2020 US Elections | Biden certified as President | Dems control Congress

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Not at all. No other Dem candidate would’ve been competitive against Trump this cycle.

But the reasons you thought would make him competitive haven't entirely transpired, have they? Which also leaves open the possibility that the things you thought other candidates wouldn't be competitive on might have been mistaken too. Your model of America seems different to the reality - as many other experts' from various fields has been, as far as I can tell. Or are you still of the position that you judged how this election would go accurately, and assessed Biden's quality appropriately?
 
If millions of people happily eat shit, it doesn't matter if you offer them steak instead of a loaf of bread. This is about Trump, very little democrats could've done something different in terms of campaigning.

They could have done much more but didn't. When you go into an election you are meant to show them a vision of something to hope for. Dems didn't, and again, saying he is not Trump' isn't that. What's after then? You can comfortably discredit Trump and propose plans at the same time. Focusing only on Trump feeds his narrative.

Also just discrediting him makes it a clear us Vs them scenario. Yes people should know Trump is a moron but basically constantly insulting his voters/people who were better off under him isn't going to get you their vote. If anything, it makes them double down
 
Nah that post is nonsense. No matter what democrats say it can't be responsible for the actions of others. Conservatives are responsible for their own actions and no amount of democratic self flagellation will ever change that.
My post was not directed solely to any one political way of thinking; it just so happened, in this case, that the poster was expressing an anti trump view. The same applies in reverse.
 
Well yeah, the narrower the easier to be right. but they were wrong for months. like the polls. like everybody. So no, the bookies are not rarely wrong in politics
No, no - they are rarely wrong. I didn’t say never wrong.
 
There are still huge numbers of votes to be counted. CNN said 1.4 million in PA and they just showed that there are hundreds of thousands still to come in and around Detroit.

Biden can still win MI and WI and is probably still favourite to win GA and PA. If he brings those back around those 4 and gets to 300+ votes then the polls and predictions weren't far off. Everyone predicted that these votes were going to take time to count and that Trump was going to throw shit at the walls - why are people rushing to lose their shit over exactly that happening?
 
Where are you getting that? No one is reporting GA at 99%. They can’t be, Fulton county stopped counting hours ago and went home for the night.
How can states justify this? They cant have this play out over a few days can they?
 
There are still huge numbers of votes to be counted. CNN said 1.4 million in PA and they just showed that there are hundreds of thousands still to come in and around Detroit.

Biden can still win MI and WI and is probably still favourite to win GA and PA. If he brings those back around those 4 and gets to 300+ votes then the polls and predictions weren't far off. Everyone predicted that these votes were going to take time to count and that Trump was going to throw shit at the walls - why are people rushing to lose their shit over exactly that happening?

Stop it
 
There's a lot of talk about Georgia and Pennsylvania on here. Why not North Carolina? That seems closer than PA and if Biden wins Nevada, GA and NC he's got 275. Is it due to the types of votes left to be counted in NC?
I did a quick back of the envelope calculation for the remaining counties, assuming the margin holds up (which is imprecise by default) and Biden falls anywhere between 10-20k votes short. In NC you can receive and count ballots up to a week after E-Day assuming it was post marked before the election, and there is also the report of about 117k absentee ballots that were held up in the post office (again, we don’t know if a) they were included in the official count or b) how many were invalidated because the person choose to vote in person after hearing about the issue).

It’s not official lost, but the math is daunting and even in the best scenario will lead to a lot of litigations.
 
Knew that would be a waste of time staying up for.

Expect chaos now as the republicans try to discount the postal votes like the banana republic they've become.
 
I am no expert in American politics but I have followed it closely for nearly 8 years now. Most of the pundits and experts I listened to never made the case for Dems trying to flip Texas and to a lesser extent Florida. Texas was always considered a state that would naturally flip on it own in future cycles. Biden barely campaigned or spent money there. I also never heard Dems make much noise about Florida. The places I know the Dems put a lot of effort were the rustbelt and midwest states.
The debate has been about whether the Dems need/needed to go more in person campaigning. Dems only started knocking on doors recently and I have been reading for months that some were worried.
On the wider note about ideology, half of America is lost forever. The idea a more left leaving candidate would have done better makes a mockery of reality.
Its time Americans accept that they simply are a shithole country. I am not sure how much better any other candidate would have done.

Good post and agreed.
 
My post was not directed solely to any one political way of thinking; it just so happened, in this case, that the poster was expressing an anti trump view. The same applies in reverse.
I honestly don't think so. There is no amount of nice things republicans could say to me to make 250k dead Americans ok, and I literally don't give a flying feck about the bad things they say about me. They can go feck their sisters, for all I care.
 
It doesn't really. The blame in this instance is still the person who decides to act like a fool, not the person who said the thing on the internet.
Mate, you’re not understanding me. I care not about who is to ‘blame’. In fact, I don’t disagree at all. Of course the idiot voting for Trump is solely to blame for their decision to do so; HOWEVER, putting ‘blame’ aside for a moment and looking dispassionately at what’s going on, if we want to actually stop people voting for that flog, ridiculous statements like the one I replied to are counter productive.
 
