Of course they are, 60 odd games a season at full intensity, no off days, no injuries expect for their cycling off season where they got loads. Scoring 3+ every game without fail and usually blow teams away within 30 mins. It’s abnormal.
63% of Liverpool squad "asthmatic" - any substance to this article?
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Don’t forget mane and Salah are supposed to be fasting currently, seen Manes form especially in the last 2 weeks with Ramadan?
Man’s in the form of his entire life, it’s actually impossible.
This season is almost identical, especially from Pool, I’ve never seen anything like it for a team in this country, the relentless intensity for 90 mins. Only thing that comes close is peps Barca followed by his city team at times.
People have to decide if they're going with the asthma thing or something else. Inhalers won't give you any crazy benefits, it's a tune-up.
Those of you who claim to be identifying doping by sight; intensity of play, lack of injuries, lack of rotation etc., if you're right they it will have to be some proper stuff, and the amount of asthmatics in their squads is irrelevant.
Those of you who claim to be identifying doping by sight; intensity of play, lack of injuries, lack of rotation etc., if you're right they it will have to be some proper stuff, and the amount of asthmatics in their squads is irrelevant.
They just move faster than the testing protocols, which are wildly outdated anyway. On top of that, there many multi-billion pound brands to protect, the clubs themselves and the competitions they play in. Easy to see why articles like this are as close as we’ll ever come to knowing the truth.
This thread should be renamed to copium
I have always believed all the top teams are doping, especially those with connections to Spanish football.
It’s not just inhalers though, is it? triamcinolone is an asthma drug that was used by team sky when they were doping to the eyeballs in cycling - which increases power to weight ratio. There are many asthma drugs that, when used by non sufferers, can increase aerobic performance to god-like levels.
If club doctors are allowed to diagnose players as asthmatic with no mechanism to scrutinise the diagnosis then that opens the door to coping on an industrial scale. This is the issue.
And they both went to African Cup played right to the very endDon’t forget mane and Salah are supposed to be fasting currently, seen Manes form especially in the last 2 weeks with Ramadan?
Man’s in the form of his entire life, it’s actually impossible.
*I think ALL Egypt K.O stage went to extra times and penalties.
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Even in our darkest days of watching saf and united winning everything in site we didn’t resort to blaming the winning on anything but bent refs. It’s getting beyond sad.
If there’d been any substance in the article, they’d probably abuse it.
Very good
What would you do if liverpool were actually found to be doping ? The FA wouldn't want it leaked though as it would damage the "product".
I am well aware that it is unlikely that the entire team is doping. But then again I watched lance armstrong circus for years.
You need to be better informed on PEDs before you speak on them. Both Salbuterol and Clenbuterol, asthma drugs, are very effective masking agents. Hence both being on WADA’s list. It’s assumed if an athlete has either in their system, they are essentially doping with something stronger. That is the significance. There are so many TUEs issued now, it’s just an invitation for top athletes and doctors to engage in doping.
The method of administration matters too. Oral pills for example, or vaporiser masks. Things like clenbuterol are clearly anabolic when used for sustained periods. I can say from experience that when I cycled Clen a few years ago, it was like having three lungs whenever I played football. It just makes you extremely jittery, and long term it’s really shit for your heart.
This is simply not true, in a physically intense setting, specially in cold climate, synthetic adrenaline increase VO2 MAX and recovery time in the bronchi as evident by the studies done, Also years and years of Olympic material show an overwhelming presense of asthma diagnosis among endurance athletes in winter olympics winning gold medals. Sure if the person has asthma they won't push above 100%, but if you are healthy with a dodgy diagnose then you gain a irrefutable benefit, mainly in recovery and prolonged endurance. It's not even an opinion, it's facts.
Its actually relative common in certain sports to develop asthma. Especially in sports requiring the biggest O2 intake, such as cross country skiing fx., the mechanisms are unknown but it’s believed to be caused by the mechanic stress on the airways and drying out the airways. So it’s not that surprisingly that there’s a higher incidence of asthma in Winter Olympics. It’s the same in swimmers.
This is not found in footballers, and I also doubt bronkodilators will actually have much effect on a footballer. The diagnosis of asthma is based on bronkodilators having an effect or not, so on healthy airways you shouldn’t feel an effect really.
