He'll get his football but he's no longer first choice and the big games I can see it will be the two big fella's in front of back four with Pogs in front of them.....
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik @Rood and Imran @Annihilate Now! start with the good news by celebrating Manchester United Women's emphatic FA Cup win over Spurs at Wembley and the future of manager Marc Skinner.
Then it's the bad news and the ever worsening form of our Men with losses to Arsenal and Palace.
Finally the main debate - ETH Out now or keep him until the end of the season - if not longer. Are you Team Nik or Team Imran?
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He's good but he's not the top level, people need to realise he's a squad player and that's his level.
Herrera's been one of our best players for the last 2 seasons and was brilliant for us last season. I was one of those who definitely wanted to see him in the team going into this season but I can't argue with what I have seen from Matic and Pogba so far. Herrera will still have a part to play in some on the bigger games but apart from that unfortunately for him he will likely become a squad player now. Let's hope he's still happy to stay here while playing a lesser role.
I think big games will see a midfield 3 of Pogba, Herrera and Matic, Fellaini the 2nd half sub. Herrera was ahead of Fellaini in the pecking order all last season under Mourinho. I don't believe that will have changed. But both are still important.
Herrera definitely still has a role to play, a big one, especially when 2 games a week start to come in.
This.
Feel a little for him if he's lost his place for the long term. Matic was fantastic last week but I would have swapped them over at half time today; not because he had been terrible but our performance in general had been rather slow and labored and Herrera could have helped improve that.
Unfortunately for him, Matic came in and had a great debut, in the seasons opener, in a game when the team played very well and Pogba scored. This combination of factors could potentially mislead people when comparing the two players. We should remember:
Unfortunately for him, Matic came in and had a great debut, in the seasons opener, in a game when the team played very well and Pogba scored. This combination of factors could potentially mislead people when comparing the two players. We should remember:
- Herrera won the POTY award last season for a reason.
- Pogba had strong performances last year without Matic.
- Lukaku has changed us
Barcelona should've been all over him instead of Paulinho.
Let's wait and see where we are in 3 months before people start writing him off as a squad player. Herrera statistically was up there as one of the best midfielders in the league last season....and that's being partially held back from his attacking instincts. There is no reason to believe he couldn't excel along side Matic and Pogba with more freedom. We are 2 games in....now is not the time to dismiss what Herrera brings to our team.
The question isn't whether Herrera himself excels, it's whether the team improves with him in it.
Early days but based on what we've seen so far there's a strong argument that we're as well off playing an extra attacker (Mata, say) over Herrera in most PL games as we simply won't need that third midfielder alongside Pogba and Matic. Which would make Herrera a squad option by default.
But where does he fit in in a 4231?
He doesn't really. Jose's found his next Ramires.
My hope is that after how we turned the Swansea game by going 4-3-3 Herrera will get more chances to play. I think he offers us a lot. That ball over the top for Pogba down the touchline being a case in point. He has it within him not only to break up play but play killer passes. With the pace up front I think that's probably more valuable than what Mata offers, which is harsh on Juan.
Still, its good to know we have real depth this year.
Dembele and Wanyama would trample Mata underfoot. Let's see when we actually play a decent side before saying we won't need a proper midfielder in with Matic and Pogba.
The majority of PL teams aren't really "proper sides" by that measure though. If we only need Herrera for the tougher games then he is a squad player, no?
I very much disagree that he offers more going forward than juan, but i do agree that he is a great option to have. We have a squad that allows a few different formations now.
It depends on the system. Juan is a better attacking player. However, I would argue we gain more from having Herrera play in a 433 than having Juan play in a 4231.
As we saw yesterday, we run the risk of being overrun in midfield when we play 4231. Yes, of course, Mata and Mhki can turn games in an instant. However, the risk you run you by leaving Pogba and Matic exposed is a high price to pay. A better team than Swansea might've exposed that.
Yesterday, within minutes of going 433 we'd locked down the game and scored three times. As it happens it was Fellaini providing the extra cover for our forward players. In my opinion though Ander does that job better. That platform a 3 man midfield offers our attackers is worth more to us than playing 4231 to suit Mata.
We just don't have a first team anymore. During different phases of the season, different players will be fitter and more proffered. Herrera will be first choice for plenty of games.
He will get more than enough games
Without a doubt.
The inexplicable notion that he's become a fringe player over night is delusional.
Herrera will play this season. A lot.
He's also the third piece of our strongest midfield trio, in a 4-3-3 for example: Matic-Pogba-Herrera.
Wouldn't argue with that, just think in Matic we have a bit of both Herrera and Felliani. Just think it's not that straight forward anymore and whilst I think he'll play, just not a shoeing like previously. I can see Felliani and Matic in big away games screening the back four like the end of the game yesterday....
Matic does all that you have described. And no, I wouldn't sacrifice Mata, a better goal scorer, for Herrera. 4-2-3-1 allows us to have an extra attacker and in a squad which was goal shy last season, that is important.
Herrera is overrated just a bit. He's a good squad player, but shouldn't be starting every game for a top side. I expected him to be phased out eventually as we add more and more quality to the squad. Of course, he will get his fair share of games, there are the cup competitions and the big matches where we need to play a 4-3-3.
Don't understand this place.
He will be back in the team soon.
He will be back in the team soon.
Need his contract extension announcement soon though.
