All-Time Fantasy Draft

Moby

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Just because Cruyff is shown centrally in "formation graphics" doesn't mean he was the center forward in the team. In fact he played on the left wing in the World Cup final and was marked heavily by the German right back Berti Vogts. I bet he would be shown centrally in the wikipedia formation of that game as well.

Anyway, I don't think anyone agrees with that suggestion of playing total football. I myself found it pretty absurd. Many more ways which would bring the best out of their team. Not my team anyway.
 

Fergus' son

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NM, in case you are confused by Aldos churlishness, just note that I'm not saying you should play total football. I was just saying that the formation used by the 1970s Dutch team would work for you, and it doesn't require total football for it to be successful, many other teams have used it.

Something like this:

Blokhin Pele Boniek
Tardelli Netzer Neeskens​
 

Fergus' son

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Just because Cruyff is shown centrally in "formation graphics" doesn't mean he was the center forward in the team. In fact he played on the left wing in the World Cup final and was marked heavily by the German right back Berti Vogts. I bet he would be shown centrally in the wikipedia formation of that game as well.

Anyway, I don't think anyone agrees with that suggestion of playing total football. I myself found it pretty absurd. Many more ways which would bring the best out of their team. Not my team anyway.
Exactly, similarly, just because Pele might be up top in formation graphics, he wouldnt be limited to doing just that.

Are you purposely trying to ignore what I say? If you are then tell me I won't waste any more time on you: I'm not saying they should play total football ffs!!!
 

NM

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I get what ou are saying Fergus - don't agre with it though. cant give a detailed response yet.
 

Fergus' son

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I get what ou are saying Fergus - don't agre with it though. cant give a detailed response yet.
That's fine, as long as you understand that I'm not advocating you portray yourself as the 'total footballing' team of the draft, despite Aldo being so adamant that I am!

Essentially I was just pointing out that even without Rumennige, your wing options will still leave you with enough of a threat for Pele to drop deeper and dictate the attack and IMO Neeskens will be better utilised.
 

Moby

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Heh, I was not saying all that for NMs team, I saw you saying that a team full of greats can play like that team just because individually they are better, which was completely illogical, hence replied to that.

Everything doesn't have to be related with the draft voting just because it is said in the draft thread.
 

Fergus' son

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Seen. I wouldn't like to add anything further. If you think the best tactic for his team is emulating the Dutch side of the 70s, then good luck to them if they happen to listen to that advice.
Heh, I was not saying all that for NMs team, I saw you saying that a team full of greats can play like that team just because individually they are better, which was completely illogical, hence replied to that.

Everything doesn't have to be related with the draft voting just because it is said in the draft thread.
..
 

antohan

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Fixture Update

Cutch can do any day pre-weekend. KM can only do days after the 31st. No reply from Iso yet.

So far it looks like this:

  • MJJ and Cutch are fine tomorrow so will be playing instead of NM and Iso, if Iso is fine with the suggested swap.

  • Iso and NM would then take the Saturday paceme and KM had (or Sunday). Iso, are you fine with that?

  • paceme and KM would play on Friday instead of MJJ and Cutch
 

Fergus' son

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Wise up, mate. We are talking football here, cut out the irrelevant digs.
Touchy much?

How is that anymore of a dig than you suggesting I'm lying about watching Holland games from the 70's?

PM your answer if need be but I genuinely would like to know.
 

Moby

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Look, I don't even remember the Weah reference. Someone in this thread said that we had some discussion about him sometime in the newbs, I have no memory of that. Obviously I said something you didn't agree with and haven't been able to forget since.

Anyway, it's upto you if you wanna turn this into taking revenge for digs and all. I don't think anyone else is getting entertained by this, including me.
 

MJJ

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Cutch can do any day pre-weekend. KM can only do days after the 31st. No reply from Iso yet.

So far it looks like this:

  • MJJ and Cutch are fine tomorrow so will be playing instead of NM and Iso, if Iso is fine with the suggested swap.

  • Iso and NM would then take the Saturday paceme and KM had (or Sunday). Iso, are you fine with that?

