[ScholesyTheWise]

Remember when the essay writers told the forum that a ball playing keeper will help the team score goals? Yeah, that's not exactly how things work.

I can see the logic in such a line of thought, whereby-
Onana as a ball-playing GK, Martinez as a ball-playing CB, Casemiro&Eriksen (or younger like-for-like replacements of them) as midfielders who give us control in the middle of the park and also dictate play, and our attack which still would have been shit, mind you...

With ETH being able to orchestrate all that, apparently.

I can see why it was tempting.

But Martinez is injured, Casemiro and Eriksen seem to have lost their legs a/o mojo faster than many posters thought they would,
Onana was sold to many of us who didn't watch him regularly (most of the forum? Safe to assume, I'd say) as this amazing ball-playing specialist who's also quite okay at actual goalkeeping...

The entire scenario was built on some very very optimistic presumptions.
Even with no injuries to our key players, this is a style of play that's very hard to implement at a high level, and the risks are huge.
Hardly surprising how things unfolded.

 

[el3mel]

Except his reactions are generally fine. His save percentage is higher than most keepers in the prem. People are more pissed off cause of his errors, and understandably so. Those however are just as likely to be due to first season anxiety as much as anything else. I think it's something he will get better at because historically, he hasnt made this many errors!

Look I get it, it's so easy to look at it and assume he will not get better, but there is a few things to consider here. The first is, we absolutely have not been set up to maximise his strengths. That is as much to do with personnel as anything else and hopefully, in time, as the squad is turned over, that comes to the fore. You have to look at the bigger picture and not just the last three months. Where is our playing style heading towards in the next 2-3 years? The younger purchases like Martinez, Mount, and Onana, hojlund plus players like Mainoo and garnacho coming into the team means that we want to be better technically and be able to pass more . The limitations of most of the other players in possession and intensity means our performances are wildly inconsistent. Simply put, the individuals in the squad don't have complimentary attributes to execute a style of play that is consistently good. So we must commit to building a squad that can execute a style of play, otherwise the next manager comes in and wants a change of style, so no longer sees value in playing martinez, onana and mount. This is not sustainable. We have to commit to this and see it through, regardless of how painful it'll be. I've seen enough decent passing to think, with a little more confidence and more complimentary players around him, he will come good.

The second point is, as far as I can tell all goal keepers are making huge errors. Look at the arsenal keepers, they have been terrible. Alisson has made several mistakes, as has Edersen and the new spurs keeper. But the big difference is their forwards have scored double what we have so there's even more pressure on our backline to not concede. The grass is not always greener.

If there is a golden opportunity to bring a keeper on the cheap to compete and replace Onana, then sure, let's go for it. but the reality is. if we deem him surplus to requirements then we will not be able to recoup what we paid, meaning we won't have much money to buy a new gk especially given our ffp troubles. Whether you like it or not. He is here to stay so rather than putting him down, it's better to put up with these teething problems, get behind him, and believe in the longer term planning of the squad.

They are far from fine. Watch videos for the goals he shipped this season and you realize they aren't. Even the balls he saved, his technique in stopping them was pretty awful and let the ball fall in more dangerous areas.

 

[Annihilate Now!]

Everyone here is so toxic. It's a one on one from 5 yards out with no pressure on him. That is never on him! People just love to moan about everything! Apparently he offered nothing at all. Well i think his passing was decent today. He put through dalot with a great pass.

Havign said that, we are out of the Cl cause of him. But how about we have some patience and give a player more than a few months before completely claiming we need to sell. That's just not sustainable! It's like people don't live in the real world in this forum!

Nobody is saying it's on him... However he basically gave himself a zero percent chance to save that shot, and that quite frankly is not good goalkeeping, whatever way you slice it.

 

[Rake]

Nobody is saying it's on him... However he basically gave himself a zero percent chance to save that shot, and that quite frankly is not good goalkeeping, whatever way you slice it.

Yeah, agree with this. Can't be blamed for the goal, but the GK should always make himself big in such situations. Just staying glued to his line immensely increases the options a striker has.

