Ange Postecoglou | New Spurs boss on 4 year contract

[GoonerBear]

Yep that's my bad. I thought they play twice in the second phase.

Yeah, they play each other 3 times before the split, then once after it as long as both clubs make top 6, which of course they always do.

It's not just a higher level. It's objectively a more difficult ask. Success for Celtic is to win the league and for that they need to be better than one team, Rangers. The other teams are too far behind in every sense to be any real threat. Celtic have finished in the top 2 in at least the last 20 years.

Success at Spurs is to finish at top 4 and for that they need to finish above several teams who currently have better squads and more money than Spurs. The emergence of Newcastle and the money they have at their disposal means there's a top 7 now in the UK, in which Spurs are financially at the bottom of. They need to finish above at least 3 teams from City, Arsenal, United, Newcastle, Liverpool & Chelsea. As well as all other EPL teams that might be having an unexpectedly good season (this year it was Brighton and Villa).

Yeah, i made this point to others. People were talking about how he'll be a success for Spurs, i was asking what is success for Spurs now? Competition is savage in the Premier League, yeah it's dominated by City currently but the other teams all have top coaches, big budgets, and more established teams.

Will be interesting to see how his style of play works down here, we seen to a lesser extent Bielsa's Leeds had a bit of a glass ceiling with his no compromise approach. Of course Spurs are better than what that Leeds team was, but in my opinion you still need to find a balance, especially against clubs that just have a better standard of player than you.

Will be fun to watch anyway.

 

[MadMike]

Yeah, i made this point to others. People were talking about how he'll be a success for Spurs, I was asking what is success for Spurs now? Competition is savage in the Premier League, yeah it's dominated by City currently but the other teams all have top coaches, big budgets, and more established teams.

That is the million dollar question but what I would say is that since Poch's first year in 14/15, when they finished 5th but Poch survived, Levy has sacked every manager who failed (or looked like failing) to make top 4.

It happened to Poch mid 19/20 season. Then to Mourniho in 20/21. Then Nuno Espirito Santo in 21/22. Then Conte in 22/23. Mason and Stellini were obvious caretakers so aren't counted. Any 6th or 7th placed finishes meant the managers got the sack. Whereas Arsenal persevered with Arteta with 8th placed finishes twice.

I would argue that finishing 7th should be minimum and that it should that it should definitely buy Ange another season, in my opinion. But I doubt Levy will see it as such.

Finishing top 6 and getting UEL football, especially if they lose Kane, will be some achievement. A significant progress. A 5th placed finish will be extremely good, but it yields no material difference to 6th anyway. Top 4 would be just shy of a footballing miracle.

 

[Vault Dweller]

His Celtic team was an attacking machine. Unlucky at times in Europe last season too, made loads of chances just didn't score enough. I hope he gets time at Spurs as I think he'd be great for them.

 

[GoonerBear]

His Celtic team was an attacking machine. Unlucky at times in Europe last season too, made loads of chances just didn't score enough. I hope he gets time at Spurs as I think he'd be great for them.

I mean, i'm not being bad but they finished bottom of their group that contained Leipzig and Shakhtar. Leipzig who Gio Van Bronkhurst Rangers beat over 2 legs on the way to the Europa League final only a few months before, and a Shakhtar team having to play their games in a neutral venue.

 

[Powderfinger]

That is the million dollar question but what I would say is that since Poch's first year in 14/15, when they finished 5th but Poch survived, Levy has sacked every manager who failed (or looked like failing) to make top 4.

It happened to Poch mid 19/20 season. Then to Mourniho in 20/21. Then Nuno Espirito Santo in 21/22. Then Conte in 22/23. Mason and Stellini were obvious caretakers so aren't counted. Any 6th or 7th placed finishes meant the managers got the sack. Whereas Arsenal persevered with Arteta with 8th placed finishes twice.

I would argue that finishing 7th should be minimum and that it should that it should definitely buy Ange another season, in my opinion. But I doubt Levy will see it as such.

Finishing top 6 and getting UEL football, especially if they lose Kane, will be some achievement. A significant progress. A 5th placed finish will be extremely good, but it yields no material difference to 6th anyway. Top 4 would be just shy of a footballing miracle.

5th is likely to get CL football with the new format coming into play.

But getting 5th will still be a huge lift for Spurs, even if Kane stays.

Mourinho and Conte have constructed a squad almost antithetical to the high-line, possession based football Postocoglou seems to prefer. It's a squad full of technically deficient central defenders who need to play a low block, wingbacks rather than fullbacks, functional central midfielders with low technical level, and forwards who don't combine well and lose the ball a lot.

