Amad Diallo | Sunderland Loan Watch

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For Amad's development, another season out on loan at another appropriate club. Not sure who though -- needs 'guaranteed playing time and the right playing philosophy but who though?

But regardless, make sure we extend his contract before that!
Maybe at Boro with MC ?

Great coach, positional playing style that will suit Amad and a manager that already knows him
 

Gabriel Djemba-Bebe

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When a players as clever and technical as Amad, they can play at any level, on any team.

I don't see point in an other loan. I think he offers more than Sancho and Antony
Come on man. That's going overboard don't you think? We all saw how well Garner was doing in the Championship last season and now he's nowhere to be seen at his new Prem club (after Ten Hag looked at him and clearly didn't fancy him).

There's a every chance Amad could get minutes for United next season (I hope he does as I agree another loan is unnecessary), but the chances of him leapfrogging Antony are slim to none. Antony is Ten Hag's man: he pushed for us to sign him all of last summer. I can't see a world where he drops his 80m man for someone as inexperienced as Amad.
 

Tarrou

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I'd be very surprised if he goes on loan again next season. He's too good for that and we're crying out for good competition for Antony.
 

sglowrider

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I'd be very surprised if he goes on loan again next season. He's too good for that and we're crying out for good competition for Antony.
I think he is more of an option to Antony. He is more of a central attacking playmaker. Even Mowbray sees him a Bruno type player.
 

Tarrou

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I think he is more of an option to Antony. He is more of a central attacking playmaker. Even Mowbray sees him a Bruno type player.
Yeah, he can cover RW and Bruno which is brilliant. Great option to have on the bench and to cover injuries/suspensions and rotate.
 

r0663664

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Come on man. That's going overboard don't you think? We all saw how well Garner was doing in the Championship last season and now he's nowhere to be seen at his new Prem club (after Ten Hag looked at him and clearly didn't fancy him).

There's a every chance Amad could get minutes for United next season (I hope he does as I agree another loan is unnecessary), but the chances of him leapfrogging Antony are slim to none. Antony is Ten Hag's man: he pushed for us to sign him all of last summer. I can't see a world where he drops his 80m man for someone as inexperienced as Amad.
I think ETH will do what is best for the club. If Amad comes back and start performing, he will take the right wing position. ETH knows that he needs to win and he needs fans to be happy. If Amad is more productive than Antony then why Antony should be first choice. I think Amad needs to make the best of whatever opportunity he has.
 

Gabriel Djemba-Bebe

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I think ETH will do what is best for the club. If Amad comes back and start performing, he will take the right wing position. ETH knows that he needs to win and he needs fans to be happy. If Amad is more productive than Antony then why Antony should be first choice. I think Amad needs to make the best of whatever opportunity he has.
You might be right. However it arguably would've been better for the club to sell Mctominay and play Garner in his position as Garner is better in possession, but that's not how it transpired. Managers are prone to opt for experience over raw talent.
 

Loony BoB

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You might be right. However it arguably would've been better for the club to sell Mctominay and play Garner in his position as Garner is better in possession, but that's not how it transpired. Managers are prone to opt for experience over raw talent.
Garner looked absolutely like a fish out of water when he played in the pre-season. Garnacho played fantastically. It certainly makes sense that Garner was loaned out (and I'm glad he wasn't, based on the pre-season) while Garnacho was retained for play time. This is despite us having numerous players capable of playing in Garnacho's position, and us having fewer options in central midfield. Garner is a good player at a certain level but at the moment I don't think he's more deserving of starts than Iqbal or Savage, who played far better. ETH will certainly review every player's loan progress etc but the real test is how they play for him at United, and he clearly wasn't convinced with Garner and neither was I.

McTominay meanwhile was in such good form for us that he kept Casemiro out of the starting lineup for a good while, and has been solid when he's returned in recent games.

I want Garner to do well but we have to play the cards were dealt at the time and at the time, Garner's card was weak.

And it's not the end for any player like Amad, for sure. We all though AWB was done for and ETH gave him a second chance, he took it, and now ETH is ready to use him ahead of a fit Dalot in some games. This is great, and helps inspire players to work harder.
 

Abraxas

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You might be right. However it arguably would've been better for the club to sell Mctominay and play Garner in his position as Garner is better in possession, but that's not how it transpired. Managers are prone to opt for experience over raw talent.
I think arguably is definitely the operative word here.

