Bruno went to a Suarez's look alike contest, lost to Suarez's father and brother, and the haters scream there you go he lost again.Wtf?
8
Season Average Rating
- Appearances
- 45
- Goals
- 15
- Assists
- 11
- Yellow cards
- 11
Yet you get some would get rid, then moan when his replacement doesn't deliver the same figures.
Ladies and gentlemen: The problem.
100%. It's Bruno derangement syndrome. Some people just lose all perspective when his name is mentioned.It's just fecking madness.
From us being 2-1 down Bruno scores 2, including an absolute belter, and then makes a great assist for another goal and you get people in here either going yeah hmmm yeah but he doesn't do it every single game does he or even more stupidly saying hmm yeah but apart from the 2 goals and assist what else did he do?
Trying to argue Pogba was better for Utd than Bruno
It's weird the way some Utd fans seem to really dislike Bruno. He's an insanely creative and talented player stuck in a fecking dreadful side.
Agree to overall point, that the amount of criticism (celebration as well though) is often only somewhat connected to the actual performance. But I think, your example isn't really great. I mean, a match isn't just the number of certain events. For everything we were good yesterday, it was also connected with the opponent, who decided to mostly sit back. Bournemouth was way more courageous and had a go at us. This obviously influences a game and some stats have to be seen in context. Which, admittedly is also often lacking, when the critics bring up his pass percentage which almost never really brings the actual point at home: that he had many games where he lost the ball mindlessly and in dangerous areas. It is never against him taking risks.
I haven't had the opportunity to fact-check it, but I saw a tweet yesterday which claims that Bruno is the midfielder (wingers not included) with the most goals+assists in the top 5 leagues since the beginning of 2020. Wild if true!
He’s definitely had bad games this season. I wouldn’t deny that. But the Bournemouth game stuck in my head as one where he didn’t play badly, individually, but got absolutely crucified because the team as a whole was so bad. It happens all the time. He’s our number one scapegoat this season. That game stuck in my head because I remember thinking he played ok and @justsomebloke was patiently sharing a load of stats to prove he played ok, yet the howling mob were having none of it and it went down in caf history as one of his “many” stinkers this season. And that’s just one example. I’m sure there are loads of others.
Nobody is denying he’s had bad games this season. The huge difference between us and other, more succesful, clubs is that the likes of Odegaard, Maddison or KdB can have a few off games which fly completely below the radar because they have team mates who will step up and ensure that they can win games when they don't contribute. And players basically avoid criticism as part of a winning team, especially if they win comfortably (which we never fecking do) Conversely, if Bruno has a bad day we've zero chance of winning and he is guaranteed to be dragged over the coals by the fans (especially the most prolific posters in this particular thread) All of which creates an atmosphere which gives the impression that he is a much worse player, having a much worse season, than his peers at other clubs. Despite basically no objective evidence to back that up.
Utd should break the bank for Brahim Diaz. He will be overshadowed by the new Galacticos, and would be a great running mate for Bruno
Yeah fair enough, I wouldn't disagree with any of that.
I would also agree, that to a degree he became a bit of a scapegoat for some. But that also comes with the captaincy and his status as a really good player. What I can tell you about myself and maybe other posters share that notion, is, that for me, he is one of the symbols and surely one of the biggest of the last years for our failure at most aspects. Despite him having very good individual the team is going downhill and it seems like we are trailing so much. And part of that is that we never really modernized our way of playing, maybe (MAYBE!!!!) because managers thought we wouldn't have to because we had the talents of Rashford and Bruno. Those two (unfortunately for them as individuals) embody many of the issues (vibes FC, individual brilliance, directness at all costs, no control, not thinking ahead, putting players in positions that they arent suited to, valueing result more than performance) that plagued the club (to various degrees).
Obviously that isn't really their fault, but I guess that is how symbols sometimes work. They become it even against their will.
@Jeppers7 I actually agree with you on Pogba - if Pogba had better players around him he would have achieved a lot more for us. That is on Manchester United and their structure of recruitment and their management. You can't blame Paul Pogba or Bruno Fernandes for the problems at Man Utd. At times the two carried us in a Bryan-Robson esque manner, and I think Pogba created a silly amount of chances in his best seasons. I think it's as simple as we haven't had good enough options up front - or at the back - to capitalise on two world class chance creators. Perhaps that's over simplifying, and that in a properly structured system you could never accommodate either, but then we aren't and weren't owned by a mafia state like Chelsea were or an entirely self governing peer state like Manchester City.
