Alec Baldwin fatally shoots woman with prop gun on movie set

pocco

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I don't understand how he's had to settle? I don't get how the actors can be given a gun, which is essentially a tool to carry out their work, and they become responsible for its suitability for use.

I'm seeing comments about him pulling the trigger, but I thought these guns aren't live? So if he pulls the trigger, they make a noise but no projectile? Seems incredibly harsh that he's got the heat for this, even if he is a bit of a twonk.
 

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I don't understand how he's had to settle? I don't get how the actors can be given a gun, which is essentially a tool to carry out their work, and they become responsible for its suitability for use.

I'm seeing comments about him pulling the trigger, but I thought these guns aren't live? So if he pulls the trigger, they make a noise but no projectile? Seems incredibly harsh that he's got the heat for this, even if he is a bit of a twonk.
Isn’t he also the producer? Presumably that’s the capacity he has been sued in.
 

RedDevilQuebecois

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Even if that is a settlement for the sake of carrying on, I think Baldwin is paying too much on his own when the truth arguably lies somewhere else. No one can tell me that the armourer will get out of that unscathed. I have been looking at that armourer with serious suspicion of gross negligence ever since details emerged in that story.
 

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I don't understand how he's had to settle? I don't get how the actors can be given a gun, which is essentially a tool to carry out their work, and they become responsible for its suitability for use.

I'm seeing comments about him pulling the trigger, but I thought these guns aren't live? So if he pulls the trigger, they make a noise but no projectile? Seems incredibly harsh that he's got the heat for this, even if he is a bit of a twonk.
In US when someone pulls the trigger accident or not they will be prosecuted, even on this case more people are responsible for this. They all failed to do the safety steps before using the gun, which years ago after someone died on a movie set because a gun had live ammo the movie industry introduced the safety rules which on this case nobody followed.
 

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"Rocky IV (1985). Demanding a sense of realism in the boxing match between Rocky Balboa and Ivan Drago, Sylvester Stallone and Dolph Lundgren agreed to legitimately spar with each other. Stallone was airlifted from Canada to St. John's Hospital in Santa Monica, California, and placed on intensive care for eight days after Lundgren delivered a hard punch to his chest, causing his heart to swell and his blood pressure to exceed 200.[158][159]"

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_film_and_television_accidents
 

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Some of the more famous movie accidents, or ones with famous actors.

City Heat (1984). Burt Reynolds suffered a broken jaw after being hit on the face with a metal chair while filming a fight scene. The injury left him restricted to a liquid diet; he lost 30 lb (14 kg) by the time filming wrapped.[149]

Dune (1984). Jürgen Prochnow suffered first- and second-degree burns to his face while filming a scene where his character lay unconscious and spewed green gas from his torn cheek. To achieve this effect, a tube connected to a pump was attached to a prosthetic cheek over Prochnow's face. However, a malfunction caused heat to build up inside the fake cheek and spill near molten goo on Prochnow's face once it was torn open.[153][154]

Top Gun (1986). On 16 September 1985, aerobatic pilot Art Scholl crashed his Pitts S-2 camera-plane off the southern Californian coast near Carlsbad. Neither the aircraft nor Scholl's body were ever recovered.[35][79][148][162]

Die Hard (1988). Bruce Willis lost two-thirds of his hearing in his left ear after firing a gun loaded with extra-loud blanks from underneath a table.[166]

Red Heat (1988). Stuntman and director Bennie Dobbins suffered a fatal heart attack while filming a fight scene in freezing conditions outdoors in Austria. The scene required Arnold Schwarzenegger and another actor to fight near-naked in deep snow. Dobbins over-exerted himself trying to install fan heaters in the snow to prevent the actors suffering hypothermia.[168]

The Abyss (1989). Actor Ed Harris almost drowned during an underwater sequence. Despite him yelling "Cut" when he ran out of air, the production crew did not give him oxygen until he passed out. The trauma caused him to break down in his car on the way home.[169]

Cyborg (1989). While filming, Jackson "Rock" Pinckney lost an eye during filming when Jean-Claude Van Damme accidentally struck him in the eye with a prop knife. Pinckney sued Van Damme in a North Carolina court and was awarded $487,500.[171][172]

Back to the Future Part III (1990). In the scene where Buford "Mad Dog" Tannen and his gang roped and hanged Marty McFly, Michael J. Fox lost consciousness for a few seconds from being hanged before an extra realized he was legitimately being asphyxiated and the noose was lowered. He recounted this event in his autobiography, Lucky Man.[178][92]

Super Mario Bros. (1993). Bob Hoskins was stabbed four times, electrocuted, and was nearly drowned. During one scene, Hoskins broke a finger when the door of a van slammed on his hand.[185].

