16
Season Average Rating
- Appearances
- 8
- Goals
- 1
- Assists
- 0
- Yellow cards
- 2
- Red cards
- 1
If you want to pedantic then there's no 'objective right decision' as in any one given situation on a pitch, there are multiple choices but most people who watch or play football realise the decision to do a dummy or not to challenge must be based on some logical reading of the play prior to this. Therefore, do you think Bruno knew he was getting to the ball or not? If he does, then a dummy was a imo a 'terrible' decision based on high risk/high reward because as we've already established, anything else would have been better that letting the opposition get a touch on it and break forward. To add to that, he read the play completely wrong, as he didn't get to the ball first and didn't know who was behind him. If he didn't think he wasn't getting to the ball then why would he dummy it? If as you say, he knew he was 'at best second favourite', then he made an instinctive or conscious decision to dummy/leave it with detrimental consequences. By not acknowledging what he knew or thought he knew of the situation prior to receiving the ball, you are absolving him of his responsibility to read the play by saying it was a 'poor Amad pass that didn't give Bruno much choice'.
The issue is not so much Bruno doing a dummy, it's that out of all the things he could have done from knowing 1) he was/wasn't getting to the ball 2) who he thought was behind him and 3) not getting a challenge or first touch, he chose to do that of all things i.e the least effective and lowest percentage play.
You think Bruno challenging for the ball, potentially keeping it alive and allowing our team to fight/be set for the second/third ball wouldn't have made a different outcome? That's a very generous reading of it.
I'm not blaming Bruno for the goal entirely but that dummy was bad, really bad. There's really no way around it from all the reasonable logical assumptions a player would make yet you've jumped to some conclusions that conveniently clear Bruno of his involvement in that play.
As for Bruno being famous for dummying and flashy plays, he's also equally famous for over playing/rushing and over complicating it. It doesn't prove anything, hence why myself and others are saying, regardless of the player, a dummy by any player in that scenario was a dumb decision.
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You've avoided the question there. This isn't about his general attitude, it's about that one chase. There isn't an angle I'm aware of that he features in, he didn't get back close enough to our goal. By contrast, Eriksen did get back into frame, having been further up the pitch than Amad at the point the ball was lost. So let me try putting it another way - do you think that making less effort to get back than a comparatively less fit older player, who's legs have gone, and who'd been on the pitch for the whole match, as a young player, who was our freshest on the pitch having played less than 30 minutes, is conducive to getting more minutes?
Why have you quoted "poor Amad pass that didn't give Bruno much choice"? That's a quote you've made up, which is about as bad faith an argument as you can get.
You've managed to capture what I was saying about Bruno's involvement anyway, with this quote:
It's possible for multiple players to make mistakes within the same passage of play, in this case the pass from Amad was far from optimal and then Bruno made a poor decision about what to do with it. I can see why he did, as I disagree with your assertion that a dummy in the penalty area is automatically bad, but I agree that it was definitely the wrong decision to make in this situation, he wasn't aware of the picture behind him, which made it a gamble, and it failed.
Anyway this has been dragged totally off topic now, this is about Amad's reaction, I'm happy to discuss that further if you want, although let's try to keep fake quotes and strawmen out of it..
Think he will save us that 50m to be spent on Olise.
What is the point in discussing one chase that isn’t visible. In terms of angles that you’re aware of….can you post alternative ones or is it just this one that follows the play? Eriksen isn’t further forward at that point so there’s one lie for a start.
Post the whole pitch view that shows Amad making no effort or admit that you’ve tried to apply something that isn’t visible to your own agenda, and to do that you have, completely individually, attached blame for the goal on the pass.
This is quite the case study in deflection. We've got "why even discuss this", "you've got an agenda", "show more angles", it's like a checklist.
As for the "lie" (I laughed out loud at that, so childish), I checked again and Eriksen is level with Amad at the point the ball is played, and slightly ahead when the ball is cleared, yet he still ends up tracking back much better than Amad. The broadcast camera angle shows that clearly.
Your inability to answer the question says far more than the collection of loaded words in your post. So let's try one last time: are you happy with a lesser effort to get back than Eriksen who's legs have gone, despite being much fresher? Can you admit that he didn't cover himself in glory at that moment?
Everyone one will remember the winner of course.
my other favourite moment was when he just ran and took the ball of the Liverpool player before he could make that pass.
We have a gem on our hands.
my other favourite moment was when he just ran and took the ball of the Liverpool player before he could make that pass.
We have a gem on our hands.
The rumors of us trying to buy a right-winger won't die. It makes no sense that a right-winger is a priority when we have Garnacho, Amad, Antony, (and in theory Pellestri) who can play there. Surely Pellestri will be sold, but if we are even considering bringing a new right winger, it means Ten Hag is truly not rating Amad and he is up for sale in the Summer, as well, because Garnacho is not going anywhere, Antony cannot be sold and we don't need 4 right wingers, nobody does. Kinda makes sense since Erik has not given Amad chances when they were available, but still very disappointing.
