred to to friends and others and it's the fundamentals of my stance more than anything, and as you say I haven't seen or heard a genuinely rational counter.

Pickle85 · Feb 23, 2024

Fanatic 00237 said:
My goodness, it's really exhausting to respond to someone (deliberately?) misrepresenting your words. Why would you think I'm only now taking a contradictory stance on Ronaldo to prove a point? I'll give you the benefit of doubt and spell it out clearly: I had that stance on Ronaldo when we were trying to sign him up from Juve (the second time), it had absolutely nothing to do with Greenwood. I'm not sure what's ridiculous about making you understand that people might welcome Greenwood back for reasons other than those you have made up in your mind. Or maybe you were happy for us to sign up Ronaldo at the time (regardless of the stories) and now you're embarrassed about it? It's alright to change your mind, contrary to you, I won't judge you.

Why do you keep bringing Ronaldo up? Can we just discuss the greenwood case on its own merits? You've had multiple people tell you multiple times that they wouldn't welcome Ronaldo back and either weren't aware of the circumstances in Vegas at the time or didn't want him back, yet you're still mithering on about his case as if it's relevant.

Solius · Feb 23, 2024

Vault Dweller said:
Yeah you're fighting a good fight in here mate. I've made the points you've referred to to friends and others and it's the fundamentals of my stance more than anything, and as you say I haven't seen or heard a genuinely rational counter.

The thing is as well, if he'd initially come out and just admitted it before going on to say he was incredibly sorry and would seek professional help for anger/control issues (or whatever it is) then I'm willing to bet a lot more people would err towards the rehab/redemption side of things. Admitting you did wrong is a very disarming thing to do and could've given him a better chance of staying.

As of now they've still not explained a single thing to the fans and instead just left it all vague which has caused certain people to twist themselves in knots trying to find loopholes or minuscule possibilities he's a wholly innocent sweet baby boy.

golden_blunder · Feb 23, 2024

Overhaul FC said:
Thanks for that, its sad in a way that FFP will lead clubs to be more inclined to sell their own academy players going forwards. Like Gallagher at Chelsea. Final nail in the coffin for wanting to see players stay at a club for a decade.

True, but on the flip said it will force clubs to keep producing homegrown players

Fanatic 00237 · Feb 23, 2024

Pickle85 said:
Why do you keep bringing Ronaldo up? Can we just discuss the greenwood case on its own merits? You've had multiple people tell you multiple times that they wouldn't welcome Ronaldo back and either weren't aware of the circumstances in Vegas at the time or didn't want him back, yet you're still mithering on about his case as if it's relevant.

Sorry, I'm not sure what triggered you there but if you follow the quoted message you would realise that I was responding to a particular post? It's all part of the bigger discussion, if you're not interested then you mustn't respond.
I have discussed Greenwood at length already and I also think it's relevant and interesting to bring up Ronaldo here as he is suspected of something similarly disgusting.

Slevs · Feb 23, 2024

FrankWhite said:
Have you guys seen this ridiculous article?
I mean, it's one thing saying the player shouldn't return, but saying the club can't keep the funds from his sale is absolutely nuts. I'm sure revenue gained by the news outlet from this article will be keep by them but we have a moral obligation not to keep the money.

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The world's gone mad

Pickle85 · Feb 23, 2024

Fanatic 00237 said:
Sorry, I'm not sure what triggered you there but if you follow the quoted message you would realise that I was responding to a particular post? It's all part of the bigger discussion, if you're not interested then you mustn't respond.
I have discussed Greenwood at length already and I also think it's relevant and interesting to bring up Ronaldo here as he is suspected of something similarly disgusting.

I know you were responding to a particular post but you were the one that brought Ronaldo up initially here:

Fanatic 00237 said:
In response to this in particular which keeps being brought up, contrary to the wide majority of United fans (in this forum and elsewhere), I was absolutely against the club bringing Ronaldo back partly due to past accusations laid against him in the US. It felt like his celebrity status had put him above the law and no one would dare reject him "because he can kick a ball well".

Fast-forward a few years later and we have MG who is accused of something similarly disgusting. I was as disgusted as everyone else when the news broke out. After a more in-depth process, he is allowed to return playing but this time the whole world wants him to be banned from ever playing again (I mean before Getafe came calling). Seriously, I think if Ronaldo could be forgiven (without apology nor sanction of any sort) and allowed to continue dominating world football, then MG (who was much younger at his time) deserves no less tolerance. And the accusation that some are defending him just because "he can kick a ball well" does not sit well for me. He isn't blowing off the roof at Getafe yet I wouldn't mind at all, if he can continue playing then why not at United, if the club wants him and he wants to come?

No matter how badly you want it to be relevant, the two incidents aren't connected in any way and each should be treated as a standalone situation. You're bringing Ronaldo into the conversation to try to muddy the waters and paint people as hypocrites when that doesn't change what Greenwood did and how people feel obliged to respond to it one iota.

BD · Feb 23, 2024

Solius said:
I've made that point about 7 times in this thread over the last few months and nobody on the 'other side' of the debate has ever responded to it.

That's what they do. It's the exact same with duafc's posts - they are mostly ignored, except for people saying how much they agree with them. And then the posters doof was responding to come back in a while later, saying the same stuff as before.

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