A serious look at Mauricio Pochettino

cheeky_backheel

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The Spurs board really let him down. He wanted Bruno and Grealish. He was really pushing hard. Can you imagine if they had them both?
Spurs would have been like an all time great team if they didnt fail Poch.
Given what Poch had, he should have been able to deliver some silver ware via one of the cups or Europa league.

Not sure the PSG job is a good fit though, given the exectations, divas and possibly limited spending. Ligue 1 also seems to be more competitive with Lyon, Marseille, Rennes and Lille looking decent.

If he fails at PSG, that would really dent his resume
 

AR87

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He clearly did a good job at Spurs but he absolutely had a team good enough to win the league in 15/16 and 16/17. That he didn't do so doesn't make him an abject failure or anything, but it does mean he's not perfect or even certain to deliver silverware for United in a league I feel is more competitive and at a time where our ability to add talent in the transfer market is more limited.

I also wonder about how much of Spurs decline was down to not replacing core pieces in the side who were sold or declined, and how much was down to teams adapting to and familiarizing themselves with their established play style under Poch. It certainly felt his last 1.5 seasons on the job that they had dropped a level which the CL run helped mask.

Good luck to him at PSG but I've not ever been convinced he was a no-brainer choice for United, just a good option we should consider if/when we decide Ole can't take us any further, a point I personally don't think we've reached yet.
 

Maluco

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Really great going from 4/5th to 3rd/4th on average with Kane at his peak.

His job at Spurs is so overrated it's not true.
Sorry Alex, absolute rubbish. If it was that easy, the likes of Everton and Wolves would have done it once, nevermind every singles season!

It’s the most underrated job in PL history I think. To measure it just by position and say “well he had Kane”, is ridiculous.
 

alexthelion

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Sorry Alex, absolute rubbish. If it was that easy, the likes of Everton and Wolves would have done it once, nevermind every singles season!

It’s the most underrated job in PL history I think. To measure it just by position and say “well he had Kane”, is ridiculous.
Why?

He also had the likes of Son, Eriksen, Alderweirel et al. He had very, very good players and won feck all, improved their league position by one? place on average and played some absolutely awful football.

Imo, he's the most overrated manager in the PL in the last 5 years.
 

Maluco

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Spurs isn’t comparable to Manchester United either...

In terms of his wages compared to those he was competing against, and beating, consistently...

“The most recent published accounts reveal that Tottenham's wage bill for last season was £121.2m. That is around £100m a year lower than the wage bills of Manchester City, Manchester United and Chelsea. It was also £80m lower than north London neighbours Arsenal and actually closer to the wage bills of Everton and West Ham than Liverpool.”

In terms of his spending compared to other sides in the PL...
https://www.google.com.br/amp/s/www...auricio-pochettino-overachieving-at-tottenham

A net spend of less than Stoke, West Ham and West Brom, and well below the miracle that was Leicester City.
 

VP89

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Really bad terms, just as how PSG decided to sack him now.

Sounds like destined to end up at Chelsea.
Ah fair enough. PSG I can understand leaving on bad terms with because the club is a circus, but if he left on bad terms with Dortmund too I wonder if he's a difficult character.
 

Maluco

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Why?

He also had the likes of Son, Eriksen, Alderweirel et al. He had very, very good players and won feck all, improved their league position by one? place on average and played some absolutely awful football.

Imo, he's the most overrated manager in the PL in the last 5 years.
Does he not get any credit at all for improving Kane? For vastly improving Eriksen and Dembele?

What about the credit for bringing in Son and Alderweireld?

He doesn’t get credit for building such a good team on such a strict budget?
 

Mr Smith

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Why?

He also had the likes of Son, Eriksen, Alderweirel et al. He had very, very good players and won feck all, improved their league position by one? place on average and played some absolutely awful football.

Imo, he's the most overrated manager in the PL in the last 5 years.
Your problem is you are judging Poch just based on the players he had, without looking at the wider competitive context. Poch brought Spurs consistently into the top 4 at a time when five other clubs were fighting a massive arms race to get to the top. Yes there was an anomaly in 2015 16, but his Spurs side was very inexperienced at that time. After that he was fighting against Guardiola's City, Mourunho's United, Conte's Chelsea, and Klopp's Liverpool. The fact that he made top four for three consecutive seasons with barely any investment compared to the money others were spending is an astounding achievement. I'll never understand people who say Poch's work at Spurs is overrated.
 

troylocker

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In terms of his wages compared to those he was competing against, and beating, consistently...
His record against those teams were crap. Which big team has he ever beaten consistantly?

