There're some seriously disgusting human beings in the Republican party.
2020 US Elections | Biden certified as President | Dems control Congress
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None of these people can stop the process on the 6th. Its all just kissing Trump's ring so that he doesn't criticize them to his supporters, which will in turn make it nearly impossible for them to get reelected. Once he leaves office, I suspect his grip will gradually dissipate over time.
I think public sentiment reflects your own view. The public smashed the voting record just to get Trump out of office.
Let's not forget that the public also smashed the voting record to keep Trump in office. Trump has the second highest popular vote in history. I definitely would not take this election as some kind of rejection of Trumpian politics. Unless the Democrats take both seats in Georgia, which they probably won't, I could see Biden failing to accomplish much of anything, leading to the return of the GOP in 2024. It's dangerous for us to consider 2020 a turning point for American politics.
True - but among the high turn out for Trump would also have been a lot of begrudging voters who were voting GOP over Trump. If it seems like the GOP is overrun by Trumpian nutjobs, these voters may start to look elsewhere, and a moderate Democratic party under Biden could be an option. Despite their loud voices, there are probably as many Romney style Republican voters than Trump's.
Add to that the general shrinking Republican demographic trends, and the fear of a return of a Trump style presidency held by many, I think there's still reason to be somewhat hopeful, especially if the Dems flip Georgia in the runoff.
It was just that - a rejection of Trumpian politics. The fact that Trump got a lot of votes on the right only reflects the degree of bifurcation of the political system. When you win the popular vote by 7m votes, that is significant and shows how dangerous a majority of the public thought a 2nd Trump term would be.
There won't be a real turning point in American politics as long as they continue with the two-party system.
Unfortunately, the US political system is designed to keep politicians in check from making any significant progress by way of constantly looking congressional elections each two years. If you try to implement policies that are easily demagogued and vilified by the opposition, then you're likely to moderate your position to avoid losing your job and allowing the opposition to take over in the next cycle.
Wasn't the political system bifurcated 4 years ago? Trump still got many millions more votes than he did then. I get that you're happy about the return of centrism in American politics, but a "we won! Trumpism has been rejected!" attitude might turn to tears in 4 years when the pattern repeats itself. Hopefully it will be 12 years, but it might very well be 4.
I think that's a very optimistic assumption. At the very least Republican politicians themselves don't seem to think it's true, judging by how easily Trump came to dominate the party. Any opposition to him either started licking his boots, was primaried from the right, or else is pretty much about to retire. Even if you're correct, which I certainly hope for the sake of the US, it's going to take a while for the GOP to reorganize itself away from Trumpism. So many of the new Republican politicians are deeply into Trumpism, and in some cases into even more insane stuff like Qanon.
We've been drifting to this point for a generation or so, but the rise and continued entrenchment of social media and foreign influence operations (such as the Russians) is only really coming home to roost over the past couple of cycles. Network homophily has finally started to grip US politics, which will probably result in the end of this current guise of the Republican party and continued challenges to the Dem orthdoxy from the left.
I'd say I was enjoying the show from Norway, and it is definitely intriguing, but unfortunately what happens in the US affects the rest of the world. Luckily we've been spared the worst so far. The party furthest to the right of mainstream Norwegian politics recently expelled a local politician who was pretty much directly copying the worst of Trumpism, right down to claiming that the election was stolen and pointing to "all the evidence from Sidney Powell". It wouldn't surprise me one bit to hear he followed QAnon.
It's a good thing that he was expelled, but this is the guy the local party members in Norway's capital decided was the best choice to lead them in the first place. It's worrying.
It's a good thing that he was expelled, but this is the guy the local party members in Norway's capital decided was the best choice to lead them in the first place. It's worrying.
The GOP is fecked from here on for many years - and it's a self-inflicted wound they gave themselves by embracing Trump.
Demographics are against them, but more important is the internal split and infighting that is already occurring - and will become more magnified - between Trumpites and moderates. Deeply divided parties don't win many elections.