No worries mate; it was my initial mistake.
I'm just happy that he's playing well now. The season isn't really dead either - yes the PL situation has been mauled by our diabolical results (it is no exaggeration to say we've been in relegation form at multiple points throughout the campaign), but winning football matches still matters. Lifting the mood and picking up some form ahead of a cup final still matters. We've all seen what it looks like when United throw in the towel completely at the back end of the season and the effect it has isn't pretty.
It's quite strange that it needs explaining that Bruno is one of our best players, and the thinking that he needs replacing immediately is truly bizarre. But unfortunately a vocal section of the fanbase seem to judge him by a completely different standard to any other footballer on the planet.
You make the point on Rashford. I think most would accept that he is a big game player. He just happens to have also been terrible for a year. Bruno can match him for big game contributions and also get us over the line against 'lesser' teams and he gets called a stat padder.
Messi is actually the opposite of Bruno. He's regularly delivered vs the best teams in Spain and Barcelona's main rivals.There isn’t a player on the planet who doesn’t pad their stats against weaker opposition. You think Messi and Ronaldo scored the majority of their goals against top sides?
You think van Nistelrooy scored the majority of his goals against Liverpool, Arsenal and Chelsea?
I’m sure you thought you were making a good point here, but you’ve just ended up looking a bit daft.
Top 5 favourite opponents to score against:
Sevilla - 43 games, 38 goals
Atlético - 43 games, 32 goals
Valencia - 36 games, 31 goals
Athletic - 41 games, 29 goals
Real - 47 games - 26 goals
Top 5 favourite opponents to assist against:
Sevilla - 43 games, 20 assists
Levante - 23 games, 20 assists
Getafe - 27 games, 15 assists
Real - 47 games, 14 assists
Espanyol - 35 games, 14 assists
Ronaldo hasn't been quite as good as Messi, but the big teams feature a lot also:
Top 5 favourite opponents to score against:
Sevilla - 18 games, 27 goals
Atlético - 37 games, 25 goals
Getafe - 14 games, 23 goals
Barcelona - 34 games, 20 goals
Celta - 13 games, 20 goals
Top 5 favourite opponents to assist against:
Espanyol - 16 games, 10 asissts
Atlético - 37 games, 9 assists
Málaga - 19 games, 9 assists
Levante - 14 games, 8 assists
Athletic - 18 games, 8 assists
Bruno's are generally vs poor teams outside of Villa and Atalanta.
Top 5 favourite opponents to score against:
Aston Villa - 10 games, 7 goals
Leeds - 6 games, 6 goals
Everton - 11 games, 5 goals
Rio Ave - 7 games, 5 goals
Feirense - 6 games, 5 goals
Bruno's top 5 favourite opponents to assist against:
Portimonense - 6 games, 9 assists
Leicester - 8 games, 4 assists
Atalanta - 9 games, 4 assists
Wolves - 8 games, 4 assists
Bournemouth - 5 games, 3 assists
6 of Bruno's 15 goals this season have been penalties.
9 of Ødegaard's 11 goals are from open play. He scored both penalties he took. He'd be a potential 20 goals a season player if he took penalties. 15 from open play last season.
21 of Foden's 22 goals are from open play. 1 free kick.
10 off Bernardo's 11 goals are from open play. 1 free kick.
9 of Cole Palmer's 25 goals this season are penalties. 16 goals from open play, which is more than Bruno's entire goals tally.
All 4 of Maddison's goals this season have been from open play. Bruno has proven he's better than Maddison. Although only 2 of his 47 PL career goals are penalties tbf. 19 of Bruno's 54 PL goals are from the penalty spot.
The Pogba thing is a little more complicated in that he was signed as someone who could help give us some midfield dominance and create/score chances. Which is, obviously, a big ask but very much the rhetoric when we signed him (from the manager and the player himself) It was the fact he so often failed at all the midfield grunt work that was a problem for the club. He also wasn't capable of playing in the tight spaces right behind the attackers, as we saw on multiple occasions so playing him in the Bruno role really wasn't an option. Bruno gets a load of shit for needing too much space and time to operate effectively and being poor with his back to goal but compared to Pogba he's at a different level entirely in the final third. Plus they're both liable to have their pockets picked by making a poor decision, or taking too long to release the ball but the consequences are much more serious when you play most of the game as close to our goal as Pogba did.