Garner simply wasn't cutting the mustard, ultimately. Doubts were raised about him passively making his way through games in the Championship, which is the exact thing we criticise McTominay for at PL level. Not that he didn't play well for Forest, but the writing was probably on the wall if we chose to see it.

He now goes to Everton and he's not pulling up trees.

I think I'd rather have McTominay and throw him into a role where can break into the box, whether as a sub or squad player rather than Garner who I see no use for. We may as well play Mainoo at 17, he can pass the ball and he looked more likely to make himself available than Garner.
 

SAFMUTD

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I think arguably is definitely the operative word here.

Garner simply wasn't cutting the mustard, ultimately. Doubts were raised about him passively making his way through games in the Championship, which is the exact thing we criticise McTominay for at PL level. Not that he didn't play well for Forest, but the writing was probably on the wall if we chose to see it.

He now goes to Everton and he's not pulling up trees.

I think I'd rather have McTominay and throw him into a role where can break into the box, whether as a sub or squad player rather than Garner who I see no use for. We may as well play Mainoo at 17, he can pass the ball and he looked more likely to make himself available than Garner.
Garner can even break in a poor poor Everton team. That says it all really, was a good sell for us.

I much rather do it that way, it's easy to see when a youngster is not going to make it. At least not going to make it big if by the time they're 21-22 they haven't break it it's highly unlikely they will with the odd exception here and there.

We can either sell them at that stage and get some funds to buy other players or we can keep them here rotting in the bench until we finally let them go for free.
 

Red00012

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Nothing will be decided until after pre season and ETH has seen his abilities and will decide what’s best for him in the next 12 months. I personally think a loan to a PL club would be more beneficial to him than sitting on the bench for us for 3/4 of the season
 

MadDogg

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Garner can even break in a poor poor Everton team. That says it all really, was a good sell for us.

I much rather do it that way, it's easy to see when a youngster is not going to make it. At least not going to make it big if by the time they're 21-22 they haven't break it it's highly unlikely they will with the odd exception here and there.

We can either sell them at that stage and get some funds to buy other players or we can keep them here rotting in the bench until we finally let them go for free.
Yep. I watched Garner play about eight times over the 18 months before we sold him as he seemed to be the 'type' of player we desperately needed. But every single time it was the same thing - the occasional nice touch or pass, but otherwise he was very passive and let games pass him by. Nothing to indicate he was even an improvement on Scott, who is someone I don't rate much either. At first I though I may have just got unlucky with seeing Garner's poor games, but others on the forum were saying the same things in plenty of other games so it was obviously a consistent thing. Us selling him when we did was pretty much the textbook perfect time, which is something we've obviously failed at massively over the years.
 

Gabriel Djemba-Bebe

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Garner can even break in a poor poor Everton team. That says it all really
That's such a sensationlist way of looking at football. Ziyech can't even get a game for the worst Chelsea side in years, therefore he must be shit. Michael Carrick couldn't get a callup in 2012 for the worst England team in decades, therefore he must've been a worse player than Gareth Barry. Just because a manager doesn't fancy a player doesn't mean he's not good enough. It just means he doesn't suit the style of play of Sean Dyche, or Frank Lampard (whatever the hell that style that was).

Fair enough if you name which attributes Garner is lacking (like other posters have done) then I'd be more willing to understand your viewpoint, but let's not resort to rudimentary arguments like yours.
 

SAFMUTD

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That's such a sensationlist way of looking at football. Ziyech can't even get a game for the worst Chelsea side in years, therefore he must be shit. Michael Carrick couldn't get a callup in 2012 for the worst England team in decades, therefore he must've been a worse player than Gareth Barry. Just because a manager doesn't fancy a player doesn't mean he's not good enough. It just means he doesn't suit the style of play of Sean Dyche, or Frank Lampard (whatever the hell that style that was).

Fair enough if you name which attributes Garner is lacking (like other posters have done) then I'd be more willing to understand your viewpoint, but let's not resort to rudimentary arguments like yours.
There's no need to analyse anything when the difference in quality is huge. He barely plays for Everton, meaning he has less than 200 minutes in all competitions for them this season. I don't need to analyse any attributes to know that if he can't even break as a squad player there then he's not good enough for us.
 

SAFMUTD

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Yep. I watched Garner play about eight times over the 18 months before we sold him as he seemed to be the 'type' of player we desperately needed. But every single time it was the same thing - the occasional nice touch or pass, but otherwise he was very passive and let games pass him by. Nothing to indicate he was even an improvement on Scott, who is someone I don't rate much either. At first I though I may have just got unlucky with seeing Garner's poor games, but others on the forum were saying the same things in plenty of other games so it was obviously a consistent thing. Us selling him when we did was pretty much the textbook perfect time, which is something we've obviously failed at massively over the years.
Exactly, keeping him for another season would only had his value decreased and even interest lost. He came from a solid season in the championship it was the perfect time to sell him.
 