Very overrated in my opinion.
 

Ayush_reddevil

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Can't think of a worse argument in football than he hasn't won any trophies . I am sure no one is lining up to give Arteta a job now because he won the FA cup. Trophies are nice & good but decisions about managers must be made based on overall performances rather than just winning a random cup competition
 

Ayush_reddevil

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Some of the arguments here are so bad. People genuinely believe that he has been unemployed because no club in the top leagues wanted to employ him 6 months after he got to the Cl final with spurs . Isnt it obvious that any manager would want to go to a bigger job than their previous job , why would he take a random job after managing spurs . If anything this PSG gig has proven that he was absolutely right to wait his turn
 

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He clearly did a good job at Spurs but he absolutely had a team good enough to win the league in 15/16 and 16/17. That he didn't do so doesn't make him an abject failure or anything, but it does mean he's not perfect or even certain to deliver silverware for United in a league I feel is more competitive and at a time where our ability to add talent in the transfer market is more limited.

I also wonder about how much of Spurs decline was down to not replacing core pieces in the side who were sold or declined, and how much was down to teams adapting to and familiarizing themselves with their established play style under Poch. It certainly felt his last 1.5 seasons on the job that they had dropped a level which the CL run helped mask.

Good luck to him at PSG but I've not ever been convinced he was a no-brainer choice for United, just a good option we should consider if/when we decide Ole can't take us any further, a point I personally don't think we've reached yet.
2016 yes 2017 no. I could never imagine those players getting 94 points. thats basically what these crazy City and Liverpool teams have been doing recently and Spurs was never that.
 

edcunited1878

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Sorry Alex, absolute rubbish. If it was that easy, the likes of Everton and Wolves would have done it once, nevermind every singles season!

It’s the most underrated job in PL history I think. To measure it just by position and say “well he had Kane”, is ridiculous.
The most underrated? Uh Ranieri says hi.
 

edcunited1878

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2016 yes 2017 no. I could never imagine those players getting 94 points. thats basically what these crazy City and Liverpool teams have been doing recently and Spurs was never that.
Spurs were and probably are still missing that one key player to get them over the hill.

Not sure Bale is the guy as thus far he hasn't played much in the league, but Spurs under Poch didnt have that additional thrust to get them over the line first. Kane, Son, Dele, Eriksen at their top weren't good enough then. Spurs are even more reliant on Kane and Son now. Moura or Bergjwin would have to elevate to another level or two and sustain it for 5 months...very questionable to happen.

Their best chance was when Leicester won the league but they were just top of the chasing pack and were always on the perephrials instead of actually going blow for blow.
 

Ayush_reddevil

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The argument is as bad as "He went to CL final with Spurs, so imagine what he can do at United"
Not really. That argument is that he built a quality squad of young players without major investment which was capable of making the cl final & finishing top 4 in the league so imagine him with actual resources. Now obviously we don't know if he can do it with the money but it does seem obvious that it should be easier with money
 

glazed

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If you appointed a good coach it would become more obvious that the internal problems at Manchester United lie elsewhere - as with Jose. Appoint a bad coach and you lose money - as with Moyes. Best to have someone that's popular with the fans who is somewhere in between.
 

Stacks

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Spurs were and probably are still missing that one key player to get them over the hill.

Not sure Bale is the guy as thus far he hasn't played much in the league, but Spurs under Poch didnt have that additional thrust to get them over the line first. Kane, Son, Dele, Eriksen at their top weren't good enough then. Spurs are even more reliant on Kane and Son now. Moura or Bergjwin would have to elevate to another level or two and sustain it for 5 months...very questionable to happen.

Their best chance was when Leicester won the league but they were just top of the chasing pack and were always on the perephrials instead of actually going blow for blow.
Its funny because Eriksen and Dele ain't doing shit now, when people were talking about them as world beaters and potential Real Madrid signings.
 

edcunited1878

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Its funny because Eriksen and Dele ain't doing shit now, when people were talking about them as world beaters and potential Real Madrid signings.
Dele went downhill at the same time Eriksen did, which I dont find too crazy. Dele's output and end results for a couple of years were insane for someone coming from MKD. But he relied so much from his teammates and never was a midfielder. It's like he and Son switched roles but Dele just stopped being influential at any level.

Eriksen lost a lot of his desire and total commitment to the squad. An odd downfall at the end of his Spurs career which has carried over to Inter. Think he's done at the top level and isn't bothered anymore.
 