  • paceme and KM would play on Friday instead of MJJ and Cutch
That is brilliant for me, thankyou. Question, do we just email our teamsheet to brwned or something else as well?
 

antohan

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STOP, NOW, IT'S ALL RATHER POINTLESS

I'd rather we sort out those fixtures and it's getting lost in all this bollocks
 

Brwned

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Lads I'll have to close the thread if this drags on much longer. Just agree to disagree.

Fergus'son, yes you absolutely could put Pelé up top on a formation graphic if he wasn't actually playing up top and was in fact playing wherever he likes. I agree. I don't think his team are capable of enabling him to play that way and the team would either be left without a focal point in attack or Pelé would be isolated.
 

Fergus' son

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Wise up, mate. We are talking football here, cut out the irrelevant digs.
Look, I don't even remember the Weah reference. Someone in this thread said that we had some discussion about him sometime in the newbs, I have no memory of that. Obviously I said something you didn't agree with and haven't been able to forget since.

Anyway, it's upto you if you wanna turn this into taking revenge for digs and all. I don't think anyone else is getting entertained by this, including me.
Stop playing the victim then, I wasn't having a dig at all, hence the smilie.
 

Fergus' son

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Lads I'll have to close the thread if this drags on much longer. Just agree to disagree.

Fergus'son, yes you absolutely could put Pelé up top on a formation graphic if he wasn't actually playing up top and was in fact playing wherever he likes. I agree. I don't think his team are capable of enabling him to play that way and the team would either be left without a focal point in attack or Pelé would be isolated.
I see, that's fair enough. Perhaps a alternative to Netzer may have been more accommodating for what I'm suggesting then. Personally I think Blokhin could prove to be a useful tools in terms of getting up to support Pele.
 

antohan

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That is brilliant for me, thankyou. Question, do we just email our teamsheet to brwned or something else as well?
Still waiting for Iso's agreement, although it should be fine.

I listed the rules/format for PMs to Brwned earlier here. I've put a link on the main post as well so we don't have to go around looking through pages and pages of stuff to look them up again.
 

MJJ

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Still waiting for Iso's agreement, although it should be fine.

I listed the rules/format for PMs to Brwned earlier here. I've put a link on the main post as well so we don't have to go around looking through pages and pages of stuff to look them up again.
Thanks, did not know that and did not want to wade through pages of arguments to find it. One player left of my starting 11.
 

MJJ

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Goalkeeper
Peter Schmeichel- Arguably the greatest goal keepers ever.
Defenders

Branko Zebec(LWB/LB)- He is one of the greatest players in Yugoslavia history, a player who could play anywhere on the pitch. Gained world class status by starting as a left winger/fullback and later on moving into the centre back position. Starred in the 1954 and 1958 worldcups, in 1958 after a decisive game against Sweden the coach came to him and said." "Are you a man or a beast? Never before in his long coaching career and gaming never seen anyone play ninety minutes so perfect and infallible. Congratulations!".
Was noted for his speed (could complete 100m in 11 seconds in football boots) ,strength,reading of the game and intelligence on the pitch. He was also very strong in one on ones and was practically unbeatable on the left hand side.


Jacinto Quincoces(CB)-Is considered as the greatest Spanish defender of all time and one of the best defenders in the pre-war era. He was known as a very strong defender with brilliant technique and positional play; particularly noted for his sobriety and acrobatic punts. During hs time at Madrid he formed a legendary defense with Zamora and Ciriaco which is still known as one of the best defense in the world, with perfect balance of strength and technique.




Hector Chumpitaz-“The America’s Captain” Hector Chumpitaz is one of Peru’s most recognized footballer player, was known for his great technique, his leadership, his organization ability on the field, A strong reader of the game with excellent ball skills and distribution but the weak point is his aerial ability. He marshaled a capable defense to support Peru’s attack led by Teofilo Cubillas. Chumpitaz was selected captain of the American continent's team in 1973. He was an impressive defender-scoring with 74 goals in 530 career matches. Chumpitaz is considered as the best South American defender in the early 1970s. He was named to the list of best World Cup players of all time by Terra.com in 2006. He was elected the 35th best South American footballer of the 20th century in a poll by the IFFHS in 2000.

Nasazzi(CB)- The other candidate to be the best in the world to quincoces was nasazzi. Known as the Great Marshal, He was renowned for his strength, positioning, tackling. Is the only defender to win the Golden Ball at the world cup(due to his determination and quality under duress) and to be the MVP of the copa America more than once. Captained Uruguay to a world cup victory,rallying them from 2-1 at half time to win 4-2. Was part of the 1930 fifa world cup team.



