[Matt Varnish]

13 yards is virtually a pk…point blank range. The scorer was unmarked and the keeper, who I agree is not an elite shot stopper, was unsighted.

The better argument to flog Onana with is his decision to not even attempt a save on the first shot, however futile it may have been. It was undeniably pretty cringey to watch Onana just watch the ball, which was well placed but it wasn’t exactly a Cole Palmer thunderbolt.

From the posts immediately above it appears you’re a serial Onana hater. I get it, but your hatred is misplaced. He’s a decent keeper, nothing special, but decent at shot stopping (someone here can back that up with stats) but has exceptional footwork. Your hatred would be better directed at club management who got rid of De Gea and treated him like trash on his way out the door. There is no doubt that how the club treated De Gea has had a negative impact on the rest of the squad, but in all fairness we cannot blame Onana for the club’s shambolic transfer decisions under ETH. Onana has to be judged on his own merits and on those merits his shot stopping has been disappointing this season but there’s nothing he could have done to save either shot on goal, and if watch again closely his reaction to the second goal was actually pretty respectable. But his reaction on the first goal was poor, even if it’s true he had no chance of saving the shot.

Hate is strong word and suggests I don't like him as a person, as I don't know him personally, that's a false accusation and a personal attack on me.
I don't hate anyone, not even people who I know, and don't like as people.
I just think he is an inept goalkeeper, who as (lots of) others have said, seems only to be able to save the shots that are directly at him, or those you expect any keeper to save, anything beyond that and it's in the net.

I'm not sure what you mean by "exceptional footwork" if it's how he positions himself, or his distribution, then I disagree, if it's dribbling ability then fine, yes there is no doubt he can play football, call be old fashioned, but I prefer a keeper who when he has to, can stop the ball hitting the net, Onana has difficulty doing that.

Maybe just maybe, he will be better behind a better defence, but what I see, is other keepers stopping similar shots, and actually claiming the ball.
He just doesn't command his area like a keeper of his size should.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

This could easily go in the ETH thread. But I’ll put it here.

One thing I’ve noticed over the past few matches and it’s actually a positive because it looks like we are starting to try and utilise the reason we signed him, is that he is becoming much more involved in our buildup play. Our CB’s and CDM will often look to play it back to him, and he is often much further off his line then 4 plus weeks ago.

It’s now like we have an extra outfield player. It has already led to one indirect assist with a great pass to the left wing, and lots of other good opportunities or simple passes that lead to attacks or at the very least better ball retention.

I think this has gone under the radar a bit and it’s something ETH has clearly started reworking on and Onana is implementing quite well. Early stages but can see this becoming an effective part of our game. He’s basically playing like he did in Inter vs City, but right now the forwards and midfielders either don’t make the runs or more often than not ruin possession.

A positive and something to keep and eye out on how it evolves.

Yeah, I noticed that too. Earlier in the season he was much deeper and much more likely to smash the ball long. Which seemed like a crazy waste of the qualities he was signed to bring to the team.

 

[Oranges038]

Similar to West Ham second goal, Kudus' goal, I questioned his jumping technique for second goal against Nottingham Forests. After the shot was fired, he shifted/withdrew his left leg toward the center of his body before using it to power the jump. This split second action reduced how far he could have dove. He got fingers onto the ball in this case. So a littler better leap might have given him better chance to push the ball. Normally, the leg to power to jump should be planted wherever it was already set when the shot fired.


Not a mistake, but he does seem have inefficient technique which very much explains why he often looks slow, and flat footed for some saveable goals.

I noticed this before, but in the below article from the athletic, they talk about the negative step, which is kind of what I think you are referring to here. He kind of drops his near leg out of the way and pushes off more with his outside leg, if you get the timing wrong like he has been doing, you can end up looking like you're diving after the ball has gone in.

Generally speaking, when diving toward the ball to make a save, the goalkeeper first needs to dig their trailing foot into the ground (think of it like the springboard for the dive) before taking their step with the lead foot in order to push themselves in the direction of the ball to make the save. The problem with the negative step is you are required to drop your lead foot out of the way and shoot down toward the ball without ever getting a true push.