In the EPL you play year around in outdoor climate and have 1-2 daily trainings outdoors, and then perform high intensity 02 consuming patterns in very cold settings good chunk of a season. As for the diagnosis you have the classic 12% minimun reversability, but also many get diagnosed at as low as 0% reversability but from an added subjective or objective performance gain after 3 months continuous medication. And everything in between when you factor in random allergy or grass allergy (
not commonly the type of grass used on a pitch) it's easy to get asthma diagnosis among less reputable doctors. FA, Fifa or Uefa should have their own doctors to evaluate the diagnose, but that won't ever happen. I have a sense not many of these are a classic 12% or more reverse in a rested state, but more the subjective or incidental categories or subsets.For the first part I believe footballers to have a fairly low O2 consumption compared to other athletes ie cross country skiers. I also don’t think cold weather disposes you for asthma - from what I’ve read it’s mainly those few sports which requires and extreme ventilation, so footballers shouldn’t have an increased incidence of asthma diagnosis.In the EPL you play year around in outdoor climate and have 1-2 daily trainings outdoors, and then perform high intensity 02 consuming patterns in very cold settings good chunk of a season. As for the diagnosis you have the classic 12% minimun reversability, but also many get diagnosed at as low as 0% reversability but from an added subjective or objective performance gain after 3 months continuous medication. And everything in between when you factor in random allergy or grass allergy (
For the second part it’s true that asthma is a problematic diagnosis in the regard that you don’t have it that we’ll defined and no test can exclude the diagnosis, so you can be diagnoses based on clinical presentation of symptoms, however it’s debatable how much effect the medication will have on healthy lungs and in my opinions it’s neglible. At least when it comes to bronkodilators, but I assume that’s oral administration of prednisolone is not allowed in sports.
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/23559124/
This one in particular is a bit interesting, it's closer to taking all 8 daily doses in one or two go's 4+4 during a 90minute span 800 µg + 800 µg. Seem there are other effects than just lungs and that adrenaline uptake into the blood at supratherapeutical doses of 800, not 200 at a time probably has beneficial systemic effects. The 800 µg lets you allegedly do significantly more quadriceps muscle contractions.
This one in particular is a bit interesting, it's closer to taking all 8 daily doses in one or two go's 4+4 during a 90minute span 800 µg + 800 µg. Seem there are other effects than just lungs and that adrenaline uptake into the blood at supratherapeutical doses of 800, not 200 at a time probably has beneficial systemic effects. The 800 µg lets you allegedly do significantly more quadriceps muscle contractions.
When I think that there is doping in much less watched sports with a lot less money generated, it doesn't compute to me that the highest levels of football are squeaky clean in terms of using "special" cocktails.
Specially when it comes to using substances favoring recovery. The schedules footballers undergo are brutal all season long, those from South America also engage in in long flight.
All that accumulated fatigue plus the mental stress of having to perform week in and week out, I firmly believe footballers use extra help to perform
Specially when it comes to using substances favoring recovery. The schedules footballers undergo are brutal all season long, those from South America also engage in in long flight.
All that accumulated fatigue plus the mental stress of having to perform week in and week out, I firmly believe footballers use extra help to perform
15 players, in the PL, tested positive to banned substances between 2015 and 2020.
At the same time 88 players from England Wales and Scotland tested positive too.
So people still don't believe that these things happen ?
At the same time 88 players from England Wales and Scotland tested positive too.
So people still don't believe that these things happen ?
Didnt consider extra pulmonary effects. Could be a point there. The questions is whether this can be extrapolated to increased performance in footballers or not and whether such high doses are even allowed?
According to that study done using normal dose 200 compared to 800 wich is half the daily dosage allowed out of 1600microgram Salbutamol (max / 24 hour)(Wada) you gained 13.8% muscle performance over placebo during 100% sustained action 72 contractions before fail vs 82 contractions before fail on 800mikrograms, now let's say 63% or whatever in a starting 11 of the players get that gain due to having 'asthma' and given the start stop nature of football the gains during real life situations could be even larger when you factor in interval rest. That's one hell of a collective boost to performance if it holds true.
Those poor 'asthma' sufferers of course can get another legal dose of 800 more at halftime too if they have symptoms of 'asthma' or report being winded and still be within regulation
. Most studies are unfortunately pretty old by today's standards and they compare normal doses of 200microgram, not 800 twice, and even fewer focus on systemic adrenaline effects on large muscle groups. The data are inconclusive and thats why the practice is allowed probably.Well worth noting is that Asthma is around 8% in a normal population and those countries with lots of asthma are at 11% population wise. Some clubs in that article must be very unlucky to have as much as 63% of their players suffering.
