2019/20 Rivals - Spurs | Bergwijn out for the remainder of the season

tomaldinho1

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Even with no further additions, I think Spurs still have enough quality and continuity to be favorites for 3rd this season.

The bigger problem is really the future. Fast forward to next summer and you've potentially got the following: Both starting CBs leaving in Alderweireld and Vertonghen, the main creative attacking midfielder leaving in Eriksen, Lloris now 33 and needing replacement, Rose and Sissoko both 30 and going into the last year on their contracts, and quite likely still a big hole at RB. That is a lot of problems to address simultaneously.

A far sighted club would definitely put a couple of the longer term solutions into place this summer (ie, Lo Celso and Sessegnon).
I think this is the reason for Poch's statement because whilst he wouldn't have had silly expectations of suddenly having £200m to spend, he will definitely have expected more transfer activity than he's had because he can see this team is coming to the end of it's cycle.

Spurs have been excellent for the last few years because of a core group of top players who were brought in as lesser knowns (for example Alderweireld was a known entity but on loan at Soton, Vertonghen and Eriksen were bought for peanuts from Ajax, Lloris from Lyon, Dembele from Fulham, Son from Leverkuzen) who then grew into the impressive starting XI they currently have. Kudos to the scouting department and Poch for improving them because some of those players have been there since ~2012.

There are many older players coming toward the ends of contracts and a key player in Eriksen wanting out, where's the longer term planning for next year. Poch isn't unrealistic, he won't look at City and complain he doesn't have their spending power but he will look at teams like Wolves, Everton, Aston Villa, Leicester and West Ham and think he should have a lot more spending power than them.
 

Powderfinger

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I think this is the reason for Poch's statement because whilst he wouldn't have had silly expectations of suddenly having £200m to spend, he will definitely have expected more transfer activity than he's had because he can see this team is coming to the end of it's cycle.

Spurs have been excellent for the last few years because of a core group of top players who were brought in as lesser knowns (for example Alderweireld was a known entity but on loan at Soton, Vertonghen and Eriksen were bought for peanuts from Ajax, Lloris from Lyon, Dembele from Fulham, Son from Leverkuzen) who then grew into the impressive starting XI they currently have. Kudos to the scouting department and Poch for improving them because some of those players have been there since ~2012.

There are many older players coming toward the ends of contracts and a key player in Eriksen wanting out, where's the longer term planning for next year. Poch isn't unrealistic, he won't look at City and complain he doesn't have their spending power but he will look at teams like Wolves, Everton, Aston Villa, Leicester and West Ham and think he should have a lot more spending power than them.
Exactly. The team is reaching the end of its cycle and will need to be rebuilt. But you don't want to do it all at once.
 

SilentWitness

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Feels like every season you say that they need to win a trophy but it's at that point now where it's pivotal for them. Most of their first XI is getting to the point where they're either fed up ala Alderweireld/Eriksen/Rose and would be open to moves or is aging - Lloris/Alderweireld/Vertonghen/Sissoko etc. They really need to bolster their squad too since they've been getting rid of a bunch or they're going to have the same problem as last year when they were far too light in certain areas which meant their league campaign was shocking.
 

Irwin99

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Any chance they get Bale on loan? Would be a pretty formidable attack if they did.

Expect them to get top 4 but probably won’t get anywhere near City by the seasons end.
 

LilyWhiteSpur

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Feels like every season you say that they need to win a trophy but it's at that point now where it's pivotal for them. Most of their first XI is getting to the point where they're either fed up ala Alderweireld/Eriksen/Rose and would be open to moves or is aging - Lloris/Alderweireld/Vertonghen/Sissoko etc. They really need to bolster their squad too since they've been getting rid of a bunch or they're going to have the same problem as last year when they were far too light in certain areas which meant their league campaign was shocking.
Wait so it’s this season? This one where we fall apart? Just so I’m sure?
 

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Pochettino should leave Spurs, the club doesn’t match his ambition. It is like Messi playing for Burnley. When you have similiar expenditures to that of Everton, Southampton and Leceister rather than the top four, he should start questioning about his future and why he should continue at Spurs.



