To be fair, Spurs dominated Juve in both legs. Very unlucky not to go through.
A serious look at Mauricio Pochettino
- Thread starter NotBrendanRodgers honest
- Start date
I like Poch and think he's done an excellent job at Spurs but he absolutely deserves criticism for losing that tie. There is no use of 'dominating' a tie if you don't go fecking through, if Jose sets up to dominate Sevilla next week and we lose you'd be calling for his head!
He was extremely naive in his approach, at 1-0 Spurs held all the cards. Let Juve have the ball, do all the running, make all the plays and pick them on break (like he did vs Liverpool at Wembley when they had 36% possession) but he tried to go for a killer goal which would make sense if your team is objectively superior to the opposition but they are not. Even teams like Madrid, Barcelona, Bayern who are better than 99% of the teams they play display some pragmatism, yesterday they kept the ball so well and let PSG do the chasing and when spaces opened up they went for the kill.
He was extremely naive in his approach, at 1-0 Spurs held all the cards. Let Juve have the ball, do all the running, make all the plays and pick them on break (like he did vs Liverpool at Wembley when they had 36% possession) but he tried to go for a killer goal which would make sense if your team is objectively superior to the opposition but they are not. Even teams like Madrid, Barcelona, Bayern who are better than 99% of the teams they play display some pragmatism, yesterday they kept the ball so well and let PSG do the chasing and when spaces opened up they went for the kill.
Football is played to beat your opponent, outplaying them is a bonus not necessity.
I didn't say they outplayed them.
@Keeps It tidy
But what does Spurs expectations v Utds based on budget mean if its not net spend?
But what does Spurs expectations v Utds based on budget mean if its not net spend?
Yup. Better at the result stuff.
What has that have to do with defensive bollocks and hard ons?
Wage bill
Anti-poch agenda? Are you serious. If anything there's huge love for the man here in this forum.
His point against the post he quoted is valid. The manner of Tottenham going out when they're well in comfortable position into the second half is questionable. That post said that Poch should not be questioned!!!
You follow the CL thread live you would see how Juve got bashed mercilessly while Tottenham got all kind of praise. It's not some out of control issue that change the game, but clearly Allegri made his move while Poch showed his naivety. How is that not questionable for Poch? Game is 90 minutes. How did he get all the praise after the first leg, and now not being questioned when he got undone in match management toward the end?
Yes I was agreeing with you.
Juventus put in a great performance in that 2nd half, attacked with efficiency and defended bravely. They stretched the pitch when attacking which really troubles Tottenahm, and forced Tottenham into crossing the ball for the last 10-15 minutes.
Spurs won the stuff on the ball, but 80%+ of the game is off the ball. Juventus were better off the ball.
Oh we’ve actually arrived at the wage bill part of Spurs failure already? And without Glaston as well! Looking forward to the discussion about their new stadium and training facility.
I don't think you understand what objective facts are. Here's one: Poch and his side lost at home and got kicked out by Juve.
You realize the irony in your post ? We should praise and give excuse for him each time he loses or bottles a game but at the same time slaughter our manager even if he wins. You just summed up the state of Caf in your post.
@Keeps It tidy
I don't think Juves is vastly higher?
edit:
From what I see its Spurs 121.2 m pounds yearly
Juve 124m euros
So well done to the underdogs for going through tonight?
I don't think Juves is vastly higher?
edit:
From what I see its Spurs 121.2 m pounds yearly
Juve 124m euros
So well done to the underdogs for going through tonight?
Even if you say Spurs were better in 2 legs it was just marginally better. It wasn't some how of big domination as it's being portrayed and Juventus winning just on luck..
It’s easy to outplay teams when it doesn’t matter if you lose.
Poch has been found out as he doesn’t have the nous to get through a tie like this after being in a winning position.
That’s the difference between him and a winner.
Poch has been found out as he doesn’t have the nous to get through a tie like this after being in a winning position.
That’s the difference between him and a winner.
I actually starting to think that some believe there's only one way of playing football and that's passing and possessing the ball. Anything else means you get "outplayed" regardless of the result.
Well, every loss is questionable. But some of the scrutiny appears to be agenda-driven. It's as if some people were waiting for Spurs to lose to steam into this thread (and Harry Kane's) to validate their pre-existing convictions. I guess we all do that, but in this case I don't think there is too much of a wider judgement to be made based upon one loss to Juventus.
If, over time, Spurs continue to lose at the arse end of tournaments then the scrutiny has validity. But as I say, I think Spurs are competing over and above where they should already be. I don't think their players - outside of Kane - are what they are cracked up to be. Which for me highlights just how good a job their manager has done.
Exactly! Now imagine what would have happened if Juventus were given the stonewall penalty when Costa got taken down in the first half.
Username fits
Scoring goals wins matches. So having the ball often means you have a better chance of winning.
Poch has been here for 4 years, and they did go out of different tournament in all kind of manners. Not long ago they had West Ham overturned them in the second half in League Cup!
He said nothing wrong.
So if this keeps happening its fine....
Scoring goals doesn't equal having the ball more often than your opponent. Juve proof it tonight.