 

[JezChan]

It's a gamble and it's uncertain at this point what the club's aims/ambitions are. I back Ange from the perspective of seeing the hard graft and journey he's taken to be in the position that he's in - to be the first Australian managing in the Prem is a significant achievement and speaks volumes to the sacrifice he's put in along the way to reach the pinnacle of his field (being away from home, working interculturally, adapting to new systems and methods, etc.)

As an Australian, it's a proud moment for Australian football, just like the milestone WC qualifications in 1974 and 2006. I hope this is yet another point on the journey of young Australians having their horizons in football expanded, knowing that it's possible to reach the upper echelons of European management.

I don't see Levy changing his spots and giving Ange a lot of time to adapt and adjust in order to get results, but I certainly wish Ange all the best being a trailblazer for Australian football.

 

[Vault Dweller]

I mean, i'm not being bad but they finished bottom of their group that contained Leipzig and Shakhtar. Leipzig who Gio Van Bronkhurst Rangers beat over 2 legs on the way to the Europa League final only a few months before, and a Shakhtar team having to play their games in a neutral venue.

Yup, and that's the ruthlessness in the CL. If you don't take your chances against good sides you get punished. I watched their games and against Shaktar, Real and Leipzig they made fantastic chances and were certainly in the games but not scoring cost them big time. They finished bottom so it looks a crap campaign but I don't think it actually was as bad as that.

 

[Sandikan]

Misread this as appointing Maya Angelou as manager for a second.
That'd be a stretch even for a club as dim as Totty.

 

[MayosNoun]

I have a feeling, if he’s given control over his transfers, he will be successful.

He seems to have a real eye for a player on a budget too so Levy will absolutely love that.

 

[Alex99]

I have a feeling, if he’s given control over his transfers, he will be successful.

He seems to have a real eye for a player on a budget too so Levy will absolutely love that.

I'm interested to see how is apparent eye for a player will translate to finding those of the quality Spurs aspire to have.

 

[MayosNoun]

I'm interested to see how is apparent eye for a player will translate to finding those of the quality Spurs aspire to have.

Me too. When he brought players to Celtic there were concerns those players wouldn’t be able to play in that environment. But they have all been very successful.

I’m sure he will be aware of the level required to step up and I think only Kyogo and McGregor are capable of doing that from Celtic.

 

[Robbie Boy]

Me too. When he brought players to Celtic there were concerns those players wouldn’t be able to play in that environment. But they have all been very successful.

I’m sure he will be aware of the level required to step up and I think only Kyogo and McGregor are capable of doing that from Celtic.

Jota?

 

[dannyrhinos89]

I’ll give him until Xmas, it will quickly dawn on him that the prem is nowhere near the spl.

 

[MayosNoun]

I’ll give him until Xmas, it will quickly dawn on him that the prem is nowhere near the spl.

He’s a successful manager everywhere he’s been.

I think he will be more than aware the EPL is a step up in terms of quality.

 

[Stack]

I’ll give him until Xmas, it will quickly dawn on him that the prem is nowhere near the spl.

The same things were said when he was appointed to Celtic with respect to the previous leagues he had coached at.
Every time he steps up a level he succeeds.

 

[roonster09]

I’ll give him until Xmas, it will quickly dawn on him that the prem is nowhere near the spl.

You think he doesn't know it yet? I mean the guy who dedicated almost his life to learn his craft in football management doesn't know that PL is clearly at higher level than SPL?

 

[glaspalast]

Good appointment by spuds

That squad needs a massive kick up the arse.

He will deliver that kick:

heads he will reap the benefits,

tails it will be a spectacular shitshow but the next guy will have a nice clean slate.

 

[galwayfa]

If he bought players for a few million that are good enough for Celtic, he will find better ones for 30m, think he will do well

 

[Robbie Boy]

You think he doesn't know it yet? I mean the guy who dedicated almost his life to learn his craft in football management doesn't know that PL is clearly at higher level than SPL?

 

[Red the Bear]

Will end up being another glorious dissaster that is the spurs management recruitment process.

 

[LASpurs]

Will end up being another glorious dissaster that is the spurs Daniel Levy management recruitment process.

Fixed.

 

[Red the Bear]

Fixed.

Him and Woodward do truly try(or tried in the case of the former) to leave biggest pile of turd in their wake.

Specialists in fecking things up.

 

[The holy trinity 68]

Who cares how good a manager was for Celtic or Rangers. They have no competition in their league other than each other, and in turn allows them to go easy in the league, so they should be able to focus on Europe. Yet every season (other than that one good Rangers run two years ago) they are garbage.

I wouldn't get excited about any manager just because they did good with Celtic or Rangers in the league. I could manage Celtic next season and probably win the league, the least I will do is finish 2nd.

