Varane being ridiculously unreliable is part of that.
We don't play better than Bournemouth
Erik ten Hag - Manchester United manager
- Thread starter sewey89
- Start date
We don't play better than Bournemouth
Agreed. I've lost patience with Shaw too. We might not 'play' better than Bournemouth, but we are better than them.
My bigger concern with ETH is not the circle jerk nonsense about XG or shots on goal, it’s been game management, particularly in the last 3 games.
Whatever about what went on in the games , leading all the games near the end or in injury time, to drop points like that is not just annoying , it’s demoralising. Liverpool penalty was not a penalty but I really think taking Garnacho off shifted momentum back to Pool that put us under more pressure that allowed them to be in a position to win the penalty.
Chelsea game was over. Even if there was ridiculous amount of injury time and they equally got a non penalty , our team keeps leaving these chances.
I’m gonna address the penalty thing cause I’m sick of the nonsense written about it. It’s not a penalty if a player looks for contact to make it a penalty. I don’t think either Chelsea penalties or Liverpool ones were fouls, it’s not even clear that there was any meaningful contact.
The sport choosing to adopt this cheating technique does not validate it. If you clench your knuckles in anger and a player walks or runs into your fist, it’s not a red card. Players looking to make fouls is not something that should be endorsed The sport needs to sort itself out on that.
And the “Elliot had to move out of AWBs way” does not validate it either. If I move towards a player to cut off their route to goal, they will have to move. If they choose to run into me that’s not a foul.
And the “well it was clumsy/reckless tackle” doesn’t validate the peno either. Neither makes a tackle a foul and if the attacking player didn’t need to make contact (ie they could clearly avoid contact) , then the tackle is irrelevant. Again, I just think the sport is adopting cheating and too lazy to address it.
Just really annoys me that it’s considered a legitimate penalty because it looks like it and the greatest defence is ambiguous sort of “that’s a penalty in todays game” waffle.
Whatever about what went on in the games , leading all the games near the end or in injury time, to drop points like that is not just annoying , it’s demoralising. Liverpool penalty was not a penalty but I really think taking Garnacho off shifted momentum back to Pool that put us under more pressure that allowed them to be in a position to win the penalty.
Chelsea game was over. Even if there was ridiculous amount of injury time and they equally got a non penalty , our team keeps leaving these chances.
I’m gonna address the penalty thing cause I’m sick of the nonsense written about it. It’s not a penalty if a player looks for contact to make it a penalty. I don’t think either Chelsea penalties or Liverpool ones were fouls, it’s not even clear that there was any meaningful contact.
The sport choosing to adopt this cheating technique does not validate it. If you clench your knuckles in anger and a player walks or runs into your fist, it’s not a red card. Players looking to make fouls is not something that should be endorsed The sport needs to sort itself out on that.
And the “Elliot had to move out of AWBs way” does not validate it either. If I move towards a player to cut off their route to goal, they will have to move. If they choose to run into me that’s not a foul.
And the “well it was clumsy/reckless tackle” doesn’t validate the peno either. Neither makes a tackle a foul and if the attacking player didn’t need to make contact (ie they could clearly avoid contact) , then the tackle is irrelevant. Again, I just think the sport is adopting cheating and too lazy to address it.
Just really annoys me that it’s considered a legitimate penalty because it looks like it and the greatest defence is ambiguous sort of “that’s a penalty in todays game” waffle.
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Says who?
The bookies.
Just saw that he has highlighted a new striker as his main priority this summer?
If nothing else, this confirms to me that he's completely clueless. A new striker to feed off the same scraps as the current one? His current plan is to improve us by exactly 0%.
If nothing else, this confirms to me that he's completely clueless. A new striker to feed off the same scraps as the current one? His current plan is to improve us by exactly 0%.
Greenwood's probably getting sold, and Martial is already as good as gone. The unavailability of our first-choice teenager forward creates a conundrum with Rashford played through the middle, which doesn't benefit either Rashford or the team. Hojlund's inexperience should also be factored in. Whoever the manager is next season, he will be a madman - certainly not clueless - not to ask for reinforcements up front.
Hojlud managed 1 shot in 3 games post March international break
Well, you asked. I saw it this morning when i was checking the footy schedule for the day. Most apps include betting odds nowadays. My initial thought was similar to yours, but we've dropped many points from winning positions lately. It might explain the odds, too.Seriously?
That is easy money.
It was exactly the same decision against Chelsea that stopped us being able to get out of our own half. It's maddening when the same things keep happening.
I didn't see much about it being his "main priority", he was asked whether we should get a new striker in the summer and the beginning of his answer was "it would help." Given one of our strikers is Martial who will hopefully be gone in the summer, I can't really disagree with that.
Do we really need to make up issues to be annoyed about with him when the terrible football is already more than enough?