If executed correctly, the negative step can be a big asset to a goalkeeper in moments when the distance between the goalkeeper and striker is small and the reaction time is limited — it allows you to get down to the ball quickly. However, the downside is you will often lack the power that you would normally get if you took a step toward the ball to make the save.

In order to be pulled off correctly, the goalkeeper must get their timing and impact with the ball correct, while also pushing off with all their might toward the ball to make the save. This can be very hard to do well when you’re struggling for confidence.

I'm nowhere near qualified to judge, but I have done some keeper coaching courses and help out with a training session every week with an experienced qualified keeper coach.

For the last couple of days, I've looked at the goals conceded, there's lot of compilations doing the rounds.

For me the big part of his game that just looks wrong are his positioning, his feet and his footwork. How he positions and sets himself to react and how he shifts his feet across the goal. Too often he's kind of on his heels, plants his feet and then tries to dive, on other occasions he almost pushes off the wrong side. He takes a little step one way and then tries to dive the other way and pushes off his right foot going left and his left foot going to his right.

Edit: you might also notice his stance seems to be too wide, his feet are too far apart.

According to an article in theatheltic it was actually regarded during his time at Ajax and they wanted to change it. But they decided against it, because it somehow worked for him, the problem is when his timing is off he will look like a clown.




It's those fractions of a second that are the difference between getting to a shot and looking like you're diving after the ball has gone past you. It's actually quite noticeable when you just watch compilations of the goals he's conceded. If he could sort his feet out, he wouldn't look so laboured when diving for shots.

https://theathletic.com/4940987/2023/10/10/onana-andre-man-utd/

 

[bond19821982]

When is he leaving to Afcon ? If he is out for Spurs game, it's a problem. We can't build from back.

 

[Berbaclass]

When is he leaving to Afcon ? If he is out for Spurs game, it's a problem. We can't build from back.

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[bond19821982]

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Thanks, makes perfect sense.

 

[JediSith]

Yeah, I noticed that too. Earlier in the season he was much deeper and much more likely to smash the ball long. Which seemed like a crazy waste of the qualities he was signed to bring to the team.

I think it was a mix of him getting lobbed in preseason and if I’m not mistaken a few mistakes in the early matches when the CB’s lost the ball. As you say it became frustrating to see the team not play to his strengths and it’s good to see we’re now trying to incorporate his strengths into the system. Can see him creating a lot of openings for our attackers.

 

[James35]

Fed up with stories about this guy and the afcon. He’s been borderline terrible all season but his ego remains intact. Just get gone already and give our second keeper a chance. He surely can’t be any worse.

 

[lex talionis]

Hate is strong word and suggests I don't like him as a person, as I don't know him personally, that's a false accusation and a personal attack on me.
I don't hate anyone, not even people who I know, and don't like as people.
I just think he is an inept goalkeeper, who as (lots of) others have said, seems only to be able to save the shots that are directly at him, or those you expect any keeper to save, anything beyond that and it's in the net.

I'm not sure what you mean by "exceptional footwork" if it's how he positions himself, or his distribution, then I disagree, if it's dribbling ability then fine, yes there is no doubt he can play football, call be old fashioned, but I prefer a keeper who when he has to, can stop the ball hitting the net, Onana has difficulty doing that.

Maybe just maybe, he will be better behind a better defence, but what I see, is other keepers stopping similar shots, and actually claiming the ball.
He just doesn't command his area like a keeper of his size should.

"Hate" enjoys common usage here, which I don't see on other forums or in everyday conversation (and I live in California, where a neologism like "hater" should be right at home here), that doesn't imply anything personal, but simply means that one's mind is made up in condemning a footballer regardless of his performance on any given day. And we see this all the time here where someone puts in an solid performance but gets abused for prior transgressions. There's no serious denial that Onana has largely been shambolic this season but I won't go so far as to argue that he's "inept" and I disagree with you that he performed poorly against Forest. Only in that sense -- refusing to acknowledge any positive attributes to Onana -- are you rightly considered an Onana "hater" in the sense that the word is used on RedCafe but I completely understand that it's nothing personal for you.

