On an individual season yes, over a decade, I am not sure. A great manager finds a way of winning a trophy or two over a decade.
A serious look at Mauricio Pochettino
- Thread starter NotBrendanRodgers honest
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Any suitors for him currently? Newcastle? I though maybe Juve then Barca but neither is happening.
Yet you would have been ready to revise your opinion if things had gone differently on one or two occasions over a decade.
Yep, if there were counter-examples of managers who won feck all started to win consistently trophies after a decade, I would have been happy to change my opinion.
Can’t grasp people not rating this guy.
He was managing Spurs, and had summers where he was allowed to sign nobody. He had a strict wage bill that was dwarfed by all the teams around him.
It’s incredible how anyone can look at what he did with Spurs and not think he is a great coach. It was a really super job and not winning a trophy means very little when you are competing with 5-6 teams who spend more on wages and players every season.
He was managing Spurs, and had summers where he was allowed to sign nobody. He had a strict wage bill that was dwarfed by all the teams around him.
It’s incredible how anyone can look at what he did with Spurs and not think he is a great coach. It was a really super job and not winning a trophy means very little when you are competing with 5-6 teams who spend more on wages and players every season.
The fact that he's only managed teams who generally win very little doesn't count for anything? You can't reasonably compare the trophy haul of a guy who coached Espanyol, Southampton and Spurs to elite managers who managed elite clubs.
I've heard the same thing for pretty much any manager over the years, and I still have to see those counter-examples. Managers tend to do their best work relatively early on their career, if they haven't won anything in a decade, chances are high that they won't win much in the future.
Happy to be proven wrong.
Manchester bound?
Pochettino is still clear favourite to be the next Utd manager and a hot favourite for the City job.
Playing the waiting game me thinks.
Pochettino is still clear favourite to be the next Utd manager and a hot favourite for the City job.
Playing the waiting game me thinks.
Fair play to him. Good manager. Don't rate him like some but he deserves a crack at a big job.
Its really bizarre how polarising the opinions are about him. Either he is gods gift and United are fools for letting him go, or he is a hack whose never won a trophy and finished third in a 2 horse race.
Both points of view are extreme. I mean, he has done enough to be rated for sure, but not enough to have this weird cult following within our fanbase. Woodward will receive far stronger CVs on his desk should we part ways with Ole.
I have my doubt. If Ole project failed yet again, good coaches would think twice before committing to work under Woodward.
Mourinho had the same tbh. Its the last thing we need - our fan base is weird enough as it comes to their hero worshipping of managers.
If it was up to me, I'd stick all future managers in a helmet and hide their identity like the stig from top gear. Don't give the weirdos another figure to rally around.
I am not even saying I would have him over Ole. Nothing is guaranteed in football, but I don’t understand how his job at Spurs isn’t rated by some. I don’t think he could have done much more with the restrictions he had. He overachieved massively.
There is absolutely no evidence that he could translate that to a big club with big egos, of course, but I feel that those who are negative about his work at Spurs aren’t equating how they were viewed as a club before he arrived and how big a threat he made them. He legitimized them as a threat to any team in Europe. It was quite a feat.
Sarri? Played with smaller clubs and as soon as he got Chelsea and Juve he won trophies.
Obviously he got sacked but he wouldn't get sacked here for not winning the CL and Chelsea go through managers as much as anyone.
Yeah, I was thinking him. Though to be fair, not sure how much league title with Juve says, but he is the closest thing to a counter example.
I dont think there are many that truly don't rate him. Id imagine most people say that based on some other agenda.
I'm backing Ole for at least another season, by which time you'd have to imagine that Pochettino will have another position. So be it. For me, he's in a group of candidates that we should be considering if and when the time comes but I wouldnt personally have him at the top of that group, but i also wouldn't rule out him making a success of this job.
He didn't get sacked from Chelsea either. Juve paid us £5 million to release him from his contract.
I'd take Nagelsman easily over Poch, so no, United could find someone better.
The irony is that when you are sacking your manager it's usually because the club is in a complete mess and you need someone to come in quickly to steady the ship. Arguably that's the absolute worst time to tempt in a top candidate.
My bad. But were fans happy with him? It seemed like his time was up there?
Chelsea played a mind game there to not only save the severance fee but also get something for him. It worked out this time, unlike when they tried it the previous season. No one came to take Conte when it's known Sarri to Chelsea was done.
Had Juventus not pulled the trigger, I still believe the writings was on the wall for Sarri already, and Chelsea had to pull the trigger instead.
Still think he's going to be first candidate for our new manager if it starts going downhill with Ole. Maybe I overrate Pochettino but really liked his Spurs team, as well as his Southampton side in 2014.
He could likely end up at Barca next summer when/if Bartomeu is gone after presidential elections, though they could opt for Xavi. City is an option too (Pep is going into his 5th season there, possibly his last) , as well as Juve if Pirlo fails.
If Tuchel got tired of managing PSG, then Poch would be the only choice at PSG. Probably his most likely next job. He's an unbelievable manager who will do great things in the game over the next decade.
You might but the club, thankfully, would not.
Yes, and this is where people are undervaluing the job that Ole is doing here. He will be expected to win trophies over the next season or two, but if he doesn't and the club decide to make a change then his successor will certainly inherit a far better situation than Ole did.
