Is he worse on the ball than Rice?
Amadou Onana
- Thread starter FrankWhite
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His progressive passes and progressive carries stats are below average, his misleading expected assist stats stem from a high amount of knockdowns, Harry Maguire is in the 91 percentile among CBs for expected assists for the same reason as Onana. If we played teams like City and Liverpool every week this guy would be a great asset, but when we need to dictate play and pass incisively he will come up short.
Players like Maxence Caqueret and Amadou Haidara seem to maintain their technical ability despite their team going through a poor run of form.
I don’t mind Onana, I like a lot of what he offers in terms of sheer strength, speed and ground coverage. If we sign him I can see where he could fit and add value, however, I’m on the side of wanting a DLP/6 that can give us more control in possession.
There aren’t many out there but Alan Varela is one I think fits the bill and could be a serious player in a year or two. I’d also be keeping an eye on Archie Gray at Leeds as more of a future prospect for that role. Technically brilliant with a 6ft 2” frame.
Varela this summer and Gray next summer after one more season at Leeds would set us for the next 5-10 years in what is typically such a difficult position to fill.
There aren’t many out there but Alan Varela is one I think fits the bill and could be a serious player in a year or two. I’d also be keeping an eye on Archie Gray at Leeds as more of a future prospect for that role. Technically brilliant with a 6ft 2” frame.
Varela this summer and Gray next summer after one more season at Leeds would set us for the next 5-10 years in what is typically such a difficult position to fill.
The only thing I’d disagree with here is Tchouameni is all 3 in my opinion. He’s not a Rodri but he’s a very good passer.
I don’t think we can compromise on the physicality in our next midfield purchase as again look at the profile of our midfield and the only physical players are Casemiro and McTominay neither of which are long term players for us.
We have the technical skills in Bruno, Mount and Mainoo.
I find the Rodri shouts in here a bit wild tbf. He's one of the best DMs the league has seen and has been for c. 2 seasons. The odds of finding another player like that are minute. I kind of agree with @NoPace that essentially you're looking for a profile of player that is the tier below that or can be around that tier of mix which Onana is very much capable of.
This is also the issue with some of the expectation going into the summer. We know we can’t just buy a big name and hope it works we know we need to consider the overall profiles in the squad but when players matching most of that criteria (but not all) are found we don’t as fans tend to be happy with it.
I think Onana represents a very sensible compromise given the emergence of Mainoo.
I think most of us could agree the biggest tactical issue this season has been we’ve ceded the middle of the pitch on transitions because our CBs (who have been rotated and injured to ridiculous levels) and DMs can’t cover large spaces well enough. So we press high but drop deep to defend (which in my other thread I actually think was sensible to do this season).
Players like Onana help to make this less of an issue. He’s got the physical attributes we so sorely lack and I think is decent on the ball too. I don’t think he’s an elite playmaking DM but we don’t want him for that role. We need someone to defend large spaces who can get the ball to our carriers (Mainoo, Mount, Garnacho) or our creators (Bruno, Mount, Shaw, Dalot) and I think he’s capable of doing that.
Interesting that you mention Harara, because this is something he has added to his game this season. He has not been much more progressive than Onana leading up this season. There is not much between Onana or a player like Rice either.
That being said, I really like Harara, but the lack of games he has played for RBL is a bit of a worry.
Haidara has always had the passing range, I think the uptake in his passing numbers has come from him holding his position more than in past seasons.
A combination of AFCON and Schlager playing well has meant Leipzig has not been as relent on him this season.
On average each pass Haidara completed, in Bundesliga between 19 and 23, travelled 14,75 yards and 4,75 progressive yards. For Onana the same stat this season is 16,78 yards and 4,70 yards.
So, up until this season Haidara has not had more range than Onana.
That Haidara pass the ball more this season is obviously tactical.
And Haidara is 4 years older than Onana. Onana's game is likely to progress more.
In fact, at 22, Onana is basically a kid in his position.
We sort of need something in the middle of both. Whilst it would be great to get a deep lying playmaker, we also need someone who wins duels, has an aerial presence, and isn’t completely overrun in transitions. Bruno Fernandes is here for the foreseeable, Mainoo is still physically growing to handle full 90s — our midfield lacks defensive presence as much as it lacks technical ability, really.
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In my mind I want a new no.6 and a no.8. Casemiro and Eriksen will go. Leave a midfield of No.6, Mainoo, Fernandes, no.8, McTominay*
* and he can probably go if the price is right too
You forgot Mount
You forgot Mount
Played such little football he genuinely escaped my thoughts. I guess that ruins any chance of two midfielders, unless McTominay goes.I can see Eriksen and Casemiro leaving, us buying 1 midfielder and 1 midfield prospect. Doubt McTominay will go. He's a decent option from the bench, not a starter.