There are still huge numbers of votes to be counted. CNN said 1.4 million in PA and they just showed that there are hundreds of thousands still to come in and around Detroit.

Biden can still win MI and WI and is probably still favourite to win GA and PA. If he brings those back around those 4 and gets to 300+ votes then the polls and predictions weren't far off. Everyone predicted that these votes were going to take time to count and that Trump was going to throw shit at the walls - why are people rushing to lose their shit over exactly that happening?

Biden has a slim chance. But favorite to win?
 
There are still huge numbers of votes to be counted. CNN said 1.4 million in PA and they just showed that there are hundreds of thousands still to come in and around Detroit.

Biden can still win MI and WI and is probably still favourite to win GA and PA. If he brings those back around those 4 and gets to 300+ votes then the polls and predictions weren't far off. Everyone predicted that these votes were going to take time to count and that Trump was going to throw shit at the walls - why are people rushing to lose their shit over exactly that happening?

The margin in PA is huge. 670k votes, with 1.4M left to be counted. Biden needs 75% of those. He’s not winning PA or WI and MI is a toss up. He’s fecked and we are fecked. Trump will win.

America is fecking disgusting. Can’t believe I live here.
 
They could have done much more but didn't. When you go into an election you are meant to show them a vision of something to hope for. Dems didn't, and again, saying he is not Trump' isn't that. What's after then? You can comfortably discredit Trump and propose plans at the same time. Focusing only on Trump feeds his narrative.

Also just discrediting him makes it a clear us Vs them scenario. Yes people should know Trump is a moron but basically constantly insulting his voters/people who were better off under him isn't going to get you their vote. If anything, it makes them double down

This makes sense. Clear vision, clearly different to Trump's, emphasis on why his vision is bad and why your vision is good. It's not complicated. Reminds me of when Labour thought they'd "won the economic argument in 2017" so basically stopped talking about it in 2019 and then lost to a landslide because the Conservatives said "hurrr, we good at economic, Labour bad money bonfire people".
 
There are still huge numbers of votes to be counted. CNN said 1.4 million in PA and they just showed that there are hundreds of thousands still to come in and around Detroit.

Biden can still win MI and WI and is probably still favourite to win GA and PA. If he brings those back around those 4 and gets to 300+ votes then the polls and predictions weren't far off. Everyone predicted that these votes were going to take time to count and that Trump was going to throw shit at the walls - why are people rushing to lose their shit over exactly that happening?
I think the vast majority thought this would be a walk in the park for Biden and to win by a landslide.

Bernie picked this and I think the dems did as well hence Biden’s response this evening.
 
But the reasons you thought would make him competitive haven't entirely transpired, have they? Which also leaves open the possibility that the things you thought other candidates wouldn't be competitive on might have been mistaken too. Your model of America seems different to the reality - as many other experts' from various fields has been, as far as I can tell. Or are you still of the position that you judged how this election would go accurately, and assessed Biden's quality appropriately?
I thought Biden was an underwhelming candidate and rooted for Bernie in the primaries. But he got beat. He could not even convince the Democrats. And the other candidates did worse than him. Is there any evidence or logic to the idea that someone else might have done better?

Look at the results. In most places, Biden is doing better than Hillary did four years ago. Democratic voters turned out in huge numbers for him. Where are those significant amounts of potential extra voters hiding? There's not much more in it. Yes, the system is weird enough that even an extra couple of percentage might have resulted in a comfortable victory. But where is that unifying candidate who would have squeezed out every single potential vote of the American people? I don't think there was one.
 
Trump has seemingly increased his support across every demographic EXCEPT for white males, which tells me that the centrist unity candidate didn't do a very good job of appealing to those people.

Serious questions need to be asked of the Democratic establishment. It seems they haven't learned a thing from 2016 and if they do win the election, it will have been inspite of them rather than because of them. As Stobzilla said, it should have been like shooting fish in a barrell considering just how poorly the Republicans have handled Covid and the various other cardinal sins Trump has made during his tenure. It's simply indefensible to have this election be in the balance.

If they were worried about Bernie being a lame candidate, he surely would have been better than the halfway to senile Biden. He also would have attracted the youth vote and fought fire with fire on the populist pitch. Hell, Trump has succeeded in framing Biden as a Communist, so argument number one to not having Bernie on the ticket has been made redundant.

Trump has delivered all the best arguments against him for free. Nothing a democrat could've said should or would have been more convincing to vote blue than the things that have actually happened. We're not living in the age of facts anymore. If the recent history hasn't convinced those people to not vote Trump, nothing would have. Starting to think all this needs to implode before it gets better. Those that voted him really need to suffer from him as well in order to wake up. Not sure that will happen though. And the other groups seemingly don't really matter to the system. The US is held in a strangle hold.

