As far as I can remember, they are generally both in man marking. I don't really understand why you try try differentiate them, neither are particularly good.
A tactical shift from Ole? Shirley not
- Thread starter Bubz27
- Start date
They concede less corners but last season and the one before, they conceded from corners at a lower rate as well.
The numbers just don't line up with what you're saying.
And the exact same for man to man marking too. Yet you’ll never see any pundit break out into hysteric rants about how terrible man to man marking is.
Why would Pep need to come up with a new tactic if he wasn't tactically outsmarted the first time?
No no. It’s not pointless but thanks. I have a few points though..
We switched from 4-3-3 to 4-3-2-1 playing Lingard as striker indeed. In the second half Spurs adjusted there formation moving Eriksen back to dictate from deep whilst we spent the next 45 mins camped in our half with De Gea making more saves than he did against Arsenal away the year before. Did you remember that bit?
We did.. we beat an outdated tactican we rightfully sacked. Remember how he set up against them the season before. He used the same tactics and lost. Tried to play football when his teams cannot play football.
We did outwork them in the first half and Pep was naive to give our attackers that much space behind them. The second half they nullified AWB and allowed them to get control of the game again. We held on in the end.
No call it City destroying us for 45 mins and taking their foot of the gas
We should have won that game. He can have that one.
Ole try's to play like Liverpool and utilize our full backs that are shit at crossing the ball as the main focal point, all while being ineffective in what makes Liverpool so successful - their counter press. The area that Liverpool win the ball at - due to their press - is one of the main reasons they're so effective. The majority of our players have little movement off the ball and how many players actually get into the box during crosses, 1 - 2 maybe. If Ole wasn't tactical challenged, this would be seen on the pitch, we shouldn't need an article to explain what he's attempting to do.
Except that it is. Overlapping fullbacks always need some sort of a covering system. Alves had Abidal tucking in. If you have 2 overlapping fullbacks, midfielders either cover out wide or drop back to allow center backs to cover the wings. It’s tactics 101, really, and everyone does it. What this article seem to ignore is that this system, that is based on attacking fullbacks and mobile covering players, is implemented in a team, where fullbacks are pretty much useless in attack and one of the covering players is either Matić or Maguire, a duo with the combined pace of a lumping turtle.
I’m not an Ole-out fanatic, even though I hope that we’ll hire a top manager soon. But that article is a bunch of nicely-formatted and illustrated pointless sentences.
Ole actually implicates some interesting ideas, like a strong focus on playing the ball out of defense with short passing — even against City (hey, it worked... once). He even forced De Gea to accurately pass with his feet, I can’t remember the last time I saw him doing that and not just goofing the ball forward.
It is. They dominate possession because they use zonal defending. It’s not like Pep can switch to man-marking and keep the same attacking style while significantly improving their defense. And they barely allow any shots toward their goal to the opposition when the system works as intended. It’s a high risk - high reward type of a situation (not only their zonal system, but also their high line, aggressive pressing etc.)
What am I reading? Nearly all high press teams use zonal marking. Man marking is used situationally, mainly of specific players.
Re: his game management, I agree and I've been harping on about it, but it's one of the areas where he's really shit. Any tactical change from the opposing manager and he's caught like a deer in headlights. I think Carrick, McKenna and Phelan should help out more and we also need players with tactical knowledge on the field to call out adjustments.
One case in point is our last game against Pool, they started the second half pressing high and causing all sorts of chaos and for ten minutes we were still trying to play it out the back when De Gea collected the ball / tried to look for passes when counter attacking. I think it was De Gea after 10 minutes or so who decided to say feck it and just started lumping it long and the rest of the team caught on. We then played out the rest of the game okay. We almost gave away a couple of goals in that time and stuff like this shouldn't take 10 minutes to change for a coach.
Maybe they do. But at United it clearly isn't working well enough is it.
The players are not reacting quickly or positively to counter the threat.
No he isn't. He is a brilliant coach who can make that work.
Are you always this weird?
Well obviously they’re more exposed when missing their best defender. They still aren’t evidence that zonal marking is the best way to go because clearly defending has been the weakest part of them their game for years.
At least I'm not the only one who felt that way.
They dominate possession because they have better players than everybody else and play to keep possession, not because of zonal defending. When talking zonal marking I thought we were taking about corners.