As for the substance of your concerns with Onana, he actually has made some very good saves this season. There was the pk in the CL -- but while we're on the subject of the CL not even his most vocal believers here deny that he single-handedly crashed us out of the CL. He's made some very good saves, including one or two against City I think, but even though he's in no way an elite shot stopper he's also not "inept". He does make the saves, as you rightly note, that you expect any keeper to make, which directly undermines your claim that he's inept.

We'll have to leave it at agreeing to disagree, but what I see in his footwork is exceptional ability. I have no stats to back this up, and I don't even know how such stats could be kept, but his passes are crisp and accurate. Earlier in the season he would invite pressure onto himself by putting his foot on top of the ball for 5-6 seconds before releasing it which caused a few problems but in recent matches he's been releasing the ball more quickly, which is great to see. On a few occasions when he's been under pressure he's had to put the ball into touch but so has every other keeper who has ever lived. Where I depart from other posters here is the difference his crisp and accurate has made to our attack. I won't bother looking up the numbers as the conclusion is too obvious to require substantiation, but our attack has been shambolic this season. At this point I want to be sure all snowflakes on here who can't handle the truth are on high alert for what I am about to write -- the entire case for bringing in Onana hinged on the "transformation" his exceptional footwork would bring to our attack.

https://www.fourfourtwo.com/news/ho...onana-tactical-analysis-of-the-cameroonian-gk

How Manchester United will be transformed by the signing of Andre Onana - tactical analysis of the Cameroonian GK

Even if we ignore the daft Beth on The United Stand, Statman Dave isn't as easily ignored:


Manchester United can WIN the Premier League with Onana, Mount & Hojlund! | PL Preview

Not to mention the countless hysterical posts here on the De Gea thread in the days prior to his exile.

On your last point, while I expected the downgrade on shot stopping that we got from Onana and I expected the upgrade we got in keeper footwork from Onana (no one should have expected improved keeper footwork to result in better ball control let alone chance creation or chance conversion but the mania is what it is) but everyone, myself included, expected Onana to be vastly superior with his command of the box and in this respect you and I are in perfect agreement that he's no upgrade on De Gea. There's actually a good reason for keepers not to fling themselves into crowds as the risk-reward of coming out for crosses is often not worth it. But on too many occasions we saw De Gea rooted to his line and we see that now with Onana. The first Villa goal was a not only criminal by Onana, it was a felony offense. Everything was in front of him, he could and should have cleared the ball but instead he let the ball literally hit the ground less than two yards from the goal line. Why? Impossible to say, but it was horror keeping on his part that will soon be forgotten as won the game.

But against Forest both goals were unsavable by most keepers. The first was out of reach for any keeper but the second, although an exceptional shot, was the kind of shot that we were used to seeing De Gea routinely make.

 

[RedRocket9908]

Hopefully we are able to have him in goal for the Spurs game but its going to tough to get permission when Cameroon play their first game the next day.

 

[Matt Varnish]

"Hate" enjoys common usage here, which I don't see on other forums or in everyday conversation (and I live in California, where a neologism like "hater" should be right at home here), that doesn't imply anything personal, but simply means that one's mind is made up in condemning a footballer regardless of his performance on any given day. And we see this all the time here where someone puts in an solid performance but gets abused for prior transgressions. There's no serious denial that Onana has largely been shambolic this season but I won't go so far as to argue that he's "inept" and I disagree with you that he performed poorly against Forest. Only in that sense -- refusing to acknowledge any positive attributes to Onana -- are you rightly considered an Onana "hater" in the sense that the word is used on RedCafe but I completely understand that it's nothing personal for you.

As for the substance of your concerns with Onana, he actually has made some very good saves this season. There was the pk in the CL -- but while we're on the subject of the CL not even his most vocal believers here deny that he single-handedly crashed us out of the CL. He's made some very good saves, including one or two against City I think, but even though he's in no way an elite shot stopper he's also not "inept". He does make the saves, as you rightly note, that you expect any keeper to make, which directly undermines your claim that he's inept.