Can't recall him being glued to his line in such situations when doing a bit of research on him before he signed, might have forgotten. He sure looked ready to close players down during pre-season.

 

[Longshanks]

Not sure it would of made much difference but really should of closed Coman down for the goal, at least give yourself a chance. Looked like he was going to then didn't. Very much the confused thinking of a player struggling for form.

I was very much in the De Gea out camp, and I believe he had to go. But for the life of me I can't work out why we signed Onana. He is obviously a very capable and confident ball player but we basically use him to play simple passes around the back and then hit long balls towards the forwards. We may aswell had kept Henderson and played him if that's what the plan was Henderson could also play confidently enough with the ball at his feet to do that and he also had a good long kick on him. His all round keeping is arguably better aswell, certainly wouldn't of been any worse than what Onana has been anyway.

Strikes me as as a panic signing, signed on the back of The CL final and the fact that ETH has worked with him before. Probably won't be such a bad thing when he goes to the AFCON.

 

[Josh 76]

Yeah, agree with this. Can't be blamed for the goal, but the GK should always make himself big in such situations. Just staying glued to his line immensely increases the options a striker has.

Can't recall him being glued to his line in such situations when doing a bit of research on him before he signed, might have forgotten. He sure looked ready to close players down during pre-season.

The goal was very strange. Common had so much time, he even looked shocked!

 

[Rake]

The goal was very strange. Common had so much time, he even looked shocked!

I guess it is a trade-off. Onana has more time to react but the striker has more time and options as well. Pretty sure this favors the attacker in most situations.

 

[frostbite]

The goal was very strange. Common had so much time, he even looked shocked!

Basically... he fell down. As usual. That's his style, he has done this often.

 

[mk7]

Nobody is saying it's on him... However he basically gave himself a zero percent chance to save that shot, and that quite frankly is not good goalkeeping, whatever way you slice it.

I also got the impression that if he rushed out he could have put pressure on Coman to fluff his shot like his team mates did before ... Deer in the headlights moment.

 

[DickDastardly]

Stuck with this guy.

 

[UnitedSofa]

Basically cost us UCL. Both Galarasary games and one Copenhagen game, we should have won them all.

 

[UnitedSofa]

Basically... he fell down. As usual. That's his style, he has done this often.

He’s 6’2 but every time he lets a goal in he looks incredibly short when he dives for the ball.

 

[TrustInJanuzaj]

The pile on is ridiculous. Yes he’s been poor in Europe but why are people piling on him after a good overall game against Bayern last night? It’s bizarre.

 

[Stack]

https://twitter.com/home?post_id=1734577257279049851

This guy is fecking useless.
The good news is that because he is good with his feet he will be setting up so many goals.... oh wait....

 

[MoskvaRed]

I'm always a bit more patient in a player's first season. You'd think that the Players' Performance Threads of Vidic or Evra would have looked exactly the same as Onana's. There's always a chance for a player to turn it around, I guess.

But yeah, this looks really, really bad.
Looks like another one of ETH's signings where the area on the pitch that needed improving upon was correctly identified,
but the player that was signed as an upgrade turns out to be a failure.

10-15 years ago, when there were more Pulis-style teams around, I would have had more sympathy for a goalkeeper moving to the Premier League - a bit like how De Gea was given time to develop after some struggles against the high ball in his debut 2011-2012 season. These days, however, it’s much less obvious why an experienced keeper from overseas should need a period of adaptation. Also, Onana has been particularly awful in the European games. Sadly, I think we were sold (another) pup.

 

[TrustInJanuzaj]

I don't know, I haven't seen a big difference between his distribution and De Gea's (granted I haven't watched every match, particularly in the Champion's League.) I'm very worried about him.

Really? Is distribution is clearly levels above De Gea, he’s comfortable on either foot and his passing is crisp. That’s not even mentioning the fantastic diagonal balls he’s been capable of (which I don’t think De Gea ever did once here!). Of all the things to critique his ball playing is clearly not one, he’s doing turns on the halfway line around opposition players ffs.