There is a player in Amad, and I think fans deserved to at least see him given a chance. Maybe he won't make it, but we will never know this way.
Very disappointing
There is a player in Amad, and I think fans deserved to at least see him given a chance. Maybe he won't make it, but we will never know this way.
Very disappointing
If Amad can keep the level of intensity he showed against Liverpool going in his training we won’t be signing anyone. I think his lack of physicality was the main worry with him. Especially with someone like Rashford on the other side teams would be swarming all over us with not enough players to cover runners or knick the ball back. If he can add that to his game he could be a starter for us. I’ll go one further and say he could become one of our best players
You are disappointed there are rumours? Do you think rumours are facts?
If we are aiming at the levels of City, Arsenal and Liverpool. it is not obvious that Garnacho, Rashford, Antony and Amad is sufficient for two wing positions. There are question marks over all four of them in terms of that level. And that is presuming none of them will figure in other positions during next season.
Well you might call it deflection….I’d call it a lack of supporting evidence. I’d be guessing. Eriksen plays in the middle area of the pitch. Amad was playing on the right the right touch line is t even visible and there is no view of his run where Eriksen is in the shot due to the camera angle. I’ve rewatched it again for about the tenth time and it’s a shite goal to concede, however if anyone watches that and picks out Amad for criticism…then yes I’d say 100% agenda. Back four, Particularly AWB and Varane, Bruno for the dummy that led to us being countered.
Rumors are not fact, but it would be disappointing if Amad is, indeed sold. As for facts, I can almost guarantee you that we won't sell Garnacho (neither should be) and Antony cannot be sold because of financials. Rashford also cannot be sold because nobody wants to buy him and pay him insane salary we gave him. So, considering that, and the fact that our priority should be: striker, two CBs, a defensive midfielder, left-back and possibly a right-back, which we don't even have money to cover, I don't know in what world can we buy somebody better than Amad to replace Amad.
Which is why I would be hugely disappointed if a new right winger is brought in and Amad is sold without giving him a chance to show what he can do
Obviously that action or lack thereof is not (permit me to jump in as I'm aware I jumping into a right tangle!), but it is one instance in a game, and I think the general sentiment would be that it's unfair for him to be left in the cold, or to suggest he had a long-standing off-the-ball effort issue just based on that single occurrence where he didn't appear to track back. We have Garnacho, Rashford, Bruno, etc do the same from time to time.
Amad, though slight, has shown many times that he's a hard worker off the ball and a really good presser.
Midfielders misplace passes from time to time, even the very best, but I wouldn't say one action where Kobbie (as an example) misplaced a pass is enough grounds to paint him as careless with the ball or to leave him on the bench. We could say that isolated incident is not conducive for getting more minutes, but that wouldn't make sense as it doesn't exist in a vacuum
And now we're on to classic whataboutism. Other players doing badly for the goal is irrelevant, I'm not assigning all the blame for the goal to Amad, simply pointing out that he didn't demonstrate the required attitude in his reaction to losing the ball. You seem to be aware that his reaction wasn't good enough either, as that's why you're unable to answer the question.
This is fair, although I think Garnacho is an example of the opposite. He was starting games at the start of the season, and often needed to be cajoled into pressing, and he lost his place in the starting lineup. He regained it later in the season due to being much more consistent in his application, and has held down a starting position because of it.
As for Amad, I do agree he probably could have had more opportunities sooner, but given our general struggles it was a tricky time to do so.
Ok let me put this to you as simply as I can….
I don’t know because I can’t see beyond a second after his pass was dummied. I can tell you that I think he played a very good ball in the circumstances given the context of how he received it. I can see him gesticulating at Bruno for a second and then begin to run back. That’s the last time the camera is panned in his direction. He could have stuck two fingers up at Bruno and kicked ETH in the bollocks? He could have continued his run back towards goal. Whatever he did or didn’t do, he had no chance to affect the goal. Zero.
Theres 12 seconds from Bruno’s dummy falling to a Forrest player and Gibbs white hitting the shot. It’s roughly 100 metres from where Amad was to where the shot was taken, in a straight line. Add in Amad is about 15 metres to the left of where Gibbs white was centred.
All things considered, there is no smoking gun here for you to keep insisting that Amad showed a poor attitude in this instance.
Keep going with your own petty retorts. You’re in a group of 1 who thinks this goal is on Amads attitude or that there is any issue here with regards to the pass and what came afterwards. All I’m doing is putting forward multiple different reasons why your post is utter garbage.
The problem we have is that we have issues in our core defensive triangle that need sorting as a matter of priority. I think a CB, or a couple of them, a DM, another LB and a back up striker are more important signings for us at this juncture and thats where our budget should go.
The only way I am supporting the purchase of a starting forward is if we make a big sale. Say we find a couple of clubs willing and able to give us £80m for Sancho and Greenwood then by all means let's buy another forward. But I can't, in all honesty, having seen how easy we are to pry open back the calls for another winger when we have four, five counting Sancho and six counting you know who.
