Nothing wrong with this thread Jopub. Its a good point, worthy of discussion, as proved by the number of responses going back and forth.
Anderson - is he the 'real deal'? | Retires age 31
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True, I don't think his technical ability can really be questioned too much. You can improve your awareness however the players with the very best awareness already have it. Even some brilliant players never get it, like Gerrard. Which is why Gerrard is probably a better comparison than Scholes/Fabregas.
Caff in sensible, objectivge discussion shocker - quick, close the thread!
Hes 20 so of course he can and will improve. He also needs a run of games which I think will benefit him more than anything. Also I think his best partner in the middle is Hargreaves in a 4-4-2.
Hes often been deployed as the midfielder to hold back this season.
Hes often been deployed as the midfielder to hold back this season.
Thats the problem with you Arsenal and Liverpool fans, you tend to assess players at your rivals based on what their transfer fees were. For most players bought by United recently, deduct £5-8mil from their transfer fees to get their actual valuation at the time had United or Chelsea not been involved in the transfer process and speculation.
The £17mil or whatever figure being banded represents the final fee received conditional upon the ticking of one or more clauses.
Now back to the player, first and foremost I thought he was far better on Saturday than what you have alluded him to be. Overall the lad performed better than Fabregas. I didn't even notice Fabregas was on the pitch at times. Lets not forget the lad hasn't actually played that much top flight competitive football for his age (compare his career appearances thus far to Fabregas's when he was 20).
Yes positionally he can be suspect at times and decision making wise is nowhere near Cesc's level at the moment, but this is a lad who is steadily improving. His ability to last 90 minutes was found somewhat lacking at times last season BUT this season his stamina seems to have come leaps and bounds.
He may not have any goals to his name yet BUT I am more than satisfied with what I have seen in the boy.
Here is to hoping he reaches the heights I envisage him to.
The £17mil or whatever figure being banded represents the final fee received conditional upon the ticking of one or more clauses.
Now back to the player, first and foremost I thought he was far better on Saturday than what you have alluded him to be. Overall the lad performed better than Fabregas. I didn't even notice Fabregas was on the pitch at times. Lets not forget the lad hasn't actually played that much top flight competitive football for his age (compare his career appearances thus far to Fabregas's when he was 20).
Yes positionally he can be suspect at times and decision making wise is nowhere near Cesc's level at the moment, but this is a lad who is steadily improving. His ability to last 90 minutes was found somewhat lacking at times last season BUT this season his stamina seems to have come leaps and bounds.
He may not have any goals to his name yet BUT I am more than satisfied with what I have seen in the boy.
Here is to hoping he reaches the heights I envisage him to.
Some good clear posts in here, if they haven't answered your questions many times over then I think you started this thread under false pretences? The dippers will be along in time, I'm sure you'll find their views more agreeable...
Thats the key point IMO..Compare that with the 4 years of top flight experience Fabregas has and we already know what Anderson is lacking in.
Now you've got the red tints on. He didn't perform better than Fabregas who played the whole game and had quite an influence on us winning it laying on the second goal for example. He also faded very badly after a bright opening and was very poor in th esecond half before he was taken off after about 70 mintes.
Im sorry, but are you rating him out of one single game??
Anderson is going to be class, I'm sure about that, we have to be patient with him, yeah more patient.
He is going to get better in time...
And he shits on Fabregas.
He'll be one of the best midfielders in the world in a couple of years imo, he's got just about everything you could want in a player.
Right now though he's like Ronaldo in his first couple of seasons, you can see the talent but he just hasn't learned to use it properly.
Right now though he's like Ronaldo in his first couple of seasons, you can see the talent but he just hasn't learned to use it properly.
He uses his body VERY well; does instinctive things that you can't really teach.
On a side note, he was totally annonymous on Saturday for the most part. Aside from that fantastic swivel-to-bullet pass that lead to a good United chance.
On a side note, he was totally annonymous on Saturday for the most part. Aside from that fantastic swivel-to-bullet pass that lead to a good United chance.
Like feck he did.
What game were you watching? Because it can't have been the same one I've watched a few times over if you've come to that conclusion.
Fabregas was in pretty much everything, granted he fluffed a lot of opportunities, but that had nothing to do with Anderson - who was annonymous for most of the match.
I watched it again for this very match-up. You are wrong, well wrong.
Tend to agree. He started the match with alot of hustle and bustle but faded and ended up a passenger.
Fabregas was positionally perfect and was a key factor in Arsenal keeping the ball. Also his turn and pass that set up the crucial 2nd was sublime. I though Fabregas played very well. To say Fabregas didn't is a bit stupid considering Arsenal played well as a team and Fabregas was integral to that.
I never take off my red tints but even I think that's an accurate summary of events.
His passing ability is fine, he's hit absolutely amazing passes but obviously not consistently and especially at his age.
I can see him being a top top player but obviously it's going to be better for him if he plays more games consistently like he did last season for a period of time where he was fantastic.
I can see him being a top top player but obviously it's going to be better for him if he plays more games consistently like he did last season for a period of time where he was fantastic.