The Crow (1994). On 31 March 1993, American actor and martial artist Brandon Lee was accidentally shot and killed in North Carolina with a .44 magnum gun that was intended to fire blanks but contained a bullet left behind after a dummy round had been inserted and removed.[35][69][79][173][188] Also, on 1 February 1993 on the opening day of filming, a carpenter was severely shocked and burned when his scissor lift struck power lines.[148]

Waterworld (1995). Kevin Costner nearly died when he was caught in a squall while tied to the mast of his trimaran.

XXX (2002). On 4 April 2002, Vin Diesel's stunt double, Harry L. O'Connor, was killed during filming,[174] in a scene where he was supposed to rappel down a parasailing line and land on a submarine. Instead, he struck a bridge at high speed and died immediately.[79][148]

The Passion of the Christ (2004). In playing the role of Jesus Christ, Jim Caviezel sustained gashes to his back from multiple whippings, hypothermia, and a separated shoulder from carrying a giant cross. He was also struck by lightning before filming the Sermon of the Mount scene.[83]

Troy (2004). Brad Pitt, who played Achilles in the film, tore his left Achilles tendon during production.[35]

Syriana (2005). During a torture scene where he was tied to a chair, George Clooney suffered head and spinal injuries and memory loss when he hit his head on the floor after the torturer knocked his chair over. The impact ruptured his dura mater, resulting in loss of cerebrospinal fluid. The injury was so painful that he contemplated committing suicide while recovering.[230]

The Dark Knight (2008). Cameraman Conway Wickliffe was killed in 2007 on the set of The Dark Knight, as he rode in a pickup truck driving parallel to a stunt car; the pickup missed a 90-degree turn and crashed into a tree.[21][79][248]

Harry Potter and the Deathly Hallows (2010/2011). During production at Leavesden, Daniel Radcliffe's stunt double David Holmes suffered a serious spinal injury during the filming of an aerial sequence, which left him a paraplegic. Holmes fell to the ground following an explosion that was part of the stunt.[256][260][261][262]

Lost (2010). While filming a fight scene for the series finale "The End", Terry O'Quinn mistakenly stabbed Matthew Fox with a real knife instead of a collapsible one. Fox's life was saved by the kevlar vest underneath his shirt.[263]

The Eagle (2011). When filming in a freezing river, actors have a mixture of boiling hot water and river water poured down their suits to stay warm. A crew member forgot to mix the hot water with the river water during filming; as a result, Channing Tatum was scalded with boiling water that burned the skin off the tip of his penis.[166][256]

Star Wars: The Force Awakens (2015). On 12 June 2014, Harrison Ford fractured a bone in his leg while filming at Pinewood Studios after a hydraulic door fell on him, and was subsequently taken to a hospital to receive treatment. Filming was initially expected to continue as planned as Ford received treatment,[302] though it was later revealed that production was suspended for two weeks to accommodate Ford's injury.[303] Ford's son Ben released details on his father's injury saying that his ankle will likely need a plate and screws and that filming could be altered slightly with the crew needing to shoot Ford from the waist up for a short time until he recovered.[304] Director J. J. Abrams also injured his back while helping lift the hydraulic door off Ford's leg.[305]
 

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Some of the more famous movie accidents, or ones with famous actors.