He's missed two games, he's clearly finished here...I know what you mean- he could be carrying a knock or anything for all we know.
Did United offer him a new contract yet?
He will be a great plan B in the tougher games when we go to a 3 man midfield, can imagine matic, pogba and herrera really squeezing the life out of the bigger teams if their all on the same wave length. Plus it gives us greater depth having him has an option, no question he is more of a squad player, which is needed if we want to compete in allot of competitions.
Not worried about him at all. He'll be like the 12th man this season. Might not start every game as fpr easy games we can do just matic and pogba, but you can be sure he'll be subbed on a lot both to free up pogba more or to add more solidity, and for sure start in big games. He's quality but matic-pogba just have a great balance so he wont be an automatic starter.
Widely reported the club have begun negotiations.
Herrera had to be the fall guy and I am glad jose didn't try to fit 3 midfielders when we play lower level side. No point having 3 midfielders , but in tough away games he will play instead of mata so technically herrera is far from a squad player . He and mata will rotate among themselves .
This. And I do hope he starts instead of Mata against Leicester. We will need the grit and bite in midfield against them; can't afford a passenger.
I expect him to be back in the team soon. Against Swansea he would have been a better fit than Mata especially in the first 70 minutes or so, Herrera excels in those kinds of games. Against more potent sides, not just top 6 and CL by the way, Herrera will slot back in. Most PL sides away will be as dogged and determined as Swansea but won't be as toothless, so we will need to fully dominate the middle and ensure no easy counters or runs against our back line. I don't see our offense being negatively affected either, Herrera is more than capable in attack and a midfield of him, Pogba and Matic has enough quality, movement and attacking instinct to dominate offensively as well.
Assuming that Pogba and Matic are first choice and we play 4-2-3-1 is most games, Herrera would still get plenty of minutes because he will:
- Come on as a substitute when we need to protect lead or change tactics (although Fellaini is better suited for later)
- Start when either of first choice needs a rest
- Start when either of the first choice is injure or suspended
- Star tough fixtures because he really helps the defense while not taking away too much away from attack
Of course he'll get competition from Fellaini for minutes along with the first choices but given that we played around 65 games last season, there'll be plenty of opportunity for Herrera to play.
I see his haters are saying how he is average and improvement is obvious with Matic coming in team, well, that's because Matic is better partner for Pogba, not because he is a better player than Herrera. I'd rate them equally, if not Herrera ahead of Matic but its a team sport and Matic suits the team better right now.
Lets not forget he was arguably our best player last season. Beside all that, we are winning because we are actually finishing our chances unlike the horrible showing in front of goal last season and that's not down to the Matic Herrera switch.
- Come on as a substitute when we need to protect lead or change tactics (although Fellaini is better suited for later)
- Start when either of first choice needs a rest
- Start when either of the first choice is injure or suspended
- Star tough fixtures because he really helps the defense while not taking away too much away from attack
Of course he'll get competition from Fellaini for minutes along with the first choices but given that we played around 65 games last season, there'll be plenty of opportunity for Herrera to play.
I see his haters are saying how he is average and improvement is obvious with Matic coming in team, well, that's because Matic is better partner for Pogba, not because he is a better player than Herrera. I'd rate them equally, if not Herrera ahead of Matic but its a team sport and Matic suits the team better right now.
Lets not forget he was arguably our best player last season. Beside all that, we are winning because we are actually finishing our chances unlike the horrible showing in front of goal last season and that's not down to the Matic Herrera switch.
He's a Mourinho player. He will get game time, absolutely.
It's hard to argue his inclusion with the midfield operating so well at the moment. He will definitely feature in the next game as a sub again but with more minutes, then i think when we get Everton he will start.
I'm not too worried, Mourinho will definitely be calling and relying on him alot this season.
I'm not too worried, Mourinho will definitely be calling and relying on him alot this season.
There are a couple of tough games in October (Liverpool and Spurs) also Stoke away and Everton at home in September where we might need three in midfield. The CL and League cup will kick in from September. So there will be plenty of games on the horizon.
Its exactly what needs to happen if we are to improve. We need squad players of Ander's quality and starters who are better quality (Matic).
Matic is a better player. Its clear to see. It lifts the team to a higher level, as does the inclusion of Lukaku because of his pace and power. This however does not make Ander a poor player.
Our bench options are simply very good. We should be very happy having the likes of Herrera, Martial/Rashford, Fellaini as options just in case a result isn't going our way. When Shaw comes back, we'll have either him or Darmian as another solid great option. Not to mention Smalling/Lindelof. Lingard too (who is better as a sub).
We also have a lot of cup games and rotation will be key to ensuring we prevailing against the competition.
Strong.
We also have a lot of cup games and rotation will be key to ensuring we prevailing against the competition.
Strong.
Sorry if this is common knowledge but does anyone know anything about his contract situation? Thought he was going to be offered a new one before the transfer deadline?
(Apologies for making a non-performance related discussion)
(Apologies for making a non-performance related discussion)
Herrera spent pretty much 2years with LVG without hardly playing at all, he is a patient guy and knows Jose wants him and will sooner than later play him. He was key in the Europa final as well as that sweet win vs Chelsea. This thread will be a lot calmer once injuries, CL, League Cup, FA cup matches start all coming into play.
I can only the imagine the reaction from some posters if you'd said that while the "Herrera is actually better than Kante" argument was being pushed last season.
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