 

[Oranges038]

The pile on is ridiculous. Yes he’s been poor in Europe but why are people piling on him after a good overall game against Bayern last night? It’s bizarre.

Because he conceded a 1v1 from 8 yards that they reckon DDG would have saved... a player who was regularly criticised for not being brave enough, making himself smaller and shying away from contact on close range 1v1s. Ones against Everton, Young Boys, Leipzig, Burnley are just a few off the top of my head where he curled away from contact.

#DeGea struggles with close range 1v1s continue!

His decision making is good, as he doesn’t engage too soon & only engages once he cannot to react in time to the shot, but his problem is, as always, the way he twists his body away from contact which leaves gaps in his barrier!

https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1491385573579362305.html

 

[TrustInJanuzaj]

Because he conceded a 1v1 from 8 yards that they reckon DDG would have saved... a player who was regularly criticised for not being brave enough, making himself smaller and shying away from contact on close range 1v1s. Ones against Everton, Young Boys, Leipzig, Burnley are just a few off the top of my head where he curled away from contact.




https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1491385573579362305.html

This thread is just exactly as I knew it would be. Yes Onana has had some poor games but there’s a large cult of De Gea on here that weee never going to give a new keeper a chance. The ironic thing is those same posters were in here last season saying “you’ll be the ones throwing the new keeper under the bus”. Yet it was obvious even then that they would be the ones doing the majority of the criticism because they couldn’t accept that De Gea was well past it and frankly pretty crap.

 

[arnie_ni]

Not inclined to be overly-critical for the goal as a lot went wrong prior to that, but if De Gea had conceded while rooted to the line like that he would definitely have been criticised for it. Though in fairness to Onana, in his case that isn't as typical a fault.

He'd have been destroyed for staying on his line no doubt.

Don't think onana had much change but I'd just like him to have closed the gap and make the striker make a decision. Coman had all the time in the world and just picked his spot.

 

[arnie_ni]

Of course it’s possible to simultaneously believe that:

1) he probably would have never saved that regardless.

2) it was truly bizarre decision-making to stay on his line, and he should have rushed out and given himself a small chance of saving it.

Nothing more needs said really.

 

[David De Gea]

I see it time and time again he seems to lack some of the basic technical qualities of a top goalkeeper. Last night, while not a clanger, was another example of his incredibly unorthodox goalkeeping. The first thing I noticed was the huge space he'd left on one side of the goal, not rushing the player at all to try close the angle. That's absolutely basic stuff and the sort of thing you'd see with a stand-in playing amateur football. Those nets are huge, you stand in one part you have no chance.

I really don't care what the save percentage stats or clean sheet stats say, it doesn't change what I see with my eyes. Even his supposed good games where he's made a couple of saves, I don't see him making saves you don't expect the keeper to make and yet he gets praised to high heaven for those because at least he hasn't chucked another one in.

His technique on the saves he does make is really questionable and it's an absolute lottery where the ball will end up as he doesn't seem to have the ability to direct a ball from saves. It's hits off him at these odd angles. That second free kick against Galatasary, notice how he has hands in a fist the whole time. Like it's his default option to parry and not even parry in a controlled manner, just thump it. Then because he's been gearing for the thump the whole time he can't change in time to collect what really should have been a simple catch.

I was obviously a massive DDG fan but even I could admit it was time for him to move on. It just seems to me we've managed to go backwards as much as anything. The only positive I see is that when ETH inevitably goes I can see whoever his replacement is moving back to a traditional goalkeeping goalkeeper pretty quickly cause this guy is just a calamity.

 

[Stack]

This thread is just exactly as I knew it would be. Yes Onana has had some poor games but there’s a large cult of De Gea on here that weee never going to give a new keeper a chance. The ironic thing is those same posters were in here last season saying “you’ll be the ones throwing the new keeper under the bus”. Yet it was obvious even then that they would be the ones doing the majority of the criticism because they couldn’t accept that De Gea was well past it and frankly pretty crap.

He is shit, I gave him a fair chance. I mentioned a few times I quite liked his character. The trouble is you are so stuck in the Onana v DDG thing you cant see the wood for the trees. He is hopeless, simply not good enough.