Suurbier(RB)- Wim Suurbier was the right back in the Golden Ajax of the 70s and of Holland. Suurbier was a strong,quick and a brilliant tackler. He was so quick and had so much style, that he was the right back, right midfielder and right winger at the same time.
The only thing he could improve was his cross… Some people say Suurbier invented total football, because he engaged even the supporters behind the goal in the game. By crossing the ball to them…
At his peak, he would rule the entire right flank, using his pace to get into good positions only to ruin it with his crosses but still set up some important goal scoring opportunities

Midfield
L.Monti(CDM)-Luis Monti was considered as one of the best half backs in the pre-war era. He was nicknamed ‘Double Wide’ due to his work rate and tackling skills but he combined this with good technical skills and acted as a link between the defence and attack. In 1934, in particular he linked up very well with meazza(main reason he was drafted by Italy) and was a crucial part in them winning the world cup. He man marked Sindelaar against Austria, who was the best player in the world at that time. He was named in the Fifa All-Star World Cup team both in 1930 and 1934.



D.Edwards(Box to Box)-Dont think anything needs to be said here so will leave you with a few quotes.
You can play him anywhere and he would slot into that position as if he'd been playing there season after season,' Matthews wrote. ‘When the going gets rough, Duncan is like a rock in a raging sea.'

Bobby Charlton described him ‘as simply the greatest footballer of all time'.
‘When he first came to Old Trafford I tried to find fault with Duncan,' Busby recalled in 1974, ‘but I couldn't find one. He was never really a boy; in football terms, he was always a man.'

"I totally believe he was the best player I ever saw or am likely to see," said Charlton, who played alongside Edwards and survived the Munich crash. "He was the only person I felt intimidated by. I was never going to be as good as him."



Rui Costa(CAM/AM)- The maestro rui costa will go down as one of portugal’s greatest players ever and one of the best midfielders of his generation. Voted as the best midfielder in Serie A despite competition from the likes of zidane.
At his peak Rui Costa had the complete attacking game – he could dribble, shoot and pass brilliantly – defenders simply didn’t know how to deal with him. Add to that a tremendous footballing brain and his tendency to drift around the pitch and make things happen rather than waiting for the ball to come to him, and he was almost impossible to nullify
Not only a great player, he was also a great human being. After the final whistle of Coppa Italia final in 2001 that Fiorentina won an ecstatic fan mounted the barricades and jumped on Costa in celebration.The fan was grabbed by the riot police, dragged off the pitch and beaten but Costa intervened and rescued the fan, guiding him back into the stands. He also finished his career with benefice like he promised rather than earning a big paycheck.



Luis Suarez-Is considered as the greatest spanish player of all time.
The ‘Golden Galician’ was started his career at barca as an inside left. He had everything you could want of a footballer: amazing skill, an amazing talent for moving the ball about with his feet, great vision and a tremendous shot. But he was mainly noted for his elegant style, it was often said he was such a graceful player that he could have played in a dinner jacket.In 1960 he became the only Spanish-born player to date to be won Ballon d’. In 1961 Suárez became the world's most expensive footballer when Barcelona sold him to Inter Milan where he was an equally prominent member of the legendary Great Inter side of the 1960s as a deep-lying playmaker.


Attack
Giuseppe Meazza-(Fwd/Inside Right/Left)-‘Il Balila’ is considered the greatest Italian player of all time and the best player in Inter’s history. He was a great leader with excellent shooting and intoxicating dribbling skill, an eye for the pass and, despite his middle height, an exceptional heading ability. He was a brilliant passer, both-footed, had remarkable field vision and was noted for his turns and spins.
His trademark goal was picking the ball up on the half way line he would regularly proceed in dribbling through several opponents with a series of twinkle-toed shuffles and turns, before arriving in front of the goal, where he would stop and invite the goalkeeper before slotting home easily.
In away games, the defenders would often foul and hack him to avoid being humiliated. In Italy, Gol alla Meazza" and "finte alla Meazza" have since become popular sayings for Italian football fans to describe a truly inspiring goal off the dribble or a series of jukes. Such was the greatness of him that Inter and AC Milan named their stadium after him.