Erm because he's shown in 75% of his time here he's been pretty shit. The other "downgrades" haven't.
Exactly. Change the names a little and you have some top up n coming foreign managers that the sheep will swear blind they're the next fergie.
I was actually trying to assess where we are now. You might think it's pushing a narrative, but is it wrong that those three should be rotation options rather than starters every single game? Do you think he keeps bringing them off because he wants to or because they are young and should be protected?Why on earth should Hojlund Mainoo and Garnacho be classed as just rotation options to bolster a narrative that ETH doesn't have a squad he likes?
We don't know he 'pushed so hard' for them. We urgently needed a RW late last summer. If told he could sign any in the world and ETH only wanted Antony, then that's a huge black mark against his name. Surely it's much more likely he thought he could get a hard working reliable young player for a decent price, then our buying team did what they do.
Buying Mount as a backup to Bruno only makes sense if we'd had enough money to fill our other gaps. Buying him as part of a midfield setup that included a Casemiro who could still run kind of makes sense. But ultimately not the player we needed. This is what happens when the manager is tasked with doing all the extra jobs. It doesn't make him a bad coach.
This, like a lot of your post, reeks of closed-mindedness. You've made up your mind about ETH so everything about him is terrible.
Exactly the same drivel the Ole outers kept banging on about...
Do you not accept that the club has been run by incompetent people overseen by ignorant owners? If you do, then surely you must accept that the vast sums spent are a result of them, not the managers. They've not been allowed to go out and revamp the squad. They've been told they can buy another player, within certain constraints, but without the freedom to control the overall budget and the ins and outs.
Given our injuries and problems this season, our position is forgiveable. For me anyway. Sure, he could have discarded his philosophy completely and been a bit more pragmatic and probably got some better results and performances. I'm quite sure Mourinho and Ole would be getting more from the squad right now, for example. But Ten Hag is clearly sticking(roughly) to his plan with the intention that he'll be here with a more suitable squad next year. That might have been a mistake and could lose him his job, but I'm pretty sure the majority of people who wanted rid of Ole, said it was on the basis that he didn't have a modern style of play to implement. If Ten Hag had played on the counter all season to improve results, would you be happy then?
Ratcliffe seemed quite deliberate in calling ETH the coach, not manager. He will no longer be tasked with bringing players in. Nor should he be. He will soon, it seems, be working under a competent set of people who will be responsible for rebuilding the squad. Whether he gets the chance to stay and show what he can do in those circumstances depends a bit on the next couple of months and to some extent, how many of the fans he's lost in the meantime.
That said, it has been terrible at times. And everything gets even more difficult when the players and fans start to lose faith that the manager is capable. If there was an obvious candidate to bring in in the summer then I think most of us would be quite happy to do that. But, as someone else said above, you never know what can happen. Even a Southgate or Potter could come in and be a roaring success. Or ETH could turn it around like Sir Alex did. Or the next flavour of the month could flop badly.
Trying to twist everything to be the managers fault because you've decided he must go, helps nobody except our opponents.
Whenever I see comments like this (knowing better than the bookies) I say the same thing. You must be a multi millionaire....?Seriously?
That is easy money.
Had the same conversation a few weeks ago someone telling me it was likely we'd get 23 points from the last 10 games. (2 points from 3 games since).
Yeah exactly.
Its not like we need to improve in midfield at all. The postion that we seem to let teams just walk through us on the pitch.
Who is them here?
This idea that Ten Hag is playing some kind of progressive, modern style for the benefit of club's future, even risking his own job while doing so is so incredibly naive. We don't need a "defensive manager" to bring out more out of the current bunch of players. Just because Ten Hag can't do it it doesn't mean it takes a defensive manager.
When it comes to football in particular I don’t completely agree. Bookies odds are influenced by bets. Bets are influenced by fan sentiment , particularly if there are more fans betting on their team.
Quite often , United and Liverpool odds are skewered by over optimist or overly pessimistic sentiment. Put simply, if loads of United fans bet on United (regardless of our chances) the odds of us winning can go down. In betfair and the likes , people betting against other people is probably a more accurate reflection then bookies.
On Betfair exchange there is not a huge difference between the teams. I’d expect that to change closer to when the team lineups are announced. If our lineup actually looks strong, I’d expect our fans to probably have an optimistic boost and throw money on United which could push United up to slight favourites.
I don’t believe Bournmouth are favourites for today in any objective sense because United games/results have been so erratic. Betting on United games have been stupid. I say that as somebody who’s betted on our games and kept an eye on game odds even when I wasn’tbetting.
If I expand into politics, Joe Biden was 2/1 , Trump over evens , in a two horse race at one stage. Michelle O Bama was lower odds than actual candidates. Sentiment can drive odds.
Sorry for rambling, wasn’t having a go, just when it comes to betting, in my experience, sentiment can be a significant driver in odds, particularly in close bets.
