[criticalanalysis]

@criticalanalysis
You mentioned Casemiro but despite the fact that he's a destroyer and not a deep lying play maker, you rarely see him chasing the ball and closing down opponents in wide areas or very high in the midfield. He protects the 'square' in front of his CBs. I think that's what keeps Morgan on the bench now but i will be more than happy if you are right and i am wrong in this one. I'm a big fan of Ferguson's United throughout the 90s myself but back then we also had by far the best attacking talent in the country and we could turn games into end to end contests because we believed that our superior quality would prevail in the end. From what i've seen till now Mourinho wants us to control matches, especially when we score first.

The thing is I don't think Schneiderlin is as one-dimensional as people think he is. I honestly reckon it's just form and confidence (again just look at any of the players having a resurgence under Mourinho). He's capable of sitting/screening and he's capable of passing/recycling possession and sometimes with penetration (i.e not just simple square balls and back passes).

Energy is never as valuable passing and positional discipline. Anyone can run around. Not everybody can control a game of football. If all we needed was a runner we could solve our midfield forever in one day.

I was just simplifying the comparisons really because let's say Schneiderlin can do half of what Carrick can do (positional ball rentention/playing to feet etc) he can also offer 50% more in pitch coverage, break up play, winning the ball higher etc. The 'controlling' of the game should come from Herrera and Pogba (higher up the pitch), which I think we should rightfully expect more from.

This is an Herrera thread so I'll link it back to Ander. I don't think it's sustainable for him to be the engine room as he is now physically and tactically (the glue between defence and attack in the central areas) because his energy levels will drop and we'll need someone, who can cover/press/link WITH him. I love Pogba's athleticism, audacious creativity and technique but he's not that guy at this time of moment.

Anyways my thoughts are just a long shot atm. I'm clinging onto hope (like I was last year for Ander tbh).

 

[m1y2]

Sorry m1y2 my friend I have to disagree with you here. The initial statement was Fletcher prime is better than anything we have seen from Herrera. Plus Fletcher was faster, stronger and better in the tackle, better in the air, tougher and the better passer of a ball. The only thing i see Herrera better at is ability to get out tight areas using his very good first touch trick that works a treat.

I can agree with you that fletcher was faster at top speed but herrera is quicker in the first few steps and turn which is often more important for a midfielder. Fletcher was better tackler I agree but Herrera has one of the best stats in terms of defensive contribution in the league even over kante this year... hes not really that bad in the air but obviously not better than fletcher but herrera has much better vision can release the ball reallz quickly, basically running the midfield for us and overal his technical ability is much better than Fletcher, has a better shot and cross too...

So in the end they are different players and brings something different to the team which is far from complete now under Mourinho, so I am expecting Herrera to have another step up in him no matter what role he plays, fletcher was just one dimensional b2b plazer who was winning the ball herrera has more to his game despite being just slightly Darren in overall defensive contribution. Thats one of the reasons I believe he is or will be a better contributor to the team than Fletch..

And its also hard to not to get carried away from nostalgic feeling towards that almost perfectly working teams under Fergie and his players and especially about some academy players

 

[Lawman]

I can agree with you that fletcher was faster at top speed but herrera is quicker in the first few steps and turn which is often more important for a midfielder. Fletcher was better tackler I agree but Herrera has one of the best stats in terms of defensive contribution in the league even over kante this year... hes not really that bad in the air but obviously not better than fletcher but herrera has much better vision can release the ball reallz quickly, basically running the midfield for us and overal his technical ability is much better than Fletcher, has a better shot and cross too...

So in the end they are different players and brings something different to the team which is far from complete now under Mourinho, so I am expecting Herrera to have another step up in him no matter what role he plays, fletcher was just one dimensional b2b plazer who was winning the ball herrera has more to his game despite being just slightly Darren in overall defensive contribution. Thats one of the reasons I believe he is or will be a better contributor to the team than Fletch..

