Adnan Januzaj | Sunderland Loan Watch

[Regulus Arcturus Black]

Well yeah you did. King is scoring goals so there's no excuse for Adnan. That was your point.

Completely leaving out that King has three years more football under his belt. That he couldn't have scored 15 goals when he was Adnans age.

As for using Keane. It's Roy fecking Keane.

Yup you're definitely an odd one, and you have a bizarre impulse to create strawmen arguments.

No-one is suggesting King should be getting games for United next season, this discussion started with a poster suggesting Adnan should be brought back and should get some games next season. The same poster said he had no chance to do anything at Sunderland as they are so poor, which is nonsense, of course. Plenty of examples have been given of players doing very well in strugglig sides (not least our very own Pereira) but you're obsessed by the King example. Fact is, any player ready to play games for United should be able to do much more at a club like Sunderland than Adnan has done this season.

But do carry on fella.

 

[Dobbs]

Yup you're definitely an odd one, and you have a bizarre impulse to create strawmen arguments.

No-one is suggesting King should be getting games for United next season, this discussion started with a poster suggesting Adnan should be brought back and should get some games next season. The same poster said he had no chance to do anything at Sunderland as they are so poor, which is nonsense, of course. Plenty of example have been given of players doing very well in strugglign sides (not least our very own Pereira). Any player ready to play games for United should be able to do much more at a club like Sunderland than Adnan has done this season.

But do carry on fella.

You accuse other posters of this so often. I'm now sure you don't really know what it means.

There's also plenty of examples of inexperienced players struggling in poor sides who went on to very good things. Not everybody is Giggs or Keane.........or Josh King.

 

[Regulus Arcturus Black]

There's also plenty of examples of inexperienced players struggling in poor sides who went on to very good things. Not everybody is Giggs or Keane.........or Josh King.

Then you should offer some examples, it would add much more to the debate than your bizarre obsession with fixating on one point that you have misunderstood by not reading back in the thread.

 

[Regulus Arcturus Black]

You accuse other posters of this so often. I'm now sure you don't really know what it means.

No Dobbs, I accuse you of it often because it's exactly what you do, you refute an argument that was not advanced in the first place.


For example, you claim I argued Adnan should be doing brilliant at Sunderland because King is scoring at Bournemouth. When in fact, I argued that good players will shine even in poor sides and used a host of examples of this.

So instead of attacking the strawman, add to the debate by giving some examples of top talents struggling in poor sides. We'll make a good poster out of you yet Dobbs.

 

[KN5]

Januzaj is more talented by Lindgard. But often only talent is not enough. He doesn't have the right attitude for a top club.

Not only does he not have the attitude, he doesn't have the fight, love or passion for a top club, Lingard puts it all out on the pitch more often than not and you can tell he's ready to play on a broken leg for the club, Januzaj, don't even think he's willing to get out of bed for the club tbh.

I agree he appears to have an attitude problem and hasn't done much to deserve another chance. My original point was that I think he could become an excellent player despite the past three years. He shouldn't have been given the number eleven shirt and shouldn't have been given the massive pay rise; neither of those are his fault though.

Some players are an instant success and some don't kick on until their mid-twenties. In my opinion Januzaj will at some point in the next year or two have a sudden burst of progression and everyone will be raving about him like they did in his season under Moyes. This is just my opinion and if in two years time this hasn't happened please call me out on it.

I agree, 3 years don't define such a young players career, especially if he has previously shown how good he can be, under Moyes when he was beating people off the dribble. However, unless he changes his attitude and work ethic he won't get much better. Either his attitude is normally like that or he just doesn't like United, Dortmund and Sunderland so he isn't willing to try, either way he needs to go somewhere new, personally I feel like he should drop to the championship and show everyone what he has there, or maybe Ligue 1.

 

[RedDevilCanuck]

Hmmmm....

Paul Scholes, David Beckham, Ryan Giggs.

But yeah, Adnan had the best technique. Der feck.

I never saw them fresh out of the academy. I worded it wrong.

 

[Dobbs]

No Dobbs, I accuse you of it often because it's exactly what you do, you refute an argument that was not advanced in the first place.


For example, you claim I argued Adnan should be doing brilliant at Sunderland because King is scoring at Bournemouth. When in fact, I argued that good players will shine even in poor sides and used a host of examples of this.

So instead of attacking the strawman, add to the debate by giving some examples of top talents struggling in poor sides. We'll make a good poster out of you yet Dobbs.

The crux of our problem and something I've mentioned before, you just don't read posts properly. Nowhere have I claimed you hold the opinion Januzaj should be brilliant at Sunderland. If I did quote the post.

This is really simple. When you bring up King doing well for Bournemouth what are you saying about Adnan?

 

[KN5]

The crux of our problem and something I've mentioned before, you just don't read posts properly. Nowhere have I claimed you hold the opinion Januzaj should be brilliant at Sunderland. If I did quote the post.

This is really simple. When you bring up King doing well for Bournemouth what are you saying about Adnan?

