Don’t think it’s an initial factor (that’s all the idiocy of evangelicals / uber-religious), but they don’t mind that it could make that trend.
Abortion
- Thread starter Pagh Wraith
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It would be even more batshit crazy if it were the former.
I think a lot of them are just bad people. Morally twisted, evil people. No human with a shred of a conscience can say a 10 year old girl should carry a pregnancy for the blessing of a child, because of a voting tactic.
It’s mostly due to religion, nothing more.
Which would be a more liberal abortion regime than is currently available in England and Wales, and for that reason I would support the move.
Religion isn't an excuse for being a bad person
In this case, it’s the reason.
History disagrees.
It may not be an excuse but it certainly is a reason for many.
Many religions don't outlaw abortion.
It's the twisted form of Evangelical Christianity we have in the states that is virulently against abortion to the point of cruelty.
Compare that to most of our neighbors south of the border, predominantly Christian, but allow abortion to varying extents.
And I read somewhere that it's a relatively recent thing even for them, like going back to the 80s.
Surreal thing is that the wacko anti-abortion stance only started in 1980.
The issue is that the same people who are vehemently anti-abortion tend to also promote 'abstinence only' sex education and they tend to favour banning contraceptives, too.
Why though? What changed from 1980 and onwards?
Well, if we are going to ban abortions let's at least make sure people have the mean to prevent pregna......oh wait. Nah.
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Conservative radio culture war.
That and the explosion of the, mostly extreme evangelical, mega churches. It makes group think and subversion so much easier.
I've been reading a lot about the Evangelical movement in recent days. Their mobilization beyond religion into politics is equal parts creepy and fascinating.
Look for a TV show shown in the UK years ago, Gods Next Army..
The show is about a school (Patrick Henry College) in Virginia that was created by evangelical Christians with the sole intent of preparing students for high positions roles in politics and jobs throughout the US. From memory the kids who attend had all been home schooled by religious parents who didn't want their kids brainwashed by the liberal public school system. Much like the way Betst De Vos thinks too.
It"s kind of a training camp for future ceo's, politicians, Senators, Judges, Police Chiefs and hopefully Presidents, Vuce Presidents and Cabinet members.
All students are held tomstrict religious rules and taught extreme right wing views and beleifs.
It was scary as hell and thinking back to it, it seems that they have got their way. I wonder how many other colleges their are like this around the USA?
What nonsense reason have they given for this?
States’ rights
Do I think unplanned pregnacies are from many who lacks understanding? Yes. If couples keep getting pregnant but dont want any more children, why? Why are they keep getting pregnant?The costs are minimal compared to children being bought up in wrong environments, causing any number of issues further down the line for the kids or parents. In a lot of circumstances, getting an abortion is the responsible thing to do, so it’s funny you mention that word.
I don’t think the problem is lack of sex educationDo you think the unplanned pregnancies are from people who don’t understand contraception?
The simple fact is there are so many possible reasons why a couple, or a woman, decide to get an abortion. Trying to put it down to lack of responsibility or eduction is actually insulting.
Yes there are many reasons for unwanted pregnacies, rape and other bad things are unwanted and abortion for such cases should be free, and such cases arent about education and lack of responsibility. But couples who gets pregnant and dont want kids/more kids are lack of responsibility, people who have unprotected sex randomly is a lack of responsibility. These cases can be lowered and should be.
Men needs to be much more willing to use protection or men could take a vasectomy (easy and affordable) all these things need to be thought alot more to the public. It aint easy for a woman to go through an abortion and we should try as a sociecty to reduce the numbers. I stand by what I said, people need to step and take alot more responsibility for their sex life. Does anything of this means abortion should be illegal? Hell no.
Multiply what with 10?
greatest country on Earth. The muh feckin staple
Like who? America is one of, if not the most diverse country in the world. There is to archetypal American. Many parts of America are great places to live in and will always be.
depends on the State, city, town or residents. Any American City I have visited were very normal
If your position is that we can do more in terms of sex education in select cases, whilst ensuring free contraception and free access to abortion services, then that's all well and good.
I think your position starts has two assumptions I would want to challenge. First, that contraception is 100% effective. It isn't. People will get pregnant whilst using contraception and practicing safe sex. That's just going to happen. I got a vasectomy and it reversed itself. So I had to have another one. Having your vas deferens pulled through a hole and cauterised is not enjoyable. Then they had to do it again.