Love how it looks to pass forward all the time. So progressive
Unpopular opinion, but I would try Amad as number 10 instead of Bruno. He is technically more gifted and operates better in tighter spaces. He can progress with the ball at his feet a lot better than Bruno. Until we actually give him that chance, we will never know how he operates thru the middle.
Only things Bruno has more are his Hollywood passes, the armband and his diving/whining.
Only things Bruno has more are his Hollywood passes, the armband and his diving/whining.
The crucial difference there is between counting four and counting five.
If we are going to use either Sancho or Greenwood next season, obviously we have less need for another wide forward. I don’t think we are going to use either next season, in which case both will hopefully be sold. In that case, we have a bit of cash, a bit of wage resources and a bit of FFP leeway to get another wide forward in.
Soeaking of Amad, these are highly interesting quotes, and worth a second read. And unusually candid. Fletcher points out what Amad has and hasn’t had:
Has: Technique, first touch (we knew that) but also intensity, work rate and attitude.
Has lacked: Game understanding and recognition of what he has to do (when).
This to me explains why it has taken time for Amad to get extensive playing time at Atalanta, at Rangers, at Sunderland, for Cote d’Ivoire and for us, despite obvious capabilities. It’s nothing to do with attitude or appliance, which also otjer sources bear out. Neither is it to do with simple physiological shortcomings (height, weight, frame etc), which would be the most simple thing for Fletcher to point out if it were true.
He simply takes time to understand the crucial pointa of the game, to not only take on feedback but to be able to apply it in a game by recognizing when to press, when not to oress, when to sprint, when to save his powers, when to pass, when to retain, when to dribble. That is all, and that is everything in top level football.
This makes me very optimistic, because it supports my experience of the Liverpool game. You could almost see the game clicking into place for Amad as the minutes came and went. From running inbetween to getting on the ball, from dithering and playing safe to playing quicker and more intuitive, from looking far from end product to being a flow of end product. It looked like epiphany. It points towards Amad improving further in the near future, and towards the staff having a sound plan for him that takes into account where he actually is in his development, not where we’d wish him to be.
The camera clearly shows that he doesn't make it back as far as Eriksen for example, as evidenced by Eriksen being in frame and Amad not. Also, a very good ball?
It's quite clear that you refuse to accept any criticism for Amad, hence yet another strawman. I'm not blaming Amad for the goal (which you know, it's been stated explicitly, you're just choosing to strawman to avoid arguing the actual point), I'm simply pointing out that he demonstrated a poor attitude in that moment.
As for utter garbage, if any of your posts had hit that kind of height this would have been a more pleasant discussion.
Most improved poster award is yours to lose now
It all makes sense in isolation. But when we have players playing who also struggle with those same things then it doesn't make as much
I never understood why there was so much skepticism re Amad here. Yes, he doesn't have blinding speed but unlike some of our other players Amad is quite comfortable working with a football, especially in tight places. He's a clear upgrade on Antony and Sancho and shows no signs of being a potential headcase on or off the pitch.
Name anyone that agrees with you. You’re strange.The camera clearly shows that he doesn't make it back as far as Eriksen for example, as evidenced by Eriksen being in frame and Amad not. Also, a very good ball?
It's quite clear that you refuse to accept any criticism for Amad, hence yet another strawman. I'm not blaming Amad for the goal (which you know, it's been stated explicitly, you're just choosing to strawman to avoid arguing the actual point), I'm simply pointing out that he demonstrated a poor attitude in that moment.
As for utter garbage, if any of your posts had hit that kind of height this would have been a more pleasant discussion.
Yes, it certainly does. We know that most, or really, every player in the squad, have struggled this season with relational timing, knowing what to do and to expect from each others. Season starts is always like that, for many, and then it was corroborated quickly by unvoluntary rotation. Ten Hag’s teams are always built on collective principles of play, which he goes on about (because it’s true). That means that when the going gets disjointed, he’ll more than ever want to play twho grasp the central principles best, because that is how to get it going and implemented in the collective. If a rookie struggles to recognize how that works in a game situation, he’s going to have to learn and wait. Forson getting game time ahead of Amad, in this light suggests that he was better in training matches/game situations in training and cameos to follow the principles of play, as getting that rolling in the team must have been more important at the time for Ten Hag than any ‘testing of future prospects’ or ‘enticing to sign a new contract’.
Injured again?
Where are you getting this he is suspended .
Suspended I believe
I misunderstood what I read
Was our best player today
Surely should be given a chance in the next game
Oh yes I totally forgot about the red and the suspension.
I feel like a tit for being so frustrated with ETH. I was ready to come on here and rage about his handling of Amad and how it would surely kill his confidence to not even make the squad after the Pool game.
Good thing I came here first.
I feel like a tit for being so frustrated with ETH. I was ready to come on here and rage about his handling of Amad and how it would surely kill his confidence to not even make the squad after the Pool game.
Good thing I came here first.
Hope he starts tonight. Rashford is due a start from the bench.
Has to start tonight, to put some energy in our midfield