And if the Trumpite wing prevails, and especially if Trump becomes their Presidential candidate for 2024, the GOP becomes even more fecked, because the general public have already shown their majority distaste for Trumpism. They are not going to vote in anywhere close to sufficient numbers for an even more senile and demented version of the last 4 years.
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It’s very worrying. I know it’s a small sample size, but looking at online comments on, for instance, Norwegian news articles on FB is SCARY. There are a lot of nutters here too.
There are a lot of nutters from either sides or many sides as in any countries.
Not sure why people are surprised by that. Trump has a lot of supporters. A lot of people don't like him as well.
Of course it is messy at times but isn't it how they keep the balance though at the end of the day?
Not sure why people are surprised by that. Trump has a lot of supporters. A lot of people don't like him as well.
Of course it is messy at times but isn't it how they keep the balance though at the end of the day?
This is not remotely a "both sides" thing. The American right is undeniably more authoritarian, conspiratorial and violent than the American left. Not sure what your last sentence is even supposed to mean, given we today heard recordings of a phone call where the President is trying to coerce/threaten a state official to "find more votes".
I agree that the American right atm is pretty worrisome. But, imo though it goes in circles, I think the left will gain some ground in a couple of circle again. etc.
The last sentence was in general that people seem to be amazed how much Trump was getting the votes while ignoring that more votes were against him in the last election. Which sort of fixed the problem from the 2016 election.
Or even some of the left leaning countries have some right wing nutters. There will always be both sides or many sides. Which in terms maintain/check the balance. Not perfect but in a way.
P.S I am not saying nutters maintain it.
Don't do it, it's the Hope that kills (except when she infects the White House.)
Polls continue to say Warnock, a black centre-leftist, is doing better than Ossoff, a white centrist, in Georgia; I cannot believe that. Polls said the same about 2 races in Florida in 2018, both Dems lost, the white ex-Republican did better. Opposite of the polls.
e - maybe Kelly Loeffler is a bit more hated than Perdue?
e - maybe Kelly Loeffler is a bit more hated than Perdue?
Still think the GOP will pull this off.
I don't have then energy for that, I think Nov 3rd aged me a decade or 3.
So will you be pulling another all-nighter for this?
Seriously though, we are unfortunately dealing with a COVID in the house situation right now which really sucks. I ranted on it in the Trump thread yesterday. GA is not really that important to me a the moment.
Its probably down to just that - Perdue has a lengthy history in GA, whereas Loeffler is a transplant who was appointed. Plus she's already operating at a deficit because she's a woman. Warnock and Ossoff's own relatability with their Dem audiences are obviously also factors.
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Not sure how you see the left gaining serious ground. First, it'd be the normal left gaining ground, against the insane right. That's not a great balance. But more importantly, the US electoral system in various ways helps the right. For example, mall midwestern states that lean heavily GOP get two senators, just like California. That imbalance plays in various ways and affects seat divisions in the Senate and House (also through gerrymandering, which is largely a GOP thing), presidential elections, and the make-up of the SC. I don't see how that's balanced out anywhere.
Again, I am not sure what balance or fix you are talking about, if the votes are fairly close when Americans get to choose between a crazy incompetent like Trump and competent centrists like Clinton and Biden. If there's a middle between those sides, it's very much in (moderate) GOP territory. For a balance there, you'd need someone like Sanders on the Democratic ticket.
Of course. Completely understandable man.
Was gutted to read your posts yesterday. Cannot imagine your frustration, and wish the best for your Wife and parents.
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I don't know if it had been posted but here is the transcript of Trump with Raffensperger (and others) trying to force him to find 12K votes to overturn georgia elections. they told him over and over that they couldn't find anything of his claims. Among other things Trump said
Trump: Because what’s the difference between winning the election by two votes and winning it by half a million votes. I think I probably did win it by half a million. You know, one of the things that happened, Brad, is we have other people coming in now from Alabama and from South Carolina and from other states, and they’re saying it’s impossible for you to have lost Georgia. We won. You know in Alabama, we set a record, got the highest vote ever. In Georgia, we set a record with a massive amount of votes. And they say it’s not possible to have lost Georgia.