:rolleyes:
Pochettino should not be happy. He took a team with no investment to champions league finals and a top four place. Spurs should back him like Liverpool did with Klopp when he went to the finals, but so far it seems like they are not. Spurs should look at getting lo Celso while keeping Eriksen. Moreover a fullback and an auxiliary striker if they want to remain competitive. Moreover, keep Alderweireld as well.
 

SilentWitness

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Wait so it’s this season? This one where we fall apart? Just so I’m sure?
Didn't say you were going to fall apart but it's now or never for a few of your first team players who are understandably disgruntled. You can't keep being a nearly club or you'll fall away.
 

LilyWhiteSpur

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Are all Tottenham fans deliberately obtuse and argumentative when it comes to their club?
I’m not argumentative, I’m asking who in your opinion is disgrutedled? I wasn’t being obtuse, simply asking who in your opinion is? Toby is wants to go on a free and Eriksen wants a move to an elite club, how does that make them disgruntled, that’s only 2? No need to be patronising. When you post something you are going to get responses...
 

SquishyMcSquish

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Wait so it’s this season? This one where we fall apart? Just so I’m sure?

Nobody thinks we're going to fall apart. But it's very unlikely that next season is suddenly going to be the one where we push on or do something, that's all i think @SilentWitness is saying.

We had our opportunity and 'golden generation' so to speak, but a lot of those key players are ageing or looking to move (eriksen, toby, vertonghen, lloris etc) and we're not making moves to prepare for that, not enough anyhow. Shit we lost Dembele and it took us an entire year to find a replacement in the market and now we're apparently meant to bow at the Levy shrine because he made one single signing. The way things look right now we're not progressing as a squad, we're just slowly allowing others to catch up, which in the league they gradually have been.

And yeah, if we do continue with this approach then eventually we will exit the top four, we were fecking close last season. You can't keep staying up there whilst investing less than mid-table or newly promoted clubs season after season, and that's exactly what we do. Pochettino won't be around to perform miracles permanently, we need to see a real shift in attitude from the club where spending negative money or in a good window about 30m net (which is what we've spent thus far) and that's considered fine.

Trippier leaving is just another example of the approach from the club. Hope Pochettino can scrabble about and find a youth player to fill the hole, we had the same approach to Dembele leaving. It's a small club attitude to fixing issues.
 

Schmeichel's Cartwheel

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Very good team with a very weak heart. Unless big changes come mentally, they will never get a premier league title.

I say "never" as in meaning the forseable future. Obviously I have no idea how long football will exist. Unless they get a Man City style take over and buy the title, I think they will be waiting a very very long time.

We will win the league again before they do, even in our current state, I am certain of this.
 

LilyWhiteSpur

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Nobody thinks we're going to fall apart. But it's very unlikely that next season is suddenly going to be the one where we push on or do something, that's all i think @SilentWitness is saying.

We had our opportunity and 'golden generation' so to speak, but a lot of those key players are ageing or looking to move (eriksen, toby, vertonghen, lloris etc) and we're not making moves to prepare for that, not enough anyhow. Shit we lost Dembele and it took us an entire year to find a replacement in the market and now we're apparently meant to bow at the Levy shrine because he made one single signing. The way things look right now we're not progressing as a squad, we're just slowly allowing others to catch up, which in the league they gradually have been.

And yeah, if we do continue with this approach then eventually we will exit the top four, we were fecking close last season. You can't keep staying up there whilst investing less than mid-table or newly promoted clubs season after season, and that's exactly what we do. Pochettino won't be around to perform miracles permanently, we need to see a real shift in attitude from the club where spending negative money or in a good window about 30m net (which is what we've spent thus far) and that's considered fine.

Trippier leaving is just another example of the approach from the club. Hope Pochettino can scrabble about and find a youth player to fill the hole, we had the same approach to Dembele leaving. It's a small club attitude to fixing issues.
Dembele was a burst balloon, Trippier had issues behind the scenes and wanted out. If we did indeed have a golden generation why didn’t we win anything? It’s bullshit putting us on the same level as any of the top 5 sides at this stage.

It’s the same old shit “buy into the media bullsit of spending”. Unless it improves us it’s pointless. I’ve said many times Poch sold us his *plan* if he decides he wants an elite club, il shake his hand and pat his bum on the way out the door. We aren’t at the same table as United, City, Liverpool or Chelsea. Either accept it or maybe choose another club. When we get to the stage of entitled fans il lose my shit.
 