We'll have to leave it at agreeing to disagree, but what I see in his footwork is exceptional ability. I have no stats to back this up, and I don't even know how such stats could be kept, but his passes are crisp and accurate. Earlier in the season he would invite pressure onto himself by putting his foot on top of the ball for 5-6 seconds before releasing it which caused a few problems but in recent matches he's been releasing the ball more quickly, which is great to see. On a few occasions when he's been under pressure he's had to put the ball into touch but so has every other keeper who has ever lived. Where I depart from other posters here is the difference his crisp and accurate has made to our attack. I won't bother looking up the numbers as the conclusion is too obvious to require substantiation, but our attack has been shambolic this season. At this point I want to be sure all snowflakes on here who can't handle the truth are on high alert for what I am about to write -- the entire case for bringing in Onana hinged on the "transformation" his exceptional footwork would bring to our attack.

https://www.fourfourtwo.com/news/ho...onana-tactical-analysis-of-the-cameroonian-gk

How Manchester United will be transformed by the signing of Andre Onana - tactical analysis of the Cameroonian GK

Even if we ignore the daft Beth on The United Stand, Statman Dave isn't as easily ignored:


Manchester United can WIN the Premier League with Onana, Mount & Hojlund! | PL Preview

Not to mention the countless hysterical posts here on the De Gea thread in the days prior to his exile.

On your last point, while I expected the downgrade on shot stopping that we got from Onana and I expected the upgrade we got in keeper footwork from Onana (no one should have expected improved keeper footwork to result in better ball control let alone chance creation or chance conversion but the mania is what it is) but everyone, myself included, expected Onana to be vastly superior with his command of the box and in this respect you and I are in perfect agreement that he's no upgrade on De Gea. There's actually a good reason for keepers not to fling themselves into crowds as the risk-reward of coming out for crosses is often not worth it. But on too many occasions we saw De Gea rooted to his line and we see that now with Onana. The first Villa goal was a not only criminal by Onana, it was a felony offense. Everything was in front of him, he could and should have cleared the ball but instead he let the ball literally hit the ground less than two yards from the goal line. Why? Impossible to say, but it was horror keeping on his part that will soon be forgotten as won the game.

But against Forest both goals were unsavable by most keepers. The first was out of reach for any keeper but the second, although an exceptional shot, was the kind of shot that we were used to seeing De Gea routinely make.

All great points, and I thank you for a reasoned debate, you've explained your points very well.
You mention De Gea a lot, and I agree with what you say about him, however I have witnessed quite a few keepers at United, in fact all of them since Stepney, and yes they all had howlers, but not with the frequency as a seasoned international that Onana has had in his first months at United.
I also have to disagree about the two Forest goals, prior to the first goal, Forest had attempted the same move on at least one, and even possibly two occasions, so he should have been aware of it, whether or not he could have saved the first is again up for debate, but I would argue that a prime Schmiechel or VDS would not have stood there and watched it go in the net.
The second Forest goal was a carbon copy of the first, yes it was well placed, however he is late diving, his lack of spring and athleticism lets him down on shots close to the ground, and that is where he concedes most.
Myself, I don't believe that his perceived great footwork, is adequate compensation for his lack of shot stopping ability, but that's just me.

I don't judge a player on stats, especially percentages, a wise man once said there are lies, damn lies, then there are statistics.
I did say that maybe he would be better in front of a better defence, but thinking about it, he's had Dalot/AWB, Varanne, Maguire and Shaw in front of him at times, so he's had the chance to perform well, four of whom are/were internationals.
My own take on it is that our defence is nervous playing in front of him, just my perception.

Finally "Do I see signs of improvement in him" admittedly yes and no, just as I think he's turned a corner, another mistake happens that costs us the game.

 

[lex talionis]

All great points, and I thank you for a reasoned debate, you've explained your points very well.
You mention De Gea a lot, and I agree with what you say about him, however I have witnessed quite a few keepers at United, in fact all of them since Stepney, and yes they all had howlers, but not with the frequency as a seasoned international that Onana has had in his first months at United.
I also have to disagree about the two Forest goals, prior to the first goal, Forest had attempted the same move on at least one, and even possibly two occasions, so he should have been aware of it, whether or not he could have saved the first is again up for debate, but I would argue that a prime Schmiechel or VDS would not have stood there and watched it go in the net.
The second Forest goal was a carbon copy of the first, yes it was well placed, however he is late diving, his lack of spring and athleticism lets him down on shots close to the ground, and that is where he concedes most.
Myself, I don't believe that his perceived great footwork, is adequate compensation for his lack of shot stopping ability, but that's just me.