City Heat (1984). Burt Reynolds suffered a broken jaw after being hit on the face with a metal chair while filming a fight scene. The injury left him restricted to a liquid diet; he lost 30 lb (14 kg) by the time filming wrapped.[149]

Dune (1984). Jürgen Prochnow suffered first- and second-degree burns to his face while filming a scene where his character lay unconscious and spewed green gas from his torn cheek. To achieve this effect, a tube connected to a pump was attached to a prosthetic cheek over Prochnow's face. However, a malfunction caused heat to build up inside the fake cheek and spill near molten goo on Prochnow's face once it was torn open.[153][154]

Top Gun (1986). On 16 September 1985, aerobatic pilot Art Scholl crashed his Pitts S-2 camera-plane off the southern Californian coast near Carlsbad. Neither the aircraft nor Scholl's body were ever recovered.[35][79][148][162]

Die Hard (1988). Bruce Willis lost two-thirds of his hearing in his left ear after firing a gun loaded with extra-loud blanks from underneath a table.[166]

Red Heat (1988). Stuntman and director Bennie Dobbins suffered a fatal heart attack while filming a fight scene in freezing conditions outdoors in Austria. The scene required Arnold Schwarzenegger and another actor to fight near-naked in deep snow. Dobbins over-exerted himself trying to install fan heaters in the snow to prevent the actors suffering hypothermia.[168]

The Abyss (1989). Actor Ed Harris almost drowned during an underwater sequence. Despite him yelling "Cut" when he ran out of air, the production crew did not give him oxygen until he passed out. The trauma caused him to break down in his car on the way home.[169]

Cyborg (1989). While filming, Jackson "Rock" Pinckney lost an eye during filming when Jean-Claude Van Damme accidentally struck him in the eye with a prop knife. Pinckney sued Van Damme in a North Carolina court and was awarded $487,500.[171][172]

Back to the Future Part III (1990). In the scene where Buford "Mad Dog" Tannen and his gang roped and hanged Marty McFly, Michael J. Fox lost consciousness for a few seconds from being hanged before an extra realized he was legitimately being asphyxiated and the noose was lowered. He recounted this event in his autobiography, Lucky Man.[178][92]

Super Mario Bros. (1993). Bob Hoskins was stabbed four times, electrocuted, and was nearly drowned. During one scene, Hoskins broke a finger when the door of a van slammed on his hand.[185].

The Crow (1994). On 31 March 1993, American actor and martial artist Brandon Lee was accidentally shot and killed in North Carolina with a .44 magnum gun that was intended to fire blanks but contained a bullet left behind after a dummy round had been inserted and removed.[35][69][79][173][188] Also, on 1 February 1993 on the opening day of filming, a carpenter was severely shocked and burned when his scissor lift struck power lines.[148]

Waterworld (1995). Kevin Costner nearly died when he was caught in a squall while tied to the mast of his trimaran.

XXX (2002). On 4 April 2002, Vin Diesel's stunt double, Harry L. O'Connor, was killed during filming,[174] in a scene where he was supposed to rappel down a parasailing line and land on a submarine. Instead, he struck a bridge at high speed and died immediately.[79][148]

The Passion of the Christ (2004). In playing the role of Jesus Christ, Jim Caviezel sustained gashes to his back from multiple whippings, hypothermia, and a separated shoulder from carrying a giant cross. He was also struck by lightning before filming the Sermon of the Mount scene.[83]

Troy (2004). Brad Pitt, who played Achilles in the film, tore his left Achilles tendon during production.[35]

Syriana (2005). During a torture scene where he was tied to a chair, George Clooney suffered head and spinal injuries and memory loss when he hit his head on the floor after the torturer knocked his chair over. The impact ruptured his dura mater, resulting in loss of cerebrospinal fluid. The injury was so painful that he contemplated committing suicide while recovering.[230]

The Dark Knight (2008). Cameraman Conway Wickliffe was killed in 2007 on the set of The Dark Knight, as he rode in a pickup truck driving parallel to a stunt car; the pickup missed a 90-degree turn and crashed into a tree.[21][79][248]

Harry Potter and the Deathly Hallows (2010/2011). During production at Leavesden, Daniel Radcliffe's stunt double David Holmes suffered a serious spinal injury during the filming of an aerial sequence, which left him a paraplegic. Holmes fell to the ground following an explosion that was part of the stunt.[256][260][261][262]

Lost (2010). While filming a fight scene for the series finale "The End", Terry O'Quinn mistakenly stabbed Matthew Fox with a real knife instead of a collapsible one. Fox's life was saved by the kevlar vest underneath his shirt.[263]