SilentWitness

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I’m not argumentative, I’m asking who in your opinion is disgrutedled? I wasn’t being obtuse, simply asking who in your opinion is? Toby is wants to go on a free and Eriksen wants a move to an elite club, how does that make them disgruntled, that’s only 2? No need to be patronising. When you post something you are going to get responses...
I'm just used to Glaston and it felt Glaston-y in vibe, sorry. But yeah. Toby and Eriksen mainly but that's bad enough, even if it is two as Eriksen will leave a massive hold in your midfield.

I'd also say Rose too. Aye he's not undisputed first choice but it'd be silly if you let both him and Trippier go in the same window without much investment or further planning.

I'd also say in regards to why you didn't win anything - you didn't capatalise on your golden generation. You should have spent last summer/invested better instead of buying duds like Janssen. @SquishyMcSquish put across most of my other thoughts on the matter.
 

SilentWitness

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My view is that I'll reserve judgement until the window shuts - right now I'm worried though.
I agree, but I think you're right to be. Maybe it's because I'm not a Spurs fan but most of what I've seen rumour wise this season has been around United/Everton/Arsenal/Villa rumours. Spurs front seems a bit...dead.
 

LilyWhiteSpur

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I'm just used to Glaston and it felt Glaston-y in vibe, sorry. But yeah. Toby and Eriksen mainly but that's bad enough, even if it is two as Eriksen will leave a massive hold in your midfield.

I'd also say Rose too. Aye he's not undisputed first choice but it'd be silly if you let both him and Trippier go in the same window without much investment or further planning.

I'd also say in regards to why you didn't win anything - you didn't capatalise on your golden generation. You should have spent last summer/invested better instead of buying duds like Janssen. @SquishyMcSquish put across most of my other thoughts on the matter.
Janssen was bought 2 seasons ago, it’s not like every other club in the top 5 have improved, it’s just people soaking up the media sponge, sucking on it and bathing in it, it’s all bullshit. We have signed a player who is highly rated and now cause it’s 3 weeks later it’s forgottten, and the masses just want more. I find it hilarious how the media have grown men salivating on every tit bit they sell.
 

SquishyMcSquish

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Dembele was a burst balloon, Trippier had issues behind the scenes and wanted out. If we did indeed have a golden generation why didn’t we win anything? It’s bullshit putting us on the same level as any of the top 5 sides at this stage.

It’s the same old shit “but into the media bullsit of spending”. Unless it improves us it’s pointless. I’ve said many times Poch sold us his *plan* if he decides he wants an elite club, il shake his hand and pat his bum on the way out the door. We aren’t at the same table as United, City, Liverpool it Chelsea. Either accept it or maybe choose another club.
He was also a key midfielder in our team for a long time and as he declined/left we did nothing to prepare for that. If a player has issues and wants out then you plan for that and replace him.

Also holy shit, I honestly can't believe the negativity of this attitude. We're not a big club, media bullshit of spending (what? Every fecking club spends to improve it's not a media creation!) and we should just accept the best manager we've ever had walking out the door rather than standing up to our board who are utterly shit in the transfer market and show no ambition. I'd keep Pochettino over ENIC every day of the week,

It's not even a question of competing with the other top 5, our spending is below most mid-table premier league clubs. Of course going out and signing a proper new right back would replace us instead of shoehorning a CB there, it's ridiculous to call that spending for the sake of it, just like it was ridiculous when people said it because fans wanted a Dembele replacement. This isn't even talking about adding to the squad (which ambitious teams do!), it's literally just replacing players in the team.
 

LilyWhiteSpur

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He was also a key midfielder in our team for a long time and as he declined/left we did nothing to prepare for that. If a player has issues and wants out then you plan for that and replace him.

Also holy shit, I honestly can't believe the negativity of this attitude. We're not a big club, media bullshit of spending (what? Every fecking club spends to improve it's not a media creation!) and we should just accept the best manager we've ever had walking out the door rather than standing up to our board who are utterly shit in the transfer market and show no ambition. I'd keep Pochettino over ENIC every day of the week,

It's not even a question of competing with the other top 5, our spending is below most mid-table premier league clubs. Of course going out and signing a proper new right back would replace us instead of shoehorning a CB there, it's ridiculous to call that spending for the sake of it, just like it was ridiculous when people said it because fans wanted a Dembele replacement. This isn't even talking about adding to the squad (which ambitious teams do!), it's literally just replacing players in the team.
Ummm infrastructure costs money.... mate we had this argument last summer, and I’m not about to do it again on non Spurs forum :lol:. You knock urself out.
 