I don't judge a player on stats, especially percentages, a wise man once said there are lies, damn lies, then there are statistics.
I did say that maybe he would be better in front of a better defence, but thinking about it, he's had Dalot/AWB, Varanne, Maguire and Shaw in front of him at times, so he's had the chance to perform well, four of whom are/were internationals.
My own take on it is that our defence is nervous playing in front of him, just my perception.

Finally "Do I see signs of improvement in him" admittedly yes and no, just as I think he's turned a corner, another mistake happens that costs us the game.

I like your train of thought, though it remains to be seen whether any of Onana's believers are paying attention to it.

On the first point I've bolded, there is no excuse for a 27 year old who featured for Inter to have had as shambolic a first six months as Onana has. All I can say is that the pressure any United keeper has to deal with is intense beyond all belief. De Gea as a teenager handled it better than Onana as a 27 year old De Gea as a 32 year old handled himself better last season than Onana has this season, when he should have been able to find his composure after a month at most.

On the second point let's agree to disagree. I do agree that Pete, Edwin and Dave all would have attempted a save, but Andre just stood there like a lost puppy looking for his master. But there was way he was going to save that shot.

On the third point, what gets overlooked here is how shambolic our back lines have been since the day De Gea arrived. Onana has not been dealt a great hand either, but it can't be argued that Dave was ever dealt a better hand in terms of his defenders.

All we can do is hope that Onana will turn a corner, but it always seems to be one step forward and then one step backward with him. We shall see what kind of man returns from his AFCON duties.

 

[Bondi77]

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If we need him to beat Wigan then it is worse than what I thought

 

[FrankWhite]

If we need him to beat Wigan then it is worse than what I thought

We don't need him. He's clearly scared of losing his place the the number 2.

 

[Plant0x84]

Fed up with stories about this guy and the afcon. He’s been borderline terrible all season but his ego remains intact. Just get gone already and give our second keeper a chance. He surely can’t be any worse.

Famous last words….

 

[Bondi77]

We don't need him. He's clearly scared of losing his place the the number 2.

Don't you mean to the No.1?

 

[Waynne]

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I'd honestly take our chances with the reserve goalkeeper at this point.

 

[Matt Varnish]

I like your train of thought, though it remains to be seen whether any of Onana's believers are paying attention to it.

On the first point I've bolded, there is no excuse for a 27 year old who featured for Inter to have had as shambolic a first six months as Onana has. All I can say is that the pressure any United keeper has to deal with is intense beyond all belief. De Gea as a teenager handled it better than Onana as a 27 year old De Gea as a 32 year old handled himself better last season than Onana has this season, when he should have been able to find his composure after a month at most.

On the second point let's agree to disagree. I do agree that Pete, Edwin and Dave all would have attempted a save, but Andre just stood there like a lost puppy looking for his master. But there was way he was going to save that shot.

On the third point, what gets overlooked here is how shambolic our back lines have been since the day De Gea arrived. Onana has not been dealt a great hand either, but it can't be argued that Dave was ever dealt a better hand in terms of his defenders.

All we can do is hope that Onana will turn a corner, but it always seems to be one step forward and then one step backward with him. We shall see what kind of man returns from his AFCON duties.

In my defence about what is saveable and what is not, as an example I would point you towards Areola for West Ham last night against Brighton. Steele for Brighton makes saves that I think Onana would fail to stop. The game ended 0-0 mainly thanks to Areola, a keeper who for me is built like a keeper, I watched the whole game, the way he commands his area is what I like to see, in the dying seconds a Brighton player has a "free" shot on goal, but Areola rushes out to him, and the shot goes high wide and handsome.
I would much prefer a keeper who does that, than one who can lob a hopeful ball forward towards one of players in the hope he gets on the end of it, but that's just me.

 

[arthurka]

Wait thought he was gold because he stopped playing for his nation. But he should rest easy knowing that he has set the bar very low for his understudy.