And its also hard to not to get carried away from nostalgic feeling towards that almost perfectly working teams under Fergie and his players and especially about some academy players

I think I'm not quite agreeing about Fletcher being one dimensional b2b player. He is very underrated if that's the opinion on him. I hope Herrera goes on to boss things but from what i have seen since him coming in (more than enough time) Fletcher prime was the much better player. In fact so was Hargreaves who was probably better than Fletcher but it's closer. The only 3 I think to get near the last champions league winning team from this squad is DDG, Pogba and Valencia.

 

[m1y2]

I think I'm not quite agreeing about Fletcher being one dimensional b2b player. He is very underrated if that's the opinion on him. I hope Herrera goes on to boss things but from what i have seen since him coming in (more than enough time) Fletcher prime was the much better player. In fact so was Hargreaves who was probably better than Fletcher but it's closer. The only 3 I think to get near the last champions league winning team from this squad is DDG, Pogba and Valencia.

just no, fletcher in his first two seasons was painful to watch, herrera didn't get chances under managers like Fletcher under Fergie

 

[::sonny::]

I think he covered 20 km in 60 mins

 

[Lawman]

just no, fletcher in his first two seasons was painful to watch, herrera didn't get chances under managers like Fletcher under Fergie

That's not the point buddy. Fletcher prime was better than this seasons Herrera it's not even close imo so I'll leave it at that

 

[Pexbo]

Without any fail acknowledges the fans.

He understands.

He's the new Solskjaer; baby faced midfield general.

 

[DWelbz19]

I think he covered 20 km in 60 mins

Ander 3000 for you

 

[JeffBoomTetris]

Another good performance. The good stuff wasn't coming off today. But ran and ran and covered lots of space. A bit tired so understandable that Jose brings him off again

 

[Trizy]

Like I posted on the Pogba thread, he was excellent especially in such a compacted 5 midfield opposition. Kept it cool, passed very well and controlled his side of the field brilliantly.

He's my favorite United player

 

[Devil may care]

Very good again, he does the hard graft with a bit of silk mixed in.

 

[RB7N]

Does anyone have access to Opta or some other statistics? I'm wondering how much distance he covered today, and what his average is this season. Feels like he runs about 20k every match he plays.

 

[RedStarUnited]

Does anyone have access to Opta or some other statistics? I'm wondering how much distance he covered today, and what his average is this season. Feels like he runs about 20k every match he plays.

Im keen on this too. I want to see what his tacking is like compared to other midfielders like Kante etc. Cos he seems to always be putting in tackles and interceptions for us.

 

[OnlyTwoDaSilvas]

BT said he ran 10.5km today, more than anyone else on the pitch, unsurprisingly.

 

[m1y2]

That's not the point buddy. Fletcher prime was better than this seasons Herrera it's not even close imo so I'll leave it at that

just read your location, yeah that's where the bias comes from

 

[m1y2]

absolutely loved that charge after the ball and that slide tackle with which he won the ball and sent rashford away for his first run in the game... sums him up, brilliant player makes the midfield work much better especially at very tough away game against 5 midfielders sided team.

Great that we have a week to recover, he needs that as Zlatan does, they are working hard and I can see an improvement on already great performances from them lately

 

[Sylar]

Glad he got subbed off and got the adulation he deserved. After every game, it still boggles the mind how LVG used him (especially after that spell two seasons ago when he was in the 433 that saw us go on a decent run at the end of the season which included games against City and Liverpool).

 

[Lawman]

just read your location, yeah that's where the bias comes from

Lol not at all but we can agree to disagree as Fletcher was quality and if Herrera gets to that standard I'll be delighted.

 

[DomesticTadpole]

Wonder if his eyes are still watering?

 

[m1y2]

Lol not at all but we can agree to disagree as Fletcher was quality and if Herrera gets to that standard I'll be delighted.

well I just have a problem with that "far better player", that's for me nonsense because herrera already put in some world class performances and in big games too like against Liv or city this season... you'd think that Fletcher was best player in the world then... Herrera is just at the start of great things finally under a manager who is able to put trust in him not some bullshit manager like LVG or David fecking Moyes.. having Fergie basically pushing Fletcher into the first team helped him massively.