AR87

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2016 yes 2017 no. I could never imagine those players getting 94 points. thats basically what these crazy City and Liverpool teams have been doing recently and Spurs was never that.
They had the strongest XI in the league in 16/17 by quite a margin imo. They had the best goal difference and were top in goals scored and against. Chelsea had an advantage as they didn't have European football that year, but certainly Spurs absolutely could have won that with City, Liverpool, Arsenal and United well off their level.
 

Suv666

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Allegri has won a lot of silverware, would anyone take him over Poch?
Using trophy haul as the only metric to judge a manager is daft.
Spurs had their highest point total in the PL era and played their first CL final under Poch.
Southampton had their highest point tally since the PL began under him.
Those are very impressive feats, achieved with a limited budget and well above expectations. Much more impressive than winning a couple of trophies with juggernauts like City, Barca or Real.
I'm not advocating sacking our current manager and appointing Poch but lets not paint him as an inept sub-par manager who choked.
 

Zlatan 7

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It wasnt a lot of resources. Grealish was only worth 25 million at the time. Spurs didnt wanna pay that much.
Poch is not low key clearly. If not Paris then Madrid would have hired him.
He is the cream of the crop. The hottest commodity on the market as far as coaches. The first one any big team would be looking at except I guess Barcelona but thats another story.
That is simply not true and I’m not sure how I’m seeing it so much, plenty of teams have hired managers while Poch has been out of a job and if he’s so sought after and garunteed winner then any club who wanted to win anything would have sacked their manager and immediately hired Poch anyway if he was available. That clearly hasn’t happened
 

Cassidy

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That is simply not true and I’m not sure how I’m seeing it so much, plenty of teams have hired managers while Poch has been out of a job and if he’s so sought after and garunteed winner then any club who wanted to win anything would have sacked their manager and immediately hired Poch anyway if he was available. That clearly hasn’t happened
He also has to accept the job
 

Bepi

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Allegri has won a lot of silverware, would anyone take him over Poch?
Using trophy haul as the only metric to judge a manager is daft.
Spurs had their highest point total in the PL era and played their first CL final under Poch.
Southampton had their highest point tally since the PL began under him.
Those are very impressive feats, achieved with a limited budget and well above expectations. Much more impressive than winning a couple of trophies with juggernauts like City, Barca or Real.
I'm not advocating sacking our current manager and appointing Poch but lets not paint him as an inept sub-par manager who choked.
If a club needs to win... the former knows what it takes, the latter not (yet)? Learning to win means learning to manage many more aspects than just coaching and fielding a squad. Winning is also ugly, more times than not. Punching above your weight aka beating moderate expectations is a relative feat. Winning something, anything really, means you can do psychology, dressroom manipulation, balancement of lows and highs, performance at crunch time. Poch has done nothing of sort yet... he stroke a Cinderella run in the CL and got depressed for one year after his bubble burst. I mean, is he 15 or 45? He is not inept, he has just not done the leap yet. Ranieri, Conte, even Sarri did and achieved much more than him in England.
 

Zlatan 7

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How does it feel to be a fly on the wall in all these interviews?
Yeah ok, he’s obviously had numerous interviews and clubs offering to sack their manager for him but he’s turned them all down, so in demand.

he can be good or crap for all I care but pretending that any top club would take him when they clearly haven’t is pointless stuff really ain’t it. All the talk of if United had any balls or ambition they’d fire their manger for him, when nobody else had taken this ‘garunteed’ risk either is also a bit silly
 

crossy1686

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Possibly taking over PSG at the worst time in their recent history.

Neymar looking to leave and join Barcelona in the summer.
Mbappe looking to move to Madrid in the summer.

Who are they going to replace those two with? The PSG project has failed, everyone knows the league is a joke and the club tie good players down to massive contracts so they can’t leave after bottling the CL year after year.

He’ll get sacked from this job within 2 years
 

Stacks

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They had the strongest XI in the league in 16/17 by quite a margin imo. They had the best goal difference and were top in goals scored and against. Chelsea had an advantage as they didn't have European football that year, but certainly Spurs absolutely could have won that with City, Liverpool, Arsenal and United well off their level.
Pardon? City had Kompany, Sane, Sterling, Aguero, Silva, De Bruyne, Fernandinho, Gundogan etc They are not even comparable. When City won the league many of these players were still featuring regularly.