The Italian manager once said that ‘He was a born forward. He saw the game, understood the situation, distributed the ball carefully and made the team offense operate. Having him on the team was like starting the game 1–0 up’.

He won the golden ball in the 1934 worldcup(positioned on the wings) and was an integral part of the Italian side that won the world cup in 1938 as well.


Garrincha(Right Winger)-The greatest winger and dribbler the world has ever seen. A player that divides the opinion of the Brazilian amongst who was the best ever, him or pele.

He was known for his remarkable ball control, imagination, acceleration, crossing, dribbling skills and ability to create something from nothing, He also possessed a ferocious shot with either foot and was a gifted dead ball specialist known for free kicks and corners taken with the outside of his foot. Garrincha is famous for his performances in the world cup of 1958 and 1962.In 1958 he scored one of his most famous goals, in Italy versus Fiorentina when he beat 4 defenders and the goalkeeper, and then when faced with an open goal, rather than scoring, he waited for another defender to get back and dribbled past him before scoring.

Mel Hopkins (the fullback who faced him that game) described Garrincha as "a phenomenon, capable of sheer magic. It was difficult to know which way he was going to go because of his legs and because he was as comfortable on his left foot as his right, so he could cut inside or go down the line and he had a ferocious shot too
He cemented his legend in 1962 after an injury to pele. He scored twice and set up one goal against England, a performance which led to the English press describing him as Stanley Matthews, Tom Finney and a snake charmer all rolled into one. He scored twice more against the host chile in the semis which led to the chile newspaper asking which planet is garrincha from.

He was given the golden ball after finishing as Brazil’s main goal scorer and creator and is often credited for having been the inspiration for the bull fighting chants of "ole" to be used at football grounds initially during a game in Argentina where he constantly teased and went past his markers to constant ole's from the crowd.
Some quotes about this genius.

"When he came to Botafogo for a trial, he put the first ball he touched straight between my legs. A lot of people thought I would be offended but they were wrong. I told the directors there and then that they had to sign him. Fortunately, they listened to me."
Nilton Santos, Garrincha's team-mate for Botafogo and Brazil

"Garrincha was a phenomenal player. Without him by my side, I would never have won three World Cups over the course of my career."
Pele, Garrincha's team-mate at the 1958 and 1962 FIFA World



Gerd Muller-
“Der Bomber” Gerd Muller is the greatest goalscorer in history of the game. He was the predominant center forward of the early 1970s. Deceptively quick and able to shoot with little waste motion. Muller was a nightmare for opposing goalkeepers, was the forerunner, whom given the slightest chance, could often find a way to put the ball in the goal that cluded other strikers’ abilities. He was short, squat, awkward-looking and not notably fast; he never fit the conventional idea of a great footballer, but he had lethal acceleration over short distances, a remarkable aerial game, and uncanny goalscoring instincts. His short legs gave him a strangely low center of gravity, so he could turn quickly and with perfect balance in spaces and at speeds that would cause other players to fall over. He also had a knack of scoring in unlikely situations." There are seven seasons Muller could score more than 1.00 goal per game in average. Muller was rated by kicker just 4.5 world-class seasons and 5.5 international-class seasons. According to German footballer of the year voting, he was German forward of the year for six times. That is argued that due to his too easy making score style of play not a wonderful scorer. He was also voted 5th the best player in history of World Cup by France Football



Achievements-

7 Times Bundesliga Top Scorer
2 Times German Footballer of The Year (1967, 1969)
2 Times European Golden Shoe (1970, 1972)
2 Time World League Top Scorer (1970, 1972)
2 Times Bronze Ball European Footballer of The Year (1969, 1973)
4 Times European Cup Top Scorer (1973, 1974, 1975, 1977)
1970 FIFA World Cup Golden Shoe And All-Stars Team
1970 European Footballer of The Year
1972 European Championship Top Scoer
1972 European Championship Team of The Tournament
1972 Silver Ball European Footballer of The Year
All-Time Bundesliga Top Scorer
All-Time Germany Top Scorer
2000 World Football's Greatest Goalscorer of All Time
 

Fergus' son

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I don't remember Cruyff ever playing up top for Holland. It was Rep doing the stuff a striker would usually do while Cruyff just drifted about anywhere, spending most of his time in midfield. Messi plays in a team with unparalleled possession dominance, he very much would be shackled if he played on his own up top for pretty much any other team.