 

[Gio]

A lot of people are missing the point. Management is about making the most of the resources you have at your disposal. Postecoglou has consistently over-achieved in recent years - less so actually in Scotland - but very much so in the decade prior to that in Asian football. He has regularly achieved more points than his wage bill should have delivered.

Nobody is saying that because he wins the league with Celtic he should get a top job in the Premier League. It's his style of football that makes him an intriguing candidate. For a club that struggles to create many chances and has got stuck in a transition-based style more suited to cups than the league, Postecoglou's attacking, overloading, ball-dominating style is a better solution for domestic football.

The journey there will be the challenge. It's a knee-jerk trigger-happy league with a club whose squad is a poor fit for his approach. He's under a chairman who has a range of off-the-park strengths but doesn't really get football strategy. Elsewhere in the league the quality of manager has improved massively in the last 7-8 years, so the easy win arising from being more progressive than your competitors has disappeared.

 

[Gio]

Who cares how good a manager was for Celtic or Rangers. They have no competition in their league other than each other, and in turn allows them to go easy in the league, so they should be able to focus on Europe. Yet every season (other than that one good Rangers run two years ago) they are garbage.

I wouldn't get excited about any manager just because they did good with Celtic or Rangers in the league. I could manage Celtic next season and probably win the league, the least I will do is finish 2nd.

Rangers' record in Europe has generally been pretty competitive in recent years. Racked up more coefficient points than Arsenal in 19/20, more than Milan, Napoli, Leicester and the same as Spurs in 20/21, Europa League finalists in 21/22. Bit of a shocker last year admittedly, but more of a blip than the trend.

 

[Krny]

Who cares how good a manager was for Celtic or Rangers. They have no competition in their league other than each other, and in turn allows them to go easy in the league, so they should be able to focus on Europe. Yet every season (other than that one good Rangers run two years ago) they are garbage.

I wouldn't get excited about any manager just because they did good with Celtic or Rangers in the league. I could manage Celtic next season and probably win the league, the least I will do is finish 2nd.

It just doesn't mean we can go easy In games at all. It means we have to win basically every one as the other title runner is going to be winning theirs.

 

[The holy trinity 68]

It just doesn't mean we can go easy In games at all. It means we have to win basically every one as the other title runner is going to be winning theirs.

But what have 99% of the managers of Celtic or Rangers done outside of them two clubs? My point is, I wouldn't get too excited about this manager just because of what he did at Celtic. Also, especially as he is already 57 and up until the age of 55 he had not even managed any decent clubs.

 

[Craig Ward]

It's so hard to judge a manager or a player coming from Celtic to the Premiership.

Rodgers is the best example in recent years, Ok-ish at Liverpool but ultimately not upto the standard required, couldnt stop winning if he tried at Celtic and left them for....Leicester. The standard is remarkably different.

And Spurs have this idea that they're a big club but they're in a right muddle.

Captain is leaving, Kane is looking likely to leave. Kulusevski is still on loan. They're fullbacks are terrible, they're a joke at CB and have no creative midfield players at all.

He's inheriting a shambolic squad whose better players years are behind them. It's a mental rebuild to go from Jose's death of football style to Conte's style to his. Based on his high tempo attacking football style - i dont think many current Spurs players suit it at all.

Nuno Santos had Wolves playing some good stuff and he made Spurs look worse somehow......Its a low risk/high gain appointment to some degree.

If he bombs, the step up is too big like Nuno, If he gets a tune out of them, Levy's a genius. Clever, but risky. But Spurs couldnt be any worse off than they are now. I dont think many big name managers would mildly entertain it

 

[Golden Nugget]

You think he doesn't know it yet? I mean the guy who dedicated almost his life to learn his craft in football management doesn't know that PL is clearly at higher level than SPL?

He doesn’t. According to most of here he shouldn’t even bother and he’s doomed to fail before he’s even started. May as well retire since he’s never managed a top club before

 

[LASpurs]

Him and Woodward do truly try(or tried in the case of the former) to leave biggest pile of turd in their wake.

Specialists in fecking things up.

Couldn’t have said it better myself, although I would say that under Woodward’s tenure at least Man Utd won stuff. Levy is an absolute specialist in failure. In fact, given the resources and money at Spurs I’d say he’s the biggest failure in the history of the Premier League. A specialist in underachievement.

 

[Krny]

One thing I found very odd and if I was a Spurs fan/or Ange I'd be very worried .
Spurs in their announcement statement used Anges well known work and use of the youth academy as a selling point to their fans.