Tad unfortunate but that’s the story in Europe. Would still take him here immediately if Jose were to depart
And there are several ways to score goals and create chances. Also several teams can possess the ball and look clueless with it and got hit with counters, see us under LVG for example.
Just because you possessed the ball doesn't mean you to deserve the win or you outplayed the opponent, as the opponent could be playing a defensive game deliberately.
Juve is an Italian team. Being defensive and solid is their bread and butter. That's how they reached 2 CL finals in last 3 years.
Thanks, I love a Communism-based pun.
I bet you’re actually quite untidy though.
Ok, will be honest, I was impressed with Spurs for the majority of both games. Went back from 0-2 in Turin, go straight at them in this game. But that was some serious collapse in space of few minutes with zero response after and they had almost half an hour to get back. The lack of response was even more telling. This is also not the first time they did it under Poch.
A very talented manager who still has some serious doubts.
A very talented manager who still has some serious doubts.
You quoted a post which raised valid points and somehow made it into a pro-Mourinho, anti-Poch agenda non-sense.
I don't understand why every subject on this forum has to be eventually intertwined with United, be it players, the manager, type of football. This thread is about Poch and afaik he has been praised a lot for the work he has done at Spurs, why is it okay and justified when he gets praise for doing well in the 1st leg and 1st half of 2nd leg but any criticism meted out for 2nd half performance (which is where they lost the tie) is just agenda driven?
How were they unlucky? Did Juve score illegitmate goals? Did Spurs have goals wrongly ruled out? Yes Spurs should have gone through but it wasn't due to luck that Juventus went through it was due to Spurs' and their managers naivety
If you want to talk about luck though Spurs were lucky not to concede a penalty before any of the scoring even began tonight
Facts.
Spurs did well over the two legs but lost. In the end that’s what matters, that’s what will be remembered.
We can all argue until the cows come home about why they lost, however it doesn’t change the fact that Spurs led 1-0 and only needed to avoid conceding twice to go through. Undoubtedly the manager’s decision making can be questioned in such circumstances.
Alderweireld injury is what decided the tie. Him missing out was a major blow. That would be like us having to play Barcelona without Matic
Juve were without 6-7 players over the two legs, many of them key.
The poster has actively sought to speak about Mourinho on the previous page and has a clear problem with the praise Pochettino receives by comparison with the perceived negativity directed at Mourinho. I think that's pretty clear. Ergo, we're reaching a little in the criticism of Pochettino on the back of this one particular game against a very good side.
dont think hes got anything to do with loosing it today, the tactics was spot on, Juventus scored two goals from two chances created, once was offside in the buildup and the second just not good defending... yeah since people might get on his back for this result, I'll just leave this place. I think he absolutely deserves a chance to lead one of the top clubs which would hypothetically were looking for a manager.
I think if he stays until they finish their new stadium and has more money, the luck can turn to his favour. SO again, dont think that his players let him down should go as his fault today
I think if he stays until they finish their new stadium and has more money, the luck can turn to his favour. SO again, dont think that his players let him down should go as his fault today
I wouldn't say Tottenham have the same strength in depth as them though.
He needs a trophy, any trophy, desperately.
They got a lot of stick for that game and rightly so.
Pochettino has done an excellent job at Spurs. If they were regularly finishing fifth I'd argue he'd have them around about where they should be. That they do better is a testament to his coaching, as well as the brilliance of Harry Kane. In my opinion, anyway.
That doesn't mean I think he's perfect, or better than Mourinho, or infallible. But I don't think Pochettino's merits and credibility as a manager should hinge solely upon winning a trophy - or a loss to a savvy Juventus side. Spurs have no real right to be winning trophies, and I doubt many other managers would do so over there either.
This reminded me of many united games in Europe throughout the early - mid 90s.
Lots of hustle and bustle and domination, but eventually tactically out smarted, and eventually going out. Happened so many times to us, even against Juve.
This one result shouldn’t detract from Poch in his first(maybe, not sure about that) spin in champions league knockouts. He will learn from it if he is a good manager.
but I am happy considering he was being touted as a genius after beating Madrid in a nothing group game. It is a different ball game in knockout stages.
He now has one shot to win a trophy this year in the fa cup or it will be 3 trophyless seasons for him which, given the quality he has in his side, is simply not good enough to be classed as a top tier manager.
Lots of hustle and bustle and domination, but eventually tactically out smarted, and eventually going out. Happened so many times to us, even against Juve.
This one result shouldn’t detract from Poch in his first(maybe, not sure about that) spin in champions league knockouts. He will learn from it if he is a good manager.
but I am happy considering he was being touted as a genius after beating Madrid in a nothing group game. It is a different ball game in knockout stages.
He now has one shot to win a trophy this year in the fa cup or it will be 3 trophyless seasons for him which, given the quality he has in his side, is simply not good enough to be classed as a top tier manager.
I think you may have taken the word 'unlucky' very literal. It was more a figure of speech. However, the other day, people, including myself, were saying Palace were 'unlucky' to lose. Definitely did enough to get something out of the game, in my opinion.
Moving to Spurs, having watched the first leg, where I felt they dominated Juve at their home ground, and doing the same at Wembley, I personally feel they were unlucky not to go through.