 

[Rossa]

I don't care about stats showing that he has the 2nd highest saving percantage in the league. It's a fairly obvious case of stats only showing half the picture. Looking at the Everton match, for instance. Everton had an xG of 2.5 versus United 2.07 (understat.com). So according to that stat, Everton should have scored more than United, and subsequently Onana performed very well. Having watched the match, however, most of the shots that he did save were of a terribly low quality. Calvert Lewin cut in from the right, had a great scoring opportunity only to fluff his shot. Then later on he had a free header from 6 yards, and he fluffed that too. Onana made saves, but they were very easy. He made a great save from a long range shot, but that had a very low xG, so further illustrates how poor that metric can be.

His shot stopping isn't very good. It's not terrible, but it's not great. Even his good save against Forest was made to look better because he took a step in the wrong direction first, clearly wrongly anticipating where the shot was going (DDG was great at anticipating, btw, as was VDS). When Schmeichel argues that he has questionable technique, there's something to it. Even for Gibbs-White's scoring, which cannot be labelled a mistake, his technique is mostly to get into the air and fall flat down. He doesn't really move much to the side. Low shots seems to be his achilles - the way he gets to the side and down is ponderous at best. I recall Hart being rather poor at this as well.

 

[NotChatGPT]

I find the whole narrative a bit funny. There was no end to the improvements we’d instantly see by replacing De Gea with a more progressive goalkeeper. Obviously we’d lose out in terms of De Geas reflex saves, but then the narrative became that we wouldn’t need it anyways as it was De Geas inability to command his defence that resulted in those type of saves. Now Onana is the victim of playing behind a shit defence.

It’s becoming increasingly difficult to keep up with things.

It genuinely looks like he’s doubting himself, ever since pre-season. Obviously the amount of massive feckups in the CL have been annoying, but shit happens. What disappoints me the most is that he’s regressed to a point where we don’t even get the upside of his aggressiveness, most of the time, even with 1 vs 1 situations, he’s glued to the line as. You accept the occasional feckup on the basis that his overall play compensates for it, but right now he’s as useful as a pornstar that can’t get an erection.

 

[André Dominguez]

We're stuck with him due to his price, I guess. If he had costed 30 quid or less he would be benched for some games, for sure.

 

[Litch]

I find the whole narrative a bit funny. There was no end to the improvements we’d instantly see by replacing De Gea with a more progressive goalkeeper. Obviously we’d lose out in terms of De Geas reflex saves, but then the narrative became that we wouldn’t need it anyways as it was De Geas inability to command his defence that resulted in those type of saves. Now Onana is the victim of playing behind a shit defence.

It’s becoming increasingly difficult to keep up with things.

It genuinely looks like he’s doubting himself, ever since pre-season. Obviously the amount of massive feckups in the CL have been annoying, but shit happens. What disappoints me the most is that he’s regressed to a point where we don’t even get the upside of his aggressiveness, most of the time, even with 1 vs 1 situations, he’s glued to the line as. You accept the occasional feckup on the basis that his overall play compensates for it, but right now he’s as useful as a pornstar that can’t get an erection.

Agree and there is a long queue of others that have gone or going the same way at Utd..including the manager!!!

 

[El Jefe]

I also don’t care for the stats or save percentage. I always feel like the best goalkeepers make you feel at ease, VDS was the master of this. He didn’t make the flashiest saves but you felt so comfortable that he would deal with any issue confidently in an assured manner. This translated to the back four and was a big part of why we were so composed in dealing with attacks.

Onana on the other hand has me panicking anytime there is a shot on target or a ball put into the box. If nothing comes of it the stats can look good but the sense of panic and chaos he brings has a knock on effect on the team and how we defend in certain moments.

The biggest thing for a goalie is trust and I don’t think anyone here can confidently say they trust Onana and I’m sure the defenders feel the same way.

 

[TheRedDevil'sAdvocate]

One of the reasons we felt comfortable with VdS between the sticks was that he was afforded the luxury of one of the top-3 back-four lines in PL history ahead of him. And it still took all of them about a full season to settle in and gel together. Put VdS in a team like this one, when every cut-back basically creates a penalty shot, and see how commanding and reassuring he will look after a while.