He's only play about 70 games as a professional (might even be less actually). I think its utterly unfair to be judging him against the likes of Fabregas who's probably has double or triple the amount of games as a professional.
He's been fantastic for us when we've needed him the most (last year when Scholes was injured spring to mind) and he'll only get better.
I don't think he's found his form this year, certainly not in the form of lasy year but he's one for the future and I'm sure he'll become a world class player like most people think he will.
He's been fantastic for us when we've needed him the most (last year when Scholes was injured spring to mind) and he'll only get better.
I don't think he's found his form this year, certainly not in the form of lasy year but he's one for the future and I'm sure he'll become a world class player like most people think he will.
I'm sure the commentators said it was his 50th game for United on the weekend (against us).
Don't know how many games he played for his old club though.
The first half hour or so against Arsenal he looked fine, didn't get involved as much then and then drifted out of the game.
By the same token, I don't think Fabregas had a good game either.
By the same token, I don't think Fabregas had a good game either.
One injury-hit season at Porto and a handful of senior games for Gremio. 70 games sounds about right, in total.
Think he had about 16 games for Porto.
According to Wiki, he's played 74 games all told.
Good points. Anderson is the real deal. He has everything. As you said he uses his body very well and does things on a fotball pitch as if he was meant to be out here on the biggest stage. He's strong, very quick, a very good passer, has good technical ability, gritty and has a good footabLl brain. He just hasnt influenced in attacking sense the way his ability suggests he can. Performance wise he's been great considering his age and the competition he has, talent wise he's incredibly complete and hence here's still slot of his game he's yet to harness properly.
He has raw abilities that you can't work on or learn, pace and strength, which gives him plenty of raw potential.
He has everything technically you need on the ball, besides shooting.
He clearly doesn't have a centre mids mindset though. He runs about plenty and aimlessly at times, doesn't give a feck about positioning himself or marking players, and he rushes everything.
Playing alongside Carrick and Scholes for three seasons should take him a few huge steps closer to being the ideal partner for someone like Carrick though.
He has everything technically you need on the ball, besides shooting.
He clearly doesn't have a centre mids mindset though. He runs about plenty and aimlessly at times, doesn't give a feck about positioning himself or marking players, and he rushes everything.
Playing alongside Carrick and Scholes for three seasons should take him a few huge steps closer to being the ideal partner for someone like Carrick though.
He's 20 years old, he's got years and years to become "that" player.
I agree.
He's in the same boat as Nani. Both are pretty much waiting for first team spots to free up so they can mark down fixed positions in the side.
I really hate the way people point at the 18mil price tag and say things like "for 18mil he should be awesome now" it's daft really.
We were paying for his potential at the end of the day.
Also, when you consider how little professional football he's ever played he's doing well. What was it? 1 year in Brazil and he went to Porto, half a season there and a leg break later he was at Utd.
A meteoric rise really...
People were going way OTT last season, but the more sensible fans recognised he was very much a diamond, just a pretty rough one at the minute.
We were paying for his potential at the end of the day.
Also, when you consider how little professional football he's ever played he's doing well. What was it? 1 year in Brazil and he went to Porto, half a season there and a leg break later he was at Utd.
A meteoric rise really...
People were going way OTT last season, but the more sensible fans recognised he was very much a diamond, just a pretty rough one at the minute.
£17mil doesn't sound like much when I think about Anderson's penalty in Moscow. The fact that he'd come on with a minute remaining and took a crucial penalty shows he has absolutely no fear.
At the moment, Fabregas is on a different level to Anderson
I'd agree with most of that, but if you break down his qualities it might become more apparent why we paid what we did (well, at least this is my opinion of him):
* His passing technically is very, very good
* His vision is also very good
* Technically (first touch, ball control) he's excellent
* Mentally he seems strong (like Rafael, how unfazed he is by big occasions impresses me)
* His decision making is not very good
* His off the ball movement is poor
* His finishing is.. terrible
I see him as a rare talent technically and mentally, but his football brain is underdeveloped. Should he improve his understanding of the game and positional awareness, then I see him becoming an outstanding player. Otherwise he'll still remain the decent midfield terrier he is today.
Fabregas is something special. I've never seen anyone as young as him dominate midfield the way he does (including Scholes and Keane at that age). Most players need a few years before they're really able to shine in midfield, and I think it's a bit early to give up on Anderson yet. But the player he is now is not worth £17m, I'll give you that.
Edit: and in my opinion, his performances against arsenal and especially liverpool last season are outrageously overrated on here, but he has had a couple of outstanding games (wigan at home I think one of them was).
We had more ball then Arsenal and controlled more territory, we bossed their 3 in central midfield with our 2, Anderson was a big part of that.
He could have the lot as he has shown a bit of everything, he only needs to put it together over 90 minutes and he'll be one of the best in the world.
He could have the lot as he has shown a bit of everything, he only needs to put it together over 90 minutes and he'll be one of the best in the world.
I think what Anderson does best is that he combines close control and strength like few other players. That's pretty simple and not too exciting to post but it's hugely important.