And I could tell you by our rallies. I could tell you by the rally I’m having on Monday night, the place, they already have lines of people standing out front waiting. It’s just not possible to have lost Georgia. It’s not possible. When I heard it was close, I said there’s no way. But they dropped a lot of votes in there late at night. You know that, Brad. And that’s what we are working on very, very stringently. But regardless of those votes, with all of it being said, we lost by essentially 11,000 votes, and we have many more votes already calculated and certified, too.
And so I just don’t know, you know, Mark, I don’t know what’s the purpose. I won’t give Dominion a pass because we found too many bad things. But we don’t need Dominion or anything else. We have won this election in Georgia based on all of this. And there’s nothing wrong with saying that, Brad. You know, I mean, having the correct — the people of Georgia are angry. And these numbers are going to be repeated on Monday night. Along with others that we’re going to have by that time, which are much more substantial even. And the people of Georgia are angry, the people of the country are angry. And there’s nothing wrong with saying that, you know, that you’ve recalculated. Because the 2,236 in absentee ballots. I mean, they’re all exact numbers that were done by accounting firms, law firms, etc. And even if you cut ’em in half, cut ’em in half and cut ’em in half again, it’s more votes than we need.
https://webcache.googleusercontent....68e0cc-4ddd-11eb-83e3-322644d82356_story.html
Trump: Because what’s the difference between winning the election by two votes and winning it by half a million votes. I think I probably did win it by half a million. You know, one of the things that happened, Brad, is we have other people coming in now from Alabama and from South Carolina and from other states, and they’re saying it’s impossible for you to have lost Georgia. We won. You know in Alabama, we set a record, got the highest vote ever. In Georgia, we set a record with a massive amount of votes. And they say it’s not possible to have lost Georgia.
And I could tell you by our rallies. I could tell you by the rally I’m having on Monday night, the place, they already have lines of people standing out front waiting. It’s just not possible to have lost Georgia. It’s not possible. When I heard it was close, I said there’s no way. But they dropped a lot of votes in there late at night. You know that, Brad. And that’s what we are working on very, very stringently. But regardless of those votes, with all of it being said, we lost by essentially 11,000 votes, and we have many more votes already calculated and certified, too.
And so I just don’t know, you know, Mark, I don’t know what’s the purpose. I won’t give Dominion a pass because we found too many bad things. But we don’t need Dominion or anything else. We have won this election in Georgia based on all of this. And there’s nothing wrong with saying that, Brad. You know, I mean, having the correct — the people of Georgia are angry. And these numbers are going to be repeated on Monday night. Along with others that we’re going to have by that time, which are much more substantial even. And the people of Georgia are angry, the people of the country are angry. And there’s nothing wrong with saying that, you know, that you’ve recalculated. Because the 2,236 in absentee ballots. I mean, they’re all exact numbers that were done by accounting firms, law firms, etc. And even if you cut ’em in half, cut ’em in half and cut ’em in half again, it’s more votes than we need.
https://webcache.googleusercontent....68e0cc-4ddd-11eb-83e3-322644d82356_story.html
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Brad or Boris?
I read that on the AJC's website this morning. There were some other bits that were "shocking" as well.
Watching the GA voting manager try and be political when discussing Trump is awesome. He is so angry right now.
I think the reactions of these GA state republicans to all of this sum up where they feel the Senate races are at: sheer fear.
It baffles me how Lindsey hasn't been brought up on charges yet? Or how an investigation hasn't been started. If it has then I must have missed it. But surely he has broken the law too?
It's insane how nobody in the GOP seems to get punished, yet they will investigate Hillary and get her to give evidence in 9 different enquiries on some bullshit charges, and that's not even mentioning her emails appearances.
Georgia Voting System Implementation Manager debunks claims of voter fraud made by President Trump
That will always be the worlds most fantastic beard.
@Eboue could do with reading this
i read it now what
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