ACTUAL POLL thread - how do you feel about potential Qatari ownership?

[NLunited]

How do you know what Sheikh Jassim's views on gay and women's rights are?
Lazy stereotypes again - I guess you think these guys all ride around on camels all day too

And which of our ownership options aren't 'morally dubious'?
Fact is that there are no 'clean' billionaires, all come with some kind of baggage so for me I'm just looking at who would be the best owner for my club

It’s clear he supports or profits from slave labour and the laws are such that LGBT+ fans and women are treated badly. He is part of the ruling elite.

Not ‘morally dubious’ but behaviour of a different magnitude.

I don’t want this mysogenistic homophobic goatfecker near our club, but you think he would make a good owner

 

[NLunited]

I'm not interested in general arguments about sportswashing, I'm talking about specifics that apply to Sheikh Jassim buying Man United

There are any number of other reasons to buy our club: he's a lifelong fan who thinks he can do a better job than the current lot, vanity, profit, family legacy etc.
We are the crown jewels of sports clubs on this planet, the opportunity to buy only comes around once in a generation





You might want to have a look into the background of Elliott hedge fund - so called 'vulture capitalists' with the power to bring entire countries to their knees after buying up their bad debts

But let's say the Glazers stay as you prefer - how does that improve the human rights situation in Qatar that you seem so bothered about?

So now you are arguing we should let Qatar buy us to improve human rights there

 

[NYAS]

It’s clear he supports or profits from slave labour and the laws are such that LGBT+ fans and women are treated badly. He is part of the ruling elite.

Not ‘morally dubious’ but behaviour of a different magnitude.

I don’t want this mysogenistic homophobic goatfecker near our club, but you think he would make a good owner

Your character has been clear for some time on these forums, but that just confirms it. Nobody takes your posts seriously because you’re a racist piece of shit.

 

[Member 125398]

BarstoolProphet has summarised things pretty well - it is undeniable that HBJ's original source of wealth comes from his time as PM and 'manager' of QIA (the sovereign wealth fund of Qatar). However, it is a decade now since he left any state role and focused on his own private family office fund (Al Mirqab Capital) with private investments - Sheikh Jassim (the one bidding for Man United) himself ran this fund for many years.

My only point of discussion here had been whether Sheikh Jassim (via the family office founded by his father) has the funds to buy our club privately and my research shows that the answer is unequivocally 'YES'.
Once we can all agree on this specific point then perhaps we can move on to discuss the other topics, probably better in the other Qatar specific thread as I struggle to keep up with this megathread with so many different conversations going on.

I've shifted this here, hope this is ok.

That's a little clearer, thanks. I don't dispute in the slightest the assertion that HBJ has access to the funds you're claiming, I don't think anyone does. Where we differ is in how we assess the status of HBJ and what we really mean by his 'private' wealth. My position, at present, is that HBJ is a very senior member of the ruling family of Qatar and thus a representative of the Qatari state. I'm struggling to see a conclusive reason to seperate the two but accept that it's going to be virtually impossible to prove either way, leaving us with a kind of Schrödinger's Sheikh. For this reason, I'm quite comfortable with your assertion that the funds are there but feel that it's misleading that you're describing this as a private bid and feel it's reasonable that you draw attention to the disputed nature of that in your posts.

 

[moses]

How do you know what Sheikh Jassim's views on gay and women's rights are?
Lazy stereotypes again - I guess you think these guys all ride around on camels all day too

And which of our ownership options aren't 'morally dubious'?
Fact is that there are no 'clean' billionaires, all come with some kind of baggage so for me I'm just looking at who would be the best owner for my club

Dont be disingenuous Rood, you've been banging a Qatar drum hard since before the world cup.

I've given up engaging but I would find it hard to believe you don't have something to gain on some level considering the work you've put into pro Qatar posting over these last few months. It may be just a personal liking or preference you have but you hold it very deeply and passionately if so.

 

[Rood]

I've shifted this here, hope this is ok.

That's a little clearer, thanks. I don't dispute in the slightest the assertion that HBJ has access to the funds you're claiming, I don't think anyone does. Where we differ is in how we assess the status of HBJ and what we really mean by his 'private' wealth. My position, at present, is that HBJ is a very senior member of the ruling family of Qatar and thus a representative of the Qatari state. I'm struggling to see a conclusive reason to seperate the two but accept that it's going to be virtually impossible to prove either way, leaving us with a kind of Schrödinger's Sheikh. For this reason, I'm quite comfortable with your assertion that the funds are there but feel that it's misleading that you're describing this as a private bid and feel it's reasonable that you draw attention to the disputed nature of that in your posts.