I say let's keep it like it is and revisit it when we are able to judge, right now it's too early to jump the gun and claim that fletcher was much better player, which itself is already a big overstatement

 

[Fracture90]

Another solid performance. Is it just me or he seemed to be more calm today? He wasn't giving away some silly free kicks and wasn't as reckless as in some other situations before.

 

[Santoryo]

Another solid performance. Is it just me or he seemed to be more calm today? He wasn't giving away some silly free kicks and wasn't as reckless as in some other situations before.

Those were instructions probably given to all our players not to give fouls away to WB and not afford them dead balls situations.

 

[m1y2]

Another solid performance. Is it just me or he seemed to be more calm today? He wasn't giving away some silly free kicks and wasn't as reckless as in some other situations before.

yeah he started more cautiously then before for whcih reason he halfway lost one or two challanges but challenges he couldnt wind because of the position he was at, its so much better him with a clean sheet than recieving early yellow card and play more cautiously the rest of the game

 

[Robbie Boy]

He's been great this season.

 

[Fracture90]

Those were instructions probably given to all our players not to give fouls away to WB and not afford them dead balls situations.

yeah he started more cautiously then before for whcih reason he halfway lost one or two challanges but challenges he couldnt wind because of the position he was at, its so much better him with a clean sheet than recieving early yellow card and play more cautiously the rest of the game

Much better this way, those silly fauls in dangerous areas was the only thing i didn't like in his games.

 

[coolredwine]

That's not the point buddy. Fletcher prime was better than this seasons Herrera it's not even close imo so I'll leave it at that

Herrera has more creativity and is a better passer though. Fletcher-Carrick midfield was dire to watch.

 

[Lawman]

Herrera has more creativity and is a better passer though. Fletcher-Carrick midfield was dire to watch.

I'm not so sure I think Fletcher had a better range of passing.

 

[Lawman]

well I just have a problem with that "far better player", that's for me nonsense because herrera already put in some world class performances and in big games too like against Liv or city this season... you'd think that Fletcher was best player in the world then... Herrera is just at the start of great things finally under a manager who is able to put trust in him not some bullshit manager like LVG or David fecking Moyes.. having Fergie basically pushing Fletcher into the first team helped him massively.

I say let's keep it like it is and revisit it when we are able to judge, right now it's too early to jump the gun and claim that fletcher was much better player, which itself is already a big overstatement

I think you are way over rating Herrera here and where was his world class performances? You cite Liverpool and City games this season as him being world class in those games? You are having a laugh that wasn't world class by any stretch of the imagination.
Then you blame previous managers for him under performaning, then say he is now finally at the start of great things. Well I hope so but there is a big question mark if this will happen and he will need to go some to match the performance levels of say a Fletcher against Arsenal in the champions league semi versus Arsenal.
I hope he does go on to be better than Fletcher but let's call it as it is and say he's done well this season but that's it.
Another point was made about him being POY by a distance, well in my opinion he's in the running no doubt but Valencia is in the lead this season.
Let's leave it at that and review it end of the season as we are now going in circles good result today onwards and upwards

 

[m1y2]

I think you are way over rating Herrera here and where was his world class performances? You cite Liverpool and City games this season as him being world class in those games? You are having a laugh that wasn't world class by any stretch of the imagination.
Then you blame previous managers for him under performaning, then say he is now finally at the start of great things. Well I hope so but there is a big question mark if this will happen and he will need to go some to match the performance levels of say a Fletcher against Arsenal in the champions league semi versus Arsenal.
I hope he does go on to be better than Fletcher but let's call it as it is and say he's done well this season but that's it.
Another point was made about him being POY by a distance, well in my opinion he's in the running no doubt but Valencia is in the lead this season.
Let's leave it at that and review it end of the season as we are now going in circles good result today onwards and upwards

wtf are you on now, now one can deny his performance against Liverpool at anfield wasn't world class, you are just blind or don't want to see some players do good. I am done with you I am just done with someone who obviously doesn't rate someone because of obvious bias... just look at the ppl in this thread, maybe you will start to understand, your opinion is way off

 

[WPMUFC]

Just look whose the first player to gather the team, barking orders and seems to be two steps ahead of the rest of the players (20 sec in)


He's our midfield general, he should be our captain, i'm so happy Jose has reformed him from the LVG dark days.