It is pretty unlikely, for all the good he is doing, that Ole will be here indefinitely. Even if he wins a few things, chances are there will be more hard times at some point and he will probably be sacked one day. That’s just the way of it.
I don’t think he will be sacked soon and surely not before Poch gets a job somewhere else. I am not averse to Poch coming here one day but I want to see proof he has learned something from his atrocious last months at Spurs.
If Ole does leave or get sacked soon, I would prefer Bielsa. And if not him, someone a bit more proven than Poch, or failing that, another United man.
As you say, whoever comes in has a very decent platform to work from.
It's a lack of maturity from some posters who only view the world in black or white. Totally unable to see the bigger picture and jump onto whatever agenda they feel suits, dismissing any views that don't match with their own and unable to debate.
Who else?
He'll be the next Tottenham manager after Mourinho gets sacked next season.
The nature of this sort of debate is really to polarise the opposing views. I once posted that Poch is Shite in response to posts that he was the best and only choice for us. I don’t really think he’s shite but when people post he is god, it is not an uncommon way of responding (if a little childish) because it provides counter balance to views at the opposite extreme.
Even when you post a balanced and (dare I say) reasonable opinion, such as “he has shown a lot of promise but struggled for the last year and there are likely better options for us”, you still get “Poch is the best bar none“ coming back.
I rate him somewhat and wish him luck. One day when he has held it together long enough to prove he is a winner, I’d probably welcome him here.
See post no. 12589 above. I would say give me any manager over the vastly overrated and frankly abysmal Poch but see also post no.12593.
You're saying he wouldn't even be in the conversation if we lost our manager tomorrow. I'm guessing you know that is obviously nonsense and are just trying to be controversial. But if you truly do believe that nonsense, surely you can easily give me the five names that would shut Poch out of the conversation?
He wouldn’t be in my conversation. I don’t think the club will want him either. Not at this stage.
Pick any five names from the top half of the prem and A couple from the top few sides in the top European leagues and you’ll have at least a dozen names there who would be ahead of Poch especially when you consider his demands.
As mentioned, my choice would be Bielsa. Poch deserves a decent job somewhere, why not? He’s a promising coach.
Klopp: Not gonna happen
Guardiola: Not gonna happen
Lampard: Unproven, inexperienced + Chelsea legend, i.e. not gonna happen
Mourinho: Didn't work out that well
Brendan Rodgers: Former Liverpool manager, unlikely to happen, credentials no better than Poch's (though I actually rate Rodgers)
Arteta: Former City and Arsenal. Yet to prove himself as a manager
Nuno: Done well at Wolves, won nothing with Porto and was sacked because of it. Better than Poch? By which measure?
Wilder: I like him and his team but he's more unproven than Poch at the top level. Even if you prefer him, you can't argue he'd keep Poch out of the conversation
Sean Dyche: Yeah, let's not go there
You're gonna have to help me out here. Who are these realistically available managers that are so superior to Poch that he shouldn't even be in the conversation? You've mentioned one so far.
I’m not going to help you. I don’t think you can be helped. Why don’t we wait and see?
You can't help me, more like it, because what you're saying makes no sense.
I see what you are saying when you think about that without discrimination because generally managers are replaced because they are doing a poor job but it doesn't mean that it's the ideal moment to do it. For example, Rodgers and Ranieri weren't doing a particularly poor job when Chelsea and Liverpool replaced them, there is also a case to replace your manager when you believe that the current one has reached his limits and a more suitable manager is available.
I don't know if this applies to Ole today but it is possible that we reach that point in the future without the club being in a mess or Ole doing a poor job, if you believe that the club is steady and that you need something different you may have a case for change.
You want Poch that’s fine. This is a waste of my effort because your posts are the type that cause polarised debate.
If you are asking by which measure any manager is better than Poch, you’re coming at it wrong.
For a start there is no meaningful measure by which Poch is better than anyone. But more to the point, you think Poch is already in Pole Position and it is for everyone else to get him out of the conversation. That’s why you have people saying Poch is shite - they have to adopt a polar opposite position.
You say IF Ole is sacked tomorrow. To borrow a phrase from your post: Not going to happen. But the fun of these forums is sometimes debating hypotheticals. If so why couldn’t Guardiola leave City? Why couldn’t Rodgers leave Leicester?
My point is that there is no particular reason Poch should be anywhere near the top of our list.
Off the top of my head, I can’t trot out the list of all the managers in Europe but I am aware that there are managers and coaches in these clubs, many doing good work. Look em up, dude. You do some of the legwork. And when necessary, our hierarchy will do the legwork and, guess what, the world does not begin and end with Poch.
I am not his biggest fan but there’s still time for him to get a top job, just not now. On a practical note, I gather he is very expensive and wants a lot of control, both things that our board will be reticent about. When things weren’t going well for him at Spurs he became miserable and that just made it worse.
In the end, you want him, I don’t.
You don't think it's polarising to state, as if it was a simple fact, that the club wouldn't even consider Poch if we were without a manager? Or to not even bother to back some up such a claim with arguments, while ignoring any counter-arguments? I just completely dismantled your claim that you could pick any five managers from the top-half of the table and they'd all be better than Poch, and you simply decided to ignore it. Get off your high horse. If anyone has been polarising here, it's you.