Actually there is a major dispute about HBJ's personal wealth, despite many media articles to the contrary, the Forbes estimate of $1.2bn is constantly cited by many as proof that Sheikh Jassim cant possibly afford to buy the club without an injection of funds from the state.
I decided to do my own research into this and was pretty surprised to find just how far off that Forbes estimate might be (I reckon a minimum of 30/40 times, probably more!).

I actually have never said that its definitely a private bid, my point is just that it could be as Sheikh Jassim via his family office fund (Al Mirqab Capital) can afford to buy the club with private funds.
There are other reasons apart from money that they might choose to hide state involvement e.g. conflict with PSG.

 

[Rood]

Dont be disingenuous Rood, you've been banging a Qatar drum hard since before the world cup.

I've given up engaging but I would find it hard to believe you don't have something to gain on some level considering the work you've put into pro Qatar posting over these last few months. It may be just a personal liking or preference you have but you hold it very deeply and passionately if so.

What's disingenuous in that post? Do you think it's fair to stereotype someone because of the country they were born in?
People here are talking about murder, mysoginy, homophobia etc but Sheikh Jassim in an individual, he's not the state of Qatar and has never held any government position. If anyone has information about his political views then Id be happy to hear them and reasses accodingly.

But please do engage mate, always happy to debate the issues with you as I know whether we agree or disagree it will be done respectfully unlike like some others on here.

 

[moses]

What's disingenuous in that post? Do you think it's fair to stereotype someone because of the country they were born in?
People here are talking about murder, mysoginy, homophobia etc but Sheikh Jassim in an individual, he's not the state of Qatar and has never held any government position. If anyone has information about his political views then Id be happy to hear them and reasses accodingly.

But please do engage mate, always happy to debate the issues with you as I know whether we agree or disagree it will be done respectfully unlike like some others on here.

You know I don't give credence to racism, which is what that was, whatever about lazy stereotypes.

The disingenuous bit was the allusion to you just wanting what's best when really you have been unilaterally championing Qatar for months across two seperate issues.

However I do agree with you that there are no morally impeccable billionaires so thats why this thread is not on my to do list.

There was a report, thats the only reason I come in here.

 

[Rood]

You know I don't give credence to racism, which is what that was, whatever about lazy stereotypes.

The disingenuous bit was the allusion to you just wanting what's best when really you have been unilaterally championing Qatar for months across two seperate issues.

However I do agree with you that there are no morally impeccable billionaires so thats why this thread is not on my to do list.

There was a report, thats the only reason I come in here.

Yes I reported that post and Im glad it was acted upon - I have argued certain points that I dont agree with about the Qatari bid but I have not been championing this option, in this vote I go for 'Fine, but some reservations'.
In the other vote Im actually in the minority who went for INEOS over Qatar (although I flip flop this view on a daily basis as more info comes out) but I have major reservations about all the options while at the same time hoping for a change from the Glazers.

All options come with issues so ultimately all Im bothered about is what is best for Manchester United and if Sheikh Jassim is the only one who can commit to buy without debt, invest in the squad and redevelop the stadium then so be it.

Had a chat about ownership options on this week's podcast, feel free to have a listen - I think it is a pretty balanced summary (starts at 35:30):

 

[Nou_Camp99]

I voted option two. I won't ever stop supporting this club but I'm not happy with it.

The PL should have blocked Abu Dhabi and Saudis too. We could potentially end up with three state backed clubs who clearly don't have profits as their main objective which tells you everything about why they are really here.

It's too late now as well. Pandora's box was opened and it's impossible to put the lid back on.

 

[gulli_G]

This is my opinion, may be controversial, agree or disagree, I don't care to be honest, here goes:

https://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/foot...n=continue_reading_button#amp-readmore-target

For years the powers that be were happy with Abromovich, until not, and then the dirty laundry came out. And let's be honest, we would not have heard anything about the Qataris had they not pulled the rug from under us and won the world cup bid (however they did).

The media's holier than thou attitude and blatant racism showed its head during the world cup. Abu Dhabi = Good, Qatar = bad, let's be honest of it wasn't for the world cup bid , most people would not say anything.

Every rich billionaire has something dodgy, as does SJR, but until they are in the spotlight it will stay in back pocket. I find it funny how everyone, all of a sudden got their moral compass out and started caring about human rights using mobile phones, tablets and laptops power by lithium ion batteries (just look into that while you are at it).

