Alec Baldwin fatally shoots woman with prop gun on movie set

calodo2003

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It's entirely possible that he didn't. A period correct revolver would have a single action trigger, (someone clarified that it was SA above) which can easily be activated when drawing from a holster, moreso if the trigger has had any modifications to reduce the length of pull/amount of pressure required. Assuming that Baldwin was doing a cross draw (i.e. weapon holstered on the left and drawn with the right hand) it's possible that he neither pulled the trigger nor aimed the firearm at anyone intentionally. Based on when an accidental discharge like that would typically happen (i.e. just as the gun comes out of the holster), it's feasible that Ms. Hutchins was at 7 or 8 o'clock position in relation to Baldwin.
Got a pic of such a period correct revolver?
 

Brophs

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Just in case that's not a joke: I would imagine he's saying the gun fired without him deliberately pulling the trigger. Not that he's being framed. :lol:
I prefer to believe it was some sort of free-for-all firefight on the set of this C list movie and right now they’re busy tying up thousands of little red strings to show the trajectory of each bullet, while Alec Baldwin has “Phew. Totally got away with one there” saved in his drafts.
 

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It's entirely possible that he didn't. A period correct revolver would have a single action trigger, (someone clarified that it was SA above) which can easily be activated when drawing from a holster, moreso if the trigger has had any modifications to reduce the length of pull/amount of pressure required. Assuming that Baldwin was doing a cross draw (i.e. weapon holstered on the left and drawn with the right hand) it's possible that he neither pulled the trigger nor aimed the firearm at anyone intentionally. Based on when an accidental discharge like that would typically happen (i.e. just as the gun comes out of the holster), it's feasible that Ms. Hutchins was at 7 or 8 o'clock position in relation to Baldwin.
Just watched that part of the interview, the idiot is saying he didn't pull the trigger, but pulled and released the hammer, as if that's completely unrelated :houllier: How can he not understand basic revolver operation, and be cleared to use firearms on set??
 

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Recalling the "marking rehearsal" - during which the cinematographer was showing him where to point the weapon - the actor said that the film's first assistant director, Dave Halls, handed him a revolver and told him "this is a cold gun" - an industry term meaning it was either empty or loaded with dummy rounds.

Ms Hutchins was instructing him on where and how to hold the weapon, "which ended up being aimed right below her armpit", he said.

Baldwin said he needed to cock the gun but not fire it in order to get the shot they needed.

"I cock the gun," he said. "I go, 'Can you see that? Can you see that? Can you see that?' And then I let go of the hammer of the gun, and the gun goes off."
During the interview, Baldwin was played a clip of George Clooney speaking about handling guns on set, in which he said: "Every single time I'm handed a gun on a set, every time, they hand me a gun, I look at it, I open it, I show it to the person I'm pointing it to, we show it to the crew. Every single take. You hand it back to the armourer when you're done, you do it again. Everyone does it. Everybody knows it."

Baldwin responded: "Well, there were a lot of people who felt it necessary to contribute some comment to the situation, which really didn't help the situation - at all. But you... if your protocols, you check the gun every time, well good for you. Good for you. You know, I probably handled weapons as much as any other actor in films... and in that time, I had a protocol and it never let me down."

The star said he was taught when he was younger that crew members "don't want the actor to be the last line of defence against a catastrophic breach of safety with the gun".

He said that "when that person who was charged with that job, handed me the weapon, I trusted them... In the 40 years I've been in this business all the way up until that day, I've never had a problem."
While Baldwin said he "would go to any lengths to undo what happened", when asked if he felt guilt over Ms Hutchins' death, he replied: "No. No. I feel that... someone is responsible for what happened, and I can't say who that is, but I know it's not me.

"Honest to God, if I felt that I was responsible, I might've killed myself if I thought that I was responsible. And I don't say that lightly."

Baldwin, along with other producers, has had two civil lawsuits filed against him by Rust crew members. Police investigations are ongoing, and no criminal charges have been made.

Baldwin says he was told the gun was "safe" by other crew members in charge of checking weapons, and that he does not believe he will face criminal charges. He said he has "nothing to hide".

"I've been told by people in the know... that it is highly unlikely I would be charged with anything criminally," he said.
Asked by Stephanopoulos whether the cost-cutting compromised safety, Baldwin said: "In my opinion, no... I personally did not observe any safety or security issues at all in the time I was there."
 

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He’s probably been instructed by his lawyer not to actually say he feels guilty as that might imply guilt. Isn’t there some legal precedent over there where you’re not supposed to apologise after an accident, as that brings liability on yourself?

Either way he’s gone full peter mannion

“i felt bad, but not guilty. I didn’t kill him, I’ve never killed anyone...”
 

Dr. Dwayne

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Just watched that part of the interview, the idiot is saying he didn't pull the trigger, but pulled and released the hammer, as if that's completely unrelated :houllier: How can he not understand basic revolver operation, and be cleared to use firearms on set??
To be fair, most people aren't familiar with single action revolvers these days.
 