The Eagle (2011). When filming in a freezing river, actors have a mixture of boiling hot water and river water poured down their suits to stay warm. A crew member forgot to mix the hot water with the river water during filming; as a result, Channing Tatum was scalded with boiling water that burned the skin off the tip of his penis.[166][256]

Star Wars: The Force Awakens (2015). On 12 June 2014, Harrison Ford fractured a bone in his leg while filming at Pinewood Studios after a hydraulic door fell on him, and was subsequently taken to a hospital to receive treatment. Filming was initially expected to continue as planned as Ford received treatment,[302] though it was later revealed that production was suspended for two weeks to accommodate Ford's injury.[303] Ford's son Ben released details on his father's injury saying that his ankle will likely need a plate and screws and that filming could be altered slightly with the crew needing to shoot Ford from the waist up for a short time until he recovered.[304] Director J. J. Abrams also injured his back while helping lift the hydraulic door off Ford's leg.[305]
Forgot the worst one. During the filming of the Twilight Zone film, a helicopter decapitated three actors, two of them children. John Landis is somehow still making movies despite it.
 

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Forgot the worst one. During the filming of the Twilight Zone film, a helicopter decapitated three actors, two of them children. John Landis is somehow still making movies despite it.
It was already mentioned in the thread on the last page so I left it out.
 

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Sounds like somebody was trying to bump Bob Hoskins off in Super Mario Bros :lol:

Some of them are pretty shocking really. Top Gun, XXX and Passion of Christ (lightning strike) are crazy.
I might have taken that lightning strike as a sign and quit.
 

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Forgot the worst one. During the filming of the Twilight Zone film, a helicopter decapitated three actors, two of them children. John Landis is somehow still making movies despite it.
Don't exaggerate. Only 2 of them were decapitated. One of the little kids was only crushed to death by the skid of the crashing helicopter.
 

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Based on the information that is out there it's the right decision.

We'll see the defence but seems like involuntary or reckless manslaughter to me
 

calodo2003

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Based on the information that is out there it's the right decision.

We'll see the defence but seems like involuntary or reckless manslaughter to me
Heard Ceballos on MSNBC earlier today discussing how it will be difficult to get beyond a reasonable doubt for Baldwin due to how weapons are deemed as props (or even toys) on set & that there’s always a ‘chain of custody’ for the weapon before it gets to the actor (which puts the armorer in more legal jeopardy than Baldwin). I see what he’s getting at, it seems to have a bit of merit, no clue if it would be a successful defense though.
 

arnie_ni

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In what Capacity? As the one who pulled the trigger or as the director?
 

Drainy

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Heard Ceballos on MSNBC earlier today discussing how it will be difficult to get beyond a reasonable doubt for Baldwin due to how weapons are deemed as props (or even toys) on set & that there’s always a ‘chain of custody’ for the weapon before it gets to the actor (which puts the armorer in more legal jeopardy than Baldwin). I see what he’s getting at, it seems to have a bit of merit, no clue if it would be a successful defense though.
I heard it was a real gun but he expected it to be a blank round and that he pulled the hammer back and released.

Of course the armourers should have checked but ultimately it's reckless to be aware that you are holding a gun in your hands, not check the chamber regardless of any policy, point it at someone and then play with the mechanisms.

Being aware of, and disregarding the risk is what makes it criminal.
 

calodo2003

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I heard it was a real gun but he expected it to be a blank round and that he pulled the hammer back and released.

Of course the armourers should have checked but ultimately it's reckless to be aware that you are holding a gun in your hands, not check the chamber regardless of any policy, point it at someone and then play with the mechanisms.

Being aware of, and disregarding the risk is what makes it criminal.
I get what you’re saying, but there appears to be a shit pot of doubt that could be played on in this saga, more so against the armorer than Baldwin.
 

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They can file charges but it will never get to court it's a no win case
 

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In what Capacity? As the one who pulled the trigger or as the director?
In my opinion should be as a producer as he is the ultimate responsible that hired the negligent armorer that confused real rounds with blanks. As a person, he relied on someone to serve him blanks for a movie

Bad then, I don't know the law and prosecutor's intention
 

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In my opinion should be as a producer as he is the ultimate responsible that hired the negligent armorer that confused real rounds with blanks. As a person, he relied on someone to serve him blanks for a movie

Bad then, I don't know the law and prosecutor's intention
On the contrary, if you are hiring an armorer, they must be professional at their trade and take responsibility for the job they are paid to do.