Maybe the democratic majority of the country in California, NY etc. should distribute themselves across the states before the next election in order to win the states and then after 2024 get rid of the Electoral College for goo.d
 
I did a quick back of the envelope calculation for the remaining counties, assuming the margin holds up (which is imprecise by default) and Biden falls anywhere between 10-20k votes short. In NC you can receive and count ballots up to a week after E-Day assuming it was post marked before the election, and there is also the report of about 117k absentee ballots that were held up in the post office (again, we don’t know if a) they were included in the official count or b) how many were invalidated because the person choose to vote in person after hearing about the issue).

It’s not official lost, but the math is daunting and even in the best scenario will lead to a lot of litigations.
let's hope you back of the envelope calculation used Essien's calculator.
 
They could have done much more but didn't. When you go into an election you are meant to show them a vision of something to hope for. Dems didn't, and again, saying he is not Trump' isn't that. What's after then? You can comfortably discredit Trump and propose plans at the same time. Focusing only on Trump feeds his narrative.

Also just discrediting him makes it a clear us Vs them scenario. Yes people should know Trump is a moron but basically constantly insulting his voters/people who were better off under him isn't going to get you their vote. If anything, it makes them double down

I don't believe a plan or a vision would've made a difference for people who are willing to vote for Trump based on what they know about the man now.

I could've bought that argument 4 years ago, but now? I don't. People who voted for Trump would've voted for Trump, vision or no vision on the other side.
 
And it is language like this that contributes to keeping morons like trump in power. Has it not occurred to you that every time a sanctimonious ‘progressive’ belittles a ‘conservative’ (particularly the fence-sitters), that perhaps that might harden their resolve and therefore in part contribute to putting that orange clown in power?
Anyone that voted for Trump is either a racist/sexist/etc and voted for him for those reasons, or they are not racist/sexist/etc directly themselves but have no problem that Trump is. Those are the only two options.

Neither group of people is good people in my opinion. I know that seems very controversial these days.

If someone doesn't see Trump and find reasons to not support him every single fecking day for four years, sees the harm he's doing to millions of people and still decide to hop down from their fence to his side because someone called out those specific things or called them something online, there was no hope anyway.

This isn't a slight difference in opinion on how taxes are spent, or what the military budget should be, it's about supporting one of the worst human beings on the planet.

If you think you can convince someone by being polite or whatever then go for it, I genuinely hope you succeed. But the fact someone even needs to be convinced not to support Trump in my opinion tells me it's a waste of time and that it should not be up to others to be nice and accomodating.
 
I think it's time the entire world cuts off the USA. feck Trump removing the US from Nato, just kick them out. Kick them out the UN and the G8(7)

If Trump does win or cheats his way back in then he has no right to force his bullshit on anyone else in the world.
 
I honestly don't think so. There is no amount of nice things republicans could say to me to make 250k dead Americans ok, and I literally don't give a flying feck about the bad things they say about me. They can go feck their sisters, for all I care.
:lol:

Respectfully, this comment has absolutely nothing to do with you, then. My comment does not apply to rational, educated people. There is a significant minority of largely uneducated voters (at least in the traditional sense of the word ‘educated’) where shit like this actually does factor into their voting decision.
 
There are still huge numbers of votes to be counted. CNN said 1.4 million in PA and they just showed that there are hundreds of thousands still to come in and around Detroit.

Biden can still win MI and WI and is probably still favourite to win GA and PA. If he brings those back around those 4 and gets to 300+ votes then the polls and predictions weren't far off. Everyone predicted that these votes were going to take time to count and that Trump was going to throw shit at the walls - why are people rushing to lose their shit over exactly that happening?

stop dreaming.
 
They could have done much more but didn't. When you go into an election you are meant to show them a vision of something to hope for. Dems didn't, and again, saying he is not Trump' isn't that. What's after then? You can comfortably discredit Trump and propose plans at the same time. Focusing only on Trump feeds his narrative.
But... Trump did not even have a platform in 2020. Biden did have one. A detailed one. You can still look at it. It's full of stuff he wants to do. All about his plans. Go and read it. Watch his town hall; it's an hour of him talking about his vision. It's his opponent who had none except "Keep America great" and "fake news liberal media".
 
Anyone that voted for Trump is either a racist/sexist/etc and voted for him for those reasons, or they are not racist/sexist/etc directly themselves but have no problem that Trump is. Those are the only two options.

Neither group of people is good people in my opinion. I know that seems very controversial these days.

If someone doesn't see Trump and find reasons to not support him every single fecking day for four years, sees the harm he's doing to millions of people and still decide to hop down from their fence to his side because someone called out those specific things or called them something online, there was no hope anyway.

This isn't a slight difference in opinion on how taxes are spent, or what the military budget should be, it's about supporting one of the worst human beings on the planet.

If you think you can convince someone by being polite or whatever then go for it, I genuinely hope you succeed. But the fact someone even needs to be convinced not to support Trump in my opinion tells me it's a waste of time and should not be up to others to be nice and accomodating.

My man.
 
Anyone else concerned about Trump winning over Arizona? He's chipping into Biden's lead at a greater rate than Biden is in Pennsylvania.
 
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