Anyway, Pogba's gone. Ran down his contract to leave on a free after being constantly injured for the last two seasons and subsequently got done for doping. So feck that guy. I'm sure I probably was a bit too harsh on him during his time at United (he was a very frustrating player) but nowhere near as harsh or unfair as the shit Buno has been getting,. The difference in quality between the players the two of them were playing alongside is night and day, with our squad getting worse and worse over the course of Bruno's United career. It really is a miracle he's managed the numbers he has this season.
I mean, do it by ratio at least man
https://www.messivsronaldo.app/all-time-stats/favourite-opponents/
Minimum 10 games, and unsurprisingly, Messi top 5 teams are:
Eibar
Vallecano
Deportivo
La Coruna
Mallorca
I mean you’re arguing against simple logic here man, all players tend to do better against lesser opposition.
Presume you are a huge Rashford fan ?
Will you stop. You're literally using data in a way that suits your narrative. You got proven wrong.I mean, do it by ratio at least man
https://www.messivsronaldo.app/all-time-stats/favourite-opponents/
Minimum 10 games, and unsurprisingly, Messi top 5 teams are:
Eibar
Vallecano
Deportivo
La Coruna
Mallorca
I mean you’re arguing against simple logic here man, all players tend to do better against lesser opposition.
That's not to say without him we would create even less. Point is you'd replace him with someone else and we would play differently. Just like for ex when RVN was our main goalscorer and we let him go. We just played different and more players scored.
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Whatever you think of Bruno that's a great teammate there.
Nah, he needs to go. 2 very poor years out of 3. No Rangnick to blame this time either. Not that I did anyway. At least that narrative can now die.
I don't really like any of our players tbh. The squad is full of losers and players who have been here too long.
Dalot, Mainoo, and Eriksen are guys I don't mind.
While I don't rate Maguire or McTominay particularly highly, they've at least shown good mental strength. ten Hag wanted to get rid of both, yet both have saved his bacon multiple times this season. Credit to them.
Pot, meet kettle
Surely you understand his point? Messi’s record against teams that bounce between the bottom of the first and the top of the Spanish second division can’t possibly match that against teams he plays against every single season, with added cup/CL matches. Goals per game is the only way to do a fair comparison.
It’s also the least surprising data ever. Shock horror, it’s easier to score against bad teams than good ones. Feck knows why anyone needed to dig up data to prove this to you.
I think he's sour and looking for a reaction due to the facts that he was presented with. You agree with him, which is fine. You're the biggest Bruno defender on the site. I wouldn't expect anything different.
The facts are that they are the teams Messi scores most against. No matter how many emojis in the world someone uses.
I'll leave you two gentlemen to it. ten Hag related threads are bad enough. No need to waste energy on Bruno Fernandes.
What on earth do I have to be sour about? I simply said that players all across the planet score and do better against weaker opponents. That’s just simple logic.
It's also a fact that Messi has never scored against Stoke. So he must be shite. Or maybe context actually matters?
You really don’t. You just need to look at the performance threads and accept that in the main, game to game they give an accurate reflection of performance.You have to be a seriously good spin doctor if you're going to convince a reasonable person that it's worthwhile to compare Bruno to Pogba
I'm sure that Pogba isn't that far behind if you only compare G/A per 90 and remove penalties (and possibly cups), but that's irrelevant when he became seriously injury prone at the relatively young age of 26. Pogba was seriously clumsy too. He conceded multiple penalties in spectacular fashion, costing us several points. Meanwhile, Bruno gets 3 pages worth of slander in here if he creates a regular freekick 20 yards out.
You have to be a seriously good spin doctor to ignore the large amount of goals Bruno has cost United in big moments costing us big points and shots at CL etc with brainless repeated mistakes.
You know you can count up to 31 with five fingers, right?
I honestly don't believe Bruno is the problem or even a problem. Our style of play this season is. Bruno giving the ball away isn't an issue when you play a system where you try to maintain possession and have players in position to pick up any lost balls. The match against Sheffield is the perfect example. He actually gave the ball away quite a few times but due to a different style we never really noticed, but instead he could focus on being as creative as possible and we ended up winning comfortably with him as a clear motm.