Even if you didn't say it, I am saying it, he should have been brilliant at Sunderland especially after failing at United and Dortmund, going to a bad team with a proven goalscorer ahead of him really should have been simple enough for him, if he is infact good enough for a side like United.

 

[Dobbs]

Not only does he not have the attitude, he doesn't have the fight, love or passion for a top club, Lingard puts it all out on the pitch more often than not and you can tell he's ready to play on a broken leg for the club, Januzaj, don't even think he's willing to get out of bed for the club tbh.


I agree, 3 years don't define such a young players career, especially if he has previously shown how good he can be, under Moyes when he was beating people off the dribble. However, unless he changes his attitude and work ethic he won't get much better. Either his attitude is normally like that or he just doesn't like United, Dortmund and Sunderland so he isn't willing to try, either way he needs to go somewhere new, personally I feel like he should drop to the championship and show everyone what he has there, or maybe Ligue 1.

I think the big mistake after the Dortmund debacle was thinking Moyes was the key to getting Adnan performing. The same Moyes who this forum has decided is the worst human being of all time. To get him back under the tutelage of Moyes we sent him to the worst club in the league and I mean club. Not just the worst team but an environment that seems to be poison to almost everyone who touches it.

Januzaj and his people are part of that decision making so it's on them as well.

 

[Dobbs]

Even if you didn't say it, I am saying it, he should have been brilliant at Sunderland especially after failing at United and Dortmund, going to a bad team with a proven goalscorer ahead of him really should have been simple enough for him, if he is infact good enough for a side like United.

No mate I've been accused of saying somebody else said it. Sounds complicated right? That's where debating with Regulus take you.

I think everybody agrees it's almost a miracle an experienced guy like Defoe has done so well for Sunderland. So it's a massive ask to expect an inexperienced player whose had very little football for the previous two seasons to be brilliant. That said I think he should have done more.

 

[Regulus Arcturus Black]

The crux of our problem and something I've mentioned before, you just don't read posts properly. Nowhere have I claimed you hold the opinion Januzaj should be brilliant at Sunderland. If I did quote the post.

It just doesn't make sense to say look at King scoring goals for Bournemouth, that definitely proves Januzaj should be performing for Sunderland.

Which was never my argument, my argument was that playing in a struggling side is no excuse. King, Defoe, Snodgrass, Pereira & hundreds of other players have shined playing for poor sides.

And for the final time, this started because a poster claimed he should be back at United next season & get chances because he couldn't do anything in such a poor Sunderland side. I refuted that argument, you on the other hand have gone off in a World of your own and have offered zero to the debate as usual.

 

[Regulus Arcturus Black]

That said I think he should have done more.

You do do you?

And I take it you also think that he should have done plenty more if he was to prove that he deserves to stay at United next season and get games?

 

[Dobbs]

Which was never my argument, my argument was that playing in a struggling side is no excuse.

Which is exactly how I characterised your argument. So please stop claiming I'm distorting your argument. I even used the exact same wording when explaining your position. See below.

Well yeah you did. King is scoring goals so there's no excuse for Adnan. That was your point.

Also I'm still waiting for this post where I claimed you think Adnan should be "brilliant" at Sunderland. Where is it?

 

[Regulus Arcturus Black]

Answer the above @Dobbs, we'll finally get you to engage in the debate and move this thread on.

 

[Dobbs]

Answer the above @Dobbs, we'll finally get you to engage in the debate and move this thread on.

This must be painful to read. I'll leave it there with yourself.

 

[dirkey]

I wonder how much we would get for him in the Summer?

8-10 million abroad

15-20 in England I'd guess

Haaaaaaaaa! We'll get about 5 tops.

 

[Ji_Maria]

I have given everyone else a serious reply but if you're going to come out with nonsense like that then I will leave you to it.

Please do read the match threads for 2014-15. Literally everyone calling him the worst player on the pitch in every single game he played for us. Mind you I am not a alking about 2013-14, where he put him some good performances (nowhere near United standard, but that season was a pile of shite).

But yeah, blame LVG for that I guess.

 

[Acole9]

Haaaaaaaaa! We'll get about 5 tops.

I'll be more than happy if we get that.

 

[Insanity]

It's sad how his career hasn't taken off since he burst on to the scene. Saw him lot for the reserves and for me he was the most talented player from the academy since Ravel. He clearly has the talent, anyone saying otherwise needs to give their heads a wobble. He showed guile, vision, passing, trickery in his brief stint. I thought he was destined to become a great player for us.

Attitude or what not, young players can lose direction. Our own turmoil hasn't helped him a lot. With a year remaining on the deal, think it'll be wise to sell him with a buy back clause. Still believe he can thrive in the right environment; given that he is ready to work hard.

 

[POF]

I remember the concern that PSG were going to sign him for big money. For a player with Adnan's temperament that big money contract he got to ward them off may have been the worst thing possible for his development.

 

[SecondFig]

Haaaaaaaaa! We'll get about 5 tops.