Gabriel Djemba-Bebe

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There's no need to analyse anything when the difference in quality is huge. He barely plays for Everton, meaning he has less than 200 minutes in all competitions for them this season. I don't need to analyse any attributes to know that if he can't even break as a squad player there then he's not good enough for us.
At the age of 22, Ivan Toney couldn't make it as a squad player at a Newcastle team that was fighting relegation. Now, 5 years later, a lot of fans on here are advocating us signing him for well over 50m.

Anyway, this isn't a James Garner thread and I don't want to derail it any further. I'm just saying it would be wise for people to temper their expectations about Amad's gametime at United next season. He's an exciting prospect and I'm hopeful he'll make a career at United, but I'm going to wait at least a few more months before I start saying he should be starting PL games ahead of Antony.
 

top1whoisman

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For anyone interested, Burnley vs Sunderland is live on Sky tonight.

Edit: Never mind, he's on the bench. Not a shock really, considering he played in Comoros on Tuesday.
 
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Messier1994

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So close for Diallo there against Burnley, hit the bar after a deflection,

Diallo has played a ton for Sunderland this season, but has been rested a few weeks lately and come on as a sub in this game.

Sunderland is without a striker, mess up their game a bit, but Diallo is playing well and in a solid environment anyway for sure.
 

whitbyviking

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Makes the most sense. But will he get a guaranteed starting spot? Do they have already some established player in his position at Boro?
Middlesbrough seem to play Forss there mostly, who’s a converted striker.They also have Jones, who was very highly rated but seems to have dropped off. Amad would fit in well there and most likely start, although Forss has some goals and assists.
 

top1whoisman

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Middlesbrough seem to play Forss there mostly, who’s a converted striker.They also have Jones, who was very highly rated but seems to have dropped off. Amad would fit in well there and most likely start, although Forss has some goals and assists.
Having watched both players quite a lot, I’d say Amad is by far a better footballer. Forss in a good fin(n)isher and quite fast, but Amad is on a level above him when it comes to doing stuff with the ball and creating for your teammates. And I still see Forss primarily as a striker.

Hope they go up, because I can see Carrick being interested in Amad. Boro have some decent players but I’d argue not so much in the wide positions. Him linking up with Akpom would be nice to see. Perhaps even with Archer of Villa decide to loan him again.
 

Champ

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Strange to rest him but guess Mowbray had a game plan and worked it to near perfection.

Amad has dipped in terms of form recently, for sure fatigue has played an impact in that.

Still seems like he can't pin down a position, whether that's right wing, number 10 or a striker/false 9 type role.
 

top1whoisman

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Strange to rest him but guess Mowbray had a game plan and worked it to near perfection.

Still seems like he can't pin down a position, whether that's right wing, number 10 or a striker/false 9 type role.
Actually quite natural considering he played in the Comoros on Tuesday evening so probably trained only once, if that, before tonight’s game.

Being able to play in several positions can also be seen as a positive trait, gives his manager options.
 

Remember the geese

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Actually quite natural considering he played in the Comoros on Tuesday evening so probably trained only once, if that, before tonight’s game.

Being able to play in several positions can also be seen as a positive trait, gives his manager options.
Sensible points but that poster only wants to see negatives.
 

Champ

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Actually quite natural considering he played in the Comoros on Tuesday evening so probably trained only once, if that, before tonight’s game.

Being able to play in several positions can also be seen as a positive trait, gives his manager options.
Thought he should have started to be honest, the fact that he played 75 minutes should have put him in good condition really, but as I said Mowbrays game plan was near perfect.

Being adaptable can have it's benefits, but also cause issues, probably more than what outweigh the negatives.
Having a set position means you can hold down a place in the team, having multiple positions can reduce the amount time you get as you end up being a jack of all trades and master of none.
 

top1whoisman

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Thought he should have started to be honest, the fact that he played 75 minutes should have put him in good condition really, but as I said Mowbrays game plan was near perfect.

Being adaptable can have it's benefits, but also cause issues, probably more than what outweigh the negatives.
Having a set position means you can hold down a place in the team, having multiple positions can reduce the amount time you get as you end up being a jack of all trades and master of none.
Playing on the other side of the planet three days earlier and after that spending god knows how long in the air and at airports trying to get some sleep would suggest to me that he probably was not in a good condition to play tonight.