Even though his decision-making does need to improve significantly for him to realize his potential, you can see that he has great potential precisely because his tactical instincts are very good. Take the move he started off against Arsenal last week -- the one early in the match, which went Anderson-Berbatov-Ronaldo-Rooney and ended with Rooney skying it over the bar. It wasn't complicated -- just a dribble into space and a simple pass forward to Berbatov -- but it was a good example, I think, of the simple, fundamental football he is capable of playing -- the kind of football that is the most simple and therefore the most beautiful (to kind of paraphrase Cruyff). When he is making good passes, they rarely surprise but at the same time often impress me and give rise to admiration, if you understand the distinction I'm making.
When I look carefully at his particular talents, while I see clearly that he is quite a good footballer, he doesn't seem to stand out so far beyond other good footballers. What sets him apart and takes him to the next level is his competitiveness or whatever you want to call it -- he just has the air of a winner. Part of that is his energy and stamina -- he's physically capable of playing on all cylinders -- but the most important part is attitudinal.
In a game where offensive and defensive and playmaking and attacking roles are becoming more blurred, where interplay and interchange are becoming paramount, Anderson often looks to me like the perfect 21st-century midfielder.
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About comparing him to other players, he's not like today's Steven Gerrard, because outside of attitude what makes Gerrard special is that he's got a great shot. And there's no evidence right now that Anderson has that. I think Anderson is more like Essien than he is like any other midfielder currently playing. But I don't think he's really that much like Essien.
I understand why people compare him to Cesc, because they're about the same age and they play for top 4 teams in the same league, etc. But it's kind of a daft comparison. They're different players with different talents and to compare them as like players is to do both a disservice, like it would be to compare, say, Drogba and Del Piero. What they do share, I think, is that competitive quality that makes them both winners. I can't think of a much better central midfield (again, for the 21st century) than Anderson and Cesc together.
Even though his decision-making does need to improve significantly for him to realize his potential, you can see that he has great potential precisely because his tactical instincts are very good. Take the move he started off against Arsenal last week -- the one early in the match, which went Anderson-Berbatov-Ronaldo-Rooney and ended with Rooney skying it over the bar. It wasn't complicated -- just a dribble into space and a simple pass forward to Berbatov -- but it was a good example, I think, of the simple, fundamental football he is capable of playing -- the kind of football that is the most simple and therefore the most beautiful (to kind of paraphrase Cruyff). When he is making good passes, they rarely surprise but at the same time often impress me and give rise to admiration, if you understand the distinction I'm making.
When I look carefully at his particular talents, while I see clearly that he is quite a good footballer, he doesn't seem to stand out so far beyond other good footballers. What sets him apart and takes him to the next level is his competitiveness or whatever you want to call it -- he just has the air of a winner. Part of that is his energy and stamina -- he's physically capable of playing on all cylinders -- but the most important part is attitudinal.
In a game where offensive and defensive and playmaking and attacking roles are becoming more blurred, where interplay and interchange are becoming paramount, Anderson often looks to me like the perfect 21st-century midfielder.
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About comparing him to other players, he's not like today's Steven Gerrard, because outside of attitude what makes Gerrard special is that he's got a great shot. And there's no evidence right now that Anderson has that. I think Anderson is more like Essien than he is like any other midfielder currently playing. But I don't think he's really that much like Essien.
I understand why people compare him to Cesc, because they're about the same age and they play for top 4 teams in the same league, etc. But it's kind of a daft comparison. They're different players with different talents and to compare them as like players is to do both a disservice, like it would be to compare, say, Drogba and Del Piero. What they do share, I think, is that competitive quality that makes them both winners. I can't think of a much better central midfield (again, for the 21st century) than Anderson and Cesc together.
Great post Jens.
Well I never said he wasn't (Fabregas is on a different level to plenty of CM in the world), I was just repeating the last verse of the Anderson chant to close my post. Seems like everyone took it seriously.
there is no consistancy with him, and he couldnt hit a barn door.
in saying that, i think he has awesome potential and if he continues in the way the majority of us expect; he WILL be shitting all over fabregas in a few years.
it looks like he has all the physical attributes to do it in the premier league, and we have seen glimpses of his techical ability in bits and pieces. hopefully he can polish his all round game practicing with the likes of scholes and carrick.
the sooner he grabs a goal the better -
in saying that, i think he has awesome potential and if he continues in the way the majority of us expect; he WILL be shitting all over fabregas in a few years.
it looks like he has all the physical attributes to do it in the premier league, and we have seen glimpses of his techical ability in bits and pieces. hopefully he can polish his all round game practicing with the likes of scholes and carrick.
the sooner he grabs a goal the better -
Anderson has fantastic potential. At his age he can go as far as he wants to in the game. We signed him with the future in mind but he immediately starting taking games by the scruff of the neck at a testing time for us. Scholes was injured and people wondered how our midfield would cope. Anderson slotted in effortlessly and looked so comfortable and unfazed there that people began to forget Scholes was missing. Thats the ability we have seen in him and why we believe he can be a great midfielder for us. At the age of 20 he does have obvious weaknesses in his game but we hope to see him improve in all areas as time goes on.
Nice post Jens