Even if he wins and gets ucl football, I'd be nervous to give him the reigns next season seeing the lack of identity.
Erik ten Hag - Manchester United manager
- Thread starter sewey89
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Such a myth
<3 genuinely no hard feelings we just strongly disagree
How is that a myth?
Most of the players we signed under him have been free or on loan. There have been one or two crap deals like Antony but I find that opinion an exaggeration.
Different league, different challenges.
I also have some sympathies because we appointed him as a coach and it seemed that he was put in sole control of transfer targets because we were not run like a football club, with no real help or knowledge from above.
With all that said, yesterday showed a clear inability to adapt. After the first 10 minutes, tactical changes should have been made. He will have to the end of the season and we will part ways. That's inevitable now.
How is that linked to the part you quoted?
How many of those games would you describe as good performances? There’s more to it than just the final score.
Seriously?
I mean, yes. We’re 6th with a GD of 0, 8 points from 5th and 11 from 4th. We came in last in our CL group. We’ve lost 11 matches in the league. We have a -6.8 xGD. We are 14th in goals scored with only 40, our worst showing post SAF. We’ve given up 495 shots in the league so far, 3rd most after Luton and Sheffield. It goes on and on.
I dunno what else to say. We could lose 10-0 to Liverpool and you’d probably still not want to sack him. Again, I admire you energy in defending him and I’m not even joking.
ETH has potentially 2 cup games and 9 league games left. How many of these games do the ETH disciples think we will win? Also how many games will be play decent footy in and look like a well coached and managed team ?
It is delusional to think the only problem with our football is just the lack of press when everyone has been singing about the set up and how we have space in midfield and defence as big as Alaska.And I would disprove everything you say and we’d all high 5 and all the models in the world would be like wow that was so awesome let’s have an orgy. But it’s getting late and there are better things to do
Buy players that can perform to a high standard in the PL in a high pressing transition side. That would help everything you have asked for.
Keep players fit and help prevent injuries particularly long term ones. That would also help keep the players who can do what we want ready to play.
A bit silly to suggest structure won’t help us perform better.
Numerous other marginal gains.
In any case, the fraud brought these players in, it is naive to think he won't have a say in whom we bring in and the evidence suggest his profiling of players is dogshit.
Our medical department is shite, I will give you that but we are not the only team with injuries, Brentford had more players missing yesterday than we did and they managed 85 touches in our box.
Yes? Unless my english is terrible I don't really see how your answer make any sense, I wrote that he brought(or is using/favoring) a fair amount of the shite and your answer is that it's a myth because they were loans or free, as if the term brought(bring) doesn't apply.
10m quid for one year of Amrabat, 60m for Mount when McAllister cost 35m and was more of what we needed.
Jury is out on Hojlund and it is criminal to spend that much on him with not enough top flight experience.
Signing Antony having worked with him for 2 years suggest to me he has a poor judgement of players.
You're not making sense. You quoted a post that said a fair amount of the shite in the squad was brought in under him - and you called it a myth. When asked to substantiate calling it a myth your answer was "free deals and loans". How is that related to the initial statement?
Depends what you mean by 'brought'
It could mean both what he brought to the table in terms of his ability or brought in terms of what he has brought to the club in player recruitment. I accept there may be a misunderstanding here.
I don't know where to start all the feel good factor before/during the International break is well and truly gone. I fail to understand what are the tactics being deployed and the structure throughout the season. Why is Ten Haag so stubborn to realize one man pivot is basically asking for trouble unless you have a prime Kante or player like Rice in there, who is strong, powerful, workhorse to run all day, whereas we have Maino who struggles after 60 minute and Casemiro who looks like 40 year old when playing.
Plus even if you have a great defensive midfielder, if your front 5 presses and the rest of the team does not follow suit, it means one switch to the other side fullback and the other team have basically started a counter attack already. It's a suicidal tactic whichever way you look at it. It also means the midfielders/forwards have to run aimlessly all day, first to press and then to run back to help the defence (could be a reason for so many injuries as well)
What are other options one may ask, either all team should press high up top or deploy the tactic we used in Ole and Mourinho time, where we sat at half way and only pressed once they crossed the half way, it meant less space between midfield and defence hence difficult for other teams to play through.