And usually players go through recovery treatment the day after the game, Amad likely spent the whole Wednesday travelling from the Comoros to Sunderland. So far from ideal recovery and preparation for tonight.

I’d say that most of the times being able to play multiple positions increases game time instead of reducing it. Especially as a young player trying to get minutes on loan, it’s really good that wherever in the front line Mowbray needs help, he knows he can turn to Amad.
 

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Where were the negatives in what I said!!!???

This place is fecking crazy at times!!
Firstly, the "strange to rest him" part without acknowledging that Amad has probably only just returned from international duty. Once again mentioning his form dipping and fatigue. Then finishing off with how the guy can't nail down a position. Overly negative comments for a player who is having a very good season.
 

Champ

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Firstly, the "strange to rest him" part without acknowledging that Amad has probably only just returned from international duty. Once again mentioning his form dipping and fatigue. Then finishing off with how the guy can't nail down a position. Overly negative comments for a player who is having a very good season.
There was nothing negative in what I said, but nevermind, each to their own I guess.
 

Champ

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Playing on the other side of the planet three days earlier and after that spending god knows how long in the air and at airports trying to get some sleep would suggest to me that he probably was not in a good condition to play tonight.

And usually players go through recovery treatment the day after the game, Amad likely spent the whole Wednesday travelling from the Comoros to Sunderland. So far from ideal recovery and preparation for tonight.

I’d say that most of the times being able to play multiple positions increases game time instead of reducing it. Especially as a young player trying to get minutes on loan, it’s really good that wherever in the front line Mowbray needs help, he knows he can turn to Amad.
Yeah, Mowbray said after the game that they didn't know what his physical condition was like and so didn't want to risk it from the start, which is fair enough, otherwise he said he would have started.

As for being able to play multiple positions, it most definitely works both ways.
You can very much end up being a squad player by not holding down a set position, someone who fills in as and when, rather than someone who plays and holds down that one position.

It's good to be versatile, but it's also good to have a set position, which I don't think Amad has yet.
Isn't too much of an issue currently, but will be an issue if and when he is involved in the first team at United.
 

Rasha992

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I think he's ready to make the step up to be a rotation option on the RW.
He seems more well rounded than Antony with a higher potential.
Like one of City's attackers who can do everything.
 

Bondi77

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Yeah, Mowbray said after the game that they didn't know what his physical condition was like and so didn't want to risk it from the start, which is fair enough, otherwise he said he would have started.

As for being able to play multiple positions, it most definitely works both ways.
You can very much end up being a squad player by not holding down a set position, someone who fills in as and when, rather than someone who plays and holds down that one position.

It's good to be versatile, but it's also good to have a set position, which I don't think Amad has yet.
Isn't too much of an issue currently, but will be an issue if and when he is involved in the first team at United.
I think he sees himself as playing in an attacking position on the right side.
 

Yakuza_devils

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Bring him back next season as squad player and loan Pellistri out instead.

RW - Rashford, Garnacho, Sancho
LW - Antony, Amad, Sancho
 

Abraxas

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I don't think the position thing is too problematic at the moment. I think it's good for young players to get experience in different positions, as long as it's not too far out of where they'll end up. He'll experience different things in those roles which can make him a better, more rounded player.

In the real world you're always going to get a chance where there is availability at a top club. It's not like the red carpet is going to be rolled out for Diallo. So he'll get a chance either on the right or central depending on what the manager thinks and depending on our squad strength in those areas. That's usually how it is with young players, circumstances converge to give an opportunity then you have to take it, and if you do take it and prove your worth maybe the position will change later. Even Rashford entered the team in this way.
 

Champ

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This is a crazy crazy game!
 

GwilDor

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2 goals and 2 hockey-assists for Amad today, if i remember correctly, involved in all 3 of their goals. Sunderland unlucky to concede a penalty for A draw as the extra time was up, but they were getting a soft penalty for Amads 2nd goal as well.

Basically was their forward this game, but in a fluid position center/right. Not much defensive responsibility other than pressing from the front. IMO he´s still missing some intensity from his game, a bit like Sancho, but not as pronounced a problem as for Jadon. Pressing a little half-arsed in some cases, and doesn´t really get stuck in on challenges. Would like to see a mentality change on this, but he might just be following instructions to avoiding injuries to important players for Mowbray, dunno.