Most of those bothered are only bothered because the media saying it is bad and it affects our club , tomorrow if the narrative changes so will the view.

Be honest, most people don't care about the person to their left when push comes to shove. I see all this media-fake outrage fueled by salt of losing out of the bid to host the world cup.

 

[BEST No7]

This is my opinion, may be controversial, agree or disagree indont care tbh, here goes:

https://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/foot...n=continue_reading_button#amp-readmore-target

For years the power that be were happy with Abromovich, until not and then the dirty laundry cane out. And let's be honest, we would not hear the Qataris had they not pulled the rug from under us and won the bid (however they did).

The Media's holier than thou attitude and blatant racism showed its head during the world cup. Abud Dhabi = Good, Qatar = bad, let's be honest of it wasn't for the world cup bid , most people would not say anything.

Every rich billionaire has something dodgy, as does SJR, but until they are in the spotlight it will stay in back pocket. I find it funny how everyone all of a sudden got their moral compass and started caring abouthuman rights using mobile phones, tablets and laptops power by lithium ion batteries (just look into that while you are at it.

Most of those bothered are only bothered because the media saying it is bad and it affects our club , tomorrow if the narrative changes so will the view. Be honest, most people don't care about the person to their left when push comes to shove. I see all this media-fake outrage.

I couldn't give a flying shite about wee Jimmy from back o' beyond. Not my problem. And yes Their full of shit.

 

[TheRedHearted]

I wasn’t happy the World Cup was in Qatar, why the hell would I be happy with it owning United?

 

[stevoc]

This is my opinion, may be controversial, agree or disagree, I don't care to be honest, here goes:

https://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/foot...n=continue_reading_button#amp-readmore-target

For years the powers that be were happy with Abromovich, until not, and then the dirty laundry came out. And let's be honest, we would not have heard anything about the Qataris had they not pulled the rug from under us and won the world cup bid (however they did).

The media's holier than thou attitude and blatant racism showed its head during the world cup. Abu Dhabi = Good, Qatar = bad, let's be honest of it wasn't for the world cup bid , most people would not say anything.

Every rich billionaire has something dodgy, as does SJR, but until they are in the spotlight it will stay in back pocket. I find it funny how everyone, all of a sudden got their moral compass out and started caring about human rights using mobile phones, tablets and laptops power by lithium ion batteries (just look into that while you are at it).

Most of those bothered are only bothered because the media saying it is bad and it affects our club , tomorrow if the narrative changes so will the view.

Be honest, most people don't care about the person to their left when push comes to shove. I see all this media-fake outrage fueled by salt of losing out of the bid to host the world cup.

By that tired logic you must not care about any human rights issues or any evil or injustice on the world for that matter, seeing as you are making this post via an electronic device yes?

 

[Member 125398]

This is my opinion, may be controversial, agree or disagree, I don't care to be honest, here goes:

https://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/foot...n=continue_reading_button#amp-readmore-target

For years the powers that be were happy with Abromovich, until not, and then the dirty laundry came out. And let's be honest, we would not have heard anything about the Qataris had they not pulled the rug from under us and won the world cup bid (however they did).

The media's holier than thou attitude and blatant racism showed its head during the world cup. Abu Dhabi = Good, Qatar = bad, let's be honest of it wasn't for the world cup bid , most people would not say anything.

Every rich billionaire has something dodgy, as does SJR, but until they are in the spotlight it will stay in back pocket. I find it funny how everyone, all of a sudden got their moral compass out and started caring about human rights using mobile phones, tablets and laptops power by lithium ion batteries (just look into that while you are at it).

Most of those bothered are only bothered because the media saying it is bad and it affects our club , tomorrow if the narrative changes so will the view.

Be honest, most people don't care about the person to their left when push comes to shove. I see all this media-fake outrage fueled by salt of losing out of the bid to host the world cup.

I think a lot of the issues with the World Cup were that the exploitation of migrant labour was used to build the stadium, thus there was a direct link between the two. It's fine that you take an nihilistic stance on these issues but projecting it onto others when you don't know their views on other issues is a little odd. Why would people be discussing batteries on a thread about Qatar buying United?

 

[7even]

I support the bid from Qatar because I think it’s the best for us both short and long term.

This new cancel culture and liberal HS is not my cup of tea.

 

[Wumminator]

I support the bid from Qatar because I think it’s the best for us both short and long term.

This new cancel culture and liberal HS is not my cup of tea.

liberal HS?

what is hs?