SilentWitness

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Janssen was bought 2 seasons ago, it’s not like every other club in the top 5 have improved, it’s just people soaking up the media sponge, sucking on it and bathing in it, it’s all bullshit. We have signed a player who is highly rated and now cause it’s 3 weeks later it’s forgottten, and the masses just want more. I find it hilarious how the media have grown men salivating on every tit bit they sell.
He was bought at a time when you needed to capitalise on your form and the talent you had at your disposal.

You need more than one midfielder.

Are rumours gonna improve a team?
Have Everton bought a goal scorer yet?
Silence is what happened with you last summer and you bought nobody. Similar theme this summer where there isn't much to say on the transfer rumour front. Rumours don't improve a team but they're generally a sign that there will be a few transfers. Little to none of it would be a bit concerning for me.

Currently in the process of purchasing one.
 

SquishyMcSquish

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Janssen was bought 2 seasons ago, it’s not like every other club in the top 5 have improved, it’s just people soaking up the media sponge, sucking on it and bathing in it, it’s all bullshit. We have signed a player who is highly rated and now cause it’s 3 weeks later it’s forgottten, and the masses just want more. I find it hilarious how the media have grown men salivating on every tit bit they sell.
This is such horseshit and you must know that.

We signed ONE player who was highly rated and you expect the fanbase to be jumping for joy about that? We've needed a cm for years, it's hardly hallelujah time that the board actually decided to go out and do something about Dembele leaving the club. Our spending thus far this window is about 30 mill net, that's far less than we received purely in prize money for reaching the CL final for god sake.

We finished a solitary point ahead of fifth last season and this is the investment Pochettino gets in order to improve the team? It's total shit so far.
 

LilyWhiteSpur

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He was bought at a time when you needed to capitalise on your form and the talent you had at your disposal.

You need more than one midfielder.




Silence is what happened with you last summer and you bought nobody. Similar theme this summer where there isn't much to say on the transfer rumour front. Rumours don't improve a team but they're generally a sign that there will be a few transfers. Little to none of it would be a bit concerning for me.

Currently in the process of purchasing one.
We have signed Ndombele?
 

LilyWhiteSpur

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This is such horseshit and you must know that.

We signed ONE player who was highly rated and you expect the fanbase to be jumping for joy about that? We've needed a cm for years, it's hardly hallelujah time that the board actually decided to go out and do something about Dembele leaving the club. Our spending thus far this window is about 30 mill net, that's far less than we received purely in prize money for reaching the CL final for god sake.

We finished a solitary point ahead of fifth last season and this is the investment Pochettino gets in order to improve the team? It's total shit so far.
I’m not jumping for joy? Who said I was? I’m just not throwing my rattle at my mum yet. We need more inagree, but we have probably done the best business in the window so far, what kisses me off is, if we do make other signing you will simply just say feck all about your outburst, you were exactly the same last year. We also made it to a EURO final, but you chose to omit that, I simply don’t get you. Maybe we should bring sugar back?
 

SilentWitness

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We have signed Ndombele?
................hence why i said there isn't much to say...little to none. Similar theme but not the same and "You need more than one midfielder". If you think your squad is okay with just Ndombele then great, I'm excited to see you finish 5th again.
 

SquishyMcSquish

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Ummm infrastructure costs money.... mate we had this argument last summer, and I’m not about to do it again on non Spurs forum :lol:. You knock urself out.
Do you not think it's going to cost the club more money in the long term if we drop out of the top four? Getting back in after you fall out is far harder than staying in there, as other clubs like Arsenal have shown. And we won't invest nearly enough to make up the gap if it forms.

We were a solitary point away from that happening last season, we got fecking lucky that Arsenal drew to Brighton on final day. If we continue with this complacency we will eventually drop out, we've been gradually dropping down the league for a little while now and that trend will continue the more we're comfortable with the squad slowly deteriorating. Yes, we had a fantastic cup run, but the bread & butter and most reliable way to judge a side is via the league and we had our worst campaign in years there.
 

