Is there a limit on how many players can be in a group of the best midfielders in the world?
Alas poor Carrick...WTF has happened?
- Thread starter Carl
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik @Rood and Imran @Annihilate Now! start with the good news by celebrating Manchester United Women's emphatic FA Cup win over Spurs at Wembley and the future of manager Marc Skinner.
Then it's the bad news and the ever worsening form of our Men with losses to Arsenal and Palace.
Finally the main debate - ETH Out now or keep him until the end of the season - if not longer. Are you Team Nik or Team Imran?
It's taken him some time again. I thought his early season performances were a bit laboured. A gradual improvement and he's grown into the season again. I'd say he's been one of our best performers over the last 8-10 weeks.
He's a bit of a diesel player, in that he usually takes a few games to really get into a season. But once he's in the groove, he's very consistent throughout the rest of the season.
I think he's been brilliant for a few months now, backpass against Southampton aside. Classy player and a key cog in our midfield.
Agree, it isn't that big a compliment to say he's been the best midfielder. If I was going to praise Carrick that wouldn't be the route I'd choose.
All judgement on where he fits in the midfield ranking shoud be reserved until we come up against some real quality.
Lots of people starting to come around, people who would fume at him in previous seasons now seem to like him, and realise that he is vital to any success we obtain this season.
To be fair his first few games of the season I think was switching from midfield to defence again so I think it was always going to take a few weeks to play himself into top form. Having a great season so far.
Just hope he is ready to handle the pressing Madrid are going to be doing on Wednesday. It's his kryptonite and him, the team and the manager need to have a game plan to help him out.
Since 1992, FWA Footballer of the Year have 11 winners from London based teams, and only 6 from United; even though we've won the league 12 times during that period (and came 2nd 4 times).
Ruud van Nistelrooy, perhaps the best striker we've ever had, 3 times CL top-goalscorer, 1 time Golden Boot, scoring 36, 44, and 30 goals on his first 3 seasons with us, has never won even once FWA Footballer of the Year.
Maybe they should fix that microscope and radar.
Actually the stats* show Carrick in only the top 10 of passes per game. 76.4
He doesn't make it into any of the top 20 in the other statistics such as assists, 'key passes', completions, crosses, long balls, through balls.
Not having a go - just saying. Effectiveness has been there this year while his stats generally have not been as good as you would think. But that is just on paper. Defensively he doesn't appear in any of the top 20 for anything.
*Whoscored stats can not always be right..
I think his effectiveness in our attacks this season is there to be seen. Perhaps he isn't the final passer or the scorer very often, but he's instigating more attacks with a much higher volume of his passes often in towards the forwards, as opposed to last season where our most frequent combo in games was Carrick to Scholes.
I don't want to go RAWK-like and pull out and 'assister to the assister', but he's often involved in playing that significant pass into a Rooney/van Persie in a lot of our goals. It's not something the stats will ever pick up, and thus won't ever become meaningful to most people but the fact is, he's upped the risk element in his play and is getting more involved in the game as a whole.
Can't wait to see how he fares against Madrid, though the legs of Cleverley and Rooney are going to be so vital. I can't imagine him having the highest pass completion or assists stats, in fact I can imagine a City-like display with a 70-80% pass completion, a shit load of tackles/interceptions and clearances but still coming out looking like one of the top 3 MOTMs.
But while a lot of us are ready to keep and eye on Carrick in Madrid, Alonso has a big role for Madrid too. His form hasn't been all that this season, and he'll have to contribute to shutting out Cleverley (assuming he plays), RVP and Rooney running around all over the place.
If anyone still wonders how important Carrick is in SAF's estimation just look at who was one of the few strong players rested for the Everton match...
SAF wants a fully fit fully functioning well rested Carrick for Madrid.... Get in
!!
SAF wants a fully fit fully functioning well rested Carrick for Madrid.... Get in
!!Anyone else thought he was very good in the second half. Average in first half and very, very good in the second half.
He really stepped it up in the second half. Took more chances on the ball, looked more comfortable on the ball and like everyone else was willing to stick his boot on anything.
You knew nothing would go straight through the middle for them once he got going.
Pace slowed down and it suited him.
Yeah he had a good second half, which was impressive considering he was basically the only player we had in midfield.
Sounds like an ordinary day in the life of Michael Carrick.
Harsh on Cleverley.
I thought he was great tonight, especially in the second half. That pass to Evra could have done with a fraction more but it was great vision. As it was it was sufficient to put him through but Varane was close enough to make contact.
I thought both he and Rio showed incredible maturity.
I thought both he and Rio showed incredible maturity.
Aye. The first half was reminiscent of playing Barca, their tempo had him annoymous. The second half, as you say, slowed down in pace considerably and he was effective. I am not sure if I would say that he had a good game overall as he was kind of exposed in the first half.