Another thing is that Ferguson, probably after realizing how touch a task it was to adequately replace Schmeichel, made everything in his power to accommodate his choices. Edwin was a part of a new (then) tactical set-up which was more conservative and aimed at better consistency through better control. In this sense, he wasn't brought in to replace Big Pete, but to be his own man. De Gea was also signed as a part of a side that wanted to take more attacking risks again (after the Barça revolution) and needed his ace reflexes. And despite the carrot and stick management in his early days at the club, Ferguson fully protected him. Both in 11/12 & 12/13, United, once they transitioned into defensive positions, simply couldn't defend deeper and narrower even if they wanted to.

I'm not arguing that Onana will become great with a snap of the fingers. But ETH has done very little to integrate him into a tactical set-up that will give him a chance to show some of his better qualities. It's a bit unfair, that's all.

 

[Litch]

I also don’t care for the stats or save percentage. I always feel like the best goalkeepers make you feel at ease, VDS was the master of this. He didn’t make the flashiest saves but you felt so comfortable that he would deal with any issue confidently in an assured manner. This translated to the back four and was a big part of why we were so composed in dealing with attacks.

Onana on the other hand has me panicking anytime there is a shot on target or a ball put into the box. If nothing comes of it the stats can look good but the sense of panic and chaos he brings has a knock on effect on the team and how we defend in certain moments.

The biggest thing for a goalie is trust and I don’t think anyone here can confidently say they trust Onana and I’m sure the defenders feel the same way.

Sounds like every keeper's start at the club, even the ones that went on to be legends. To be honest, pretty much most keepers in the PL too. You think Arsenal are still happy about selling the world cup winning keeper, now at Villa?

Not saying hes 'the one', just hard to say given the context of the team and 10+ different defensive partnerships in front of him, hardly conducive with easing you into a new league.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

I don't care about stats showing that he has the 2nd highest saving percantage in the league. It's a fairly obvious case of stats only showing half the picture. Looking at the Everton match, for instance. Everton had an xG of 2.5 versus United 2.07 (understat.com). So according to that stat, Everton should have scored more than United, and subsequently Onana performed very well. Having watched the match, however, most of the shots that he did save were of a terribly low quality. Calvert Lewin cut in from the right, had a great scoring opportunity only to fluff his shot. Then later on he had a free header from 6 yards, and he fluffed that too. Onana made saves, but they were very easy. He made a great save from a long range shot, but that had a very low xG, so further illustrates how poor that metric can be.

His shot stopping isn't very good. It's not terrible, but it's not great. Even his good save against Forest was made to look better because he took a step in the wrong direction first, clearly wrongly anticipating where the shot was going (DDG was great at anticipating, btw, as was VDS). When Schmeichel argues that he has questionable technique, there's something to it. Even for Gibbs-White's scoring, which cannot be labelled a mistake, his technique is mostly to get into the air and fall flat down. He doesn't really move much to the side. Low shots seems to be his achilles - the way he gets to the side and down is ponderous at best. I recall Hart being rather poor at this as well.

You've just given a great example of how stats are better than memory, which is often flawed. You say all of Onana' saves were "very easy" which is wrong. Long range shot aside, he also made an excellent double save after a shot from DCL, in the passage of play which ended up wit Mainoo clearing the ball off our line.


0:35s

 

[Matt Varnish]

Sounds like every keeper's start at the club, even the ones that went on to be legends. To be honest, pretty much most keepers in the PL too. You think Arsenal are still happy about selling the world cup winning keeper, now at Villa?

Not saying hes 'the one', just hard to say given the context of the team and 10+ different defensive partnerships in front of him, hardly conducive with easing you into a new league.

In his first 20 games VDS kept 10 clean sheets, so not like every keepers start at the club.
As has been said before Onana is not raw, he is a senior player with previous CL and International appearances under his belt.

 

[Red00012]

If we need him to beat Wigan then it is worse than what I thought

It’s for the Spurs game not Wigan

 

[Matt Varnish]

You've just given a great example of how stats are better than memory, which is often flawed. You say all of Onana' saves were "very easy" which is wrong. Long range shot aside, he also made an excellent double save after a shot from DCL, in the passage of play which ended up wit Mainoo clearing the ball off our line.