We need a new system.
Cavani, Ibra and Lukaku…you know that none of those were here at the same time? But it gets worse…
Cavani….signed AFTER Bruno
Lukaku…Was a terrible signing. First season from oct to May scored 8 league goals in 26 games. Second season…did the the same!
Young Rashford who was 22 when Bruno signed
and had his best ever season LAST SEASON.Young Martial who was 24 when Bruno signed
Greenwood who had played about 300 minutes BEFORE Bruno signed
Ibrahimovic who scored 17 league goals in 2539 mins v Ronaldo 18 in 2459?
This is the make up of the playing squad that Pogba joined…
Back four made up of…
Eric Bailly 24 apps
Phil Jones 18 apps
Rojo 18 apps
Smalling 13 apps
Blind 21 apps
Valencia 28 apps
Darmian 18
This is horrific
Midfield
Herrera 27
Mikhi 14
Fellaini 18
Mata 19
Rooney 15
Carrick 18
Lingard 18
Mata 18
This is a mismatch of players from different managers who don’t fit together at all and two of them are past it
Forwards
Rashford 16
Zlatan 27
Martial 18
A 19 year old and a 21 year old and the manager liked neither. Zlatan had one season same as Ronaldo.
Pre Bruno we added
Lukaku
Matic
Lindelof
Sanchez
Fred
Dalot
I mean I’ve seen you write some utter bollocks but this is ridiculous.
Greenwood, Martial, Rashford are all players Bruno has played with regularly. For Zlatan read Ronaldo.
In addition while Pogba had Valencia, Young, Rojo, Darmian, Smalling, Lindelof, Bailly and Jones behind him…Bruno has had to suffer with AWB, Shaw, Varane, Martinez, Maguire, behind him and had Mainoo and Casemiro next to him this season. Not Fellaini and Herrera.
His performance levels are a problem. This month has been great. Prior to that shocking.
He has some shocking performances this season but I am of the firm believe the system is to blame more than individual players.
He was shocking in Ole/Ragnick season also and I didn’t think he was great last season. That being said I don’t for one minute suggest that it’s all on any individual. But on the flip side. One great performance doesn’t make you player of the season.
fairCould "The biggest Bruno defender on the site" which you throw out as an insult translate to "biggest Bruno fan"? Because this is a United fans forum and Bruno has been consistently our best player since his arrival. I don't think it's the huge crime you think it is for a United fan to be a fan of our best player.
Shocking? Seriously? Give over. Bruno may have had dips in form but has been overall our best player for as long as he has been here. Even when he hasn't played well, I can usually overlook it as he has earned the right to have some off days.
People are so quick to criticize Bruno but fail to realize how fecked we would be without him.
To read some of the drivel on here you'd think Bruno was having a dire season. 26 goal contributions in what has been, let's face it, an abysmal season for the team is amazing. Still my favorite player at the club.
That's not how we do things on the caf. We shit on our players after a couple of bad performances, then after they've put in a few good performances, we remind everyone of their bad performances a few months ago.
Language-wise, it’s fine. Vague as feck, though, and typifies your inexplicable broad brush-stroke anti-Bruno agenda. I could not disagree more, by the way. I am an admirer and a supporter of Fernandes.
Thanks for the info. Couldn't care less whether you agree or disagree and who you admire and support as long as you walk around throwing bs accusations around.
Legitimate standpoint but our football this season, as dull as it is, hasn't been around for the last 4 or 5 years. And during all this time, as a team we didn't do well. That has many reasons, no question about it. But Brunos skillset and/in combination how he is supposed to play are one of it. And yesterday, we weren't all of a sudden better at defending, it was the opponent who didn't really have a go at us. Doesn't mean, he didn't have a good game, he really did. But some of the conclusion don't really add up. At least they don't to me.
Completely disagree. He was shocking that season and has been really poor this season…up until this month. Ronaldo was miles better than him the season under Ragnick, Rashford, Martinez, Casemiro, Shaw, Varane we’re better than him last season and this season Garnacho, Dalot, Mainoo have been better even with this last month considered as pre that was just poor.
Then he has a good game and suddenly he’s been our best player since he came. The narrative being that I agree with but the reality I don’t agree with.
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The problem, eh? Goes back to when he asked to be subbed against Liverpool. Never willing to do it for us when it's difficult.