Take a fecking bow Michael Carrick. I thought he was fantastic in midfield yesterday, especially in the second half. It's quite amazing that he's not a regular in the England team because he's easily one of the top 3 midfielders in the Premier League at this moment.
I completely agree, I thought the same thing about the Barca games, he just wasn't really there in midfield, though he made some good blocks in defence.
Good game for him. Largely ran the Midfield on his own with Jones largely being more a defensive covers. He provided decent link up between attack and defence. Though for large portions of the game we did largely bi-pass the midfield and try and put in long balls to exploit Madrids high line. Had a few very nice turns to get himself out of trouble and enough time to release a player.
Did brilliantly considering he was our effectively our only midfielder. Hopefully we'll be able to play Cleverley at OT and try and play a bit more, as it's a shame to limit a player as good as Carrick to the sort of job he had to do in the first half.
He did his job splendidly.
Aye, Cleverley for Kagawa might be a good change for OT..
He was the only one who could create a bit of space and bring our ball forward. Didnt like that he was the only one in midfield though, just too much space for RM.
Really liked some of Michael's turns under pressure last night. I thought he had a lot of responsibility last night, what with Phil Jones' limitations as a passer, effectively having the midfield on his back and he came through it well. Apart from in the first half when we let Madrid play 20-30 yards from our goal Carrick held his own. Pleased.
Yes his turns away from RM players under pressure were a highlight for us - he's having an excellent season, good on him, he's taken a lot of unfair stick IMHO
I don't think there is a more responsible player in the world in his position.
When? When he was playing, um, poorly?
He was the Caf's favourite scapegoat around 2010/11. Funny how times change, even the media seem to have finally picked up on his importance to the current Utd side.
If you re-watch the game you will see that Madrid in the first half did to Carrick the same thing that we did to Alonso in the second half. High pressure and closed down quickly.
I could not believe they afforded him more space in the second half. We played over the top all first half because Carrick could not link midfield with attack. Mourinho has seen plenty of us and knows that Carrick is the central cog in our buildup play. I think he made a mistake relaxing the pressure on Carrick in the second half - it definitely gave us a foothold.
I could not believe they afforded him more space in the second half. We played over the top all first half because Carrick could not link midfield with attack. Mourinho has seen plenty of us and knows that Carrick is the central cog in our buildup play. I think he made a mistake relaxing the pressure on Carrick in the second half - it definitely gave us a foothold.
I watched a recorded game, after knowing the result and reading comments in the Caf. So, I had these premeditated pictures of how each players performed. It's refreshing because you then knew which posters had good assessment on players (based on my personal analyses, of course).
About Carrick, I agree that he was fairly limited on first half. I think that's because diMaria and Coentrao on the wings (and Ronaldo) stretching our DM's (Jones and Carrick). It's because one of them had to help our fullbacks who didn't really good at defending one on one.
Jones was the busiest one, and that left Carrick alone in midfield. Unfortunately, Kagawa and Rooney were not very good at closing down (as expected), and Carrick wasn't that mobile. That gave di Maria and Ozil (and Benzema who loved to drop deep), who were floating on his zone, plenty of time to pinging one two or shoot from distance. Then you have the energetic Khadeira who also loved to venture forward.
THat's the times where de Gea earned his cookies.
Then the second half started with the same vibe, right until diMaria was subbed. It's a weird tactical sub one. First, because diMaria had a very good game; second, Ozil was knackered, and diMaria could help taking the pressure as creative force in the final third. Since then, our DMs had much more time to stay in midfield, thus Carrick could dictating the tempo better.
About Carrick, I agree that he was fairly limited on first half. I think that's because diMaria and Coentrao on the wings (and Ronaldo) stretching our DM's (Jones and Carrick). It's because one of them had to help our fullbacks who didn't really good at defending one on one.
Jones was the busiest one, and that left Carrick alone in midfield. Unfortunately, Kagawa and Rooney were not very good at closing down (as expected), and Carrick wasn't that mobile. That gave di Maria and Ozil (and Benzema who loved to drop deep), who were floating on his zone, plenty of time to pinging one two or shoot from distance. Then you have the energetic Khadeira who also loved to venture forward.
THat's the times where de Gea earned his cookies.
Then the second half started with the same vibe, right until diMaria was subbed. It's a weird tactical sub one. First, because diMaria had a very good game; second, Ozil was knackered, and diMaria could help taking the pressure as creative force in the final third. Since then, our DMs had much more time to stay in midfield, thus Carrick could dictating the tempo better.
When some people went overboard when perhaps he wasn't playing as well.
fecking excellent today, liked the new chant too.
The away fans sounded great on TV.
QPR's passing was so loose in midfield. He just continued to sweep up possession all game for us and played some superb passes forward.
We need to hear more of that chant as well. He deserves it.
His short passing under pressure is really world class. He just doesn't seem to be fazed by opposition players rushing towards him in close spaces.
Terrific again today. Defended well and was controlling the tempo. I hope we give him a rest before the big match against madrid. He is going to be critical to our success.