 

[Neilwij]

I'll still say this until the cows come home it was the right time to get rid of De Gea he had been making mistakes in the last few seasons. However Onana is clearly not the right keeper to go for, instead of going for the usual ex ten hag players they should have scouted other options outthere instead of letting the manager dictate who we sign.

 

[TrustInJanuzaj]

He is shit, I gave him a fair chance. I mentioned a few times I quite liked his character. The trouble is you are so stuck in the Onana v DDG thing you cant see the wood for the trees. He is hopeless, simply not good enough.

He isn't. He is decent enough and in a top team he would be fine. He is nowhere near as bad as some are making out however, if he can't cut out the mistakes then we will probably have to look to upgrade down the line. This was never about De Gea v Onana. De Gea was finished so we absolutely needed a new keeper.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

First instinct a goalkeeper should have when someone is put through on goal is to rush out. He doesn't have it. He either freezes or backpedals.

It's a major flaw in his game. He's either shit scared or just a very bad goalkeeper. I'm guessing it's the first one. Not sure he has the mentality to play for Untied. Most of our current players don't, to be fair.

Not true. Look where he met the attacker when Bournemouth had their fourth disallowed. Or when he blocked a shot from Jackson against Chelsea. He did a similar one v one save against Everton too. He’s well capable of coming off his line to meet an incoming attacker and has done it plenty of times.

 

[Stack]

He isn't. He is decent enough and in a top team he would be fine. He is nowhere near as bad as some are making out however, if he can't cut out the mistakes then we will probably have to look to upgrade down the line. This was never about De Gea v Onana. De Gea was finished so we absolutely needed a new keeper.

You brought up the DDG thing in the post I replied to, it is a thing for you.
Onana is hopeless. Wake up.

 

[Lyng]

I thought he had a decent game? Cant blame him at all for their goal.

 

[Oranges038]

This thread is just exactly as I knew it would be. Yes Onana has had some poor games but there’s a large cult of De Gea on here that weee never going to give a new keeper a chance. The ironic thing is those same posters were in here last season saying “you’ll be the ones throwing the new keeper under the bus”. Yet it was obvious even then that they would be the ones doing the majority of the criticism because they couldn’t accept that De Gea was well past it and frankly pretty crap.

Statistically theres not one area of goalkeeping where he's been massively worse than DDG over the last 5 years.

When you upgrade, you expect to see an upgrade on the pitch.

He's been no worse, nor has he been significantly better.

 

[TrustInJanuzaj]

You brought up the DDG thing in the post I replied to, it is a thing for you.
Onana is hopeless. Wake up.

Because the agenda amongst a portion of fans is so obvious it needs saying. But you exaggerating things also does nobody any favours either as he's clearly not hopeless.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

I thought he had a decent game? Cant blame him at all for their goal.

Yeah, he was ok. Distribution very good and mopped up well outside his box. Plus played the single best pass of any United player over 90 minutes. No chance with the goal.

 

[TrustInJanuzaj]

Statistically theres not one area of goalkeeping where he's been massively worse than DDG over the last 5 years.

I still wouldn't swap last seasons De Gea for Onana that's for sure. Having said that I wouldn't mind a better keeper than both!

 

[KiD MoYeS]

He didn't cost us last night, but he has cost us the group. He has half a season to prove himself here. He should also be wary Ten Hag's inevitable successor won't rate him.

 

[arnie_ni]

Statistically theres not one area of goalkeeping where he's been massively worse than DDG over the last 5 years.

When you upgrade, you expect to see an upgrade on the pitch.

He's been no worse, nor has he been significantly better.

The difference between your critique of onana and ddg is mind boggling. It's almost as if you've campaigned so long for a new keeper you don't want to be embarrassed by him not working out.

Both things can be true. Ddg need moved on and onana isn't the answer.

Thinking we need to look for a new keeper in the summer, doesn't mean it wasn't correct to move on from ddg. I just wish you'd analyse onana as thoroughly as you did ddg because you had alot of good views at times.