LilyWhiteSpur

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................hence why i said there isn't much to say...little to none. Similar theme but not the same and "You need more than one midfielder". If you think your squad is okay with just Ndombele then great, I'm excited to see you finish 5th again.
Little to none? Really? One of the highest rated young players in Europe? Who else in the PL has strengthened so much more?
 

LilyWhiteSpur

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Do you not think it's going to cost the club more money in the long term if we drop out of the top four? Getting back in after you fall out is far harder than staying in there, as other clubs like Arsenal have shown. And we won't invest nearly enough to make up the gap if it forms.

We were a solitary point away from that happening last season, we got fecking lucky that Arsenal drew to Brighton on final day. If we continue with this complacency we will eventually drop out, we've been gradually dropping down the league for a little while now and that trend will continue the more we're comfortable with the squad slowly deteriorating. Yes, we had a fantastic cup run, but the bread & butter and most reliable way to judge a side is via the league and we had our worst campaign in years there.
Like I said I want more signings, but quality ones. I’m not going get into a slobbering ramble over it mate.
 

SquishyMcSquish

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I’m not jumping for joy? Who said I was? I’m just not throwing my rattle at my mum yet. We need more inagree, but we have probably done the best business in the window so far, what kisses me off is, if we do make other signing you will simply just say feck all about your outburst, you were exactly the same last year. We also made it to a EURO final, but you chose to omit that, I simply don’t get you. Maybe we should bring sugar back?
You implied that the fanbase shouldn't complain and should be happy with just the Ndombele signing, even though it was one which was massively overdue anyway. A new cm should have been signed last year.

And no, I won't say feck all. If we go out and bring in a couple more first team players I'll hold my hands up about it.

I was pretty much dead on last year. I said we'd face a serious top 4 battle because of our lack of spending, and guess what? We did. We had a fantastic cup run but the league campaign was fecking dodgy and we almost totally collapsed towards the end and allowed Chelsea above us and can thank our lucky stars Arsenal were inept. Maybe you can ignore that but I can't.

And I can both have my issues with ENIC and not want an inept owner like Sugar back, that's stupid logic. ENIC have done great things for the club but I'm also clear in my view that I don't believe they're prepared to take us to the next level and back Pochettino in the market to the point where we can regularly compete for trophies. You obviously feel differently about them and that's fine, but the way I see it they're happy tarting the club up with a new stadium, shiny facilities etc but when it comes to squad investment they have fallen seriously short.
 

SilentWitness

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Little to none? Really? One of the highest rated young players in Europe? Who else in the PL has strengthened so much more?
City?
Liverpool planned and don't need to strengthen much more.
Chelsea have a big squad to utilise but they're a bit weaker than last season so you could compete with them.
Arsenal and United rumour mill signifies for me that they're just waiting on a few things to sign players but at least they seem 80% over the line with a couple and you can see them happening.

Yes, little to none. Your problem is that you need numbers. Great, Ndombele is quality but what if he gets injured? What if other players in the squad get injured? As i said before, last season your issue was the squad depth, it was terrible and it's because you didn't transfer well. It would be stupid to make the same mistake this year.
 

LilyWhiteSpur

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You implied that the fanbase shouldn't complain and should be happy with just the Ndombele signing, even though it was one which was massively overdue anyway. A new cm should have been signed last year.

And no, I won't say feck all. If we go out and bring in a couple more first team players I'll hold my hands up about it.

I was pretty much dead on last year. I said we'd face a serious top 4 battle because of our lack of spending, and guess what? We did. We had a fantastic cup run but the league campaign was fecking dodgy and we almost totally collapsed towards the end and allowed Chelsea above us and can thank our lucky stars Arsenal were inept. Maybe you can ignore that but I can't.

And I can both have my issues with ENIC and not want an inept owner like Sugar back, that's stupid logic. ENIC have done great things for the club but I'm also clear in my view that I don't believe they're prepared to take us to the next level and back Pochettino in the market to the point where we can regularly compete for trophies. You obviously feel differently about them and that's fine, but the way I see it they're happy tarting the club up with a new stadium, shiny facilities etc but when it comes to squad investment they have fallen seriously short.
Where did i say the fan base would be ok? I’m just saying from my view I’m not gonna fly a banner over the stadium. You not happy with ENIC fair enough, be careful what you wish for, we aren’t an elite club.
 