If I hired an electrician and they did a shit job and it killed someone, it’s the electrician’s fault. They’re the one with the qualification signing off their work, I know feck all about electrics.
 

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On the contrary, if you are hiring an armorer, they must be professional at their trade and take responsibility for the job they are paid to do.

If I hired an electrician and they did a shit job and it killed someone, it’s the electrician’s fault. They’re the one with the qualification signing off their work, I know feck all about electrics.
Agreed but certainly here the electrician's employer would also be liable for not ensuring their employee acted competently and withing the law.
 

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It may also be that Baldin's handling of the gun was negligent given his experience in the industry and/or perhaps he ignored instructions from the armorer or something like that. I guess we will see in due course.
 

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On the contrary, if you are hiring an armorer, they must be professional at their trade and take responsibility for the job they are paid to do.

If I hired an electrician and they did a shit job and it killed someone, it’s the electrician’s fault. They’re the one with the qualification signing off their work, I know feck all about electrics.
And that is why the armourer is charged for involuntary manslaughter also.

Also, i remember reading back in the day that production (balwin) was cutting corners everywhere including on the armourer side not being the most legit type in the industry, but i dont know if what i read is true

Either way, the armourer had the responsability like the producer had it too as ultimate responsible of hiring them as the producer has to ensure that everyone is safe in the set, that is why the producer pays for liability issues and not the armourer (that might have one himself)
 

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It may also be that Baldin's handling of the gun was negligent given his experience in the industry and/or perhaps he ignored instructions from the armorer or something like that. I guess we will see in due course.
I can imagine a lot of bullshit is being kicked up at the moment around it from gleeful republicans and Baldwin will have hired an extremely expensive and effective PR team to get public opinion on his side so until we see what people are willing to swear in court it's fair to hold off having strong opinions
 

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On the contrary, if you are hiring an armorer, they must be professional at their trade and take responsibility for the job they are paid to do.

If I hired an electrician and they did a shit job and it killed someone, it’s the electrician’s fault. They’re the one with the qualification signing off their work, I know feck all about electrics.
I'd imagine there's several points of failure in the process to stop someone accidently firing a loaded firearm. One of those is obviously the armourer loading the gun but I'd be surprised if all were on a single person. Blanks/empty gun are recognisable so I'm surprised no one else checked and confirmed before pointing at a person and firing it.

Question is did the production follow all the advice it was given on what needs to be done and if not they'll be culpable. There were also prior incidents with misfiring blanks I read (assume thats not uncommon) so the other question will be did the production assess the risk accurately. Most films dub over gun fire anyway.
 

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I'd imagine there's several points of failure in the process to stop someone accidently firing a loaded firearm. One of those is obviously the armourer loading the gun but I'd be surprised if all were on a single person. Blanks/empty gun are recognisable so I'm surprised no one else checked and confirmed before pointing at a person and firing it.

Question is did the production follow all the advice it was given on what needs to be done and if not they'll be culpable. There were also prior incidents with misfiring blanks I read (assume thats not uncommon) so the other question will be did the production assess the risk accurately. Most films dub over gun fire anyway.
The armourers have also been charged.

It's pointing a fecking gun at someone and playing around with the hammer per his own words, not some random electronic device being faulty. The reasonableness of taking the risk is far different!

It's just not good enough to shrug your shoulders and say someone else said they checked it. Maybe watch the check or check it yourself since you're responsible for the safety of others while carrying.
 

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The armourers have also been charged.

It's pointing a fecking gun at someone and playing around with the hammer per his own words, not some random electronic device being faulty. The reasonableness of taking the risk is far different!

It's just not good enough to shrug your shoulders and say someone else said they checked it. Maybe watch the check or check it yourself since you're responsible for the safety of others while carrying.
After career of 30-40 years shooting many times in dozens of movies knowing that the armorers have a stringent protocol for that reason to not happen, I don't think is fair for the actor (it is for the producer as they hire the low cost armorer). If not they would need to personally check all the cables, harness, mattress etc for the stunts, pyrotechnics, explosions, etc... They are not the professionals

Real bullets should never cross the building