 

[MounchesterUtd]

Crazy how LVG took one look at him and told him to stop doing all the things he was good at. We're so lucky he didn't force his way out. Starting to look like a bargain.

 

[Ekeke]

I'm not so sure I think Fletcher had a better range of passing.

No chance

 

[anant]

Tweet

— Twitter API (@user) date

3th

 

[Brightonian]

Crazy how LVG took one look at him and told him to stop doing all the things he was good at. We're so lucky he didn't force his way out. Starting to look like a bargain.

Hopefully this can finally put an end to the 'oh, so you know better than the experienced world-class manager do you?' nonsense every time anyone takes issue with a manager's decisions. When it comes to Herrera, we did. We all knew better than LVG, for whatever reason. Sometimes managers are wrong and fans are right.

 

[clarkydaz]

Herrera has more creativity and is a better passer though. Fletcher-Carrick midfield was dire to watch.

absolutely. and fletcher played in much better teams

 

[Runner]

If Herrera didn't play for us I would hate him. He's a very dirty player, who makes sly challenges, complains constantly to the ref and exaggerates fouls he receives from other players to get them booked. Come to think of it I don't like him at all. Being objective however, he's doing a good job in the midfield for us and I appreciate that he's playing with more passion than some others in the team. It's a mix bag for me, I just wish he had a bit more class.

 

[Lawman]

wtf are you on now, now one can deny his performance against Liverpool at anfield wasn't world class, you are just blind or don't want to see some players do good. I am done with you I am just done with someone who obviously doesn't rate someone because of obvious bias... just look at the ppl in this thread, maybe you will start to understand, your opinion is way off

Lol his performance against Liverpool wasn't world class that's not bias that's just common sense!

 

[Bobcat]

If Herrera didn't play for us I would hate him. He's a very dirty player, who makes sly challenges, complains constantly to the ref and exaggerates fouls he receives from other players to get them booked. Come to think of it I don't like him at all. Being objective however, he's doing a good job in the midfield for us and I appreciate that he's playing with more passion than some others in the team. It's a mix bag for me, I just wish he had a bit more class.

Come on. A bit naughty at times? Yes, but i would never classify him as a dirty player. Hes often at the end of rough challenges, and 90% of players rolls around after that. Hes a terrier and works hard to win the ball, but i've never seen him make snide fouls or go out of his way to injure players

 

[Lawman]

No chance

Yeah he did, Herrera can be erratic on the ball.

 

[pacifictheme]

well I just have a problem with that "far better player", that's for me nonsense because herrera already put in some world class performances and in big games too like against Liv or city this season... you'd think that Fletcher was best player in the world then... Herrera is just at the start of great things finally under a manager who is able to put trust in him not some bullshit manager like LVG or David fecking Moyes.. having Fergie basically pushing Fletcher into the first team helped him massively.

I say let's keep it like it is and revisit it when we are able to judge, right now it's too early to jump the gun and claim that fletcher was much better player, which itself is already a big overstatement

Nah. i agree with him.

At this stage, fletcher was the better player (in his prime). herrera can hopefully become even better but ultimately he is doing well for a team in sixth. fletcher used to be a very good player for a team winning the league and getting to the latter stages in europe.

Remember when he got suspended for the CL final and we were all gutted as we knew what a massive disadvantage it was?

Its easy to forget, but for a while we really relied on fletcher. saying that in his prime he was better than herrera isn't an insult, its probably just true at this stage. herrera will hopefully kick on from his good half a season and if he is held in the same esteem as prime flercher by the end of his united career then fantastic.

EDIT: think herrera is having a great season and i am very pleased. him, carrick and pogba are a great 3. just hope we can replace carrick as the balance is great at present.