I am shocked that at this level Ten Haag is so naive, no wonder we concede soo many shots and chances, whatever we say about Van Gaal, he was smart enough after Leicester debacle he reverted to a solid structure and by the way of possession we kept opposition at bay. So the tactic was there and it made sense, the thing which did not work for him was we would not tolerate this style of play at manutd, plus he didn't have a Robben type world class player to make it work.
I think in all of these managers we had after SAF, there is a reason why we have conceded seven against Liverpool and Six against City with Ten Haag only, its because his tactical acumen and the structure of team is the worst where we are practically playing Basketball not football. He has the likes of Amad and Mount, he must use them instead of Bruno and Rashford.
There is also an argument that we need new players, and i agree we need players who are strong, powerful capable of pressing and running all day but also technically amazing to keep the ball when pressed basically Rodri and B.Silva are perfect prototype of type of players we need to up our level. But i am afraid if we keep Ten Haag, we will again be shopping in Dutch League and will be crying out for the same thing next year March as well.
We have the players (when fit) to deploy a better possession based team and structure if there is a capable coach.
Onana,
Dalot Magure/Varane Licha Shaw
Casemiro Maino Eriksen
Amad Hojlund Mount/Garnacho
Plus even if you have a great defensive midfielder, if your front 5 presses and the rest of the team does not follow suit, it means one switch to the other side fullback and the other team have basically started a counter attack already. It's a suicidal tactic whichever way you look at it. It also means the midfielders/forwards have to run aimlessly all day, first to press and then to run back to help the defence (could be a reason for so many injuries as well)
What are other options one may ask, either all team should press high up top or deploy the tactic we used in Ole and Mourinho time, where we sat at half way and only pressed once they crossed the half way, it meant less space between midfield and defence hence difficult for other teams to play through.
I am shocked that at this level Ten Haag is so naive, no wonder we concede soo many shots and chances, whatever we say about Van Gaal, he was smart enough after Leicester debacle he reverted to a solid structure and by the way of possession we kept opposition at bay. So the tactic was there and it made sense, the thing which did not work for him was we would not tolerate this style of play at manutd, plus he didn't have a Robben type world class player to make it work.
I think in all of these managers we had after SAF, there is a reason why we have conceded seven against Liverpool and Six against City with Ten Haag only, its because his tactical acumen and the structure of team is the worst where we are practically playing Basketball not football. He has the likes of Amad and Mount, he must use them instead of Bruno and Rashford.
There is also an argument that we need new players, and i agree we need players who are strong, powerful capable of pressing and running all day but also technically amazing to keep the ball when pressed basically Rodri and B.Silva are perfect prototype of type of players we need to up our level. But i am afraid if we keep Ten Haag, we will again be shopping in Dutch League and will be crying out for the same thing next year March as well.
We have the players (when fit) to deploy a better possession based team and structure if there is a capable coach.
Onana,
Dalot Magure/Varane Licha Shaw
Casemiro Maino Eriksen
Amad Hojlund Mount/Garnacho
I doubt he negotiates the fee for the player so I'm not going to hold that against him as there are vetos involved.
Mount I'm not going to judge just yet. Jury is out on Hojlund?
Be serious, you read "bought" instead of "brought".
No, I read your post correctly
Martinez 57m
Malacia 12m
Casemiro 65m
Mount 55m
Antony 81m
Hojlund 64m
Onana 45m
Bayindir 4.3m
What is the objective of football? To win at all costs.
But I do agree with you our performances haven’t been outstanding.
I do not believe the current football we play in the long term vision. I do not believe the current football we play is long term sustainable to be a top side.
I also believe Ten Hag has amazingly got results in very suboptimal conditions. And that he’s been pragmatic in getting wins.
Yeah we’re not a top side.
The only stat I don’t care about is the shots one. But the rest yeah of course I’m not happy about it.
To be clear I don’t think I’ve ever said this season has been a success or something I’ve taken much enjoyment from.
I get my position isn’t a popular one here but I’m not blind. I don’t love how we’re playing, I don’t like that we aren’t playing better football.
But I also think we’ve been dealt a particularly shit hand with injuries, take over, scandal and the rest that means for this one season (and I stress this one season) I’m willing to be incredibly patient and understanding as I can see the rough plan and what’s missing.