My first choice would not be Haidra; instead, Maxence Caqueret or Exequiel Palacios would be the type of player I think the club should consider bringing in. Despite this, Haidra makes more passes than Onana, completes more passes, and moves the ball forward more through passing per 90 minutes than Onana. The blocking and intercepting statistics of Haidra are more impressive than those of Onana, despite Onana's better tackling ability. I know Haidra has played more games at a top level in his career, which may contribute to the fact that he seems to be better on paper than Onana. However, I still believe that Haidra is a better and cheaper alternative that is a lower risk.
Stats are dangerous without context. Rice on average pass the ball 25 percent more with a higher completion rate this year compared to last year. Why?
Haidara plays in a team that dominates the ball to a much bigger degree than Onana. Haidara om average completed 45 passes per 90 min. For a team that on average completes 486 passes. 9,25 % of the team total. His completion rate is 84 % in a team with an average of 82 %.
Onana completes 37 passes per 90 min for a team that completes 297 passes per 90 min the PL. 12,5 % of the team average. And his completion rate is 84 % in a team with an average of 73 %.
Put Onana into the RBL-side and you can be sure his numbers would improve significantly. Put Haidara into the Everton side and his numbers would look much worse.
I only have statistical data to judge him on, as well as his performance in a Sean Dyche team. I haven't seen much of him at Lille, as I usually follow Lyon games, and I don't watch International football either. Based on the limited information I have, he seems to be more of a midfield destroyer than a controller. Neither Mainoo, Bruno (from deep), nor Mount can dictate a game, so unless there is a side to his game the stats don't show I don't see what he would bring to the team unless we plan on playing Eriksen a lot more next season.
I think we also have to factor in the age profile of Onana v Rodri (Who is currently at his peak) here as well as the type of teams they play in. Onana has all the tools to become a top DM with time, so he's not a bad choice at all if the fee is reasonable.
I also like Caqueret at Lyon and also Varela at Porto as alternatives, but I do think we should have 2 solid options in that DM role if we sell Casemiro this summer - McTominay can have an important place in our squad, but he should not be our only option to start alongside Mainoo if our sole DM gets injured for a long time.
That said, I think even Onana will struggle if we then don't add a couple of defenders who can play a sustained high press. We might even see much better performances from Casemiro as well if we solved this issue.
Well for me we’d be going from:
Onana
Dalot Varane Martinez Shaw
Casemiro
Bruno Mainoo/Mount
Garnacho Højlund Rashford
To ideally something like:
Onana
Dalot Diomande Martinez Shaw
Onana
Bruno Mainoo/Mount
Garnacho Højlund Rashford
That would make a huge impact in my opinion.
Very good points. Also, looking at Rodri, who's to say he'd be the perfect DM for our structure. Sure he has good physical presence and can pass but left alone in our midfeild like our players who's played that role, he'd struggle athletically. If we are going to stick to that tactical structure, you could argue that being more of an athlete is a higher priority trait for us than being the best passer.
Unfortunately, our tactical structure off the ball is so poor that I believe anyone would be exposed in that number 6 role. More so than additions to the squad, this is something ten Hag really needs to improve on next season. The gap between our midfield and defence is way too big. Maybe that will change if we buy a pacey, front foot defender in the summer, allowing us to push our defensive line up, but our structure is certainly something that needs addressing.
Oh 100%, I'm Onana-in but we need to also reinforce that RCB spot, and possibly sell at least one of Varane/Maguire/Victor and get a better replacement + if we sell Casemiro, it'd be good to have 2 options for CDM instead of just replacing Casemiro with Onana, or in the worst case at least keep Casemiro as the back up.
I'm not too keen on all this talk of getting a winger this season, I think we should reinforce these areas + add a back up striker if we can afford it, although I think the rest of this season might prove that Amad may able to fill that striker role (At least that's what I'd hope for). We will still lack squad depth and won't be challenging, but that's fine if we are building towards something.
Onana and another midfielder (whichever profile you prefer), personally I’d go for a Bruno replacement attack minded 8 but getting another technical athletic 6/8 would be welcomed as well. Also need 2 top CB prospects. I really think people underestimate how shit we are athletically through the spine of our team. Casemiro lost his legs, Bruno is poor athletically apart from his stamina and doesn’t provide much technical security either, Maguire and Lindelof lack athleticism, Varane isn’t what he used to be, Martinez is brilliant for his stature but not super quick either. It’s basically an 18 year old that’s still growing and Mount who’s hardly played. Regardless of my ETH gripes, it’s no kidding we get outran and lose duels often.
Whilst we don't play City and Liverpool every week we do make teams look like City and Liverpool everytime we play. This is where the physicality comes into play, we are conceding far too many shots at goal and this is mainly due to lack of midfield protection.
I believe that our team is conceding too many shots because we are unable to keep possession of the ball for more than two phases of play. Our performance has dropped significantly compared to last season, primarily due to the loss of our well-balanced midfield trio of Casemiro, Eriksen, and Bruno. Unfortunately, two of those players were caught by the time police.