Spurs had Harry Winks Wanyama Dembele, Dier, Alli and Eriksen. Not a single midfieder would break into City's midfielder and you could argue maybe one CB and one fb. attacking wise no one as Kane ain't replacing Aguero.

To say Spurs had the best 11 by a margin is one of the most stranger things I have heard recently. Chelsea had arguably the best player in the league in Hazard, Diego Costa and the best CM in Kante. The only players from Spurs who would definitely get games at Chelsea would be Kane, Walker and maybe one of the CB's.

They were never a team capable of netting 94 points. This is the first time I have ever heard someone say this. The only player they had who was a rival as the best in his position was Kane.
 

AR87

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Pardon? City had Kompany, Sane, Sterling, Aguero, Silva, De Bruyne, Fernandinho, Gundogan etc They are not even comparable. When City won the league many of these players were still featuring regularly.

Spurs had Harry Winks Wanyama Dembele, Dier, Alli and Eriksen. Not a single midfieder would break into City's midfielder and you could argue maybe one CB and one fb. attacking wise no one as Kane ain't replacing Aguero.

To say Spurs had the best 11 by a margin is one of the most stranger things I have heard recently. Chelsea had arguably the best player in the league in Hazard, Diego Costa and the best CM in Kante. The only players from Spurs who would definitely get games at Chelsea would be Kane, Walker and maybe one of the CB's.

They were never a team capable of netting 94 points. This is the first time I have ever heard someone say this. The only player they had who was a rival as the best in his position was Kane.
Their collective XI was the strongest of all teams that year. There's a reason why City had to spend a load on FBs following the season and why Chelsea dropped off when they didn't strengthen effectively in the transfer window and had more fixtures with CL.

Wanyama was excellent that season before he became a permacrock. Same for Dembele, who also was excellent before age and injuries impacted his performance.

Kane won Golden Boot, and Alli and Son had 20 plus goals in all comps. Kane, Alli, Walker, and Rose were all in the PFA Team of the Year, joint most with Chelsea.

This is from a Spurs blog itself in their season review:

"The general consensus was that, despite Chelsea winning the title, Tottenham Hotspur were the best team in English football since the start of 2017."

https://cartilagefreecaptain.sbnati...30/tottenham-hotspur-2016-17-season-in-review

It absolutely was thought by many they were the strongest team in England that season.

Again, not a massive failure in my eyes they didn't win, but they definitely had more than just a chance for 2 seasons running. After that with City and Liverpool strengthening as they had, and even United performing better in 17/18, I understand the drop off in form in the league to an extent even though there were elements of it I think were concerning.
 

Jibbs

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Your problem is you are judging Poch just based on the players he had, without looking at the wider competitive context. Poch brought Spurs consistently into the top 4 at a time when five other clubs were fighting a massive arms race to get to the top. Yes there was an anomaly in 2015 16, but his Spurs side was very inexperienced at that time. After that he was fighting against Guardiola's City, Mourunho's United, Conte's Chelsea, and Klopp's Liverpool. The fact that he made top four for three consecutive seasons with barely any investment compared to the money others were spending is an astounding achievement. I'll never understand people who say Poch's work at Spurs is overrated.
This.
 

reddevilchennai

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Imagine the scenes when Pochettino will be managing Messi, Neymar next season. And Mbappe too if Real Madrid can't afford him this summer.
 

Dr. StrangeHate

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Possibly taking over PSG at the worst time in their recent history.

Neymar looking to leave and join Barcelona in the summer.
Mbappe looking to move to Madrid in the summer.

Who are they going to replace those two with? The PSG project has failed, everyone knows the league is a joke and the club tie good players down to massive contracts so they can’t leave after bottling the CL year after year.

He’ll get sacked from this job within 2 years
Without Neymar and Mbappe, PSG isn't even top 4 level in the PL. It is going to be a really tough job.
 

RedBanker

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The amount of vitriol here for Pochettino. It's quite sad. That too on Christmas. Enjoy the day guys. Enjoy the life what we have.
 

babablue

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Possibly taking over PSG at the worst time in their recent history.

Neymar looking to leave and join Barcelona in the summer.
Mbappe looking to move to Madrid in the summer.

Who are they going to replace those two with? The PSG project has failed, everyone knows the league is a joke and the club tie good players down to massive contracts so they can’t leave after bottling the CL year after year.

He’ll get sacked from this job within 2 years
To me, It seems likelier that Messi ends up at PSG, than Neymar back in Barcelona. I don't know what Poch's relationship with Messi is like, but it can't hurt that they are both from Argentina.