 

[Lyng]

Yeah, he was ok. Distribution very good and mopped up well outside his box. Plus played the single best pass of any United player over 90 minutes. No chance with the goal.

Yeah thats what I saw as well. Felt weird to see people blaming him for yesterday, when he was one of the only once with a decent performance.

 

[Oranges038]

The difference between your critique of onana and ddg is mind boggling. It's almost as if you've campaigned so long for a new keeper you don't want to be embarrassed by him not working out.

Both things can be true. Ddg need moved on and onana isn't the answer.

Thinking we need to look for a new keeper in the summer, doesn't mean it wasn't correct to move on from ddg. I just wish you'd analyse onana as thoroughly as you did ddg because you had alot of good views at times.

I have been critical of him, have a look back at my posts. Maybe not as much as DDG, but then again he hasn't been serving up 5 years of shite while being the highest paid keeper in the world.

As sad as it sounds he really isn't the massive downgrade many believe him to be. A lot of fans think Onana is shite but still thought DDG was one of the best in the world over the last 5 years, when it blatanty isn't true at all.

Onana might not be the answer, he hasn't exactly been pulling up trees. Time will tell, I would imagine if at the end of the season he's not improved and ETH is gone, then whoever comes in won't have much patience with him.

 

[Bole Top]

Remember when the essay writers told the forum that a ball playing keeper will help the team score goals? Yeah, that's not exactly how things work.

it's incredible how many fans actually bellieved that.

except for those trully stacked all-star teams, clubs on average score about 2 goals per game during the season. Inter, with Onana there, scored 71 goal in previous season. Liverpool scored 75 and they have Allison. Barca scored 70. most attacks don't result in goals and those who do in vast majority of cases have nothing to do with how good your goalkeeper handles the ball.

this season, Inter is toying with everyone in Italy and already scored 37 goals. caf's conclusion? let's buy Sommer then, their new keeper

it's always better for your keeper to be good with the ball, but even in a perfect scenario it's just a nice bonus, the same way a good corner kick taker is. we have clueless coach, inexperienced kid in attack and shit, lazy wingers. the idea that goalkeeper is changing our attacking potential with those same players on the pitch is beyond crazy.

 

[Longshanks]

it's incredible how many fans actually bellieved that.

except for those trully stacked all-star teams, clubs on average score about 2 goals per game during the season. Inter, with Onana there, scored 71 goal in previous season. Liverpool scored 75 and they have Allison. Barca scored 70. most attacks don't result in goals and those who do in vast majority of cases have nothing to do with how good your goalkeeper handles the ball.

this season, Inter is toying with everyone in Italy and already scored 37 goals. caf's conclusion? let's buy Sommer then, their new keeper

it's always better for your keeper to be good with the ball, but even in a perfect scenario it's just a nice bonus, the same way a good corner kick taker is. we have clueless coach, inexperienced kid in attack and shit, lazy wingers. the idea that goalkeeper is changing our attacking potential with those same players on the pitch is beyond crazy.

If we used him to play through the press rather than use him to smash long balls, then yes he may be able to help us create chances. However the way ETH is choosing to use him is absolutely mind boggling. We saw for inter that he is very capable of baiting the press and play through the lines getting the ball into the attacking players feet. But for some reason we are choosing to use him to bait the press then smash long hopeful balls towards our forwards heads and chest, hoping they are going to win the physical duel and or the second ball.

Like using a scalpel as a sledgehammer trying to perform brain surgery.

 

[Red Indian Chief Torn Rubber]

You need you head examined if you seriously think he had a chance to stop that 1 on 1

 

[Redstain]

Personally don't rate him, whatever it is he clearly doesn't have it. He's like a more inconsistent Pickford who on form isn't of the required level.

 

[Annihilate Now!]

You need you head examined if you seriously think he had a chance to stop that 1 on 1

Again, absolutely nobody has said this.

It's very unlikely that Lindelof would be able to catch Mbappe if he was running through on goal, but I'd still expect him to try to give himself a better chance just in case.