But the marking on corners has nothing to do with possession.
I have zero faith in Ole being a good enough manager for United, I read the entire article and am at a loss to what the guy has been smoking, what is so Liverpool-esque about the basic tactics like pushing up fullbacks & inverted wingers? The guy knows that every single team who play with attacking fullbacks ask their DM to fill in for them right? And Trent playing numerous cross field balls to Robertson is obviously the same as one pass from Williams to AWB.
And then he goes and brings up this blinder and had my head spinning faster than a Heart & Diamonds ride at Knutsford fair.
"At the start it was working"? Was it mate, fecking was it? because Pogba played in the following before his injury:
United 4 - 0 Chelsea
Wolves 1 - 1 United
United 1 - 2 Palace
Southampton 1 - 1 United
If that is working, well I'm happy December arrived and some shit actually did finally start working, because a 25% win-rate isn't what I'd call working.
They concede less corners because they are attacked less often due to the domination of possession.
The original discussion had nothing to do with the corners. And yes, they dominate the possession because they have great technical players and they implement a defensive structure (that includes everyone, not only the back 4) that is suited for the task in hand — to deny the opposition space and time on the ball. More so, juego de posición, Pep's philosophy, is the ultimate version of zonal defending.
I'm not really sure what everyone is talking about on this.
The point they were making on Sky was that one of the better taller defenders, such as Maguire, should have been on VVD specifically at corners rather than leaving it to Williams.
I didn't hear them saying zonal marking shouldn't be used in general.
They are attacked less because they are good at keeping the ball and regaining possession quickly. You can't be a good possession team without being good at defending, the transition to defense is probably the most important part for these teams.
Nothing would give me more pleasure than us getting two players, Ole growing in stature and going on a winning run and snagging top 4, maybe winning the Europa.
I still maintain that there are too many worrying signs, in how he manages the squad and injuries, how many points he has lost this season despite a more talented squad than some would like to admit, and, crucially, his posture in standing up to the owners and getting what he needs to be successful.
I am Ole out, but I will still be cheering for the team and looking for hope in articles such as this one. The likes of Hassenhutl has picked up recently with far inferior players and shown a flexibility in altering his formation to get better results.
Ole needs to start getting results more often. Hopefully we hammer Burnley tonight because Chelsea are on the ropes.
I still maintain that there are too many worrying signs, in how he manages the squad and injuries, how many points he has lost this season despite a more talented squad than some would like to admit, and, crucially, his posture in standing up to the owners and getting what he needs to be successful.
I am Ole out, but I will still be cheering for the team and looking for hope in articles such as this one. The likes of Hassenhutl has picked up recently with far inferior players and shown a flexibility in altering his formation to get better results.
Ole needs to start getting results more often. Hopefully we hammer Burnley tonight because Chelsea are on the ropes.
May not ultimately be relevant to @acnumber9's point (I don't know and I don't care anymore), but yes, shout this louder please.
Maybe we'll get a stat in a few years that covers the percentage of goals conceded while using man-to-man defense vs zonal.
Thanks @Bubz27 , was indeed a nice read.
Cheers.
Cheers.
Zonal marking or man to man marking at set pieces has got nothing to do with pressing.
So a 9?
A
Are you always this annoying?
Child.
AWB could have 2 assists tonight if Martial and Mata were on their job.
Such rubbish tactics today.
Plays a false 9 player with James and and Mata.
Literally the only forward we have is on the bench.
I'm done with Ole.
We are desperate & he started the season saying that players like Greenwood were ready - guess all that was a lie.
Plays a false 9 player with James and and Mata.
Literally the only forward we have is on the bench.
I'm done with Ole.
We are desperate & he started the season saying that players like Greenwood were ready - guess all that was a lie.
Tactics!
The tactical genius 
Lost twice 2-0 
great fecking tactics, lets give me more
Lost twice 2-0 great fecking tactics, lets give me moreThis didn’t take long to crash and burn.
I started to read the article but stopped right there. Like City, Liverpool and France all rolled into one
Solskjær's level is Scandinavia, not the Premier League.
We still want to talk about tactics?
That's what a quasi false 9 is.
More like tactical shit amrite?
Like I said earlier in the thread, it's all just random. I was hoping he actually learnt something, but unfortunately, he seems to be oblivious.