What are our guys doing?
smoking weeed???
probably
smoking weeed???
probably
I think I’m gonna start smoking crack before tomorrow night; as a coping mechanism
Are there long term affects of use?According to that study done using normal dose 200 compared to 800 wich is half the daily dosage allowed out of 1600microgram Salbutamol (max / 24 hour)(Wada) you gained 13.8% muscle performance over placebo during 100% sustained action 72 contractions before fail vs 82 contractions before fail on 800mikrograms, now let's say 63% or whatever in a starting 11 of the players get that gain due to having 'asthma' and given the start stop nature of football the gains during real life situations could be even larger when you factor in interval rest. That's one hell of a collective boost to performance if it holds true.
Those poor 'asthma' sufferers of course can get another legal dose of 800 more at halftime too if they have symptoms of 'asthma' or report being winded and still be within regulation
Well worth noting is that Asthma is around 8% in a normal population and those countries with lots of asthma are at 11% population wise. Some clubs in that article must be very unlucky to have as much as 63% of their players suffering.
No long term side effects, the medicine is very old, tried and safe. Millions of asthmatics use it safely, but as they all can tell, if you take too much at the same time of the blue spray, you get very weird sensations in the body due to adrenaline effect, like when you tense up, twitchy and get alert or a bit anxious depending your disposition. That's the adrenaline effect.
Blood passports a la cycling would be fun - although they seem to be navigating that nowadays by starting off on an already inflated base line.
Anyone know what % of our squad is athsmatic? And is having asthma an essential criteria in Liverpool's player recruitment policy
https://www.runnersworld.com/health-injuries/a20826976/the-asthmatic-advantage-at-the-olympics/According to that study done using normal dose 200 compared to 800 wich is half the daily dosage allowed out of 1600microgram Salbutamol (max / 24 hour)(Wada) you gained 13.8% muscle performance over placebo during 100% sustained action 72 contractions before fail vs 82 contractions before fail on 800mikrograms, now let's say 63% or whatever in a starting 11 of the players get that gain due to having 'asthma' and given the start stop nature of football the gains during real life situations could be even larger when you factor in interval rest. That's one hell of a collective boost to performance if it holds true.
Those poor 'asthma' sufferers of course can get another legal dose of 800 more at halftime too if they have symptoms of 'asthma' or report being winded and still be within regulation
Well worth noting is that Asthma is around 8% in a normal population and those countries with lots of asthma are at 11% population wise. Some clubs in that article must be very unlucky to have as much as 63% of their players suffering.
Asthmatic Olympians are twice as likely to win a medal... that alone should show how abused this is. This article tries to defend it but thats a shocking statistic.
Shaw is smashing about 4 takeouts a week.
They’re definitely cycling, what they’re using is the question.. I’ve heard talk of caffeine and certain asthma drugs that would certainly give them a massive edge..
Pep is the same, he brought an entire medical team with him from Barca.. a bit suspicious isn’t it?
I remember watching a Manchester City match once where Bernardo Silva sprinted to every ball for 90 minutes straight.. at the end, the camera showed a close up of him, and he looked like he was on a different planet..
Pep is the same, he brought an entire medical team with him from Barca.. a bit suspicious isn’t it?
I remember watching a Manchester City match once where Bernardo Silva sprinted to every ball for 90 minutes straight.. at the end, the camera showed a close up of him, and he looked like he was on a different planet..
69% of ManUnited squad are "dramatic".
That was City's 2-1 win in 2019
He covered 13.7km
The highest of anyone in the Premier League that season
I think there might be some truth to all the allegations & we will probably never know but this thread should be locked. It makes us look very small time
I said on Redcafe over a decade ago wait until Utd are unsuccessful, even a laughing stock, for a decade and then judge your fans' output like you've been judging us Pool fans.
Welcome to the future.
Ronaldo strictly chicken, fish, salad and some steroids, Bruno's on ketamine, Fred on meth, and the rest on Xanax if I had to guess.
Well at least you can still say this stuff on redcafe as a Liverpool fan, can’t wait for the time when you can’t ala RAWKI said on Redcafe over a decade ago wait until Utd are unsuccessful, even a laughing stock, for a decade and then judge your fans' output like you've been judging us Pool fans.
Welcome to the future.
There's a legitimate conversation to be had about doping in sport and how players are suddenly able to run faster and for longer just by using new ideas when it comes to training, however using it as a stick to beat our rivals who are making us look like muppets is neither the time nor the place, it just looks pathetic.