Regardless of that they're unique systems that have been constantly tweaked until they found the perfect combination of players and style of play to make it work. You can't just chuck them all in there and say "Pelé's playing the Cruyff role".
Following on from this, having a quick look at KMs picks we see that he only has Messi as a striker.

I wouldn't think that's a issue personally but evidently you would?
 

antohan

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MJJ has got rid of the troublesome Cumpito and has now signed L Minto

BTW, Meazza was not played as a winger in 1934, Orsi was on the left wing and Quique Guaita on the right (both Argies). He was definitely inside (can't recall which side, think right) but those two definitely were wingers.
 

antohan

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REVISED FIXTURES (added to first post)

WEDNESDAY
Cutch vs. MJJ
Brwned vs. EDogen

THURSDAY
Gio vs. Antohan
JakeC vs. Stobzilla

FRIDAY
mightberight vs. DanNistelrroy
KM vs paceme

SATURDAY
NM vs. Isotope (pending Iso's confirmation)
Thisistheone vs. Fergus'son
 

KM

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Fine by me.

Cheers for the hardwork Anto.
 

KM

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Fine by me.

Cheers for the hardwork Anto.
 

Gio

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Prosinecki probably more of a flash in the pan? I remember him being good but can't actually remember just how good he really was. That's the sort of player I wouldn't mind a fan of them providing a refresher.

Lato I was considering all the way to the end and maybe I should have gone for him TBH. I opted for Iniesta having a Xavi-like sub to tinker with the midfield if needed. Also didn't want to go for out and out wingers unless they really were the dog's bollocks. Hopefully will get to pick some along the way :p
Aye Prosinecki was a bit patchy in Spain (as were a few other stars in the draft), but his performances at Red Star were :drool:

Prosinecki was the outstanding midfielder in the 1990-91 European Cup, putting in stellar performances against Rangers, Dynamo Dresden and running the show in a superb semi-final against Bayern Munich.
 

Skorenzy

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MJJ has got rid of the troublesome Cumpito and has now signed L Minto

BTW, Meazza was not played as a winger in 1934, Orsi was on the left wing and Quique Guaita on the right (both Argies). He was definitely inside (can't recall which side, think right) but those two definitely were wingers.

Depending on which era rules this is played under, Monti could backfire... in Europe he was after the '34 WC particularly noted for his violent and dangerous play and for this reason omitted by many continental critics from their best XIs (all the while conceding that he was probably the best midfielder in the world at the time). In a post-90s environment he'd be a sending off risk due to his aggressive playing style.
 

MJJ

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MJJ has got rid of the troublesome Cumpito and has now signed L Minto

BTW, Meazza was not played as a winger in 1934, Orsi was on the left wing and Quique Guaita on the right (both Argies). He was definitely inside (can't recall which side, think right) but those two definitely were wingers.
I am terrible with names,still the letters are there. :p Thanks for correcting me though. I got it right in the passage though.:lol:

For the last paragraph, I found a website which described him as a winger(that passage is from there) while some describe him as inside right and inside left. So thats why I left it there.

And one described him as a cm.
 

antohan

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Aye Prosinecki was a bit patchy in Spain (as were a few other stars in the draft), but his performances at Red Star were :drool:
Exactly my thoughts, remember him at Red Star but then his Madrid form was nowhere near that level, which makes you wonder about his quality and whether he was just lucky to fit into that Red Star side rather than Red Star owing as much to him.
 

antohan

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Depending on which era rules this is played under, Monti could backfire... in Europe he was after the '34 WC particularly noted for his violent and dangerous play and for this reason omitted by many continental critics from their best XIs (all the while conceding that he was probably the best midfielder in the world at the time). In a post-90s environment he'd be a sending off risk due to his aggressive playing style.
In fairness, Gentile wouldn't last a a game either, and Obdulio probably wouldn't as well. Pelé himself stamped on a few heads in his days.

We would have to assume they can get away with murder if we are going to have an all-time draft, but on the other hand we would also have to assume modern forwards are not being totally monstered/kicked into submission/injured by these types.