 

[colombianmancunian]

This is my opinion, may be controversial, agree or disagree, I don't care to be honest, here goes:

https://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/foot...n=continue_reading_button#amp-readmore-target

For years the powers that be were happy with Abromovich, until not, and then the dirty laundry came out. And let's be honest, we would not have heard anything about the Qataris had they not pulled the rug from under us and won the world cup bid (however they did).

The media's holier than thou attitude and blatant racism showed its head during the world cup. Abu Dhabi = Good, Qatar = bad, let's be honest of it wasn't for the world cup bid , most people would not say anything.

Every rich billionaire has something dodgy, as does SJR, but until they are in the spotlight it will stay in back pocket. I find it funny how everyone, all of a sudden got their moral compass out and started caring about human rights using mobile phones, tablets and laptops power by lithium ion batteries (just look into that while you are at it).

Most of those bothered are only bothered because the media saying it is bad and it affects our club , tomorrow if the narrative changes so will the view.

Be honest, most people don't care about the person to their left when push comes to shove. I see all this media-fake outrage fueled by salt of losing out of the bid to host the world cup.

Totally agree with you. Most people are hypocrites who like to pretend they are the moral superiors. If you care so much for human rights, the leave your job, and go join a charitable organization that works on them.

Come on Qatar, please buy us and purge us of those moralist liberal crybabies.

 

[Wibble]

Totally agree with you. Most people are hypocrites who like to pretend they are the moral superiors. If you care so much for human rights, the leave your job, and go join a charitable organization that works on them.

Come on Qatar, please pens us and purge us of those moralist liberal crybabies.

A sensible as the "love it or leave" brigade.

Why would you only be allowed to disapprove of something as important as human rights if you followed your franky ludicrous instructions? Most people can hold valid opinions even if they can't afford to quit their job. Such a silly thing to say.

 

[Wumminator]

Totally agree with you. Most people are hypocrites who like to pretend they are the moral superiors. If you care so much for human rights, the leave your job, and go join a charitable organization that works on them.

Come on Qatar, please pens us and purge us of those moralist liberal crybabies.

LOVE the warning at the top. Thank you mods.

 

[mitchmouse]

You'd think this Tory government would like someone who is said to have not quite followed the rules...

https://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/news/man-utd-sheikh-jassim-takeover-29625666

 

[Rood]

You'd think this Tory government would like someone who is said to have not quite followed the rules...

https://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/news/man-utd-sheikh-jassim-takeover-29625666

Typical clickbait headline - once you read the details it's clear that this will not be any threat to the bid whatsoever

Does however highlight Sheikh Jassim's strong links with financial institutions, I assume some will be involved in the bid

 

[Señor Sloppy]

Totally agree with you. Most people are hypocrites who like to pretend they are the moral superiors. If you care so much for human rights, the leave your job, and go join a charitable organization that works on them.

Come on Qatar, please buy us and purge us of those moralist liberal crybabies.

I agree with some of this sentiment, namely that it's likely the majority of those who are against this takeover:

• Rarely if ever gave a second thought to the Middle East's human rights situation before these rumours
• Rarely if ever will give a second thought to the Middle East's human rights situation if these rumours don't come to fruition

Being against the takeover of Manchester United by a state such as Qatar is in itself is an understandable position to hold. However, the unproductive throw-it-over-the-fence-to-keep-it-out-of-my-eyeline attitude that generally accompanies it is not possible to respect.

 

[colombianmancunian]

LOVE the warning at the top. Thank you mods.

LOVE the warning at the top. Thank you mods.

Says the xenophobic bigot who thinks foreign fans such as myself are second rate fans; and who arrogantly says only British people are allowed to own United.

Sorry for not being a fake humble lefty, and for wanting the better owner for our club (am I even allowed to call United our club, according to your bigotry?)

 

[stevoc]

Oh dear the dummy's out again.

 

[Wumminator]

Says the xenophobic bigot who thinks foreign fans such as myself are second rate fans; and who arrogantly says only British people are allowed to own United.

Sorry for not being a fake humble lefty, and for wanting the better owner for our club (am I even allowed to call United our club, according to your bigotry?)

I will be reporting any post that labels me xenophobic for no reason.

 

[Jippy]

Totally agree with you. Most people are hypocrites who like to pretend they are the moral superiors. If you care so much for human rights, the leave your job, and go join a charitable organization that works on them.

Come on Qatar, please buy us and purge us of those moralist liberal crybabies.