I know that isn’t what everyone sees but I think it’s there and whatever happens I’ll back INEOS decision even if it is a new manager.
I just think we’re underestimating the size of the task at hand.
Where have I said that’s our only problem? I was responding to your concerns.
A more joined up press deals with the space between the lines? This in turn means players are closer together for turnovers in possession (both of offensively and defensively) which means we can take better advantage of the transition and exploit space or defend it.
The PL is a difficult league. We’ve beaten Brentford earlier in the season and drew yesterday. Two wins is obviously better but we aren’t missing out on CL because of that result we’re missing out because of our injuries across the entire season and lack of squad profile to deal with them.
Is that a wild take? What has he done before united or this season to suggest he looks like a hit? He has had far more bad games than good onesI doubt he negotiates the fee for the player so I'm not going to hold that against him as there are vetos involved.
Mount I'm not going to judge just yet. Jury is out on Hojlund?
Okay, what is your point?
That it’s not a myth?
The point is he has wasted 400m and most of his signings wernt loans and freebies
It is a myth that we have bought poorly when most of the transfers we have made under ETH have been either free transfers or loans.
The players we paid money for have had a pretty decent success rate with a few notable exceptions.
He has three of the most selfish attackers I've ever seen at utd in terms of Rashford, Garnacho and Anthony. I'm not saying he is amazing and can't do better but it is well documented how poor we are in attack and we're often refered to as moments fc.
1. It's not been wasted, we've signed good players out of that money.
2. Most of the transfers are loans or free.
@Leftback99 still waiting.
@DSG still waiting
Key point here when fit.
We’ve never played this XI together. We’ve never had them all simultaneously fit.
Winning at all costs is not what it’s all about. If it were, people would just check the scores at the end rather than watching the game. Even if it was all that mattered, performances still matter. Results eventually catch up with them. We had the same under Ole.
A point that I agree with you on (as I mentioned the sustainability of performance).
Long term this isn’t how we will play so right now we’re fighting for results.
He signed Casemiro, Mount, Amrabat, Antony and Malacia who are all now deadweight. £240m outlay.
He gave Rashford a giant new contract and made him undroppable. £15m a year.
Made Bruno captain and lets him play every minute of every game despite regular shitshow performances.
It's also largely ETH's fault we still have Martial, Maguire and McTominay all stinking up the place. A different manager would have firmly pushed at least some of them out the door. ETH has made them all indispensable at different stages.
Not a wild take at all.
It has been wasted, he has spent 400m to make us worse than weve been at any point since Sir Alex retired.
We have as many injuries as Villa and Spurs and the reason why we are.missing out it's not just because of injuries or squad profile but because he is the worst of those three managers, finito!
Brentford had more players missing out yesterday than we did.
Since Emery came to Villa, they have gotten more points than us with arguably a far more inferior squad trying to survive relegation the previous season.
It is delusional to think this man is any good, he sold us a dream but the reality is completely different.
Only Antony is really a waste of money at this point. Doesnt look like he can step up from the Ajax level and was already too expensive anyway.
If you want to be harsh and forget about last season i suppose you could add Casemiro to the list as a waste of money. He surely wasnt a waste last year. Mount has not been able to play because of injuries so you can call him a waste when it suits your narrative.
Onana and Hojlund were expensive but are showing why they cost so much money. Martinez was really good last season but has been unlucky with injuries. Malacia is a cheap back up with potential and didnt cost much. Just like Bayindir is just a cheap reserve goalkeeper.
I find the 'wasted 400m' narrative a bit boring. Only Antony is really a failure at this time but unfortunatly the failed singing was the most expensive of them all.
You could argue that only Antony and maybe Casemiro have been poor transfers.
The rest are fine.
Not debating the other stuff as that's got nothing to do with my point.
Yes it is.
And that's point I made. Even if people will have a different take on some players, the reality is that a fair amount are directly linked to ETH whether they been bought, loaned, signed for free, been undroppable or put in terrible tactical contexts.
Which makes me question his judgement more than have faith in his ability to "clean" the squad this summer or during any summer. Especially since he has never done such a thing in his career, his experience is as a head coach not a "british" manager.