Kobbie is an excellent player, better than Onana as a 6, he however cannot fulfill the role Eriksen played for us last season. I would be willing to lose some aerial duels if it means we can keep and pass the ball more effectively.
In my opinion, players like Maxence Caqueret, Exequiel Palacios, and Haidara are excellent choices for our team. They are defensively sound and have proven to be capable passers.
I like this sentence, but is that down to a lack of physicality or lack of structure?
I watched him closely the last 4 times he's played for Everton and I watched him closely on Tuesday. I have never understood the infatuation and I will never understand it. The antithesis of everything we should be looking for in a midfielder. We already have one Scott Mctominay that we are still dealing with. Last thing we need to do is add another one. I do not care how "physical" he is. He has no chance of excelling as a DM for a serious side because he is not positionally disciplined (He is a vertical player), he can't control the tempo of games and he can't pass. How many on here think he is the answer actually shocks me. How can anyone on here watch our team for the last 10 years, watch football for the last 20 years and think the issue with our midfield is physicality?
Another signing that should have been done in the summer in place of Mount.
Essentially getting a 6 to replace Casemiro should be high on the priorities given how uninspiring Amrabat has been in his stint at the club.
Kobbie has shown enough promise to shape the acquisition of future midfield players around his influence so Onana provides balance in this regard. Gives license for Mainoo & Bruno to advance as 8's with the possibility of an understudy to Bruno being signed (to cover his frailties which at the higher levels will be detrimental).
Alternatively pair Onana and Kobbie in deeper areas and let Bruno venture forward as a 10 which as a scenario would be the best news for Mount who's career best performances / form was within this position.
Essentially getting a 6 to replace Casemiro should be high on the priorities given how uninspiring Amrabat has been in his stint at the club.
Kobbie has shown enough promise to shape the acquisition of future midfield players around his influence so Onana provides balance in this regard. Gives license for Mainoo & Bruno to advance as 8's with the possibility of an understudy to Bruno being signed (to cover his frailties which at the higher levels will be detrimental).
Alternatively pair Onana and Kobbie in deeper areas and let Bruno venture forward as a 10 which as a scenario would be the best news for Mount who's career best performances / form was within this position.
Might just be that I am sleepy, but I found page 18 kinda fun 
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Hindsight is 20/20 as they say. Rewind to the end of last season, we had Bruno, Eriksen and Casemiro in midfield as starters. Of the three, the one most in need of an upgrade was Eriksen. Everyone was very happy with Casemiro, some even called him player of season. The main issue we all had with Casemiro was that we didn't have a back up for him, hence, Amrabat for £10m. We were never going to spend £65m or so on Casemiro's back up.
Eriksen on the other was considered a liability because he wasn't athletic enough. We all wanted a starter who could offer Eriksen's passing ability with Fred's legs. Mount was who the team decided on. I still believe this was the right decision, unfortunately for us, Mount this season has been hit with injuries and Casemiro's performance has dropped off.
I imagine this coming off season, with the emergence of Kobbie and Mount getting fitter, the priority will shift to replacing Casemiro's and Amrabat, who hasn't worked out. Now is the time to spend marquee money on that position, not last year.
A Tchouameni
A Onana
Y Fofana
Any of these 3 please. We can't say there aren't good players on the market. Only issue is whether they want to come to us.
A Onana
Y Fofana
Any of these 3 please. We can't say there aren't good players on the market. Only issue is whether they want to come to us.
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I assume we won't sign both him and Branthwaite. Can see us signing Branthwaite and perhaps Hjulmand instead of Onana. Though with Amorim likely off to Liverpool, it's possible that he would like to take a couple of Sporting's players with him.
I'm still not convinced and as I said previously, would much prefer us to buy a ball playing midfielder.
What the hell is this.
prob be better value out there than this guy
One of the weirder things I’ve seen posted on here, a Snapchat screenshot of some other lads opinion.What the hell is this.
The feck is this shit?
Don't see it with this player, especially for what he'd cost. Feels like settling, for lack of finding someone [much] better.
Don't watch him a lot, mind, and a huge portion of the signing is about potential, so maybe there's a lot more to come from him, but from what I do see, it's a couple of tiers below what I'd hope to see in a signing for our midfield, especially with a technician in it who needs someone par to grow and interactive with on his level. We shouldn't be scrimping in this area of the pitch; dominant midfields decide games and make life easier for their whole team.
Don't watch him a lot, mind, and a huge portion of the signing is about potential, so maybe there's a lot more to come from him, but from what I do see, it's a couple of tiers below what I'd hope to see in a signing for our midfield, especially with a technician in it who needs someone par to grow and interactive with on his level. We shouldn't be scrimping in this area of the pitch; dominant midfields decide games and make life easier for their whole team.
My son's mate, 11, City fan. He told him Foden was shit hot. Just thought I'd let ye know.