Says the xenophobic bigot who thinks foreign fans such as myself are second rate fans; and who arrogantly says only British people are allowed to own United.

Sorry for not being a fake humble lefty, and for wanting the better owner for our club (am I even allowed to call United our club, according to your bigotry?)

Can we avoid the puerile insults please.

United's ownership is apparently the latest battleground in the culture wars.

 

[Wumminator]

Opposition fans every week: “We support our local team.”

RedCafe posters: “fecking xenophobic bigots”

 

[Wumminator]

Can we avoid the puerile insults please.

United's ownership is apparently the latest battleground in the culture wars.

Are we allowed to call people bigots now btw Jippy? No warnings for posts like that?

If so, I’ll keep that in mind.

 

[Jippy]

Are we allowed to call people bigots now btw Jippy? No warnings for posts like that?

If so, I’ll keep that in mind.

I don't know really know the context of it all tbh - I've been on hols and don't have time to read right back through this thread because I'm at work. It's best looked at by a mod who's been following these threads more closely.

 

[Dan_F]

Are we allowed to call people bigots now btw Jippy? No warnings for posts like that?

If so, I’ll keep that in mind.

I was effectively called racist previously and nothing happened when I reported it, so I’ll just fire back next time.

 

[Wumminator]

I don't know really know the context of it all tbh - I've been on hols and don't have time to read right back through this thread because I'm at work. It's best looked at by a mod who's been following these threads more closely.

well feck off and don’t go on holidays next time - you’re a RedCafe mod - you don’t have time for travel.

 

[mitchmouse]

I agree with some of this sentiment, namely that it's likely the majority of those who are against this takeover:

• Rarely if ever gave a second thought to the Middle East's human rights situation before these rumours
• Rarely if ever will give a second thought to the Middle East's human rights situation if these rumours don't come to fruition

Being against the takeover of Manchester United by a state such as Qatar is in itself is an understandable position to hold. However, the unproductive throw-it-over-the-fence-to-keep-it-out-of-my-eyeline attitude that generally accompanies it is not possible to respect.

that said, what's also not acceptable is what someone would have against being liberal (not you, the original poster). To misquote (slightly) The West Wing: "I'd pick up that title and wear it as a badge of honour"

 

[Andycoleno9]

I will be reporting any post that labels me xenophobic for no reason.

Why do you even care how second rate, less important fans call you?

 

[red.knight]

For United to have a brighter future, the best option would be a complete sale to a (very) wealthy group, but a nightmare scenario for United fans remains in play: the family that loaded £600m of debt on the club when they took over in 2005 - with only £35m coming off since - staying in charge for the foreseeable future.

 

[MancunianAngels]

For United to have a brighter future, the best option would be a complete sale to a (very) wealthy group

Says who?

Totally agree with you. Most people are hypocrites who like to pretend they are the moral superiors. If you care so much for human rights, the leave your job, and go join a charitable organization that works on them.

Come on Qatar, please buy us and purge us of those moralist liberal crybabies.

Hard to believe we've gone from the days of IMUSA and Red Issue protesting against Rupert Murdoch buying the club to people wanting the Qatari state to buy the club just to annoy the Libs.

 

[red.knight]

Says who?

That’s according to my opinion.

Apart serially cheating for ten years in their bookkeeping, when you look at what the owners of Man City have done for the club and the stadium environs, frankly it would be difficult to criticize them. Over the last 15 years I would have been quite happy if the Glazers had run United the same way that Abu Dhabi has done things at Man City. The Glazers are the greediest owners in the history of all sports. They have milked the club for so many years and they have burnt a beautiful football institution to the ground with all of us watching... 1 Carabao cup in 6 years for a club of United stature? They have to sell because the club needs a huge amount of work both on and off the pitch and now they have run out of ideas of how to milk the club, they are done, success under EtH is all they can cling on to but without a large transfer kitty to keep up with City and Chelsea then that will fail as well. I have a feeling that the bid from Sheikh Jassim will probably win and although that would not be my first choice, I am honestly not sure that it would be a bad thing for the club and its fan base.

What do you think is the best for United’s future?

 

[Wumminator]

Says who?



Hard to believe we've gone from the days of IMUSA and Red Issue protesting against Rupert Murdoch buying the club to people wanting the Qatari state to buy the club just to annoy the Libs.

TBF - very different set of fans.

 

[pacifictheme]

Newbie system failing again.

 

[Fridge chutney]

I will be reporting any post that labels me xenophobic for no reason.

He's just touchy because his liberal-slaying hero Trump is in a bit of hot water right now.