Dr. Dwayne

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But to be fairer , most people are not playing in period pieces right? He should have been trained for using these firearms.
After this incident it should be mandatory for any actor using firearms in a production to receive some basic training on the weapons they'll be handling and the idea of relying on an armourer to tell you a gun is hot or cold needs to go, yeah.
 

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"I cock the gun," he said. "I go, 'Can you see that? Can you see that? Can you see that?' And then I let go of the hammer of the gun, and the gun goes off."

^ That is actually entirely plausible for a revolver of that time period, as @Dr. Dwayne mentioned earlier. Original SAA revolvers were notorious in the 19th century for being able to be fired without the trigger being pulled. It has been reported that the movie set was using a modern replica of an SAA, which is produced with and without a transfer bar / "drop safety". If it is a model without a transfer bar, then it could easily happen.

There's also the possibility that he had the trigger depressed the entire time, meaning the hammer was never fully cocked, but that when he released the hammer, it fell with enough force to cause it to strike the round's primer, causing it to go off. In that instance, he didn't "cock the hammer and pull the trigger", but having the trigger depressed from the get-go would mean there was no sear engaged to catch the hammer when it returned to the primer. If he "released" it, at that point, it could possibly fall hard enough to cause the round to go off as well.

When I was younger, that was always a scenario I was worried about in the back of my head when I was depressing the hammer on my lever action hunting rifle. I was always mindful that if the hammer slipped from my thumb, the gun could go off accidentally because to depress the hammer, you have to hold it with your thumb, pull the trigger, then slowly place it down onto the firing pin.
 
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Green_Red

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If you fired a nerf gun at someone and it accidentally killed them would you be guilty of murder? Or would it be considered an accident? The set guns are supposed to be safe. Whoever allowed that gun on set is responsible for the death. Its their job to make the set safe, that's what they are paid for. He was handed a loaded weapon on the pretense it was essentially nerf gun and wouldn't hurt anyone.

I know it wasnt a nerf gun and it was a real one but the point is he thought it was a play gun, a toy, a movie set prop.
 

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If you fired a nerf gun at someone and it accidentally killed them would you be guilty of murder? Or would it be considered an accident? The set guns are supposed to be safe. Whoever allowed that gun on set is responsible for the death. Its their job to make the set safe, that's what they are paid for. He was handed a loaded weapon on the pretense it was essentially nerf gun and wouldn't hurt anyone.

I know it wasnt a nerf gun and it was a real one but the point is he thought it was a play gun, a toy, a movie set prop.
Involuntary manslaughter

My understanding is that regardless of who has checked previously, the person holding the gun is responsible for the safety of others and is potentially liable for the death. Whether he is charged or a jury see it that way, who knows.
 

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If you fired a nerf gun at someone and it accidentally killed them would you be guilty of murder? Or would it be considered an accident? The set guns are supposed to be safe. Whoever allowed that gun on set is responsible for the death. Its their job to make the set safe, that's what they are paid for. He was handed a loaded weapon on the pretense it was essentially nerf gun and wouldn't hurt anyone.

I know it wasnt a nerf gun and it was a real one but the point is he thought it was a play gun, a toy, a movie set prop.
It all depends on what you manage to kill the person and what you know about what you manage when you kill a person. A nerf gun is not an item that you can kill anyone, as it is manufactured with safety designs to not kill anyone. In this case it was a real gun that was supposed to have blanks in it

To avoid what it happens it will need to be proved who was guilty. The armorer, Baldwin and ultimate the producers (Baldwin again to a certain degree). That bullet shouldn't be there, so someone will need to pay. Because a real bullet in a real gun is something that can kill and to manage it needs to get a certain degree of responsibility according to the consequences that can cause (injure, kill). A nerf gun has some consequences that are not injure or killing in any circumstances (maybe if you bash someone with it)
 

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Involuntary manslaughter

My understanding is that regardless of who has checked previously, the person holding the gun is responsible for the safety of others and is potentially liable for the death. Whether he is charged or a jury see it that way, who knows.
Is there any precedence for this? I’ve heard the opposite. There is a professional there to manage the weapons, actors don’t have the skill or time to consistently manage weapons on set. I don’t think the actor who shot Brandon Lee was charged.
 

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Is there any precedence for this? I’ve heard the opposite. There is a professional there to manage the weapons, actors don’t have the skill or time to consistently manage weapons on set. I don’t think the actor who shot Brandon Lee was charged.
Charging decisions aren't always based on merit
 

TheReligion

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If you fired a nerf gun at someone and it accidentally killed them would you be guilty of murder? Or would it be considered an accident? The set guns are supposed to be safe. Whoever allowed that gun on set is responsible for the death. Its their job to make the set safe, that's what they are paid for. He was handed a loaded weapon on the pretense it was essentially nerf gun and wouldn't hurt anyone.