LilyWhiteSpur

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City?
Liverpool planned and don't need to strengthen much more.
Chelsea have a big squad to utilise but they're a bit weaker than last season so you could compete with them.
Arsenal and United rumour mill signifies for me that they're just waiting on a few things to sign players but at least they seem 80% over the line with a couple and you can see them happening.

Yes, little to none. Your problem is that you need numbers. Great, Ndombele is quality but what if he gets injured? What if other players in the squad get injured? As i said before, last season your issue was the squad depth, it was terrible and it's because you didn't transfer well. It would be stupid to make the same mistake this year.
Jesus *if he gets injured*.... *if your granny had balls she would be your gran daddy*. Don’t hit me with transfer bullshit till it happens. Also Chelsea have Frank as manager.... that should be fun.

Arsenal have signed a Pepe who I admit could be good but he has one good season behind him and the Real lad who is just a season long loan. Don’t buy into the media noodle soup.
 

SilentWitness

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Jesus *if he gets injured*.... *if your granny had balls she would be your gran daddy*. Don’t hit me with transfer bullshit till it happens. Also Chelsea have Frank as manager.... that should be fun.

Arsenal have signed a Pepe who I admit could be good but he has one good season behind him and the Real lad who is just a season long loan. Don’t buy into the media noodle soup.
You're weird.
 

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Little to none? Really? One of the highest rated young players in Europe? Who else in the PL has strengthened so much more?
City.
Liverpool didn't need signings and were far above us last season - they spent a record amount so they're good.
Chelsea have a transfer ban and still signed the same amount of players for the first team.
Arsenal are about to announce the 72m signing of Nicolas Pepe, secured a top rated cb for the future, brought in Ceballos on loan and look set to also bring in Tierney.
Manchester United brought in one of the biggest rb talents in England, a young wide player, and look set to secure Dybala. Even if they don't get them I'll be shocked if they don't bring in at least one more like Fernandes.

So basically right now it looks like 3 of our rivals strengthened more. One of the other two has a ban and the other spent getting on for 200m last season.

Not to mention, we spent no money at all last season on the team so of course we should be expected to be more active in this window than others.
 

SquishyMcSquish

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Arsenal have signed a Pepe who I admit could be good but he has one good season behind him and the Real lad who is just a season long loan. Don’t buy into the media noodle soup.
He was good the season before .. he has basically the same amount of good seasons behind him as Ndombele. Who cares if it's just a season long loan? He still improves them next year and that's what we should be concerned about considering they were a point behind us.
 

SilentWitness

ShoelessWitness
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Nice rebuttal. I don’t see what I have said that is wierd.
It's pointless discussing as you aren't going to realise why it's important to strengthen your squad and are content with believing that we are all brainwashed by 'noodle soup'.
 

GlastonSpur

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I agree with what you are saying, and if it were just random poster on the Caf and/or a Spurs site getting worked up, that would be one thing. However, Pochettino (provided the quotes are all accurate,) seems to be harbouring/fostering the same doubts. And when a manager starts doing Mourinho karaoke, the omens aren't good (just ask us - we went through the real thing last pre-season.) The cynic in me wonders if Poch isn't getting his excuses in early, so he might make himself available for future vacancies, should Spurs underwhelm this season and the likes of Real or United come calling.
I think Pochettino's comments are being misinterpreted. I believe his main gripe is at the media for asking the same old questions that he's answered many times before … and of course his comments also help him to duck any questions about incomings and outgoings, because it's not in the club's interest to make comment on these or speculate publicly about them.

He said "Sell, buy players, sign contract, not sign contract – I think it is not in my hands, it’s in the club’s hands and [chairman] Daniel Levy."

This is simply stating what has always been the case (and is the case at every club). Pochettino is part of a three-man committee that decides on transfer targets and sales, but once decided, the actual business of negotiating signings and sales - and new contracts - is Levy's responsibility.

We get the same old stuff every summer - Pochettino is preparing to leave, Pochettino is unhappy etc etc. But it never amounts to a hill of beans.