Yeah, we'd only get c.10m if he was going to another big club. If he goes to a Palace/Newcastle/Burnley/Stoke/WBA he'll go for a few million, we'd be lucky to get c.6m.
But honestly, based on this season he's not shown he could be a starter for any of those - he's too lightweight, too inconsistent. He's got the ability to be bloody good, but his attitude needs to change - his last chance at this point is to find a manager who can sort him out, hate to say it but I'd almost say his best shot would be someone like Allardyce.

 

[el3mel]

Tbh I can't find any future for him with us. He'll get sold permanently this summer I reckon.

 

[manunited1919]

I just wish Pereira or perhaps SAFs last signing would have got even half the chances Januzaj has had at United. LVG gave him many chances, and invariably he would come innand try to dribble his way into the goal, with little or no intelligence. It's time to move him along and give chances to those who will put their head down and work for the team.

 

[Marcelinho87]

Wish we had sold him on the false promise he showed when PSG were sniffing around, bet we could have got £40m in hindsight.

 

[Taxx]

Is there absolutely no possibility that Mourinho can rejuvenate him somewhat? I'm not that sad on him going, but if he could reach a Lingard-level of performances, that'd at least give him a position as a squad player. He's not even at that level anyway, sadly.

 

[Lawman]

Is there absolutely no possibility that Mourinho can rejuvenate him somewhat? I'm not that sad on him going, but if he could reach a Lingard-level of performances, that'd at least give him a position as a squad player. He's not even at that level anyway, sadly.

He's not deserved another shot with his performances unfortunately plus one Lingard level is enough.

 

[pacifictheme]

Is there absolutely no possibility that Mourinho can rejuvenate him somewhat? I'm not that sad on him going, but if he could reach a Lingard-level of performances, that'd at least give him a position as a squad player. He's not even at that level anyway, sadly.

I don't see it. Lingard is clearly limited but a strength of his seems to be that he really cares. It gets that extra level of performance out of him.

I've heard too many people (including sean goss) say his attitude is shit. I don't see him reaching even lingards level anymore.

 

[Classical Mechanic]

He seems the exact opposite of a player that Mourinho would like to work with.

 

[RedRonaldo]

So he has failed under 4 manager in 3 clubs now, any hope for him to turn it around in future?

 

[golden_blunder]

Lingard is twice his level at least, currently

 

[Zlatattack]

If we do sell him we should put in a buy back clause. He might come good at some point.
.

 

[Ji_Maria]

I agree, 3 years don't define such a young players career, especially if he has previously shown how good he can be, under Moyes when he was beating people off the dribble. However, unless he changes his attitude and work ethic he won't get much better. Either his attitude is normally like that or he just doesn't like United, Dortmund and Sunderland so he isn't willing to try, either way he needs to go somewhere new, personally I feel like he should drop to the championship and show everyone what he has there, or maybe Ligue 1.

Mate, he did not show how good he can be. He had flashes of talent that showed promise under Moyes, but he certainly never ever set a single game alight like Martial or Rashford. Remeber we finished in 7th that season...hardly a good result. It was a bunch of hype that he ran past a defender, when in most games he led in being dispossesed and low pass accuracy. He might do a good dribble but one minite later he would run at defenders and break up a good attack.

And you forgot to mention even his National team coach criticized his attitude. Two leagues, his Nation and four teams he has failed at.

 

[Robbie Boy]

What a monumental disappointment this lad has turned out to be.

 

[Revan]

So he has failed under 4 manager in 3 clubs now, any hope for him to turn it around in future?

Very unlikely that he'll ever return. Since his breaking year (where to be fair, it wasn't that he was a brilliant player, more a brilliant young player playing for a shit team), he hasn't done good playing under three managers for three different teams. By all accounts, his attitude stinks and he has an inflated opinion of himself (that might also be on his father who started the circus of choosing a national team to play with).

He won't be here next season, Lingard and Pereira will. Lingard isn't as talented as him, but gives always 100% and so is a better player. Pereira is both more talented and more dedicated.

 

[Sassy Colin]

Very unlikely that he'll ever return. Since his breaking year (where to be fair, it wasn't that he was a brilliant player, more a brilliant young player playing for a shit team), he hasn't done good playing under three managers for three different teams. By all accounts, his attitude stinks and he has an inflated opinion of himself (that might also be on his father who started the circus of choosing a national team to play with).

He won't be here next season, Lingard and Pereira will. Lingard isn't as talented as him, but gives always 100% and so is a better player. Pereira is both more talented and more dedicated.

Which is what he should have been showing at Sunderland, then we would be having a totally different kind of debate.

 

[KN5]

Mate, he did not show how good he can be. He had flashes of talent that showed promise under Moyes, but he certainly never ever set a single game alight like Martial or Rashford. Remeber we finished in 7th that season...hardly a good result. It was a bunch of hype that he ran past a defender, when in most games he led in being dispossesed and low pass accuracy. He might do a good dribble but one minite later he would run at defenders and break up a good attack.

And you forgot to mention even his National team coach criticized his attitude. Two leagues, his Nation and four teams he has failed at.

There we go then, should be gone 100%.