0:35s

He makes one decent save from Ogana.
His blushes are saved when Mainoo clears off the line after he's palmed one save out to McNeil, hardly a good example to show off how good he is.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

He makes one decent save from Ogana.
His blushes are saved when Mainoo clears off the line after he's palmed one save out to McNeil, hardly a good example to show off how good he is.

Again. Another example of bad memory and/or not paying enough attention. You’re all just confirming the benefit of stats.

The Mainoo clearance came after a good save from DCL followed by a good block on the McNeil follow-up, which Maguire accidentally deflected back towards goal, hence Mainoo got involved.

 

[Oranges038]

Again. Another example of bad memory and/or not paying enough attention. You’re all just confirming the benefit of stats.

The Mainoo clearance came after a good save from DCL followed by a good block on the McNeil follow-up, which Maguire accidentally deflected back towards goal, hence Mainoo got involved.

Forget about the stats and videos, he doesn't make saves you expect other keepers to make and he also doesn't make the saves you don't expect him to make.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

Forget about the stats and videos, he doesn't make saves you expect other keepers to make and he also doesn't make the saves you don't expect him to make.

That’s a very confusing sentence.

 

[Matt Varnish]

Again. Another example of bad memory and/or not paying enough attention. You’re all just confirming the benefit of stats.

The Mainoo clearance came after a good save from DCL followed by a good block on the McNeil follow-up, which Maguire accidentally deflected back towards goal, hence Mainoo got involved.

Hardly bad memory, I watched the video you posted !

Here's a link for you Welcome to Specsavers Opticians | Specsavers UK

 

[Oranges038]

That’s a very confusing sentence.

Stats suggest he's quite a solid and reliable shot stopper, but that's the logic that's being applied here.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

Hardly bad memory, I watched the video you posted !

Here's a link for you Welcome to Specsavers Opticians | Specsavers UK

Oh right. You’re just thick. My bad. As you were.

 

[Matt Varnish]

Oh right. You’re just thick. My bad. As you were.

Oh WOW insults now

 

[Rossa]

You've just given a great example of how stats are better than memory, which is often flawed. You say all of Onana' saves were "very easy" which is wrong. Long range shot aside, he also made an excellent double save after a shot from DCL, in the passage of play which ended up wit Mainoo clearing the ball off our line.


0:35s

The video didn't work for me, but I found another - genius!

Again, the shot from Calvert Lewin looks great at first, but it's a bobbly shot - not very hard. If Onana doesn't save that, it's more of a mistake than anything else. I thought it was a worldie at first sight, but it's not. The second, he's a little lucky - he gets up quickly enough, but there's no great goalkeeping preventing the goal, and he fluffs it into another player and then Mainoo saves it.

You didn't comment on the two other shots - the header and the low shot?

 

[Pogue Mahone]

The video didn't work for me, but I found another - genius!

Again, the shot from Calvert Lewin looks great at first, but it's a bobbly shot - not very hard. If Onana doesn't save that, it's more of a mistake than anything else. I thought it was a worldie at first sight, but it's not. The second, he's a little lucky - he gets up quickly enough, but there's no great goalkeeping preventing the goal, and he fluffs it into another player and then Mainoo saves it.

You didn't comment on the two other shots - the header and the low shot?

Getting up quickly after sprawling to save a low shot is much more difficult than it looks. That second save was quality. He didn’t “fluff it into another player “. He did his job, blocking the shot. Not his fault that Maguire charges into him at that moment.

The other two saves (header and low shot) were routine enough. That double save was of similar quality to the one from the long range shot. My point is that neither of those incidents were “very easy” saves, which is how you seem to remember them.

 

[Rossa]

Getting up quickly after sprawling to save a low shot is much more difficult than it looks. That second save was quality. He didn’t “fluff it into another player “. He did his job, blocking the shot. Not his fault that Maguire charges into him at that moment.

The other two saves (header and low shot) were routine enough. That double save was of similar quality to the one from the long range shot. My point is that neither of those incidents were “very easy” saves, which is how you seem to remember them.

Agreed that one of them wasn't easy - but it's expected saves - not ones that I would remember as good saves.

Simple question is - how do you rate his shot stopping, thus far at United?