Second, your assumption here is that individuals are having sex as equals, which isn't the case sadly, Many, many people are trapped in coercive and controlling relationships. some people are in unhappy relationships. Many do not have the money to leave, especially given housing costs. Many are already looking after kids and so cannot get a full-time job. Sadly that's the reality.
Check out the findings from this survey: https://www.endviolenceagainstwomen...to-sexual-consent-Research-findings-FINAL.pdf
- A third (33%) of people in Britain think it isn’t usually rape if a woman is pressured into having sex but there is no physical violence
- A third of men think if a woman has flirted on a date it generally wouldn’t be rape, even if she hasn’t consented to sex (21% of women believe this). Almost a quarter (24%) don’t think that, in most cases, sex without consent in long-term relationships is rape (despite laws against rape in marriage being in place since 1991)
- Over 65s have most troubling attitudes to rape, while younger people have opinions that are more closely aligned to the law
- Some people (11%) believe the more sexual partners a woman has, the less harm they experience from rape.
- ‘Stealthing’: 40% think it is never or usually not rape to remove a condom without a partner’s consent
The year ending March 2020 Crime Survey for England and Wales (CSEW) estimated that 1.6 million adults aged 16 to 74 years had experienced sexual assault by rape or penetration (including attempts) since the age of 16 years. Analysis of the nature of these assaults uses CSEW data from the years ending March 2017 and March 2020 combined and is limited to adults aged 16 to 59 years.
https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopula...enetrationenglandandwales/yearendingmarch2020
Of victims who experienced sexual assault by rape or penetration (including attempts) since the age of 16 years:
- almost half (49%) had been a victim more than once
- fewer than one in six (16%) reported the assault to the police and of those that told someone but not the police, 40% stated embarrassment as a reason, 38% did not think the police could help, and 34% thought it would be humiliating
- more than four in ten (44%) were victimised by their partner or ex-partner
- nearly one in ten (9%) were victimised on the street, in a car park, park, or another open public space compared with over one-third (37%) in their own home
- over half (54%) said the perpetrator used physical force, such as holding them down, to make them have sex with them, and 6% said the perpetrator had threatened to kill them
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Because things change. Circumstances change, relationships change, finances change, situations change.
I had an absolutely massive reply typed out for you, as I have just watched my partner in horrific pain all afternoon after going through an abortion. No rape, no lack of responsibility, no lack of education. Nine months ago we wanted kids, in the future we might still do so, but at the moment felt like this was our most responsible option after circumstances massively changed.
I know I’m overreacting after a personal experience, sorry about that. I just think there are other things to worry about right now than how many women are getting abortions.
My best wishes to you and your partner Dan, I hope she is doing as well as possible.
And there is no need to apologise as there is no overreaction. This debate so often gets bogged down in academic discussions too often. I am grateful for you sharing.
And such a choice should be allowed nationwide in my country.
For free.
Slow down buddy, baby steps for the country governed by intellectual and moral infants.
Storm the Capitol for summat decent this time...
So taxpayer funding?
Absolutely, especially if the health, including mental health, of the mother is in any way threatened.
Stick it in the Green Deal as funding future reduction in carbon emissions, have you changed a nappy?
Thanks, genuinely appreciate that. It’s actually weird sharing the story seen as none of my friends or family know.
One thing I will say is that the whole experience has probably been one of the most overwhelming things I’ve dealt with. I can’t imagine how young women in America feel when they go to abortion clinics with protestors outside. If they even get that option
Glad you shared it and my best to you both. The anonymity of the Caf lends itself to unburdening when need presses but opportunity in life is lacking.Thanks, genuinely appreciate that. It’s actually weird sharing the story seen as none of my friends or family know.
One thing I will say is that the whole experience has probably been one of the most overwhelming things I’ve dealt with. I can’t imagine how young women in America feel when they go to abortion clinics with protestors outside. If they even get that option
Dan, honestly, sharing stuff on this place has saved my mental health a bunch of times. Sometimes you just need to say it.Thanks, genuinely appreciate that. It’s actually weird sharing the story seen as none of my friends or family know.
One thing I will say is that the whole experience has probably been one of the most overwhelming things I’ve dealt with. I can’t imagine how young women in America feel when they go to abortion clinics with protestors outside. If they even get that option