Now unless the J league is actually Celtics youth academy, Spurs have just made that quality up , probably as an excuse to not spend money.
Ange just didn't use youth at all unless he was desperate. Spurs just blatantly lied to their fans

 

[MayosNoun]

One thing I found very odd and if I was a Spurs fan/or Ange I'd be very worried .
Spurs in their announcement statement used Anges well known work and use of the youth academy as a selling point to their fans.

Now unless the J league is actually Celtics youth academy, Spurs have just made that quality up , probably as an excuse to not spend money.
Ange just didn't use youth at all unless he was desperate. Spurs just blatantly lied to their fans

Good observation and something I hadn’t picked up on.

It’s actually the only real criticism of Ange in Scotland is the lack of youth progression.

He did try Welsh and Ralston however upgraded them as they were clearly not at the level required.

 

[dinostar77]

By all accounts a very good manager, who plays entertaining football and does some clever tactical stuf with overloads. Spurs should be an interesting watch next season.

 

[Scroto Baggins]

I'd sell all their CB's except Romero. Dier, Sanchez, Lenglet, Tanganga, Rodon, should all be sold really, maybe keep Dier as a squad player for those cup games and to make up the home grown numbers. They let in 63 goals last season, in a defensive styled Conte team with a back three, that is f*cking terrible. If you discount the teams that got relegated only Forest and Bournemouth let in more goals, both also in the relegation battle. Their backline has drifted from rubbish to average ever since Alderweireld and Vertonghen left, however many years ago that was.

Their midfield is pretty average without Bentancur as well. As soon as he got injured they started sliding down the table, Skip and Hojbjerg just cannot progress the ball from midfield with any sort of regularity. They are nothing special, just run of the mill DM's with not a lot to their games other than work rate and tough tackling.

 

[Dansk]

Never heard of this guy until he came to Spurs. None of my friends had ever heard his name before, either. Is this a bit of a blind gamble from Spurs or do I just not pay enough attention to managers outside of Europe? I realize he was at Celtic for a couple of seasons, but I still have literally never heard of the guy.

 

[balaks]

One thing I found very odd and if I was a Spurs fan/or Ange I'd be very worried .
Spurs in their announcement statement used Anges well known work and use of the youth academy as a selling point to their fans.

Now unless the J league is actually Celtics youth academy, Spurs have just made that quality up , probably as an excuse to not spend money.
Ange just didn't use youth at all unless he was desperate. Spurs just blatantly lied to their fans

Our current under 21 team just got relegated and we have not invested in it properly for years - the only player that is even close to being ready for 1st team squad is Alfie Devine. Our under 16's are good but several years away from any of them being ready. Levy is talking crap if he expects Ange to seriously use our academy with the state it is in now.

 

[Pronewbie]

Arsene Wenger vibes

 

[Baxquux]

Our current under 21 team just got relegated and we have not invested in it properly for years - the only player that is even close to being ready for 1st team squad is Alfie Devine. Our under 16's are good but several years away from any of them being ready. Levy is talking crap if he expects Ange to seriously use our academy with the state it is in now.

Dane Scarlett looked half-decent from the few Spurs European games I saw - could he do a Kane and quickly go 3 levels up with the right manager coming up and mentoring, or at least become a decent back-up option...?

 

[ROFLUTION]

It's a gamble and it's uncertain at this point what the club's aims/ambitions are. I back Ange from the perspective of seeing the hard graft and journey he's taken to be in the position that he's in - to be the first Australian managing in the Prem is a significant achievement and speaks volumes to the sacrifice he's put in along the way to reach the pinnacle of his field (being away from home, working interculturally, adapting to new systems and methods, etc.)

As an Australian, it's a proud moment for Australian football, just like the milestone WC qualifications in 1974 and 2006. I hope this is yet another point on the journey of young Australians having their horizons in football expanded, knowing that it's possible to reach the upper echelons of European management.

I don't see Levy changing his spots and giving Ange a lot of time to adapt and adjust in order to get results, but I certainly wish Ange all the best being a trailblazer for Australian football.

It's an interesting and different way of looking at it culturally as to us here in Denmark. I'm all for giving credit, but here in Denmark we have Thomas Frank who's on the same projection as Ange probably, and it's not like we see it as some proud achievement here in Denmark along with other merits of danish football. I think we're more like "good on him" but it's not like we cheer for him or are connected that much to him. And I don't say this to take anything away from your post, I just found it culturally interesting that this achievement is "big" and that this is something that is closely followed in Australia.

 

[ROFLUTION]

By all accounts a very good manager, who plays entertaining football and does some clever tactical stuf with overloads. Spurs should be an interesting watch next season.

Sounds like a lot of batterings to me