According to SPORT1, Nagelsmann has ‘received an offer’ to take the helm at an unnamed Premier League club from the start of next season
https://www.teamtalk.com/manchester...offer-premier-league-man-utd-ten-hag-pressure
https://www.teamtalk.com/manchester...offer-premier-league-man-utd-ten-hag-pressure
It's driven by money and people don't intentially throw away their hard earned money based on the information they have.
2.44 Bournemouth vs 2.84 (current Betfair) isn't that close. The markets have cottoned on to the fact that conceding 30 shots per game isn't ideal for winning football matches.
We might well win but based on how we've been playing recently the odds aren't surprising at all. It just makes me laugh that people think they know better, (and one game won't prove that they do - before any I told you so's later on).
Last few games with ETH in charge. Let’s put him out of his misery and move on. Let him try his process elsewhere but they haven’t worked here.
Maybe he is doing ok; LaLiga is not PL, the only competition is Real Madrid and most of the season Barça was below Girona.
Fati, Pedri and Gavi started when they were pipsqueeks too.
Joke of a post.
So how, please tell me, does he go and play a high line with Maguire and Lindelof in the team. Or keep possesion with McTominay, AWB and Rashford in the team?
Our squad, or at least the players who aren't injured all the time, are better suited to sitting back and countering. Don't you agree?
OR you can reward Amad who scored a screamer against Liverpool in the cup game, and give HIM a proper chance against a team he can and should be good against.
If Erik doesnt play Kambwala, Amad, and Mount in this game then he is a coward to me. Simple as that! Ten Hag has all kinds of excuses for the season with injuries but where we are today - not benching Bruno for Mount, not playing Amad at least 30 minutes (even if he starts Antony) is unacceptable. And he kindof has to start Kambwala because everybody else is injured
How, out of interest? We've dropped more points in games than we've won. I mean, we might win at a canter today. But our form doesn't suggest that.Seriously?
That is easy money.
But Bournemouth are still worse than us, and we are clearly favourites to win today. If betting quotas suggest otherwise, they are probably driven by pessimistic United fans or by bookies preying on people's will to make money on an underdog.
To be clear, I do not want to suggest anyone should be betting money on this football game neither will I myself. But as said above, we are favourites to beat Bournemouth, even in our current state.
I did ask, yes, and thanks for answering my question. I actually was not aware. My reaction was not meant to be snippy at you, I just think it is a bit ridiculous.
But we aren't.
A sudden influx of United fans wanting to throw their money away on Bournemouth
Nonsense.According to who, though? Bournemouth are in better form than us over the last 5 games and beat us 3 nil in the reverse fixture. We've also lost an historic amount of PL games and the general mood surrounding the club is very shite - there's been well reported talk of ten Hag getting the boot. It's not that shocking that the bookies have Bournemouth as favourites to be honest.
2nd in La Liga, 8 points behind Real Madrid which given Barcelonas financial state i'd say is really pretty good. They're also favourites to reach the CL Semi's after beating PSG away. All with a very young squad, Yamal (16), Cubarsi (17), Gavi (19), Balde (20) and Pedri (21) all have over 900mins in La Liga. He's certainly doing ok.
As of three weeks ago, he was doing poorly. And as I pointed out, doing well with
young players at Barça is nothing unusual. Gavi and Pedri broke through years ago.
I think the pressure here would eat him alive and it is extremely unlikely he would take this job given the state of the squad and the club.
Yeh heaven forbid we help our opponents by getting rid of managers when they've so clearly failed.
Thank god for the cult of manager folks keeping us competitive all this time, in the face of all the idiots who think losing 20 times in a season and negative gd, 4 points and negative gd in the CL group stage, is unacceptable.
Yeah that's about the level of reply I expected.Yeh heaven forbid we help our opponents by getting rid of managers when they've so clearly failed.
Thank god for the cult of manager folks keeping us competitive all this time, in the face of all the idiots who think losing 20 times in a season, and negative goal difference in all comps, is unacceptable.
Three weeks ago they were 3rd. Now they're 2nd, nothing really has changed much. Pressure on Barcelona/Madrid Managers is huge, not sure why you'd think he'd face more pressure here, our fan base is timid as feck. Barcelona have a mini crisis when they lose a few games, we could conceivably lose 20 games this season and we still have people wanting to keep Ten Hag on here.
The structure just wasnt there for me to do any better.
3rd with Barça is terrible. Anyway it‘s a baseless discussion; he won‘t come here as it is a bad fit.
Okay
Like I said, you've clearly made up your mind and everything is ETH's fault, so no point I guess.
Didnt they beat us 3-0 at OT in December? I wouldnt be so confident we will beat them easily.
Agreed. We can't keep a failing manager because we may appoint another one who doesn't work out.
However, in a hypothetical scenario, I would keep him over those two.