I know it wasnt a nerf gun and it was a real one but the point is he thought it was a play gun, a toy, a movie set prop.
Manslaughter
 

sullydnl

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In an interview several hours after the shooting, armorer Hannah Gutierrez Reed told detectives that the box of supposed dummy rounds had been provided approximately a week before by weapons provider Seth Kenney.

Gutierrez Reed sued Kenney in January, alleging he supplied a mismarked box of ammunition containing live rounds to the set. Kenney has said he did not supply live rounds to “Rust,” including the one that Baldwin fired.

At some point after the shooting, Souza recalled that Gutierrez Reed stood over him, “hysterically yelling ‘I’m sorry, I’m sorry I’m sorry,” according to Sheriff’s Det. Joel Cano’s summary of his interview with Souza conducted the day after the shooting.
In a second interview with detectives, Gutierrez Reed described being outside of the church when the gun went off and said that first assistant director Dave Halls brought her the gun.

She told investigators that she dumped the rounds from the gun in her hands, handed the rounds to Zachry and told Zachry to go check the box of ammunition, the report said. After checking the box, Zachry told Gutierrez Reed that “there were some bad ones in there,” according to the summary of Gutierrez Reed’s interview.

“Hannah advised she thought it meant possibly one to two rounds from the box, but Sarah told her it was more than half of the box,” the summary read. “Hannah also advised what she thought Sarah meant by ‘bad’ was live ammunition.”
In text messages obtained by the sheriff’s office, Gutierrez Reed showed signs of the mounting stress she was under.

On Oct. 16, she spoke about how she felt like she kept getting “thrown under the bus” in a text message to Zachry and told the prop master about receiving an email from people including a line producer about not supporting props.

In an interview with detectives, Gutierrez Reed said it was unpleasant to be on set because it was “toxic.” She said she wasn’t aware that the hammer in the gun was supposed to be pulled back in the scene and that she wished she checked it more, the report stated.
Gutierrez Reed has denied bringing live ammunition to the “Rust” set, though the documents released by the sheriff’s office include summaries of text messages in which Gutierrez Reed discussed employing live rounds on an earlier project.

While working as an armorer on “The Old Way,” a Nicolas Cage western shot in Montana, Gutierrez Reed sent Kenney a text message on Aug. 15 in which she asked the weapons provider if she could “shoot hot rounds out of the trap door,” the report stated.

“Wtf is a hot round?” Kenney asked in response, to which Gutierrez Reed replied, “Like a pretty big load of actual ammunition,” according to the report.

The report states that Kenney “tells her never to shoot live ammo out of tv/movie guns, and to only use blanks” and follows up by saying, “It’s a serious mistake, always ends in tears.”

“Good to know, I’m still gonna shoot mine though,” Gutierrez Reed responded, according to the report.
 

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I saw the footage of Baldwin practicing with the gun. I'm far from an expert when it comes to guns but when he said he didn't pull the trigger I wasn't expecting to see video of him practicing his quick draw whilst having his finger in the actual fecking trigger. As far as I'm aware you don't have your finger there unless you actually intend to pull, right?
 

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Baldwin spoke with investigators several times by phone in the weeks after the shooting. During a Nov. 3 phone call with Det. Alexandria Hancock, Baldwin reiterated that he had not pulled the gun’s trigger before it fired.

“I asked Alec if in the scene his finger would be on the trigger, to which he advised it was on the trigger, but he didn’t pull the trigger and he only pulled the hammer back. I attempted to explain to him how if [his] finger was on the trigger, and if he was pulling the hammer back with his thumb, his index finger may have still had enough pressure on the trigger for him to depress it,” Hancock writes. “Alec advised he never tries to pull the trigger on a gun unless they are rolling the camera.”
 

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I remember hearing that some old style revolvers don't need to be cocked and for the trigger to be pulled to fire.

Merely pulling back the hammer and letting go can strike the firing pin and cause it to fire.

Not sure how reliable that was though and I know less than nothing about guns from personal experience.
 

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Could well be that the gun was faulty and the hammer dropped on its own, but he also kept his finger on the trigger, so you can't (despite his denials) rule out the possibility that he accidentally put enough pressure on it to cause the hammer to drop.
I remember hearing that some old style revolvers don't need to be cocked and for the trigger to be pulled to fire.

Merely pulling back the hammer and letting go can strike the firing pin and cause it to fire.

Not sure how reliable that was though and I know less than nothing about guns from personal experience.
Most revolvers have (and had) half-cock notches, usually close enough to the rest position that it's practically impossible for the hammer to drop with enough force to ignite the primer. Could be some designs that had the notch for enough back for it to be a real possibility, though.

They could break, quite easily at times, as they were usually just a thin bit of metal and a spring, and in that case they obviously wouldn't be able to arrest a hammer that were pulled past them.
 
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